In Kent we trust

[Willie Dog]

I like the steady and planned route Hughes is taking, it makes me see a light at the end of a long dark burgerbrain tunnel... if BB was still here we would have PLDonkey on the club and who knows who else...


www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/amp/kent_hughes_is_a_genius/s1_17387_40569972

[seventeen]

You guys may have noticed I was very lukewarm (understatement) toward the Habs the last 3 years of Bergevin's reign of terror. It was clear how bad a GM he was and only Covid and some remarkably fortunate bounces (along with Carey of course) got us to the SC final in 21. When one faces a situation like that, the first step is to stop digging. This meant firing Bergevin and any cronies of his because until that happens, there is no hope. It took Molson far longer than it should to do that.  I almost feel like I should apologize for being negative...almost.  Bergevin needed to be removed and only failure would accomplish that. 

The second step to resurrrection is hiring an excellent replacement. Not just a good one, but an excellent one. When the Rangers fired Jeff Gorton, I mentioned to a huge Canuck fan of mine that the Canucks really should fire Benning and hire Gorton as he is an excellent builder of teams. Fortunately, Francisco Aquilini was slow on the draw and Gorton was still available when Molson woke up. Sure, Hughes is a genius, but Gorton is a presidential genius for hiring him, building a true organization and putting the team on the right path to eventual success.

When it was the Habs turn to draft this year and the camera turned to their table, you could see Hughes actually smile. That is a rare sighting, folks. Kent Hughes with a smile on his face. I'm much more optimistic than a lot of people who kept saying the Habs didn't have that elite guy needed to win the Cup. I, contrarily, believe Slaf will be elite, Suzuki will in time be considered elite and Caufield will cement his reputation as an elite goal scorer. I don't doubt Gorton and Hughes also believe there was a good chance of those things happening, but you know....probabilities. So when Demigod became available, those probabilities changed big time. They improved further with Hage's drafting.

It's amazing what Gorton, with Hughes, has done to create this caring culture on the Habs. You can see it with numerous players on the team. Suzuki attends so many events, public and player ones. Caufield supports the incoming kids. Gallagher shows up at development camp. Beck displays leadership. It goes on throughout the organization....support for others in and outside the Habs.

When they turn the corner next year, approaching a playoff spot, you can bet other players in the league will note how cool it would be to be part of that resurgence. Hughes will have his choice of UFA's, based on need and cost. Who wouldn't want to be part of a team that's going to win a lot of games and do so for several years to come?

It's about time we had our joy back and we can thank Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes. (Now, how do we keep them for a long time?)

[Skilly]

The future may look bright, but I'll give the kudos when it goes from looking bright to being bright.

Too much can happen to derail to path

[habsorbed]

To a certain extent, HuGo's work to date has been the easy stuff: have a bad team, get high draft picks, get a good stable of prospects. As for trades: Dach and Newhook look good but at this point are really just young players with good potential. HuGo have yet to land a trade which brings in a good player ready to be a major contributor the minute they put on the jersey. And HuGo has yet to land a top free agent. And lastly, we still don't know how HuGo are at developing young players which will be critical going forward: Slafs should not have been in the NHL his draft year and i'm not sure Reinbacher should have played in Europe last year.

So while it all looks good, and I'm lovin' the Kool-Aid like everyne else, propsects are just that, prospects. I can provide a long list of highly regarded prospects we've had over the past few decades which never amounted to anything: KK, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Komiserak, Drouin, Lantendresse (sorry if I triggered any symptoms )

The main thing that gives me/us all hope is i don't believe we've ever had so many highly regarded prospects at the same time, so law of averages would suggest a few of them will blossom and become elite players. But as i said, we've got the large pool of prospects because we've been so bad for a number of years now.

Anyway, while I'm happy with what HuGO have done and the place they have positioned us, the hard work still needs to be done. So i will continue to trust for another year, maybe two.

[Cranky]

I was thrilled that we had Savard...until i wasn't.

I was thrilled we got Gainey...until i wasn't.

The thrill is gone and now it's purely...show me.

