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Post by Cranky on Nov 19, 2023 20:40:52 GMT -5
The only team I can think of that didn't need a system simply because the lineup was so loaded was...the mid 70s Habs.
Maybe 3 people on this team can play on that team so...maybe, just maybe we need a change in the non-direction, no system "let them play" world of MSL.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 20, 2023 1:19:08 GMT -5
They are struggling to play MSLs non-system system and I'm sure he's frustrated that they dont get it... I sometimes think MSL thinks his players have the ability to be more adaptable... they spent their whole life playing systems and now they have to react instantaneously to a change.... sort of reminds me of Total Football on Ted Lasso Marty might be the latest equivalent of Wayne Gretzky, namely a great player who understands the game thoroughly, but can't pass it on because none of his players think at his level. Yet a schmuck like Don Cherry can get players to play above their pay level because he instills simple rules that players can follow. It explains how guys are in the completely wrong place often, with a deer in the headlights look to them. Also, from looking at Marty's career, he had one year of +35, one of +13, another of +12 and never exceeded +10 in any of his other 13 full seasons in the NHL. That suggests he wasn't exactly the most complete 200 foot player one would like. It's no surprise that defensive structure is not a signature of his team. Hughes really needs to have a details guy hired as an assistant. Clearly that isn't Burrows, or Letowski. |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 20, 2023 1:36:24 GMT -5
They are struggling to play MSLs non-system system and I'm sure he's frustrated that they dont get it... I sometimes think MSL thinks his players have the ability to be more adaptable... they spent their whole life playing systems and now they have to react instantaneously to a change.... sort of reminds me of Total Football on Ted Lasso Marty might be the latest equivalent of Wayne Gretzky, namely a great player who understands the game thoroughly, but can't pass it on because none of his players think at his level. Yet a schmuck like Don Cherry can get players to play above their pay level because he instills simple rules that players can follow. It explains how guys are in the completely wrong place often, with a deer in the headlights look to them. Also, from looking at Marty's career, he had one year of +35, one of +13, another of +12 and never exceeded +10 in any of his other 13 full seasons in the NHL. That suggests he wasn't exactly the most complete 200 foot player one would like. It's no surprise that defensive structure is not a signature of his team. Hughes really needs to have a details guy hired as an assistant. Clearly that isn't Burrows, or Letowski. Many teams have former head coaches as assistance behind the bench- in fact many are former Habs coaches. No, i'm not going there. Just saying many of these formwer head coaches know their hockey but there not very good on the presonal side or good leaders. Clearly marty is the latter. he's also a greart hockey philosopher - i oove listening to the guy. But he needs a structure coach, X + O guy. The fact we are not very good and we have more minor penalties than any other team (we were bad in that stat lasty year as well) tells you there is a problem with the coaching and structure. I'd say the HuGo honeymoon is coming to an end as we aren't seeing improvement in these areas. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 20, 2023 8:32:28 GMT -5
They are struggling to play MSLs non-system system and I'm sure he's frustrated that they dont get it... I sometimes think MSL thinks his players have the ability to be more adaptable... they spent their whole life playing systems and now they have to react instantaneously to a change.... sort of reminds me of Total Football on Ted Lasso Marty might be the latest equivalent of Wayne Gretzky, namely a great player who understands the game thoroughly, but can't pass it on because none of his players think at his level. Yet a schmuck like Don Cherry can get players to play above their pay level because he instills simple rules that players can follow. It explains how guys are in the completely wrong place often, with a deer in the headlights look to them. Also, from looking at Marty's career, he had one year of +35, one of +13, another of +12 and never exceeded +10 in any of his other 13 full seasons in the NHL. That suggests he wasn't exactly the most complete 200 foot player one would like. It's no surprise that defensive structure is not a signature of his team. Hughes really needs to have a details guy hired as an assistant. Clearly that isn't Burrows, or Letowski. I said it before, this team is missing Luke Richardson |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 20, 2023 10:35:05 GMT -5
Last year after 18 games we had 19 pts. This year we have 16 points
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Post by seventeen on Nov 20, 2023 18:14:02 GMT -5
Last year after 18 games we had 19 pts. This year we have 16 points The plan is on schedule. Seriously, (well, the silver lining is that the plan is on schedule) any real hopes went down the tubes with the Dach injury. And while Denis Savard is a black hole, Gustav Lindstrom is even worse, so a bottom 3 finish should be our goal, as distasteful as it feels. |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2023 2:59:51 GMT -5
Last year after 18 games we had 19 pts. This year we have 16 points The plan is on schedule. Seriously, (well, the silver lining is that the plan is on schedule) any real hopes went down the tubes with the Dach injury. And while Denis Savard is a black hole, Gustav Lindstrom is even worse, so a bottom 3 finish should be our goal, as distasteful as it feels. I don't disagree but we're starting to get into Oiler territory and they ain't even making the playoffs this year.  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 21, 2023 8:20:35 GMT -5
The plan is on schedule. Seriously, (well, the silver lining is that the plan is on schedule) any real hopes went down the tubes with the Dach injury. And while Denis Savard is a black hole, Gustav Lindstrom is even worse, so a bottom 3 finish should be our goal, as distasteful as it feels. I don't disagree but we're starting to get into Oiler territory and they ain't even making the playoffs this year. It's why we have to trade them Allen for their 1st not top 10 protected... retain salary if you have to |
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Post by PTH on Nov 21, 2023 9:25:38 GMT -5
