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Post by drkcloud on Mar 9, 2024 14:22:42 GMT -5
McCagg went on to say that Mysak is playing better right now than Perrault and definitely works harder but he just doesn't have the level of talent or upside that Perrault does.
He characterized the trade as taking a shot at a better talent with an asset that is being bypassed on the depth chart and would most likely never make the Canadiens with other center prospects being better.
Imo it sounds like Mysak has a better chance of being an nhl player in Anaheim, just not that impactful, while Perrault is a long shot but has a chance of being the better player if he gets his head right. To me, doubtful, as guys like that rarely see the light and begin to work their butt off like they never have in the past at any level. Can't imagine he'll be popular with a coach like MT Head Houle
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Post by jkr on Mar 9, 2024 14:53:47 GMT -5
Perreault will be 22 next month & has played 1 NHL game. I'm not expecting anything from him.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 9, 2024 15:01:02 GMT -5
" Perrault is a pure sniper with one of the best shots in this draft class. It's accurate, hard, and he can score from anywhere. His ability to catch and shoot pucks in stride when the passes aren't in the wheelhouse is a transferable skill that will serve him well." -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft Guide Really? I never knew that their mothers write this stuff up.  The write up tells us a lot by what's not in it. Obviously there is nothing there about his work ethic, going onto the dirty areas, physicality, etc. Here is the writeup on Bayfield...MASSIVE difference. Where most skaters seek out space; Byfield carries the puck like a power running back in the NFL. Blessed with a 6-foot-4 frame, explosive skating stride, and extremely gifted hands, this is a player who always wants the puck on his stick. A fantastic transporter of the puck, deploying a wide array of rush patterns to adjust to defensive fronts. -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft Guide |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 9, 2024 16:08:13 GMT -5
If utilized correctly I think Mysak will stay in North America, if he stayed with laval and was being kept on the 4th line by Houle then I could see him leaving... houle reminds me of MTHead... if he u do something he doesn’t like, you're done... I sold a large air tank that weighed about 1500 pounds and about 9ft tall. This 20+ year old shows up with a cargo van to pick up it up instead of a flatbed truck. OK...now we have a problem...for about 10 seconds. I put a loading strap on a hard point on the tank and picked it up. It's in the air tilted at 45 degrees and by hand gestures i instruct the kid what to do when I bring it to the van door. This kid from India who barely speaks 5 words of English picks up on what I want him to do and executes it flawlessly. When the tank gets close to the door, he grabs the dirty, oily feet, gives it all he got to lift it in the end and i slide it the rest of the way with the fork-lift. We're done in 2 minutes. It was brief but what a pleasure to work with him! Moral of the story...while there are bad coaches out there, don't assume it's their fault when these "mommy-told-me-I'm-a-star" don't want to follow instructions or put in the effort and/or *gulp* the dirty work.. From the several games I saw of Ylonen, he only gives an effort when it came to scoring and the dirty work of retrieving the puck or using his not so small body to check someone off the puck was way too much to ask for. Manicure smashing is a crime. From what I read of Mysak, same thing. Is it really coaching? Iirc, other players have struggled under him... the problem is as an AHL coach your job is to develop players and win games, that's not always possible at the same time, add to that the guys desire to move up to the big league, so he puts more emphasis on winning than developing, and the guys who need development suffer |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 9, 2024 16:18:02 GMT -5
" Perrault is a pure sniper with one of the best shots in this draft class. It's accurate, hard, and he can score from anywhere. His ability to catch and shoot pucks in stride when the passes aren't in the wheelhouse is a transferable skill that will serve him well." -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft Guide Really? I never knew that their mothers write this stuff up. The write up tells us a lot by what's not in it. Obviously there is nothing there about his work ethic, going onto the dirty areas, physicality, etc. Here is the writeup on Bayfield...MASSIVE difference. Where most skaters seek out space; Byfield carries the puck like a power running back in the NFL. Blessed with a 6-foot-4 frame, explosive skating stride, and extremely gifted hands, this is a player who always wants the puck on his stick. A fantastic transporter of the puck, deploying a wide array of rush patterns to adjust to defensive fronts. -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft GuideAll writeups are fluff pieces anyways, if you're going to give positive info, give the negative as well... Did Byfields mom write his writeup? Comparing a 2nd overall 6'5" 215lb player to a 27th over all 5'11" 189lb player is ridiculous... |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 9, 2024 17:33:02 GMT -5
