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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 8, 2023 16:07:52 GMT -5
Cooley's got 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 10 games... he is -10 over those 10 games
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Post by Cranky on Dec 8, 2023 17:03:33 GMT -5
I did not see the game but I did see ONE play were Guhle was stripped of his jock strap and wore it on his head.
I believe it was the second goal were Bayfield beat him on the outside and cut in on him. I just threw up when I saw that and had Komisarek nightmares all night. There was simply NO REASON for that unless his feet hit quicksand. TERRIBLE gap control that I don't expect to see from anyone particularly Guhle.
There is real work to be done still...LOTS of work to be done.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 8, 2023 18:35:42 GMT -5
A team's fortunes are so easily determined by luck. The Kings have had almost no injuries this year. The Bruins? Let me describe two of their recent goals. In one, they made a nice passing play against Florida and the puck came to one side of the crease, Bobrovski flat on his stomach swimming on the ice in front of the crease and Beecher has a wide open net to tap the puck in. But..being a 3-4 th liner, he misses. He shoots the puck between the net and Bobrovsky and it's going out the other side. But....a Panther defenseman, also on the ice having lost his balance, struggles to get in front to block any shots and he pushes the puck into the net. Pure luck. Lack of talent turns into a goal. Last night against Buffalo, Marchand scored when a shot from the right point misses the net. Devon Levi slides from his left to his right because according to all the laws of physics, the puck is coming out that side. But Boston defies the laws of Physics. The pick hits something that had to be sticking out from the boards or glass and instead comes out the same side it was shot from. Marchand is there with an empty net. Fortunately, Buffalo beat them anyway. I saw this stuff on a massively consistent basis last year for Boston. Bounces always going Boston's way. Eventually that changes, and it will for the Kings as well. Someone will get hurt, they'll have to move players up into positions they're not capable of handling and they'll start losing. the Forum ghosts have turned against us and have moved to other teams  Luck? The harder you work the luckier you get. Luck is first overall pick when Bedard is available. Luck is four years of exceptional injuries to key players. Luck is hitting a thin post instead of a gaping net. Luck is getting into the playoffs in a Covid year. Luck is not getting Covid. Luck is beating a better team on their off night. Beating out 31 teams is harder than beating out 5 teams. Repeating is harder when there’s a cap forcing out your talent. Management is doing a decent job but don’t believe the hype about wonderful draft picks or great prospects. It is what it is. Your record is the score. |
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Post by folatre on Dec 8, 2023 18:55:18 GMT -5
Well, aside from the boy's initial five minutes, some hockey or there from the Suzuki line, Montembeault saving his team from a seven or eight goal beatdown, and Pezzetta being pissed I cannot salvage anything at all from a performance like that one.
Injuries are real. No one denies it. But looking at how the Kings are built compared to where the Habs (even with Dach and Newhook) are at this stage, I cannot say Montreal is even close. Though, man, without a healthy roster, the gulf between the Kings and Habs is enormous (what was it, 8-0 aggregate).
