For the love of the game? Fer sure!

[Cranky]

Ahh, the love of the game! Where players give it their all and leave nothing but blood, sweat and tears on the ice! We ALL know that players don't give a damn about the bling-bling, the spinners or their dogs. We ALL know that they play for nothing less then for the glory of the team and adulation of their beloved fans.

Do you remember the dedicated play of Ruzinsky? Do you remember how skilled he was at letting up JUST before he made contact with another player? Sometimes he even made a mistake and actually broke out in beads of sweat when he thought the CH stood for Czeck Hockey.

Do you remember the incredibly talented Kovalev? He showed that incredible talent of saying all the right things and coming up with ALL the right excuses while skating lazy eight circles every night....until.....until his agent told him that he was not getting any offers and if he did not show SOMETHING in the last few games, millions would slip away. Heck, he even showed us how much pain he take for the team when he dropped the puck, stick and tears from a pee-wee slash.

How about the team dedication from tough guy Poutine Poulin? Can you forget how Mr. Czerkawski flew into a rage every time the team lost? How about the blood curdling "all for the team" screams from L'Enfant Terrible Traverse? With guys like that, it's a miracle, that the Hab's did not form a dynasty! A MIRACLE I tell you! But we are NOT alone with such greatness. Look around the league and have nothing but hallelujahs for the Holik's, cheers for the Chelios and kudos for the Geurin's that define the NHL! "Semper Fi to the game" trumpets the NHLPA!

Well, if you think that was the good old times, then your in luck. More to follow in the NEW "cheaper but better" NHL!

Every dedicated fan should know that NHLPA players NO LONGER care for the money. They know that the owners had to bring the salaries down to mere millions. "SO WHAT!" the players say if they can no longer feed their dogs fillet mignon in silver dishes. The players will look at the 25 million dollar a year steroid addled baseball players make and just LAUGH at that. They will look at the latest 10 million dollar a season contract some overstretched NBA felon makes and they will just LAUGH at that too! After all, what's a few million when their is pride and love of the game?

You just KNOW that Modano, Chelios, Kovalev, Holik and all the "stars" will forget the lost millions and rededicate themselves to be the best they can be. You just know that players will no longer fake an injury or hold back! They will no longer nurse that back in the ski slopes or "houses of ill repute". Only hockey players, among in the universally overadulated, overpaid sports world, only hockey players will play for the love of the game.

And as for the owners? They will do everything possible to show us what the game is all about. We will not remember the $100 tickets and 10 dollar beers when we see all the half naked woman serving them! Oops, did they spill it on themselves? And to be fair, since we all know the owners are FAIR, they will have six-pack thong wearing males serving the ladies. Laser shows? That the thing of the past! Now you will get half time shows of marching bands and barely legal cheerleaders. Did you know that Molson's is just a few dollars away from presenting us the Cabaret On Ice that we all KNOW will help our team win. And dancing bears? Yup! Just wait for it in the playoffs. And clowns. The Order of the Owners Brotherhood know that we NEED hockey clowns between AND DURING the game! After all, thing about how much fun that will be when clowns fall into the penalty box and mock fight the incarcerated!! If that's not the hockey spirit, then I don't know what is.

Dedicated half priced players and "never for the money" owners are going to give us what we crave for! I have seen the future of Hockey's Promised Land my friends and it looks like Rollerblades, born from the womb of Disneyworld and fathered by WWF.

While The Rocket is quietly weeping in his grave we should all get ready for the NEW NHL!

[seventeen]

What gives? Did someone take the seat off your barstool without you noticing it and you sat on it anyway? We've heard this lament before, but you seem to be freshly aggrieved. Its a given that the fans will be the losers (and have been, of course) in this silly dispute and my only consolation is that there will be some very direct Dave type stares (Semenko and Williams) directed at Biffy Bob for turning a $42MM cap into a $32MM cap without smoke or mirrors.

Now that you're at that bar anyway, order me up a drink, pardner.

[Cranky]

Woe is me, that I long for another sojourn to the Promised Land before the Reaper grins. At one time, not too long ago, there was balance in the universe. Man played for pride and honour without anchors of gold on their necks. Owners dreamed about the glory with nary a regard for the Seven Books of Mysterious Accounting. There was balance.

Now.....