It would depend on what you call "results". But under my definition, we have way better results in rounds one and round two over the past decade than what we've had in rounds 5-7. The only notable players in rounds 5-7 that we've drafted over the past decade are Cayden Primeau, Jake Evans, and Joshua Roy. I'd then argue the only impact player of that group would be Joshua Roy, but the sample size on him is very small. ** my definition of impact player is a goal per game pace of 0.3, or points per game pace of 0.7, over 200 games ** ** for defensemen I use 0.4 points per game ** Complete list of players drafted by the Habs in the 2nd round since 2013 Jacob de la Rose Zach Fucale Josh Brook Joni Ikonen Jesse Ylonen Alexander Romanov Jacob Olofsson Jayden Struble Luke Tuch Jan Mysak Riley Kidney Oliver Kapanen Owen Beck Lane Hutson A couple stories have yet to be written in Beck and Hutson, but there's more than a few whiffs in that group and only a very few with nhl experience and no one impactful other than Romanov. And this might be better than the average for 2 round picks. I’m going yo go look at 2015, a good draft year. Dermott, Aho (who was picked after Mitchell Stephens) Brandon Carlo, AJ Greer, Mckenzie Blackwood, Erik Cernak, Daniel Sprong, Roope Hintze, jordan Greenway, Jeremy Lauzon, Rasmus Andersson, Yakov Trenin, Vince Dunn, Jonas Siegenthaler, and Oliver Kylington. A spectacular haul, IMO, but that was an exceptional year. Four guys have come out of the 3rd round that year, including Monty. In 2013, not as good. Adam Erne, JT Compher, Tristan Jarry, Lehky, William Carrier, Tyler Bertuzzi and Zach Sanford. Not nearly the numbers or quality of 2015. The draft year matters. Wish we had a 2nd rounder in 2015. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 9, 2024 18:17:52 GMT -5
You should add that 2013 was touted as a really deep draft, and was the reason almost every poster on here (I was one of a few on the other side) was against using any of our 4 picks (3 in the second round) in the first 2 rounds to add to the team for the playoffs. It was also one reason the Habs management gave (along with the good ol trades are hard)
We had a first place team that was strong defensively, but towards the end was struggling offensively and all we added was Davis Drewiske
This is my problem with drafts. Hyping a draft as good and then pointing to it as being weak, years later, to justify poor drafting / asset management.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 9, 2024 19:01:59 GMT -5
" Perrault is a pure sniper with one of the best shots in this draft class. It's accurate, hard, and he can score from anywhere. His ability to catch and shoot pucks in stride when the passes aren't in the wheelhouse is a transferable skill that will serve him well." -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft Guide Really? I never knew that their mothers write this stuff up. The write up tells us a lot by what's not in it. Obviously there is nothing there about his work ethic, going onto the dirty areas, physicality, etc. Here is the writeup on Bayfield...MASSIVE difference. Where most skaters seek out space; Byfield carries the puck like a power running back in the NFL. Blessed with a 6-foot-4 frame, explosive skating stride, and extremely gifted hands, this is a player who always wants the puck on his stick. A fantastic transporter of the puck, deploying a wide array of rush patterns to adjust to defensive fronts. -EliteProspects 2020 NHL Draft GuideAll writeups are fluff pieces anyways, if you're going to give positive info, give the negative as well... Did Byfields mom write his writeup? Comparing a 2nd overall 6'5" 215lb player to a 27th over all 5'11" 189lb player is ridiculous... Nothing about comparing them. Pointing out that even mommy's write-up didn't have anything about his work ethic or physicality. Did they scout him? |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 9, 2024 21:04:55 GMT -5
All writeups are fluff pieces anyways, if you're going to give positive info, give the negative as well... Did Byfields mom write his writeup? Comparing a 2nd overall 6'5" 215lb player to a 27th over all 5'11" 189lb player is ridiculous... Nothing about comparing them. Pointing out that even mommy's write-up didn't have anything about his work ethic or physicality. Did they scout him? If they didn't then that is disappointing, but maybe Hughes or Gorton know the kid somehow, but really we didn't give up anything substantial to get him, if he works out, great, if not no biggie... |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 11, 2024 14:55:22 GMT -5