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Post by Skilly on Dec 8, 2023 20:42:20 GMT -5
Cooley's got 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 10 games... he is -10 over those 10 games I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, it's almost as if people think other prospects can't get better but Slaf can. So I'll play the game In Slaf's first 25 games, he was 10 points , and -1 In Cooley's first 25 games, he was 14 points, and -10 But wait, there's more! In Slaf's next 14 games, he was 0 points and -13 Let's see what Cooley does in his next 14 And this year In 26 games, Slaf has 7 points, and is -5 So statistically, Slaf is currently worse than last year, but "looks better", and in both years, his first 25 games haven't been as good as Cooleys rookie 25 games Slaf, may very well become the best player selected in that draft, but if we are giving Slaf every excuse in the book, then we can't downplay Cooley this year |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 8, 2023 23:17:20 GMT -5
Cooley's got 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 10 games... he is -10 over those 10 games I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, it's almost as if people think other prospects can't get better but Slaf can. So I'll play the game In Slaf's first 25 games, he was 10 points , and -1 In Cooley's first 25 games, he was 14 points, and -10 But wait, there's more! In Slaf's next 14 games, he was 0 points and -13 Let's see what Cooley does in his next 14 And this year In 26 games, Slaf has 7 points, and is -5 So statistically, Slaf is currently worse than last year, but "looks better", and in both years, his first 25 games haven't been as good as Cooleys rookie 25 games Slaf, may very well become the best player selected in that draft, but if we are giving Slaf every excuse in the book, then we can't downplay Cooley this year That's not what I'm saying, players develop at their own pace given their own circumstances, Slaf is looking better since he has been put with quality linemates, I don't follow the coyotes but who is to say that cooley got top pp minutes and was put in a position to succeed in the first 10 games, his +/- was a concern so they asked him to focus on that... I don't know but the comparison game is a no win because no 2 players are in the same situation... if Dach didn't get injured who is to say that slaf wouldn't have 20 points in 20 games on a line with Dach? |
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 9, 2023 1:38:16 GMT -5
Couldn't care less about points and compaing stats with developing youth. Far too many intangibles including who their linemates are, are they getting prime minutes including PP, are they on a decent team, do they have a decent coach. What I do care about is watching and seeing how a player is performing. And Slafs right now is as good as I've seen him and he is dominating physically which is impressive for a 19 year old. Last time i saw this was Eric Lindros. And that's because it ain't just physical, it's soft hands, and heads up plays with nice passing, and no quit. By the way, why do scouts go to games if all they have to do is look at the player's stats?  |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 9, 2023 1:41:02 GMT -5
Couldn't care less about points and compaing stats with developing youth. Far too many intangibles including who their linemates are, are they getting prime minutes including PP, are they on a decent team, do they have a decent coach. What I do care about is watching and seeing how a player is performing. And Slafs right now is as good as I've seen him and he is dominating physically which is impressive for a 19 year old. Last time i saw this was Eric Lindros. And that's because it ain't just physical, it's soft hands, and heads up plays with nice passing, and no quit. By the way, why do scouts go to games if all they have to do is look at the player's stats? I'll guarantee you one thing, no one drafts a 1OA and doesn't expect stats, and good ones at that. |
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 9, 2023 2:12:17 GMT -5
Couldn't care less about points and compaing stats with developing youth. Far too many intangibles including who their linemates are, are they getting prime minutes including PP, are they on a decent team, do they have a decent coach. What I do care about is watching and seeing how a player is performing. And Slafs right now is as good as I've seen him and he is dominating physically which is impressive for a 19 year old. Last time i saw this was Eric Lindros. And that's because it ain't just physical, it's soft hands, and heads up plays with nice passing, and no quit. By the way, why do scouts go to games if all they have to do is look at the player's stats? I'll guarantee you one thing, no one drafts a 1OA and doesn't expect stats, and good ones at that. if they expect good stats when they're only 19 and they are big power forwards then they are fools: Joe Thorton, John Leclair, Brendan Shanahan, Shane Doan, Mark Stone. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 3:00:58 GMT -5