So far, HuGo has taken a safe path but until that path pays dividens, it's nothing special.

Sorry if I'm stingy with praise for the obvious and common sense...

[seventeen]

Jul 7, 2024 11:46:48 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

To a certain extent, HuGo's work to date has been the easy stuff: have a bad team, get high draft picks, get a good stable of prospects. As for trades: Dach and Newhook look good but at this point are really just young players with good potential. HuGo have yet to land a trade which brings in a good player ready to be a major contributor the minute they put on the jersey. And HuGo has yet to land a top free agent. And lastly, we still don't know how HuGo are at developing young players which will be critical going forward: Slafs should not have been in the NHL his draft year and i'm not sure Reinbacher should have played in Europe last year.

So while it all looks good, and I'm lovin' the Kool-Aid like everyne else, propsects are just that, prospects. I can provide a long list of highly regarded prospects we've had over the past few decades which never amounted to anything: KK, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Komiserak, Drouin, Lantendresse (sorry if I triggered any symptoms )

The main thing that gives me/us all hope is i don't believe we've ever had so many highly regarded prospects at the same time, so law of averages would suggest a few of them will blossom and become elite players. But as i said, we've got the large pool of prospects because we've been so bad for a number of years now.

Anyway, while I'm happy with what HuGO have done and the place they have positioned us, the hard work still needs to be done. So i will continue to trust for another year, maybe two.

Geeze. you guys are still suffering from Bergevitis "He who is incompetent will make poor decisions". My (longish) post reflected on the culture that HuGo have instilled, but look at the other differences between this regime and the previous one:

We have a scouting department that is encouraged to challenge other opinions (Skilly would thrive there )
We have a development group that works with those drafted players to improve their overall game
We have an actual analytics department (Chris Boucher is awesome) who are able to translate numbers to behaviours, to help the coaches and scouts.
We have a GM who is not afraid to be bold (Dach, Newhook, Monahan) and to understand the value of CAP and how to use it.

These are all organizational improvements. We have more, relevant groups who work together. There is a distinct plan and it is being followed with discipline, rather than by making ad hoc moves. These are all positive, positive factors.  The guys running this team are smart and focused. They don't hide behind plants or think they're the smartest guy in the room while likely being the dumbest. These are all good reasons to celebrate the process. The results have yet to show themselves, but things are definitely pointing in the right direction. Man, am I looking forward to Demidov getting here and I would not be surprised if it's sooner than next April.

[Willie Dog]

Jul 7, 2024 13:59:04 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Jul 7, 2024 11:46:48 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

To a certain extent, HuGo's work to date has been the easy stuff: have a bad team, get high draft picks, get a good stable of prospects. As for trades: Dach and Newhook look good but at this point are really just young players with good potential. HuGo have yet to land a trade which brings in a good player ready to be a major contributor the minute they put on the jersey. And HuGo has yet to land a top free agent. And lastly, we still don't know how HuGo are at developing young players which will be critical going forward: Slafs should not have been in the NHL his draft year and i'm not sure Reinbacher should have played in Europe last year.

So while it all looks good, and I'm lovin' the Kool-Aid like everyne else, propsects are just that, prospects. I can provide a long list of highly regarded prospects we've had over the past few decades which never amounted to anything: KK, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Komiserak, Drouin, Lantendresse (sorry if I triggered any symptoms )

The main thing that gives me/us all hope is i don't believe we've ever had so many highly regarded prospects at the same time, so law of averages would suggest a few of them will blossom and become elite players. But as i said, we've got the large pool of prospects because we've been so bad for a number of years now.

Anyway, while I'm happy with what HuGO have done and the place they have positioned us, the hard work still needs to be done. So i will continue to trust for another year, maybe two.

Geeze. you guys are still suffering from Bergevitis "He who is incompetent will make poor decisions". My (longish) post reflected on the culture that HuGo have instilled, but look at the other differences between this regime and the previous one:

We have a scouting department that is encouraged to challenge other opinions (Skilly would thrive there )
We have a development group that works with those drafted players to improve their overall game
We have an actual analytics department (Chris Boucher is awesome) who are able to translate numbers to behaviours, to help the coaches and scouts.
We have a GM who is not afraid to be bold (Dach, Newhook, Monahan) and to understand the value of CAP and how to use it.