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Mar 12, 2024 0:02:15 GMT -5
Nothing about comparing them. Pointing out that even mommy's write-up didn't have anything about his work ethic or physicality. Did they scout him? If they didn't then that is disappointing, but maybe Hughes or Gorton know the kid somehow, but really we didn't give up anything substantial to get him, if he works out, great, if not no biggie... Agree. It’s a crapshoot. We have too many prospects and players. Lots of journeymen. We can trade numbers for quality. Even if some long shots don’t make it we lose nothing that leads us to the cup. I happily trade 3 prospects for one shot at greatness. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 12, 2024 0:27:43 GMT -5
Duh. Really? You have a scorer presented to you and you see him more as a power play player than a penalty killer? You have a remarkable grasp of the obvious. Anything else running around in that brain of yours? Anything? |
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Post by habsorbed on Mar 12, 2024 1:36:24 GMT -5
Duh. Really? You have a scorer presented to you and you see him more as a power play player than a penalty killer? You have a remarkable grasp of the obvious. Anything else running around in that brain of yours? Anything? He's always seen Primeau as a goalie. In fact he is so convinced of that, he has never once used Primeau in any other position.  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 12, 2024 8:23:04 GMT -5
I feel your MTHoule pain and agree with it... I posted that because I wanted a reaction... lol
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 12, 2024 8:30:02 GMT -5
If they didn't then that is disappointing, but maybe Hughes or Gorton know the kid somehow, but really we didn't give up anything substantial to get him, if he works out, great, if not no biggie... Agree. It’s a crapshoot. We have too many prospects and players. Lots of journeymen. We can trade numbers for quality. Even if some long shots don’t make it we lose nothing that leads us to the cup. I happily trade 3 prospects for one shot at greatness. This year is the go for it year, if you get celebrini, great, if not you go all in for a kid who fits in to our time line... |
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Post by habsorbed on Mar 12, 2024 10:05:11 GMT -5
Agree. It’s a crapshoot. We have too many prospects and players. Lots of journeymen. We can trade numbers for quality. Even if some long shots don’t make it we lose nothing that leads us to the cup. I happily trade 3 prospects for one shot at greatness. This year is the go for it year, if you get celebrini, great, if not you go all in for a kid who fits in to our time line... Is KK's younger brother in this year's draft?  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 12, 2024 11:51:02 GMT -5
This year is the go for it year, if you get celebrini, great, if not you go all in for a kid who fits in to our time line... Is KK's younger brother in this year's draft? I still have faith HuGo know what they are doing and when to be bold. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 12, 2024 14:27:43 GMT -5
I feel your MTHoule pain and agree with it... I posted that because I wanted a reaction... lol Low hanging fruit. One can always get a reaction from me by posting a stupid comment. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 12, 2024 14:32:35 GMT -5
I feel your MTHoule pain and agree with it... I posted that because I wanted a reaction... lol Low hanging fruit. One can always get a reaction from me by posting a stupid comment. Ya, so far Houle doesn't mess with the high profle guys, Mysak was a 48th OA, but I still would have preferred he be given a good shot rather than some AHL lifer playing higher in the lineup. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 12, 2024 14:52:21 GMT -5
Is KK's younger brother in this year's draft? I still have faith HuGo know what they are doing and when to be bold. They really haven't made any mistakes yet. The one deal that hasn't worked out well is the Lehky one. Barron has not become (yet) what they hoped (and IMO, he won't) and that second round pick this year is not likely to be a winner, but then again, it might be better than we expect. Richer, Claude Lemieux, Lehkonen himself....all 2nd round picks so sometimes they work out quite well. As a side note, I wonder if the stats on successful picks are behind the trend. For example, I pointed out that Richer and C Lemieux were second roundn picks. They were 29th and 26th overall picks which would put them in the first round today. The hockey pool universe has grown substantially, though. In 1984, the year Richer was drafted, Petr Svoboda (5) and Mikael Andersson (18) were the only 2 non Canadian or non American players drafted. In Lemieux's 1983 class, Ville Siren (23) was the only player drafted from outside N.A. I would quite easily state that even though we've gone from 21 to 32 teams, the universe of draft possibilities has increased even more. In 2019, 3 of the first 32 were non North American. In 2015 that number rose to 6. In 2020, that number was 8. In this most recent draft, 13 non North American kids were drafted in round 1, over 1/3 of the picks. The pool is larger, so those 2nd and 3rd round picks are likely more valuable than they used to be. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 12, 2024 15:41:48 GMT -5