Now, lifers like you and I, fully infected with disillusionment and detachment, expect nothing less then.....nothing. The fruits of our hockey passion is spoiling and I fear core rot is only a season or two away. Our current joy is not of the hope of a new season, but the expectation of public guillotining. We rejoice in that? To what end? Is that all that we care for now? Blood letting instead of blood boiling with pride? Have we slid so far down the abyss off indifference that only side shows peak our interest?

I DARE anyone on this board to tell me that the new NHL is going to be better, more enjoyable and have even a smidgen of the passion and glory of players of even a decade or two ago!

[franko]

habsaddict said:

I DARE anyone on this board to tell me that the new NHL is going to be better, more enjoyable and have even a smidgen of the passion and glory of players of even a decade or two ago.

Yes indeedy: the new NHL is going to be better -- much better, and more enjoyable -- much more enjoyable, and have more passion -- much more passion than the NHL has ever had.

Now excuse me while I

[Vinna]

habsaddict said:

Ahh, the love of the game! Where players give it their all and leave nothing but blood, sweat and tears on the ice! We ALL know that players don't give a damn about the bling-bling, the spinners or their dogs. We ALL know that they play for nothing less then for the glory of the team and adulation of their beloved fans.

Do you remember the dedicated play of Ruzinsky? Do you remember how skilled he was at letting up JUST before he made contact with another player? Sometimes he even made a mistake and actually broke out in beads of sweat when he thought the CH stood for Czeck Hockey.

Do you remember the incredibly talented Kovalev? He showed that incredible talent of saying all the right things and coming up with ALL the right excuses while skating lazy eight circles every night....until.....until his agent told him that he was not getting any offers and if he did not show SOMETHING in the last few games, millions would slip away. Heck, he even showed us how much pain he take for the team when he dropped the puck, stick and tears from a pee-wee slash.

How about the team dedication from tough guy Poutine Poulin? Can you forget how Mr. Czerkawski flew into a rage every time the team lost? How about the blood curdling "all for the team" screams from L'Enfant Terrible Traverse? With guys like that, it's a miracle, that the Hab's did not form a dynasty! A MIRACLE I tell you! But we are NOT alone with such greatness. Look around the league and have nothing but hallelujahs for the Holik's, cheers for the Chelios and kudos for the Geurin's that define the NHL! "Semper Fi to the game" trumpets the NHLPA!

Well, if you think that was the good old times, then your in luck. More to follow in the NEW "cheaper but better" NHL!

Every dedicated fan should know that NHLPA players NO LONGER care for the money. They know that the owners had to bring the salaries down to mere millions. "SO WHAT!" the players say if they can no longer feed their dogs fillet mignon in silver dishes. The players will look at the 25 million dollar a year steroid addled baseball players make and just LAUGH at that. They will look at the latest 10 million dollar a season contract some overstretched NBA felon makes and they will just LAUGH at that too! After all, what's a few million when their is pride and love of the game?

You just KNOW that Modano, Chelios, Kovalev, Holik and all the "stars" will forget the lost millions and rededicate themselves to be the best they can be. You just know that players will no longer fake an injury or hold back! They will no longer nurse that back in the ski slopes or "houses of ill repute". Only hockey players, among in the universally overadulated, overpaid sports world, only hockey players will play for the love of the game.

And as for the owners? They will do everything possible to show us what the game is all about. We will not remember the $100 tickets and 10 dollar beers when we see all the half naked woman serving them! Oops, did they spill it on themselves? And to be fair, since we all know the owners are FAIR, they will have six-pack thong wearing males serving the ladies. Laser shows? That the thing of the past! Now you will get half time shows of marching bands and barely legal cheerleaders. Did you know that Molson's is just a few dollars away from presenting us the Cabaret On Ice that we all KNOW will help our team win. And dancing bears? Yup! Just wait for it in the playoffs. And clowns. The Order of the Owners Brotherhood know that we NEED hockey clowns between AND DURING the game! After all, thing about how much fun that will be when clowns fall into the penalty box and mock fight the incarcerated!! If that's not the hockey spirit, then I don't know what is.

Dedicated half priced players and "never for the money" owners are going to give us what we crave for! I have seen the future of Hockey's Promised Land my friends and it looks like Rollerblades, born from the womb of Disneyworld and fathered by WWF.