These are all organizational improvements. We have more, relevant groups who work together. There is a distinct plan and it is being followed with discipline, rather than by making ad hoc moves. These are all positive, positive factors.  The guys running this team are smart and focused. They don't hide behind plants or think they're the smartest guy in the room while likely being the dumbest. These are all good reasons to celebrate the process. The results have yet to show themselves, but things are definitely pointing in the right direction. Man, am I looking forward to Demidov getting here and I would not be surprised if it's sooner than next April.

Well said 17

[folatre]

I am optimistic. The organization was at least a decade behind the times under Bergevin. And now I think ownership is finally investing resources in the areas that Nichols and Boucher are working. And though I do not have a head count, I assume the organization has beefed up scouting at least to an extent. And one of the main things that people take for granted is that there was not only not a smart person in the GM chair before Hughes assumed the role, there was no one in the Gorton role. Gorton has the title that he has. But the reality is that he is playing the role of an organizational President. Molson obviously owns the team so no one could realistically think he would officially give up that role. But I think, de facto, he actually has.

I do not think there is much to complain about up until now (I would have picked Michkov, eh). Montreal was a historically bad team when Hughes and St. Louis jumped in mid-season during 2021-22. Even discounting the relevance of prospect ratings and the tangible benefits of a deep prospect pool, the guys on the ice in Montreal improved 13 points in year one and 8 points in year two. So kids on the big club are developing positively and the culture is changing. I have no idea if Hughes will be able to pull off a big hockey trade for an NHL ready forward this summer. But with an ace up his sleeve (Demidov) and a tonne of cap space coming off the books next summer (Savard, Petry, Allen, Armia, Dvorak), I see the summer of 2025 as the genuine kick off of phase two.

[seventeen]

The Michkov/Reinbacher thing seems to be one that fans think management may have erred on. We don't really know yet because Reinbacher had that mess of a D+ 1 year before he arrived in Laval (where he was just fine). His style of play also isn't Hughes like or Makar like, so there's no flash there to wow us. Michkov has flash I guess, though I haven't personally seen it myself because of the Russia/ Ukraine war and the impact on international tournaments. We haven't seen him against others with which to compare. The one thing I remind myself of is that Nick Bobrov's father is directly in charge of the talent pipeline to SLA St. Petersburg. There would have had to be some exchanges between the two regarding Michkov. I also believe any critique of Michkov's will point to elite offensive talents clouded by self interest and little concern about defensive responsibilities. The interaction between Michkov and Torts will be of great interest to me.

[CentreHice]

Enjoying the optimistic takes here.

What's the confidence trajectory for the Montembeault-Primeau tandem?

Both with NHL GAA hovering around 3.40 and SV pct. under .900.

Relative to the team in front of them, I suppose...but is Eric Raymond in the goalie-whisperer category?

[Willie Dog]

Jul 8, 2024 6:45:35 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Enjoying the optimistic takes here.

What's the confidence trajectory for the Montembeault-Primeau tandem?

Both with NHL GAA hovering around 3.40 and SV pct. under .900.

Relative to the team in front of them, I suppose...but is Eric Raymond in the goalie-whisperer category?

I think they will both be serviceable fillers until Fowler shows up and makes his presence felt... the kid has big game goalie written all over him.

[Tankdriver]

I do like what our GM has done since arriving. However, as others have said, that was the easy part. The hard part is about to begin in the next year. That is getting a notable free agent to sign here, then hopefully pick diamonds in the rough as we drop lower and lower in the draft picking order.

I'm not sold on our goaltending, and still think we should of signed a veteran on a short term deal. However if he does make a trade for a young player that can step in this year, then I guess I can forgive him for that.