Cooley has 14 points in 24 games & he is only 19. The age excuse just doesn't hold water IMO. Cooley also has abysmal defensive stats. Slaf does not. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 3:07:03 GMT -5
Couldn't care less about points and compaing stats with developing youth. Far too many intangibles including who their linemates are, are they getting prime minutes including PP, are they on a decent team, do they have a decent coach. What I do care about is watching and seeing how a player is performing. And Slafs right now is as good as I've seen him and he is dominating physically which is impressive for a 19 year old. Last time i saw this was Eric Lindros. And that's because it ain't just physical, it's soft hands, and heads up plays with nice passing, and no quit. By the way, why do scouts go to games if all they have to do is look at the player's stats? Bang on Habsorbed. The points will come because everything a player is supposed to do to get points is happening. As I said elsewhere, if his teammates had just scored a few, he'd have more points. Marc Dumont and Lori Bennett were talking about this and mentioned that the top line is still getting used to playing together. They intimated that a few times, Caufield and Suzuki both acted surprised that the puck arrived when it did. They didn't think Slaf could get it to them, and he did. Because of that, they didn't get off the shots they normally would. Tanner Pearson just isn't a good enough scorer, but man, what a feed from Slaf. Roof the damn thing, Tanner. |
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Post by jkr on Dec 9, 2023 8:30:50 GMT -5
Cooley has 14 points in 24 games & he is only 19. The age excuse just doesn't hold water IMO. Cooley also has abysmal defensive stats. Slaf does not. The only defensive stat I have access to is plus minus. Slafkovsky is -5, Cooley is - 10. Where do you draw the line at abysmal? |
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 9, 2023 12:22:06 GMT -5
Cooley also has abysmal defensive stats. Slaf does not. The only defensive stat I have access to is plus minus. Slafkovsky is -5, Cooley is - 10. Where do you draw the line at abysmal? Cooley is tied for the worst plus minus on his team with -10 and that is way worse than many of the Yotes forwards who have positive plus minus of +5 or more. That's a differential of over +15 or more. Conversley, many of the Habs have worse plus minus than Slafs including Suze, Gally, Josh, Monahan. And only one forward, Evans, is a plus. So Slafs plus minus is average for his team. Like I said, it's a fools game to compare these sort of stats straight up without looking at the full picture. But those that still put stock in these stats, you'll be really upset to hear that Shane Wright is way ahead of Cooley and Slafs with a +2. He's just killing it for the Coachella Firebirds. Oh, what could have been!  |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 9, 2023 13:50:53 GMT -5
I'll guarantee you one thing, no one drafts a 1OA and doesn't expect stats, and good ones at that. if they expect good stats when they're only 19 and they are big power forwards then they are fools: Joe Thorton, John Leclair, Brendan Shanahan, Shane Doan, Mark Stone. Thought you couldn’t care less about comparing? 🤣 |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 9, 2023 13:58:03 GMT -5
The only defensive stat I have access to is plus minus. Slafkovsky is -5, Cooley is - 10. Where do you draw the line at abysmal? Cooley is tied for the worst plus minus on his team with -10 and that is way worse than many of the Yotes forwards who have positive plus minus of +5 or more. That's a differential of over +15 or more. Conversley, many of the Habs have worse plus minus than Slafs including Suze, Gally, Josh, Monahan. And only one forward, Evans, is a plus. So Slafs plus minus is average for his team. Like I said, it's a fools game to compare these sort of stats straight up without looking at the full picture. But those that still put stock in these stats, you'll be really upset to hear that Shane Wright is way ahead of Cooley and Slafs with a +2. He's just killing it for the Coachella Firebirds. Oh, what could have been! Oh vey Ok. This is Cooley’s rookie season Quick guess as to which forward had the second worse plus minus among forwards on the Habs last year in his rookie season?? This is what I mean about Hab fans with different standards Slaf is treated like he can improve, other prospects aren’t Slaf had poor defensive stats AND poor offensive stats last year This year, Cooley is at a pace to out perform Slaf’s rookie year and sophomore year COMBINED. I’m happy we have Slaf. But c’mon. We all were expecting more, but he is getting every excuse in the book that others weren’t and aren’t |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 14:29:46 GMT -5