While The Rocket is quietly weeping in his grave we should all get ready for the NEW NHL!

I would just love to hear what Trent (almost died while playing for the league minimum) McCleary or Saku (beat critical cancer and triumphantly returned) Koivu or Ted (vicious, disfiguring slash to the head but loved the game enough to coach at the highest level) Green would have to say about your little rant. There is heart and soul and love of the game. Why else would a guy like Todd Harkins try so hard in a stupid reality show just for the opportunity for ONE LAST kick at the can. Why else do you suppose that the losers in virtually every round of the playoffs are in tears?

[Cranky]

vinna said:

habsaddict said:

Ahh, the love of the game! Where players give it their all and leave nothing but blood, sweat and tears on the ice! We ALL know that players don't give a damn about the bling-bling, the spinners or their dogs. We ALL know that they play for nothing less then for the glory of the team and adulation of their beloved fans.

Do you remember the dedicated play of Ruzinsky? Do you remember how skilled he was at letting up JUST before he made contact with another player? Sometimes he even made a mistake and actually broke out in beads of sweat when he thought the CH stood for Czeck Hockey.

Do you remember the incredibly talented Kovalev? He showed that incredible talent of saying all the right things and coming up with ALL the right excuses while skating lazy eight circles every night....until.....until his agent told him that he was not getting any offers and if he did not show SOMETHING in the last few games, millions would slip away. Heck, he even showed us how much pain he take for the team when he dropped the puck, stick and tears from a pee-wee slash.

How about the team dedication from tough guy Poutine Poulin? Can you forget how Mr. Czerkawski flew into a rage every time the team lost? How about the blood curdling "all for the team" screams from L'Enfant Terrible Traverse? With guys like that, it's a miracle, that the Hab's did not form a dynasty! A MIRACLE I tell you! But we are NOT alone with such greatness. Look around the league and have nothing but hallelujahs for the Holik's, cheers for the Chelios and kudos for the Geurin's that define the NHL! "Semper Fi to the game" trumpets the NHLPA!

Well, if you think that was the good old times, then your in luck. More to follow in the NEW "cheaper but better" NHL!

Every dedicated fan should know that NHLPA players NO LONGER care for the money. They know that the owners had to bring the salaries down to mere millions. "SO WHAT!" the players say if they can no longer feed their dogs fillet mignon in silver dishes. The players will look at the 25 million dollar a year steroid addled baseball players make and just LAUGH at that. They will look at the latest 10 million dollar a season contract some overstretched NBA felon makes and they will just LAUGH at that too! After all, what's a few million when their is pride and love of the game?

You just KNOW that Modano, Chelios, Kovalev, Holik and all the "stars" will forget the lost millions and rededicate themselves to be the best they can be. You just know that players will no longer fake an injury or hold back! They will no longer nurse that back in the ski slopes or "houses of ill repute". Only hockey players, among in the universally overadulated, overpaid sports world, only hockey players will play for the love of the game.

And as for the owners? They will do everything possible to show us what the game is all about. We will not remember the $100 tickets and 10 dollar beers when we see all the half naked woman serving them! Oops, did they spill it on themselves? And to be fair, since we all know the owners are FAIR, they will have six-pack thong wearing males serving the ladies. Laser shows? That the thing of the past! Now you will get half time shows of marching bands and barely legal cheerleaders. Did you know that Molson's is just a few dollars away from presenting us the Cabaret On Ice that we all KNOW will help our team win. And dancing bears? Yup! Just wait for it in the playoffs. And clowns. The Order of the Owners Brotherhood know that we NEED hockey clowns between AND DURING the game! After all, thing about how much fun that will be when clowns fall into the penalty box and mock fight the incarcerated!! If that's not the hockey spirit, then I don't know what is.

Dedicated half priced players and "never for the money" owners are going to give us what we crave for! I have seen the future of Hockey's Promised Land my friends and it looks like Rollerblades, born from the womb of Disneyworld and fathered by WWF.

While The Rocket is quietly weeping in his grave we should all get ready for the NEW NHL!