I still think we should "tank" another year and really secure this rebuild for the next decade. I know some are afraid of falling into the Detroit/Buffalo/Ottawa mold of many years out of the playoffs, but I think our front office is smarter than those guys. Plus each of them tried to sprint instead of taking baby steps. Ottawa, blowing their cap space, signing Giroux and trading picks for Debrincat + Chychren. Detroit signing average free agents (Copp, Chariot, Perron, husso, etc.) and not bottoming out to top 3 status (draft unlucky). Buffalo and its wack a mole approach, drafting Powers and Dahlin, trading for Thompson = good, coach hirings = bad, free agents = impossible.

[Boston_Habs]

So far the HuGo regime is everything many of us had been asking for following the Bergevin era - a professionally run hockey operation with experienced professionals in key areas, scouting, development, data analytics, strength and conditioning, psychology, cap management. If nothing else I have to imagine the total headcount in the organization is way more than it was under Bergevin, who I don't think ever really grasped or appreciated where the game was going in terms of management.

All that said, I agree this is the easy part. Use the lean years to restock the talent base, sign your core guys while they are less expensive, and try to build a culture of competitiveness and consistency. So far there haven't been too many moves with a ton of downside and the upside is still TBD.

But eventually there will be a deal or a moment where Hughes has to make a really tough decision, whether that's parting with a key piece to get something else or taking a risk on an expensive UFA. It's hard to get to the top solely on the backs of your drafted players. Whether it's unloading some of our D surplus or adding an impact forward, the toughest decisions are probably still 1-2 years down the road.

This team still lacks scoring depth and true 1st pair dmen, despite the depth at that position. I expect us to be pushing for a playoff spot this year (85-88 points) and in the playoffs the following season. But we're obviously a ways off from that 110-point level where the contenders are.

[Tankdriver]

That's the catch BH. Look at Edmonton. They had McDavid, Draistl, Hyman, Nugent-Hopkins, Bouchard and Ekholm and still couldn't get past the Panthers (Barkov, Tkachuk, Bennett, Ekblad, Montour, Reinhart)

Montreal still has a long ways to go. Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkofsky, Dach, Matheson and Guhle?? are not at the same level as the teams above. Can they get by a round or two? Maybe? They are good/very good players but are not great-elite players that are pushing 100 point and or 40 goals. Hopefully it comes, but I still think we need more.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jul 7, 2024 19:01:39 GMT -5 seventeen said:

The Michkov/Reinbacher thing seems to be one that fans think management may have erred on. We don't really know yet because Reinbacher had that mess of a D+ 1 year before he arrived in Laval (where he was just fine). His style of play also isn't Hughes like or Makar like, so there's no flash there to wow us. Michkov has flash I guess, though I haven't personally seen it myself because of the Russia/ Ukraine war and the impact on international tournaments. We haven't seen him against others with which to compare. The one thing I remind myself of is that Nick Bobrov's father is directly in charge of the talent pipeline to SLA St. Petersburg. There would have had to be some exchanges between the two regarding Michkov. I also believe any critique of Michkov's will point to elite offensive talents clouded by self interest and little concern about defensive responsibilities. The interaction between Michkov and Torts will be of great interest to me.

Adding to the Reinbacher pilling on, how would a number one line of Slavkovsky, Michkov Davidov compare? There is a history of jr. b goaltender, Dryden US college kid, grandfather Bower, late round unknown suddenly rising to the occasion. Number 5 pick Price sure thing is the exception. Our defense has numbers and both offensive scoring and shutdown potential. Suzuki, Dach and Caufield on line two is not bad. We also have the intangibles to play rough and hard when called for.

[Cranky]

If...if we can get our hands on an offensive star and one or two offensive defenseman...if.

I just don't know if we can find these!

Maybe we can draft them and develop them?

I would even settle if one of them was a Russian!

[seventeen]

I'm not sure there is an 'easy' part to this process. Losing is not easy, drafting the right players for the right positions is not easy. Picking Reinbacher ahead of Michkov was not easy. Choosing Slaf ahead of Wright and Cooley was not easy. Taking a swing at Hutson was not easy. Gambling that Demidov would be there at 5, and having a back up plan in case he wasn't was not easy.