I still have faith HuGo know what they are doing and when to be bold. They really haven't made any mistakes yet. The one deal that hasn't worked out well is the Lehky one. Barron has not become (yet) what they hoped (and IMO, he won't) and that second round pick this year is not likely to be a winner, but then again, it might be better than we expect. Richer, Claude Lemieux, Lehkonen himself....all 2nd round picks so sometimes they work out quite well. As a side note, I wonder if the stats on successful picks are behind the trend. For example, I pointed out that Richer and C Lemieux were second roundn picks. They were 29th and 26th overall picks which would put them in the first round today. The hockey pool universe has grown substantially, though. In 1984, the year Richer was drafted, Petr Svoboda (5) and Mikael Andersson (18) were the only 2 non Canadian or non American players drafted. In Lemieux's 1983 class, Ville Siren (23) was the only player drafted from outside N.A. I would quite easily state that even though we've gone from 21 to 32 teams, the universe of draft possibilities has increased even more. In 2019, 3 of the first 32 were non North American. In 2015 that number rose to 6. In 2020, that number was 8. In this most recent draft, 13 non North American kids were drafted in round 1, over 1/3 of the picks. The pool is larger, so those 2nd and 3rd round picks are likely more valuable than they used to be. That Lekhy Barron was a win win at the time, they got a guy who helped them win the cup and we got a highly regarded D prospect... Not sure what Barron is now... |
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Post by PTH on Mar 12, 2024 15:52:34 GMT -5
They really haven't made any mistakes yet. The one deal that hasn't worked out well is the Lehky one. Barron has not become (yet) what they hoped (and IMO, he won't) and that second round pick this year is not likely to be a winner, but then again, it might be better than we expect. Richer, Claude Lemieux, Lehkonen himself....all 2nd round picks so sometimes they work out quite well. As a side note, I wonder if the stats on successful picks are behind the trend. For example, I pointed out that Richer and C Lemieux were second roundn picks. They were 29th and 26th overall picks which would put them in the first round today. The hockey pool universe has grown substantially, though. In 1984, the year Richer was drafted, Petr Svoboda (5) and Mikael Andersson (18) were the only 2 non Canadian or non American players drafted. In Lemieux's 1983 class, Ville Siren (23) was the only player drafted from outside N.A. I would quite easily state that even though we've gone from 21 to 32 teams, the universe of draft possibilities has increased even more. In 2019, 3 of the first 32 were non North American. In 2015 that number rose to 6. In 2020, that number was 8. In this most recent draft, 13 non North American kids were drafted in round 1, over 1/3 of the picks. The pool is larger, so those 2nd and 3rd round picks are likely more valuable than they used to be. That Lekhy Barron was a win win at the time, they got a guy who helped them win the cup and we got a highly regarded D prospect... Not sure what Barron is now... We can still hope he turns into a Petry-type of top-4 defenseman.... but he might also just be a Hainsey/Beaulieu/Dykhuis type of middling journeyman. When you trade for picks or kids, some of the deals will be solid wins, but some will also be disappointing. Just consider how the Rangers could've taken Plekanec rather than Balej for Kovalev, but when the deal was made you really couldn't tell who would work out and who wouldn't. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 12, 2024 17:33:54 GMT -5
I remember that story about the Kovalev trade. it really bothered me that Gainey dangled Plekanec. He obviously didn't know what he had.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 12, 2024 21:53:39 GMT -5
He traded McDonagh so you wonder just what information he was getting or which games he was watching. Balej did supposedly have higher upside at the time, so no real mystery there.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 17, 2024 22:59:50 GMT -5