I did not see the game but I did see ONE play were Guhle was stripped of his jock strap and wore it on his head. I believe it was the second goal were Bayfield beat him on the outside and cut in on him. I just threw up when I saw that and had Komisarek nightmares all night. There was simply NO REASON for that unless his feet hit quicksand. TERRIBLE gap control that I don't expect to see from anyone particularly Guhle. There is real work to be done still...LOTS of work to be done. In comparing Guhle from this year to last, I'm not seeing the speed he had last year, which again leads me to believe he's not 100% healthy, but they have NO ONE to replace him, so he's struggling through. You rarely saw anyone beat him to the outside last year. He just accelerated and took their angle away. Not happening this year and it's not because he's forgotten how. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 14:32:10 GMT -5
Cooley also has abysmal defensive stats. Slaf does not. The only defensive stat I have access to is plus minus. Slafkovsky is -5, Cooley is - 10. Where do you draw the line at abysmal? I don't have stats either. I'm repeating what some advanced stats guys I respect are saying. I'm not sure if Cooley is playing centre or wing either. If centre, then he's going to have a tough time. I don't think so though. I think he's on a line with Clayton Keller. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 14:33:33 GMT -5
Shane Wright is way ahead of Cooley and Slafs with a +2. He's just killing it for the Coachella Firebirds. Oh, what could have been!   |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 14:55:13 GMT -5
I’m happy we have Slaf. But c’mon. We all were expecting more, but he is getting every excuse in the book that others weren’t and aren’t I suspect you're playing devil's advocate, Skilly, and the point totals are an easy measurement to use. Forget the ages, because they're basically the same. Consider, however, other facts in comparing them. Cooley did not have to learn to deal with a new language, or a different size rink. He did not have an injury last year, or deal with a huge jump from USHL to NHL. Jack Hughes had to make that jump and look at how his first year went despite the amazing talent level. Cooley didn't have to deal with a new country. You can say these are all excuses, or you can factor in that they really were impediments to Slaf's development, or simply factors that fans should have taken into consideration and not expected so damn much so early, whether or not he was a first overall pick. In that draft there were 5 or 6 guys who could have been first overall. But Slaf is the one slaffed with that label (sorry, couldn't resist). Can't wait for the headline "Boston gets Slaffed in the face" I'm now excited about him. I wasn't before and was starting to worry we had made a mighty swing again and struck out. These recent weeks (how many good games has he had in a row, now...6 -7-8?) he's looked really good. I am not easily impressed, but that board battle he won against Drew Doughty yesterday was huge for me. Doughty is really damn good at those. He's a lot stronger than he looks and he's got great hands....and Slaf beat him. Doughty wins 9 out of 10 of those battles. I have a strong feeling that wouldn't be the score against Slaf because he's been doing it to everyone. I'm using this as an example not only because it was a real challenge to Slaf that he passed, but because it's a key part of breaking down a defense. There are different ways of doing that, but the simplest is you have one player who beats his check and creates an odd man advantage. Right after he beat Doughty, I believe Slaf passed it into the slot for someone, who didn't score. On many of the high danger opportunities he has created, that has been the MO. Win a board battle, find the open man. I think that's only the beginning. He gave us a small taste of another skill when (I think this was the previous game to LA's) he when end to end and drew a penalty (I think he was surprised he got through and didn't finish as well as he might have). As that confidence grows and he's willing to stick handle more, that will be another method of his for breaking down defenses. Yeah, this kid is going to be good and I doubt very much that in 3 years we'll be saying "I wish we had drafted XYZ instead". |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 15:10:30 GMT -5