The next step (assuming the first step is complete and it may not be) is also not easy. Developing and signing the right players with an eye not only to their value, but to the CAP, to the length of the contracts and continuing to maintain the right culture, is also difficult. As Boston says, choosingto possibly trade away a player you have emotional connections to is really hard and may be necessary. Guhle is the first example I can think of. He's not replaceable, but we have a number of guys who might approach his value to us. What if we had to trade Guhle to get a certain forward? He would have to be pretty damn good.

The other parts that will have to be done is getting the right supporting cast in place, ensuring there's enough depth and CAP space to fill in holes.

The easiest part, IMO, is signing a UFA. By that time all the other questions will have been answered and we'll have one weakness that is easily identified and can, hopefully, be filled by a UFA who will be overpaid on too long a term.

Having both Gorton and Hughes looking after the above gives me confidence. If tough decisions can be shared, they are more easily made.

[folatre]

I get the feeling Matheson is not going anywhere until at the earliest the trade deadline in 2026 and if one also believes that Hutson is an NHL regular this season, I do not believe a club trying to cut down on high risk chances against would want more than two offensive gunslingers on the blue line. So for me the search for additional offensive d-men does not begin in earnest until 1-2 years down the road.

I have expressed the opinion that I would not trade Guhle for Zegras, Necas, or Ehlers for somewhat similar and somewhat different reasons across those respective cases. However, Guhle is not untouchable. It's just that he can only be moved at this stage for a young NHL-ready rising offensive talent who is either on his ELC or coming off his ELC so Hughes has the leverage to get the right kind of long-term deal done.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jul 8, 2024 19:26:49 GMT -5 folatre said:

I get the feeling Matheson is not going anywhere until at the earliest the trade deadline in 2026 and if one also believes that Hutson is an NHL regular this season, I do not believe a club trying to cut down on high risk chances against would want more than two offensive gunslingers on the blue line. So for me the search for additional offensive d-men does not begin in earnest until 1-2 years down the road.

I have expressed the opinion that I would not trade Guhle for Zegras, Necas, or Ehlers for somewhat similar and somewhat different reasons across those respective cases. However, Guhle is not untouchable. It's just that he can only be moved at this stage for a young NHL-ready rising offensive talent who is either on his ELC or coming off his ELC so Hughes has the leverage to get the right kind of long-term deal done.

Guhle is not a problem child asking to be traded. Hughes has the luxury of not having to trade. That is an advantage. Guhle also has less demand in contract talks. When a GM is forced into a yard sale he can expect to get less than full value.

[folatre]

LA, totally. Guhle is established in the top 4 at age 22. And by all accounts, he really likes being a Hab. Nothing about this kid's profile and development suggest anyone in the organization would want to move on. The only reason his name comes up is because to land something seriously worthwhile up front (young, talented, runway before player gets contract leverage), the Habs would have to give to get.

The Demidov factor may be changing the tenor of potential conversations between Hughes and GMs around the league. Obviously Hughes has less pressure on him to give up a young (19-22) top four d-man for a young (19-22) top six forward.

[seventeen]

Jul 8, 2024 20:50:43 GMT -5 folatre said:

LA, totally. Guhle is established in the top 4 at age 22. And by all accounts, he really likes being a Hab. Nothing about this kid's profile and development suggest anyone in the organization would want to move on. The only reason his name comes up is because to land something seriously worthwhile up front (young, talented, runway before player gets contract leverage), the Habs would have to give to get.

The Demidov factor may be changing the tenor of potential conversations between Hughes and GMs around the league. Obviously Hughes has less pressure on him to give up a young (19-22) top four d-man for a young (19-22) top six forward.

I only used Guhle as an example of a type of very difficult decision which might have to be made. It could be something completely different from Guhle. My preference is to move Matheson. Age alone is a good enough reason IMO, but this summer may be too soon.

