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Post by habsorbed on Dec 17, 2023 13:34:14 GMT -5
Nice to get the win especially to avoid giving up a 4-0 lead - that would have been devastating. But let's recognize NYI were bad/tired. You know the other team is bad when everyone of our lines looks good. Both the 2nd and 3rd lines looked great.
And Suze's line dominated just about every shift. As I've said they will be in top 5 best lines in hockey in a few years. It is not unusual to see a top line with a great centre and winger but can't find the elite 2nd winger - see Oil, Bruins, TO, etc. But Slafs is a monster with his size, speed and reach. He is usually causing turnovers in the O zone 4 or 5 times a game. And he's making some great passes and has good stick work. Stil gets a little jitterywith the puck around the net but that will come.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 17, 2023 13:40:02 GMT -5
And like others, i've given up on barron. He clearly lacks awareness, in particular where the opposition is on the ice. Seems every game he makes an dumb error becuase he is not aware that he has an opponent nearby. The rest of his game is not good enough to compensate for these gaffs as the gaffs almost always end up in a prime scoring chance for the opponent. This is something scouts should have seen long ago before acquiring him.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 17, 2023 13:52:30 GMT -5
This is going to make it feel even worse when he's traded. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 17, 2023 13:53:47 GMT -5
Nice to get the win especially to avoid giving up a 4-0 lead - that would have been devastating. But let's recognize NYI were bad/tired. You know the other team is bad when everyone of our lines looks good. Both the 2nd and 3rd lines looked great. And Suze's line dominated just about every shift. As I've said they will be in top 5 best lines in hockey in a few years. It is not unusual to see a top line with a great centre and winger but can't find the elite 2nd winger - see Oil, Bruins, TO, etc. But Slafs is a monster with his size, speed and reach. He is usually causing turnovers in the O zone 4 or 5 times a game. And he's making some great passes and has good stick work. Stil gets a little jitterywith the puck around the net but that will come. More recently, the Bergeron - Marchand - Pastrnak line was pretty good. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 17, 2023 13:58:11 GMT -5
Nice to get the win especially to avoid giving up a 4-0 lead - that would have been devastating. But let's recognize NYI were bad/tired. You know the other team is bad when everyone of our lines looks good. Both the 2nd and 3rd lines looked great. And Suze's line dominated just about every shift. As I've said they will be in top 5 best lines in hockey in a few years. It is not unusual to see a top line with a great centre and winger but can't find the elite 2nd winger - see Oil, Bruins, TO, etc. But Slafs is a monster with his size, speed and reach. He is usually causing turnovers in the O zone 4 or 5 times a game. And he's making some great passes and has good stick work. Stil gets a little jitterywith the puck around the net but that will come. What it points out is to never give the other team a break. Habs were cruising until Slaf lost the puck in the Isles zone on that PP. Then a couple of other players got lazy (hey, we're on a PP and the other guys are going to ice it and then we'll attack again. No need to defend hard) and allowed that shortie. Matheson wasn't the only guy, but he could have worked harder to get alongside the Islander on that initial rush. Anyway, as usual there are 3 errors on every faux pas. If the Isles don't score there, they go away quietly into the good night. Heck, they were the team on the B2B, so no logical reason for them to have the energy to outwork the Habs in the 3rd. It was all emotion and adrenaline. The mantra should be "step on their necks". |
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Post by Andrew on Dec 17, 2023 14:04:06 GMT -5
I think that CC will come around. His shots / game are at a career high 3.8 with his shooting percentage at a career low 7% (compared with 16.5% last season).
I do agree that he may not have full strength and mobility in his shoulder following surgery, and that perhaps the full recovery timeline is longer than the cleared to play timeline for that surgery. Who knows though, I'm no doctor.