He traded McDonagh so you wonder just what information he was getting or which games he was watching. Balej did supposedly have higher upside at the time, so no real mystery there. Just finished reading Pat Hickey's book, "If These Walls Could Talk: Montreal Canadiens: Stories from the Montreal Canadiens Ice, Locker Room, and Press Box". According to Hickey, Bob Gainey went to the AHL to specifically scout Ryan McDonagh ... unfortunately, Gainey saw McDonagh have a (rare) terrible game as good players sometimes do ... and, for that one off night, Gainey had no problem throwing him in as a spare part to the trade ... as for the book, itself, it's an excellent read ... Cheers. |
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Post by habsorbed on Mar 18, 2024 0:32:05 GMT -5
He traded McDonagh so you wonder just what information he was getting or which games he was watching. Balej did supposedly have higher upside at the time, so no real mystery there. Just finished reading Pat Hickey's book, "If These Walls Could Talk: Montreal Canadiens: Stories from the Montreal Canadiens Ice, Locker Room, and Press Box". According to Hickey, Bob Gainey went to the AHL to specifically scout Ryan McDonagh ... unfortunately, Gainey saw McDonagh have a (rare) terrible game as good players sometimes do ... and, for that one off night, Gainey had no problem throwing him in as a spare part to the trade ... as for the book, itself, it's an excellent read ... Cheers. Wondering if Ryan knew Bob was watching? In any event. wouldn't you hope Bob's advisers would tell him that, for whatever reason, Ryan had an off night? Also, do you decide to trade a top prospect based on watching him play one game? Nonetheless, defintely going to get the book. Tx for the tip! |
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Post by jkr on Mar 18, 2024 7:48:45 GMT -5
Just finished reading Pat Hickey's book, "If These Walls Could Talk: Montreal Canadiens: Stories from the Montreal Canadiens Ice, Locker Room, and Press Box". According to Hickey, Bob Gainey went to the AHL to specifically scout Ryan McDonagh ... unfortunately, Gainey saw McDonagh have a (rare) terrible game as good players sometimes do ... and, for that one off night, Gainey had no problem throwing him in as a spare part to the trade ... as for the book, itself, it's an excellent read ... Cheers. Wondering if Ryan knew Bob was watching? In any event. wouldn't you hope Bob's advisers would tell him that, for whatever reason, Ryan had an off night? Also, do you decide to trade a top prospect based on watching him play one game? Nonetheless, defintely going to get the book. Tx for the tip! The only record I can find of McDonagh playing in the AHL was after he was traded to the Rangers. He spent some time in Hartford. I wonder if Hickey meant Gainey scouted him during his NCAA days at the University of Wisconsin. |
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Post by habsorbed on Mar 18, 2024 11:04:52 GMT -5
Wondering if Ryan knew Bob was watching? In any event. wouldn't you hope Bob's advisers would tell him that, for whatever reason, Ryan had an off night? Also, do you decide to trade a top prospect based on watching him play one game? Nonetheless, defintely going to get the book. Tx for the tip! The only record I can find of McDonagh playing in the AHL was after he was traded to the Rangers. He spent some time in Hartford. I wonder if Hickey meant Gainey scouted him during his NCAA days at the University of Wisconsin. Then why would Gainey have drafted him if he didn't ike what hwe saw at NCAA? I think Hickey may be a little loose with his facts. I see someone points out that Hickey writes Brian Savage "was traded to the LA Lakers"  |
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Post by jkr on Mar 18, 2024 11:21:37 GMT -5
The only record I can find of McDonagh playing in the AHL was after he was traded to the Rangers. He spent some time in Hartford. I wonder if Hickey meant Gainey scouted him during his NCAA days at the University of Wisconsin. Then why would Gainey have drafted him if he didn't ike what hwe saw at NCAA? I think Hickey may be a little loose with his facts. I see someone points out that Hickey writes Brian Savage "was traded to the LA Lakers" His book editor needs to be fired.😀 I just find old school writers are prepared to wing it & reluctant to do the most basic fact checking. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 18, 2024 17:59:16 GMT -5
Wondering if Ryan knew Bob was watching? In any event. wouldn't you hope Bob's advisers would tell him that, for whatever reason, Ryan had an off night? Also, do you decide to trade a top prospect based on watching him play one game? Nonetheless, defintely going to get the book. Tx for the tip! The only record I can find of McDonagh playing in the AHL was after he was traded to the Rangers. He spent some time in Hartford. I wonder if Hickey meant Gainey scouted him during his NCAA days at the University of Wisconsin. This sounds right, JKR ... I didn't have the reference by me, but this was it ... anyway, it reads a lot better the way Hickey writes about it ... Cheers. |
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