I would just love to hear what Trent (almost died while playing for the league minimum) McCleary or Saku (beat critical cancer and triumphantly returned) Koivu or Ted (vicious, disfiguring slash to the head but loved the game enough to coach at the highest level) Green would have to say about your little rant. There is heart and soul and love of the game. Why else would a guy like Todd Harkins try so hard in a stupid reality show just for the opportunity for ONE LAST kick at the can. Why else do you suppose that the losers in virtually every round of the playoffs are in tears?

I do not disagree with the examples you have brought up but surely, you are not going to tell me that players care about the team as much as they use too. Can you imagine players like Richard's or Beliveau playing anywhere else just for a little more money?

There WAS a time when players only knew and cared for one team and would not even fraternize with anyone from the opposing team. Now, I feel it's like a big fraternity of millionaires who come together to discuss their newest contract rather then how "their" team will do.

Perhaps, in time a new generation will take over who care more about the sport but the team loyalty of old will never return. How could it when players go to the highest bidder.

As for Saku, we will see how loyal he is to the Hab's when his contract is up.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Life in the post-modern world is a female dog.

Any business owner would like their employees to work for as close to nothing as possible.

Don't want to pay—don't bid—and don't whine, especially when you have created the market.

Want loyalty—get a mutt, Jeff.

[TheHabsfan]

habsaddict said:

vinna said:

As for Saku, we will see how loyal he is to the Hab's when his contract is up.

My instincts tell me that Saku will go against the grain and not go for the money, but will be loyal to the organisation. With everything he and the team have gone through together, it has to mean something. Again, it's just my gutt, but I can't see it happening. If he goes, it will be because Gainey doesn't see him fitting in with his plans. But even there, Koivu showed in the last playoffs that he has what it takes to lead this team.

I hope he stays. If he doesn't, I would be very disappointed in myself, because that would mean that I read him wrong. I am usually a pretty good judge of character.

THF

[BadCompany]

habsaddict said:

I do not disagree with the examples you have brought up but surely, you are not going to tell me that players care about the team as much as they use too. Can you imagine players like Richard's or Beliveau playing anywhere else just for a little more money?

There WAS a time when players only knew and cared for one team and would not even fraternize with anyone from the opposing team. Now, I feel it's like a big fraternity of millionaires who come together to discuss their newest contract rather then how "their" team will do.

Perhaps, in time a new generation will take over who care more about the sport but the team loyalty of old will never return. How could it when players go to the highest bidder.

As for Saku, we will see how loyal he is to the Hab's when his contract is up.

Jean Beliveau never wanted to play for the Montreal Canadiens, they literally had to buy a league just to get his rights, and, quote “open the vault” to get him to sign a contract.

Jacques Plante signed to play for arch rivals the Leafs, the Bruins and the Rangers, before his contract was over.

Doug Harvey was instrumental in getting the NHLPA formed, because he didn’t feel the players were making enough money (he was right, of course, but still, he wanted more money).

Rejean Houle and JC Tremblay jumped to the WHA as soon as they were offered more money.

Larry Robinson left the Montreal Canadiens as a free agent, to sign with the LA Kings.

Even Guy Lafleur signed with the Nordiques, and then the Rangers, just to stick it to the Montreal organization.

For every generation you are going to find players who place loyalty above all else, and players who place money above all else. More of the latter than the former, no matter what the generation, methinks. Nowadays, in the world of corporate layoffs – err, sorry, re-balancing, Enron, Gordon Gecko and off-shore accounts, any player, or person, for that matter, who turns down a better opportunity out of loyalty to their employer, is more than likely to see that loyalty used against them, or simply ignored when push comes to shove. I should know – I turned down a better job offer, because I was told that said position would become available in my current company, that they needed me to get through the “rough stretch” and they were “counting on me to be part of the solution.” Six months later, their solution involved a conversation that began with “you are one of our most valued employees, but…”

Get what you can. You only live once, and with the exception of a handful of truly special players (like Steve Yzerman), 99% of the league will get dumped on their keesters, once a team deems them no longer valuable enough. Loyalty is a two-way street.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

badcompany said:

Rejean Houle and JC Tremblay jumped to the WHA as soon as they were offered more money.

I was more upset to see Marc Tardif jump ship.

Yep, nowadays Mr True-Blue can become Mr Pink-Slip in the blink of an eye.

It's the bottom-line that counts—after all, isn't that what the CBA squabble has been all about—who owns who, and for how much?