At the trade deadline, we will have a better idea of which defensemen have moved up another rung, whether it's on the Habs or the Rocket and we also will know more about Dach, Roy, Newhook, Beck, Kapanen, Hage, Xhekaj and even Slafkovsky. We may have moved on from one or more of Dvorak, Anderson or Armia. In other words a lot of the questions we have right now will be answered (but we may have new questions). By next summer, even more matters will have solidified and perhaps by then Matheson can be traded for a younger player or first round pick.

FRankly, I can't imagine a scenario where we trade either Guhle or Xhekaj. Both those guys look like playoff warriors to me and if you trade those guys (like Hyman) you end up looking for that exact player to plug a giant hole.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jul 9, 2024 1:40:41 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Jul 8, 2024 20:50:43 GMT -5 folatre said:

LA, totally. Guhle is established in the top 4 at age 22. And by all accounts, he really likes being a Hab. Nothing about this kid's profile and development suggest anyone in the organization would want to move on. The only reason his name comes up is because to land something seriously worthwhile up front (young, talented, runway before player gets contract leverage), the Habs would have to give to get.

The Demidov factor may be changing the tenor of potential conversations between Hughes and GMs around the league. Obviously Hughes has less pressure on him to give up a young (19-22) top four d-man for a young (19-22) top six forward.

I only used Guhle as an example of a type of very difficult decision which might have to be made. It could be something completely different from Guhle. My preference is to move Matheson. Age alone is a good enough reason IMO, but this summer may be too soon.

At the trade deadline, we will have a better idea of which defensemen have moved up another rung, whether it's on the Habs or the Rocket and we also will know more about Dach, Roy, Newhook, Beck, Kapanen, Hage, Xhekaj and even Slafkovsky. We may have moved on from one or more of Dvorak, Anderson or Armia. In other words a lot of the questions we have right now will be answered (but we may have new questions). By next summer, even more matters will have solidified and perhaps by then Matheson can be traded for a younger player or first round pick.

FRankly, I can't imagine a scenario where we trade either Guhle or Xhekaj. Both those guys look like playoff warriors to me and if you trade those guys (like Hyman) you end up looking for that exact player to plug a giant hole.

I understand the concern about age but Matheson was one of the best defensemen in the entire league. We need to end the mentally that tanking is good and the goal for the year is a high draft pick. Teams can win and a single player who will be an addition in two years and perhaps star in four years isn’t the goal. Hard work, selflessness, dedication to team play has to start. We paid our price and now the hard work begins. Winning begets winning. Playing on a losing team for a future generation that you won’t be a part of is not a path to victory. Matheson is a good guy with a good attitude and no warts.

[seventeen]

Jul 9, 2024 10:43:57 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I understand the concern about age but Matheson was one of the best defensemen in the entire league. We need to end the mentally that tanking is good and the goal for the year is a high draft pick. Teams can win and a single player who will be an addition in two years and perhaps star in four years isn’t the goal. Hard work, selflessness, dedication to team play has to start. We paid our price and now the hard work begins. Winning begets winning. Playing on a losing team for a future generation that you won’t be a part of is not a path to victory. Matheson is a good guy with a good attitude and no warts.

My reasoning has nothing to do with tanking as that part of the process is over, IMO. But now, it's filling out the roster and balancing the strengths and weaknesses. All the attributes Matheson brings to the Habs are valued. The counter to that is that we have Guhle, Hutson, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble and Engstrom, all of whom play the same side as Matheson and are 6-9 years younger, and don't have the trade value that Matheson has. All those young guys have good attitudes and no warts off the ice.

This is precisely one of those difficult decisions that HuGo face. I concur that one shouldn't be quick to trade him, but starting from the Trade deadline onward, we should be listening to offers. Matheson had a great year, but he doesn't strike me as anything more than average defensively (if that) and a 37% of his points (23) came on the PP. Are those points replaceable? I have no doubt at all they can be. Hutson, Mailloux, Guhle can all make those same passes Matheson did and take a similar, if not better, shot. I'd say they produce even more, since there wouldn't be a lack of willingness to distribute to Slaf, who is a guy who can break down defensive structures. There'd also be fewer faux pas'.