A team's fortunes are so easily determined by luck. The Kings have had almost no injuries this year. There's definitely an element of luck when it comes to injuries and there's also overall durability of players on a roster. I feel like the Habs have an above average number of players that would be considered injury-prone, whereas a player like Kopitar is in his 17th season and has missed a grand total of 21 games in his career. Nice thinking Andrew. Someone should do a PhD thesis on that. I thought of big puck protectors like Kopitar, Jagr, Getzlaff, Perry, etc. I don't think any of them missed a lot of games and I wonder if there's a correlation between the two. Because they're big, not many guys try to hit them so they don't take the pounding smaller or normal size players do. Why bother right? Can't get the puck off them that way and you're likely to end up on your butt instead. So do injuries and size have a correlation? Marty wasn't injured a lot and he is short, but he has tree trunk legs. There's always outliers, and exceptions, like having the puck hit your fingers or wrist or suffering high ankle sprains or torn knee ligaments in freak circumstances, but I don't doubt that the fact the Habs have not been bigger, or at least have a majority of their team in the Large category, has contributed to injuries. LA is a big team, generally, right? It's worth noting that HuGo are placing a premium on size. Then again Guhle's not small, Slaf's not small, David Savard's not small, Kirby Dach's not small. Bad luck. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 9, 2023 17:50:02 GMT -5
I’m happy we have Slaf. But c’mon. We all were expecting more, but he is getting every excuse in the book that others weren’t and aren’t I suspect you're playing devil's advocate, Skilly, and the point totals are an easy measurement to use. Forget the ages, because they're basically the same. Consider, however, other facts in comparing them. Cooley did not have to learn to deal with a new language, or a different size rink. He did not have an injury last year, or deal with a huge jump from USHL to NHL. Jack Hughes had to make that jump and look at how his first year went despite the amazing talent level. Cooley didn't have to deal with a new country. You can say these are all excuses, or you can factor in that they really were impediments to Slaf's development, or simply factors that fans should have taken into consideration and not expected so damn much so early, whether or not he was a first overall pick. In that draft there were 5 or 6 guys who could have been first overall. But Slaf is the one slaffed with that label (sorry, couldn't resist). Can't wait for the headline "Boston gets Slaffed in the face" I'm now excited about him. I wasn't before and was starting to worry we had made a mighty swing again and struck out. These recent weeks (how many good games has he had in a row, now...6 -7-8?) he's looked really good. I am not easily impressed, but that board battle he won against Drew Doughty yesterday was huge for me. Doughty is really damn good at those. He's a lot stronger than he looks and he's got great hands....and Slaf beat him. Doughty wins 9 out of 10 of those battles. I have a strong feeling that wouldn't be the score against Slaf because he's been doing it to everyone. I'm using this as an example not only because it was a real challenge to Slaf that he passed, but because it's a key part of breaking down a defense. There are different ways of doing that, but the simplest is you have one player who beats his check and creates an odd man advantage. Right after he beat Doughty, I believe Slaf passed it into the slot for someone, who didn't score. On many of the high danger opportunities he has created, that has been the MO. Win a board battle, find the open man. I think that's only the beginning. He gave us a small taste of another skill when (I think this was the previous game to LA's) he when end to end and drew a penalty (I think he was surprised he got through and didn't finish as well as he might have). As that confidence grows and he's willing to stick handle more, that will be another method of his for breaking down defenses. Yeah, this kid is going to be good and I doubt very much that in 3 years we'll be saying "I wish we had drafted XYZ instead". Yeah, it is a devil’s advocate approach. Simply based on history I’m only going to respond to one point in your post. Because I believe it’s another excuse that’s way over blown Slafkovsky had to deal with a different country. So did we draft Slafkovsky based on his play in Slovakia? No. Juraj Slafkovsky left Slovakia to play in Czechia at age 14. Then at age 15 he left Czechia and moved to Finland. So he has dealt with new countries at younger ages. And he is mature enough to handle it at 18-19 , cause he certainly did it at 14 and 15. And where did he move at 18?? To the most Europeanesque city in North America. As for the language. Unless Slaf spoke Czech and Finnish and that’s why he went to those countries , that’s a non issue too. And hey, if he learnt those languages, that another plus to it being a non-factor, because French should come quickly and easy to him |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 9, 2023 18:00:54 GMT -5