[Cockroach]

mrbozo said:

Life in the post-modern world is a female dog.

Any business owner would like their employees to work for as close to nothing as possible.

Don't want to pay—don't bid—and don't whine, especially when you have created the market.

Want loyalty—get a mutt, Jeff.

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? "

The whole world has lost its soul for profit.

[Forum Ghost]

Not sure if HA's gonna like hearing this...


ROENICK SOUNDS OFF

The National Hockey League and NHL Players' Association may be off for the weekend from CBA talks, but that didn't stop Philadelphia Flyers forward Jeremy Roenick from offering up another two cents on the topic, ripping the process, the upcoming deal and the fans.

"They could have listened to the players who had an idea of where this was going - myself, (Flyers teammate) Robert Esche, (Calgary Flames captain) Jarome Iginla and (St. Louis Blues defenceman) Chris Pronger," he explained.

"But in February, I didn't think the deal stood up."

Roenick was referring to his involvement with Esche, Pronger and Iginla as part of a group that reportedly tried to put forth new, independent ideas for a collective bargaining agreement. Several reports said that some of his fellow players were later upset and angry over his actions.

Roenick also said Saturday that the new CBA will be much less than what was offered to the Players' Association back in February.

"If we would have signed that deal in February, in terms of what we're getting now, we would have looked like heroes," he added.

"Right now we look like a bunch of idiots...The deal in February beats the (expletive) out of the deal we're gonna sign in July."


"It's unfortunate we had to go through a whole year to realize the (expletive) that was going on," said Roenick. "We've hurt our league, we've hurt the reputation of our league and the integrity of our league by sticking up for something that might not have been the right thing to do."

Roenick then made his case for NHL players and what he thought of public opinion up to this point.

"If people are going to sit and chastise pro athletes for being cocky - for being suck asses - they need to look at one thing and that's the deal we're going to be signing in about three weeks," he said.

"Pro athletes are not cocky. Pro athletes care about the game. Everybody out there who calls us spoiled because we play a game - they can kiss my ass."

Roenick went on to say that the players didn't want those so-called "fans" at the rink.

"I will say personally, personally, to everybody who calls us spoiled - you guys are just jealous... We're trying to get this thing back on the ice and make it better for the fans. If you don't realize that, then don't come. We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you in the stadium, we don't want you to watch hockey."

• full article

[jennypotatoes]

I don't know anyone else who is a hockey fanatic, so I'm only speaking for myself: Jeremy dear, that can be arranged.

And I'm sticking to my pre-lockout promise to never spend one more US $ that would benefit the NHL or the players in any way. Have a nice day.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

cockroach said:

mrbozo said:

Life in the post-modern world is a female dog.

Any business owner would like their employees to work for as close to nothing as possible.

Don't want to pay—don't bid—and don't whine, especially when you have created the market.

Want loyalty—get a mutt, Jeff.

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? "

Under the old CBA, on average, $1.8M.

The whole world has lost its soul for profit.

That's why it's called the Devil's Playground.

Render unto Jeremy (Jacobs/Roenick) that which is Jeremy's.

[Cranky]

He can kiss my ass too......after he finishes puckering up and kissing the bosses ass......

The player and Goodfornothing took a gamble that they were more important then the game. They LOST so now they yap about how much they "care". BULL! The ONLY reason they are signing is because they have no other choice. Actually, soon you will hear an entire chorus of "we care so we signed". It's as phony as the players "love" for this deal.

As for "We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you in the stadium, we don't want you to watch hockey". LOL! He PROVES my POINT of how self centered and arrogant some of them are. As for the "jealous" part? Am I or the average fan jealous about his half ass efforts most of them spit out for our hard earned money? Or is he ARROGANTLY referring to his money? Oh yea, slap the fans with his money, the same fans who pay his meal ticket. M-O-R-O-N!

Poor little Jeremy and company, reality b*tched slapped them.....


.

[Cranky]

jennypotatoes said:

I don't know anyone else who is a hockey fanatic, so I'm only speaking for myself: Jeremy dear, that can be arranged.

And I'm sticking to my pre-lockout promise to never spend one more US $ that would benefit the NHL or the players in any way. Have a nice day.