I would not consider trading Matheson until we have a better idea of the skill level, performance and potential of the guys I mentioned above (all LHD). That time might me as soon as the TDL or it might be next summer. But to maximize his asset value to improve other areas of the team (scoring or goaltending), he needs to be in consideration for a trade. Just as an example, say Josi gets injured and Nashville needs a guy to replace him. Would you trade Matheson for Askarov?

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jul 9, 2024 14:36:54 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Jul 9, 2024 10:43:57 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I understand the concern about age but Matheson was one of the best defensemen in the entire league. We need to end the mentally that tanking is good and the goal for the year is a high draft pick. Teams can win and a single player who will be an addition in two years and perhaps star in four years isn’t the goal. Hard work, selflessness, dedication to team play has to start. We paid our price and now the hard work begins. Winning begets winning. Playing on a losing team for a future generation that you won’t be a part of is not a path to victory. Matheson is a good guy with a good attitude and no warts.

My reasoning has nothing to do with tanking as that part of the process is over, IMO. But now, it's filling out the roster and balancing the strengths and weaknesses. All the attributes Matheson brings to the Habs are valued. The counter to that is that we have Guhle, Hutson, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble and Engstrom, all of whom play the same side as Matheson and are 6-9 years younger, and don't have the trade value that Matheson has. All those young guys have good attitudes and no warts off the ice.

This is precisely one of those difficult decisions that HuGo face. I concur that one shouldn't be quick to trade him, but starting from the Trade deadline onward, we should be listening to offers. Matheson had a great year, but he doesn't strike me as anything more than average defensively (if that) and a 37% of his points (23) came on the PP. Are those points replaceable? I have no doubt at all they can be. Hutson, Mailloux, Guhle can all make those same passes Matheson did and take a similar, if not better, shot. I'd say they produce even more, since there wouldn't be a lack of willingness to distribute to Slaf, who is a guy who can break down defensive structures. There'd also be fewer faux pas'.

I would not consider trading Matheson until we have a better idea of the skill level, performance and potential of the guys I mentioned above (all LHD). That time might me as soon as the TDL or it might be next summer. But to maximize his asset value to improve other areas of the team (scoring or goaltending), he needs to be in consideration for a trade. Just as an example, say Josi gets injured and Nashville needs a guy to replace him. Would you trade Matheson for Askarov?

Agree 99%. Any hockey player(even Gretzky) can be traded if the price is right. Agree too that Matheson has more value than the kids both in our mind and in those of the other 31GMs. Team spirit can be hurt when a loyal soldier in the trenches gets traded.

[Willie Dog]

Jul 9, 2024 15:39:02 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

Jul 9, 2024 14:36:54 GMT -5 seventeen said:

My reasoning has nothing to do with tanking as that part of the process is over, IMO. But now, it's filling out the roster and balancing the strengths and weaknesses. All the attributes Matheson brings to the Habs are valued. The counter to that is that we have Guhle, Hutson, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble and Engstrom, all of whom play the same side as Matheson and are 6-9 years younger, and don't have the trade value that Matheson has. All those young guys have good attitudes and no warts off the ice.

This is precisely one of those difficult decisions that HuGo face. I concur that one shouldn't be quick to trade him, but starting from the Trade deadline onward, we should be listening to offers. Matheson had a great year, but he doesn't strike me as anything more than average defensively (if that) and a 37% of his points (23) came on the PP. Are those points replaceable? I have no doubt at all they can be. Hutson, Mailloux, Guhle can all make those same passes Matheson did and take a similar, if not better, shot. I'd say they produce even more, since there wouldn't be a lack of willingness to distribute to Slaf, who is a guy who can break down defensive structures. There'd also be fewer faux pas'.

I would not consider trading Matheson until we have a better idea of the skill level, performance and potential of the guys I mentioned above (all LHD). That time might me as soon as the TDL or it might be next summer. But to maximize his asset value to improve other areas of the team (scoring or goaltending), he needs to be in consideration for a trade. Just as an example, say Josi gets injured and Nashville needs a guy to replace him. Would you trade Matheson for Askarov?