Yeah, it is a devil’s advocate approach. Simply based on history I’m only going to respond to one point in your post. Because I believe it’s another excuse that’s way over blown Slafkovsky had to deal with a different country. So did we draft Slafkovsky based on his play in Slovakia? No. Juraj Slafkovsky left Slovakia to play in Czechia at age 14. Then at age 15 he left Czechia and moved to Finland. So he has dealt with new countries at younger ages. And he is mature enough to handle it at 18-19 , cause he certainly did it at 14 and 15. And where did he move at 18?? To the most Europeanesque city in North America. As for the language. Unless Slaf spoke Czech and Finnish and that’s why he went to those countries , that’s a non issue too. And hey, if he learnt those languages, that another plus to it being a non-factor, because French should come quickly and easy to him That change of country is probably the least important issue for him to deal with. It seemed he already had a reasonable grasp of English, so as long as he can understand his coaches and teammates on the ice, that's not a difficult change either. The ice surface would be a problem because it shrinks the time and space available. Big adaptation there, which Cooley did not have to tackle. None of it matters really, because right now, I wonder who is the better player. Cooley has more points, but is he driving play better, or are his teammates finishing better? He has 3 goals and Juraj 2. The main difference is in assists, 5 vs 11. I really like how Slaf is playing, right now, and am looking forward to more improvement. |
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Post by Andrew on Dec 12, 2023 11:41:35 GMT -5
There's definitely an element of luck when it comes to injuries and there's also overall durability of players on a roster. I feel like the Habs have an above average number of players that would be considered injury-prone, whereas a player like Kopitar is in his 17th season and has missed a grand total of 21 games in his career. Nice thinking Andrew. Someone should do a PhD thesis on that. I thought of big puck protectors like Kopitar, Jagr, Getzlaff, Perry, etc. I don't think any of them missed a lot of games and I wonder if there's a correlation between the two. Because they're big, not many guys try to hit them so they don't take the pounding smaller or normal size players do. Why bother right? Can't get the puck off them that way and you're likely to end up on your butt instead. So do injuries and size have a correlation? Marty wasn't injured a lot and he is short, but he has tree trunk legs. There's always outliers, and exceptions, like having the puck hit your fingers or wrist or suffering high ankle sprains or torn knee ligaments in freak circumstances, but I don't doubt that the fact the Habs have not been bigger, or at least have a majority of their team in the Large category, has contributed to injuries. LA is a big team, generally, right? It's worth noting that HuGo are placing a premium on size. Then again Guhle's not small, Slaf's not small, David Savard's not small, Kirby Dach's not small. Bad luck. I think you hit the nail on the head with the observation of Marty and his tree trunk legs. The common denominator is probably the guys with exceptional lower body / core strength when it comes to injury avoidance. They're really hard to knock off balance and less susceptible to going down awkwardly and twisting a knee, or crashing into the boards at top speed. Guys like Pacioretty or Dach are tall, but also top-heavy and don't have that strong center of gravity. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 12, 2023 18:07:55 GMT -5
More good analysis.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 13, 2023 9:00:30 GMT -5
Anderson is another example of a top heavy guy, In 2018-2019 is the only season Anderson played the full 82 games.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 13, 2023 14:20:30 GMT -5
Anderson is another example of a top heavy guy, In 2018-2019 is the only season Anderson played the full 82 games. I hope Habs are feeding Slaf lots of fertilizer to grow those tree trunk thighs. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 13, 2023 20:27:19 GMT -5
By the way, why do scouts go to games if all they have to do is look at the player's stats? Have a high school buddy who was a junior scout for the Bruins here in Ontario ... he told me exactly what he was looking for and stats never came into the conversation ... he identified two players he was in town to watch, and both were with the Kingston Frontenacs ... some of the things he mentioned ... are the players he's watching spending much time in the gym ... he told me he knows which kids do, and which lied about it ... one of those who lied was Tyler Seguin ... he also mentioned hockey sense, as well ... what he looked for, there, was if the player tended to lose where he was on the ice, or does he see the ice well ... if the kid gets decked, does he 'respond' in some way or does he even care ... he shared a few other things, but I honestly can't remember what they were ... he singled out a Frontenac who'd make "an excellent 3rd-line centre for the Bruins," but I was under a gag order back then (the cost of chatting with an NHL junior scout) ... he even dropped me an email a few months before the 2012 Draft saying that Boston was targeting Malcolm Subban (and, they got him) ... my buddy was eventually fired, though and he described it to me ... the 2013 Draft was his last as a Bruins scout ... he was trying to give Boston GM, Peter Chiarelli, advise on who to draft who to draft, but Chiarelli never said a word to him ... the Bruins table had already identified the players they wanted and, they didn't consult my buddy at all ... he was let go shortly after that, and as soon as he was gone, they hired Keith Gretzky and his crew ... to this day, he relishes his 2011 Stanley Cup ring, but he despises the Bruins ... he had a lot more to say, too ... Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 13, 2023 21:21:31 GMT -5