One play that stood out to me, in the first period, was this one. He has a really good look with the puck on his forehand and opts instead to go for a wraparound. When have we ever seen him score on a wraparound? Last year's Cole would have picked a corner and probably buried it in that spot.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 17, 2023 15:13:36 GMT -5
Nice to get the win especially to avoid giving up a 4-0 lead - that would have been devastating. But let's recognize NYI were bad/tired. You know the other team is bad when everyone of our lines looks good. Both the 2nd and 3rd lines looked great. And Suze's line dominated just about every shift. As I've said they will be in top 5 best lines in hockey in a few years. It is not unusual to see a top line with a great centre and winger but can't find the elite 2nd winger - see Oil, Bruins, TO, etc. But Slafs is a monster with his size, speed and reach. He is usually causing turnovers in the O zone 4 or 5 times a game. And he's making some great passes and has good stick work. Stil gets a little jitterywith the puck around the net but that will come. More recently, the Bergeron - Marchand - Pastrnak line was pretty good. Yup, but fortunately for us Bergeron was on his last legs (58 points). Our top 3 were all first round picks within 5 years of one another so they will all be in their prime at the same time. If they can all become the elite players they were drafted to become, and appear to be, then we have hit the jackpot. Yes, i am optimistic and loving what i'm seeing. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 17, 2023 15:30:23 GMT -5
Did someone bring in a new hopium barrel?
It was nice to see Anderson score a few and we did dominate them but we also lost the hinges on the door in the 3rd.
I keep repeating my repeating...we need better defensive system. I don't care if it slows down our offense as long as it stops the opposition.
Remember when Price was stopping everything? 90% of it was the team keeping the opposition on the wall and giving them low percentage shots.
With a 4-0 lead, this was the perfect game to run a hard core shut down game...that we don't have.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2023 15:40:32 GMT -5
Nice to get the win especially to avoid giving up a 4-0 lead - that would have been devastating. But let's recognize NYI were bad/tired. You know the other team is bad when everyone of our lines looks good. Both the 2nd and 3rd lines looked great. And Suze's line dominated just about every shift. As I've said they will be in top 5 best lines in hockey in a few years. It is not unusual to see a top line with a great centre and winger but can't find the elite 2nd winger - see Oil, Bruins, TO, etc. But Slafs is a monster with his size, speed and reach. He is usually causing turnovers in the O zone 4 or 5 times a game. And he's making some great passes and has good stick work. Stil gets a little jitterywith the puck around the net but that will come. Those three lines had 100+ point players on them ... let's see if The SCisSors Line can get their first 70 point player before we compare them to those lines |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 17, 2023 18:44:38 GMT -5
Did someone bring in a new hopium barrel? It was nice to see Anderson score a few and we did dominate them but we also lost the hinges on the door in the 3rd. I keep repeating my repeating...we need better defensive system. I don't care if it slows down our offense as long as it stops the opposition. Remember when Price was stopping everything? 90% of it was the team keeping the opposition on the wall and giving them low percentage shots. With a 4-0 lead, this was the perfect game to run a hard core shut down game...that we don't have. The last thing a group of players learn is how to play 2 ways, look how long it took Ovie, when he did he won a cup... yes they need to get waaaaay better at playing a smart structured defensive game but that takes some time, I am more concerned with who the Ass. Coaches are right now. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 17, 2023 20:46:34 GMT -5
The last thing a group of players learn is how to play 2 ways, look how long it took Ovie, when he did he won a cup... yes they need to get waaaaay better at playing a smart structured defensive game but that takes some time, I am more concerned with who the Ass. Coaches are right now. Two way game isn't rooockety sciency. Boils down to skating hard, fighting to win board battles and using common sense. I remember watching 5'8" Donauld Audette in Hamilton. He spend a third of the time looking where the defenseman was behind him. He was facing our net. Constantly closing the passing gap and moving forward or backward while reading the play. Then i watched ice grazers like Hossa who were facing forward waiting for the puck. In the next game, watch what the winger is doing and which direction he's facing when the play is in the opposite side. Is he facing our goalie and looking to close the passing gap? Close enough to any opposing forwards/defenseman to engage them...or looking forward for that breakout pass? That is the most rudimentary difference between playing a complete game and being an offensive Prima Dummy. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 18, 2023 9:19:10 GMT -5