I don't disagree but we're starting to get into Oiler territory and they ain't even making the playoffs this year. It's why we have to trade them Allen for their 1st not top 10 protected... retain salary if you have to That's just overly optimistic, even with retention Allen isn't worth that. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 21, 2023 9:41:25 GMT -5
It's why we have to trade them Allen for their 1st not top 10 protected... retain salary if you have to That's just overly optimistic, even with retention Allen isn't worth that. Lol... I was being facetious... I should have added a sarcasm emoticon... I'd be happy with Allen gone... a Monty/Primeau duo will suffice until Fowler is ready to take over. |
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Post by jkr on Nov 21, 2023 9:50:07 GMT -5
That's just overly optimistic, even with retention Allen isn't worth that. Lol... I was being facetious... I should have added a sarcasm emoticon... I'd be happy with Allen gone... a Monty/Primeau duo will suffice until Fowler is ready to take over. Fowler will turn 19 in a couple of days. It's probably at least 3 years until he's ready for the NHL. |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2023 10:30:06 GMT -5
Lol... I was being facetious... I should have added a sarcasm emoticon... I'd be happy with Allen gone... a Monty/Primeau duo will suffice until Fowler is ready to take over. Fowler will turn 19 in a couple of days. It's probably at least 3 years until he's easy for the NHL. Everything I'm reading says Oil want Campbell to be part of any deal. Thats' $4 million cap hit for the next 4 years  i would be happy to see Primeau get a decent chance. It seems he plays well until the onslaught takes over. I think if he knew he was going to be a regular he might settle in. |
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Post by Andrew on Nov 21, 2023 12:36:28 GMT -5
Fowler will turn 19 in a couple of days. It's probably at least 3 years until he's easy for the NHL. Everything I'm reading says Oil want Campbell to be part of any deal. Thats' $4 million cap hit for the next 4 years i would be happy to see Primeau get a decent chance. It seems he plays well until the onslaught takes over. I think if he knew he was going to be a regular he might settle in. I don't see a fit trade-wise with the Oilers. Allen makes the most sense, but he's by no means a star and shouldn't net much of a return. Complicating things is the cap, and the Oil needing to send back cap. If it's Campbell then the Oilers really have to sweeten the pot, and all of a sudden they're giving up premium assets to acquire a pretty average veteran goalie in Allen. Primeau isn't a fit given his age and experience and Edmonton's need to win now. The only goalie that makes sense is Montembeault who the Habs are supposedly trying to extend. I guess if an extension can't be negotiated and the offer is right from the Oil then it happens. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 21, 2023 15:03:06 GMT -5
Fowler will turn 19 in a couple of days. It's probably at least 3 years until he's easy for the NHL. Everything I'm reading says Oil want Campbell to be part of any deal. Thats' $4 million cap hit for the next 4 years i would be happy to see Primeau get a decent chance. It seems he plays well until the onslaught takes over. I think if he knew he was going to be a regular he might settle in. Oilers have zero CAP space, more or less, so if they take on any salary even if it's half of Allen's, some salary has to be going back and that appears to be Campbell. Ok, but if we have to take back Campbell AND help solve Holland's goaltending problem, they're going to have to pay. First round pick, unprotected. I might even go for their 2027 pick, just so it seems it hasn't cost them anything. 2027 is soooooo far away and by that time, who knows how much some of Holland's decisions will have cost the Oil. One of their two stars might be gone and they could be a lottery team. As Andrew says above, the guy they're after has to be Monty. I know what Jake Allen is and he's not even a part time #1. Monty, at least, can steal you some games and with a more mature team in front of him, he wouldn't face as many high danger shots. I suspect the extension is what's holding it up. Both teams need cost certainty over his salary before consummating any trade. If that leaves us with Allen and Primeau, fine. Primeau now has the opportunity to show us if he can be a goalie, or at least a capable backup. We'll lose a lot of games, of course, but that's ok too. With Dach out, we weren't going anywhere. |
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Post by folatre on Nov 22, 2023 20:30:23 GMT -5
Unless a goalie is elite or has serious playoff pedigree, goalies just do not have much trade value. Hence, what would Montembealt be worth on the market? Maybe a third if you are lucky. Thus, I would not bother trading Montembeault aside from a scenario where Hughes places his best contract offer on the table and the player/agent say no thanks. Everything has been quiet about an extension for him, so who knows really.
Kenny Holland is not dumping Campbell (three more seasons chewing on a $5 million AAV) for less than a first round pick, but unfortunately for the Oilers they need a money in-money out trade.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 23, 2023 1:57:41 GMT -5
Unless a goalie is elite or has serious playoff pedigree, goalies just do not have much trade value. Hence, what would Montembealt be worth on the market? Maybe a third if you are lucky. Thus, I would not bother trading Montembeault aside from a scenario where Hughes places his best contract offer on the table and the player/agent say no thanks. Everything has been quiet about an extension for him, so who knows really. Kenny Holland is not dumping Campbell (three more seasons chewing on a $5 million AAV) for less than a first round pick, but unfortunately for the Oilers they need a money in-money out trade. Don't disagree but Holland is getting desperate as his head is next on the block. Oilers lost agian and had to pull Skinner against the Canes. And Monty played great against the Ducks. If Oilers do trade for Monty it is only $1 million for their cap this year whether they sign him or not going forward. If Holland is all in to winning now which is what he said, he may be prepared to give up a 2nd round pick and a top prospect as neither of those fit into the Oilers plan of win now. Hopefully Hugo can take advantage of this situation. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2023 2:04:58 GMT -5
Depending on the cost, Monty is a good gamble for Edmonton. He shouldn’t be as costly as some other options but will still bring good value. With that team you don’t need a St Patrick just an average goalie and Montembeault can be that.
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