You mean that you are not ready to spend YOUR hard earned money to watch Jeremy and company waltz around the rink and yap about how they "love" the game? Didn't you get the memo that the NHL and NHLPA "own" hockey?

When players like Jeremy open their mouths, they do more damage then a million crankies cranking cranky threads.......

[Doc Holliday]

Roenick is right in so much that Goodenow mislead them, misinformed them and in the end made them look like fools since indeed the players will end up getting less than they would have in February which was already less they would have gotten back in August 2004... JR is a loud mouth but he just echoed what most observers feel. NHL players have, for the most part, acted like a bunch of brainless sheeps in that process, blindly following the Union stance without questioning if it made sense.

[BadCompany]

What Roenick lacks in tact and political correctness, he more than makes up for with truth and honesty. He’s right – the NHLPA could have gotten a better deal, perhaps should have gotten a better deal, and in the process they are giving up more than any other sports union in the history of sports. Perhaps more than any other union, period. Heck, they gave up more with their 24% rollback offer that was so readily scoffed at. But for all the wailing about how the players could have, would have, should have gotten a better deal, who here thinks that NHL owners are in better shape now than they were 15 months ago? Who here thinks this lockout, even with the union-crushing deal at the end, is going to be beneficial to the league and its masters? Who here thinks the league would have been better off negotiating off of the players 24% rollback offer, and come up with something to save the season then? Heck, one team is already for sale, before the CBA has even been signed, because they don’t think they can make any money in the new league. And that’s a supposedly good market team.

The players are going to take a beating when they come back, but they were not the only people responsible for this mess. I betcha if you back Bill Wirtz or Jeremy Jacobs into a corner and ask them if they are all that concerned that people think they are greedy, malicious hard-liners only interested in their bottom line and not the fans, you’d get a similar “they can kiss my a**” comment. The owners just aren’t as visible, and lets face it, who really cares what Craig Leiopold has to say, or Philip Anshutz, or Mr. Samuelli, who’s first name I don’t even know. Who here can name more than 10 owners? Both sides have shown an appalling lack of concern for the everyday Joe Fan, but its going to be the players who are going to take bear the brunt of the fans anger.

Yes, the players could have gotten a better deal. But so could the owners. There are no winners here.

[Doc Holliday]

Owners are certainly worst off now than they were last December but their bet (and I agree with it) was to sacrifice now in order to get the long term gain. We all complained how the owners had no resolve back in 1994 and were easily scared into promptly signing a deal because they were afraid of losing a season... We all saw the effect of it as history showed us how that turned out to be a costly mistake (for them). It was clear the owners wouldn't have walked into the same trap in December 2004.

BC is right that this 24% cut was an unprecedented rollback. But then again we must look at it in its context, be it that a) this was never required by the NHL to begin with and b) since the offer sheet contained no serious salary dragging mechanism, it was not gonna stick. Everyone could smell how this offer was a gross trap and it turned out to be one of the many tactical mistakes of Goodenow who believed he could, once more, go around the owners. He ended up simply confirming the huge necessary salary adjustment and put a number on it. A number greater than everyone thought...

Goodenow decided to take his troop down a path that could lead nowhere but towards a complete, almost condition less, capitulation from the union. I find this unfortunate because IF this deal turns out to favor the owners too much, this battle will have to be fought again.

The owners will get the deal they wanted from the get go but the players seemed to have added nothing to the process than they could have last summer. I believe this is what infuriates JR and so many fans.

The biggest task that awaits the NHL will now be to convince the fans that the players are NOT the careless, greedy, spoiled brat that this process made them out to be but that they are really the dedicated, big hearted, good guys that the fans thought they were back before the 1990's because BC is right, who cares if Wirtz and Jacobs are the worst financial sharks, crooked SOB that one can imagine... What will matter will be to shine a very tarnished player's image.

[Boston_Habs]

docholliday said:

The biggest task that awaits the NHL will now be to convince the fans that the players are NOT the careless, greedy, spoiled brat that this process made them out to be but that they are really the dedicated, big hearted, good guys that the fans thought they were back before the 1990's because BC is right, who cares if Wirtz and Jacobs are the worst financial sharks, crooked SOB that one can imagine... What will matter will be to shine a very tarnished player's image.