The last thing a group of players learn is how to play 2 ways, look how long it took Ovie, when he did he won a cup... yes they need to get waaaaay better at playing a smart structured defensive game but that takes some time, I am more concerned with who the Ass. Coaches are right now. Two way game isn't rooockety sciency. Boils down to skating hard, fighting to win board battles and using common sense. I remember watching 5'8" Donauld Audette in Hamilton. He spend a third of the time looking where the defenseman was behind him. He was facing our net. Constantly closing the passing gap and moving forward or backward while reading the play. Then i watched ice grazers like Hossa who were facing forward waiting for the puck. In the next game, watch what the winger is doing and which direction he's facing when the play is in the opposite side. Is he facing our goalie and looking to close the passing gap? Close enough to any opposing forwards/defenseman to engage them...or looking forward for that breakout pass? That is the most rudimentary difference between playing a complete game and being an offensive Prima Dummy. A 2 way game is about awareness, if you never worried about it like Cole, Josh and offensive minded players, then it's something you have to learn, but the split second where you have to think about it is when you're done... the guy is past you... it takes time to makevis 2nd nature... it's not rocket science... it's a learned behavior and that takes time and the right teachers.... we don't have the right teachers imo. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 18, 2023 13:56:54 GMT -5
]A 2 way game is about awareness, if you never worried about it like Cole, Josh and offensive minded players, then it's something you have to learn, but the split second where you have to think about it is when you're done... the guy is past you... it takes time to makevis 2nd nature... it's not rocket science... it's a learned behavior and that takes time and the right teachers.... we don't have the right teachers imo. I dunno, Willie. I played soccer for 55 years and never once met an offensive guy who gave a hoot about defence. I recall one guy who could be a stride away from his check and not exerting any energy to get in front of him. That's didn't mean they were useless, just don't expect any defence out of them. That's easier to handle in soccer where there are 10 other players to cover. It's more of a liability in hockey. That example I gave of Tarasenko and Tkachuk just comfortably backchecking instead of hoofing it, and allowing a goal is exactly what I mean. It might explain why coaches place a good defensive winger with 2 offensive guys. Artturi Lehkonen. I loved stopping people, almost as much as setting up a goal. I really enjoyed anticipating the next move, breaking into the right spot even before the play started, and being given the ball by the opposition. Such a great reaction to see, "Where'd he come from?" I really liked defending and I suspect good, aware defensive players are often that way. Then there's probably a bunch of guys in between. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 18, 2023 14:56:26 GMT -5
If you don't defend as a forward, you're playing pond hockey.
One of the worse examples that pops to mind is Patrik Laine. He had a -24 while scoring 30 goals. Or Yakupov who was in the -30s because he refused to find his own end with a flashlight.
I rather have a 20 goal plus +20 player then a 30 goal -30 player. Worse the 30 goal player will demand 5-6 million even if he is a Prima Dummy.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 18, 2023 15:07:07 GMT -5
A 2 way game is about awareness, if you never worried about it like Cole, Josh and offensive minded players, then it's something you have to learn, but the split second where you have to think about it is when you're done... the guy is past you... it takes time to makevis 2nd nature... it's not rocket science... it's a learned behavior and that takes time and the right teachers.... we don't have the right teachers imo. I wont disagree that timing and positioning is a learned behaviour but it's also willingness to do the hard work. Floating around to get a pass is a lot easier then skating full speed back into trench warfare. That's were the coach comes in and insists that players get a bit sweaty to get to their own zone. Even if their positioning and awareness is basic, it's still more effective then picking open areas to break out for that next goal. Regardless, it all comes down to coaching. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 18, 2023 15:21:05 GMT -5
If you don't defend as a forward, you're playing pond hockey. One of the worse examples that pops to mind is Patrik Laine. He had a -24 while scoring 30 goals. Or Yakupov who was in the -30s because he refused to find his own end with a flashlight. I rather have a 20 goal plus +20 player then a 30 goal -30 player. Worse the 30 goal player will demand 5-6 million even if he is a Prima Dummy. We agree on this |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 18, 2023 15:22:29 GMT -5
A 2 way game is about awareness, if you never worried about it like Cole, Josh and offensive minded players, then it's something you have to learn, but the split second where you have to think about it is when you're done... the guy is past you... it takes time to makevis 2nd nature... it's not rocket science... it's a learned behavior and that takes time and the right teachers.... we don't have the right teachers imo. I wont disagree that timing and positioning is a learned behaviour but it's also willingness to do the hard work. Floating around to get a pass is a lot easier then skating full speed back into trench warfare. That's were the coach comes in and insists that players get a bit sweaty to get to their own zone. Even if their positioning and awareness is basic, it's still more effective then picking open areas to break out for that next goal. Regardless, it all comes down to coaching. I agree and we don't have the right assistants... I think this is universally accepted on this board... |
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