Good thing someone on the Bruins looked at Seguin’s stats and drafted him 2nd overall 🤣
Can you imagine not drafting a 106pt player in 63 games because he didn’t spend enough time in the gym?? Sounds like something Bobrov would do 😝
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Post by Skilly on Dec 13, 2023 22:18:49 GMT -5
I'll guarantee you one thing, no one drafts a 1OA and doesn't expect stats, and good ones at that. if they expect good stats when they're only 19 and they are big power forwards then they are fools: Joe Thorton, John Leclair, Brendan Shanahan, Shane Doan, Mark Stone. Comparables are tough. I’m not sure these comparables are really that good. While they appear to start “slow” there is more to it than that Joe Thornton - his stats exploded from game 83 onwards. Slafkovsky will reach game 83 at game 44 this year . In his first 68 games, Thornton had 12 points Mark Stone looks like he started slow. But in his first 68 games he had 34 points. Twice as many as Slaf Brendan Shanahan in his first 68 games had 26 points. And then he scored 50 points in his next 63, and basically scored near a point a game the rest of his career Then you included Leclair and Doan, which are real curious cases. Leclair was 21 as a rookie. In his first 68 games, Leclair had 26 points. Developed into nothing more than a 40pt second liner with Montreal and didn’t start producing until he was traded at age 25. If Slaf takes that long, he will be going into UFA, and likely find himself, like Leclair, on another team Shane Doan in his first 68 games got 16 points. But took 5 seasons to score more than 22 points. Not the best out look. Much like the Leclair example, if Slaf doesn’t score more than 22 points 4 seasons in a row, I doubt he is a Hab in year 5. Slafkovsky currently has played his 68th game, and has 17 career points. For the comparable to be closer to the first three names, he has to break out at 0.8 points per game for the rest of his career in the next 10-15 games ********** The point of this post. Is how long do you give Slaf to start producing? One year like Thornton, Shanahan and Stone? Or 4-5 years like Leclair and Doan? |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 14, 2023 8:27:21 GMT -5
if they expect good stats when they're only 19 and they are big power forwards then they are fools: Joe Thorton, John Leclair, Brendan Shanahan, Shane Doan, Mark Stone. Comparables are tough. I’m not sure these comparables are really that good. While they appear to start “slow” there is more to it than that Joe Thornton - his stats exploded from game 83 onwards. Slafkovsky will reach game 83 at game 44 this year . In his first 68 games, Thornton had 12 points Mark Stone looks like he started slow. But in his first 68 games he had 34 points. Twice as many as Slaf Brendan Shanahan in his first 68 games had 26 points. And then he scored 50 points in his next 63, and basically scored near a point a game the rest of his career Then you included Leclair and Doan, which are real curious cases. Leclair was 21 as a rookie. In his first 68 games, Leclair had 26 points. Developed into nothing more than a 40pt second liner with Montreal and didn’t start producing until he was traded at age 25. If Slaf takes that long, he will be going into UFA, and likely find himself, like Leclair, on another team Shane Doan in his first 68 games got 16 points. But took 5 seasons to score more than 22 points. Not the best out look. Much like the Leclair example, if Slaf doesn’t score more than 22 points 4 seasons in a row, I doubt he is a Hab in year 5. Slafkovsky currently has played his 68th game, and has 17 career points. For the comparable to be closer to the first three names, he has to break out at 0.8 points per game for the rest of his career in the next 10-15 games ********** The point of this post. Is how long do you give Slaf to start producing? One year like Thornton, Shanahan and Stone? Or 4-5 years like Leclair and Doan? It depends on his utilization... if he's with scrubs then 4-5 years... look at KK... If he is with high end talent, then much sooner... the problem for Slaf is we can all agree Suze has struggled and Cole has been dreadful, if Suze and Cole were playing now like they did last year to start the season we wouldn't be worrying about Slaf, he's doing all the right things, the other 2 are the problem on that line. |
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