Agree 99%. Any hockey player(even Gretzky) can be traded if the price is right. Agree too that Matheson has more value than the kids both in our mind and in those of the other 31GMs. Team spirit can be hurt when a loyal soldier in the trenches gets traded.

I agree with you guys about moving him at the right time but I don't really have any loyalty to Matheson, he has played in league 8 seasons but only 130 games with the Habs, Guhle has played 114 and Xhekaj has played 95. Ideally if HuGo feel the D will be just as good without him, trade him for a 1st rounder in 2026 or 2027 or someone who can jump into the top 6... although I think Demidov, Newhook and Roy will have something to say about that next year...

[folatre]

St. Louis loves Matheson and I assume management really appreciates what he brings to the table. That does not make him untouchable (aside from his 8 team no trade list), but I just do not believe management wants to move a top pair vet who is wearing a letter because Hutson, physically at age 20, cannot replace Matheson's minutes. And I think management's vision is that 2024-25 needs to be development and improvement in terms of wins-losses. So making a deal that probably translates into more losing than in 2023-24 is probably not palatable.

[Polarice]

Twitterverse is saying that we will be trading a couple of Dman, even if it's just for picks. There is just too much of a log jamb and if we send certain guys down we will likely lose them to free agency and the Habs don't want to give guys away for nothing.

[seventeen]

Jul 9, 2024 17:51:38 GMT -5 folatre said:

St. Louis loves Matheson and I assume management really appreciates what he brings to the table. That does not make him untouchable (aside from his 8 team no trade list), but I just do not believe management wants to move a top pair vet who is wearing a letter because Hutson, physically at age 20, cannot replace Matheson's minutes. And I think management's vision is that 2024-25 needs to be development and improvement in terms of wins-losses. So making a deal that probably translates into more losing than in 2023-24 is probably not palatable.

This is why you don't do anything until the TDL at the earliest. You need 50 games or so to gauge which dmen can do what and if they are up to the task. If a few show they are competent and better, then Matheson's skill set becomes less important to the team and his value as a trade asset increases. If it appears we still need Matheson on the team, then he stays on the team. We have to have the option of moving him if it doesn't hurt the team, because whoever we get in return should surely help the team. The Net benefit is, obviously, the driver of the decision.

[seventeen]

Jul 10, 2024 6:10:46 GMT -5 Polarice said:

Twitterverse is saying that we will be trading a couple of Dman, even if it's just for picks. There is just too much of a log jamb and if we send certain guys down we will likely lose them to free agency and the Habs don't want to give guys away for nothing.

Harris and Barron are the two guys who have to go through waivers now. I think Montreal likes Harris a lot more than Barron, so Justin is likely on the way out, but don't expect a good return for him.

[Willie Dog]

Jul 10, 2024 16:09:53 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Jul 9, 2024 17:51:38 GMT -5 folatre said:

St. Louis loves Matheson and I assume management really appreciates what he brings to the table. That does not make him untouchable (aside from his 8 team no trade list), but I just do not believe management wants to move a top pair vet who is wearing a letter because Hutson, physically at age 20, cannot replace Matheson's minutes. And I think management's vision is that 2024-25 needs to be development and improvement in terms of wins-losses. So making a deal that probably translates into more losing than in 2023-24 is probably not palatable.

This is why you don't do anything until the TDL at the earliest. You need 50 games or so to gauge which dmen can do what and if they are up to the task. If a few show they are competent and better, then Matheson's skill set becomes less important to the team and his value as a trade asset increases. If it appears we still need Matheson on the team, then he stays on the team. We have to have the option of moving him if it doesn't hurt the team, because whoever we get in return should surely help the team. The Net benefit is, obviously, the driver of the decision.

This means Marty has to be open to giving other guys a chance at top line minutes and 1st pp time... having a forward on the point is no longer an option imo... we need to know what mailloux and Hutson can do on the 1st pp unit...