As a life long Boston Red Sox fan I realized a long time ago that the teams means far more to the fans in New England than it does to the players or the owners who write the checks. That's just the way it is and it's a good thing because if the 2004 World Series champs carried the burdens of 1975, 1978, and 1986 around their necks, there is no way the Sox would have climbed out of the 0-3 hole to the Yankees. They were playing for themselves and their teamates and pleasing the fans in Boston was like the cherry on top.

So I'm not worried about how the players will be perceived coming out of the lockout and neither should anyone else. They were trying to cut the best deal (no problem there) and allowed themselves to be led down the garden path by Goodenow, who IMO is reason #1, 2 and 3 why this ordeal went on so long. Just a supreme miscalculation on his part.

My main concern is the quality of the game itself and making sure the product on the ice is the best it can be. Oh sure, the NHL is going to have to do some serious groveling and PR to get make the fans feel loved, but I don't care much about that - I just want to watch hockey again.

[Cranky]

docholliday said:

Roenick is right in so much that Goodenow mislead them, misinformed them and in the end made them look like fools since indeed the players will end up getting less than they would have in February which was already less they would have gotten back in August 2004... JR is a loud mouth but he just echoed what most observers feel. NHL players have, for the most part, acted like a bunch of brainless sheeps in that process, blindly following the Union stance without questioning if it made sense.

Sorry Doc, but I don't agree that they are/were brainless sheep. This is all about GREED but what the players seriously miscalculated is the owners and the fans resolve. Goodenough is not negotiating from a cave and he is not an idiot, in fact, some of his tactics were pretty good. He represents the majority of the players but like I said, he thought he had more "power" then he really does.

[Cranky]

badcompany said:

What Roenick lacks in tact and political correctness, he more than makes up for with truth and honesty. He’s right – the NHLPA could have gotten a better deal, perhaps should have gotten a better deal, and in the process they are giving up more than any other sports union in the history of sports. Perhaps more than any other union, period. Heck, they gave up more with their 24% rollback offer that was so readily scoffed at. But for all the wailing about how the players could have, would have, should have gotten a better deal, who here thinks that NHL owners are in better shape now than they were 15 months ago? Who here thinks this lockout, even with the union-crushing deal at the end, is going to be beneficial to the league and its masters? Who here thinks the league would have been better off negotiating off of the players 24% rollback offer, and come up with something to save the season then? Heck, one team is already for sale, before the CBA has even been signed, because they don’t think they can make any money in the new league. And that’s a supposedly good market team.

The players are going to take a beating when they come back, but they were not the only people responsible for this mess. I betcha if you back Bill Wirtz or Jeremy Jacobs into a corner and ask them if they are all that concerned that people think they are greedy, malicious hard-liners only interested in their bottom line and not the fans, you’d get a similar “they can kiss my a**” comment. The owners just aren’t as visible, and lets face it, who really cares what Craig Leiopold has to say, or Philip Anshutz, or Mr. Samuelli, who’s first name I don’t even know. Who here can name more than 10 owners? Both sides have shown an appalling lack of concern for the everyday Joe Fan, but its going to be the players who are going to take bear the brunt of the fans anger.

Yes, the players could have gotten a better deal. But so could the owners. There are no winners here.

Yes there are winners here. The HAB's and their fans. I don't know about you but I am throrougly sick and tired of the Leafs and Rangers buying their way into anything they wanted. Now, with the Hab's and their fans can reap rewards by having one of the BEST scouting and management team.

And YES, both side HAVE shown an appalling disregard, never mind disregard, call it it what it really is, CONTEMPT for the average Joe fan.

BTW, here is the owners list......

Lemeaux
Wirtz
George Gillette
Jeremy Jacobs
Spiro Angelatos
Melnyk
Samueli
Ilitch
Ted Leonsis
Peter Karmanos
The Devil (Toronto)
Golisano
Scrooge (part owner in Boston)
Midas (New York)
Hicks

That's all I can remember without looking them up! LOL

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Not greed, but power.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Hold 'em or fold 'em.

No guts, no glory.

Roll dem bones.

Et cetera.

For me, it will have ended far too early.

So it goes.

"Babies full of rabies."

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

The Leafs are no worse off than any other team. They can easily afford to buy out whatever over-priced players they want to on their current roster, And you can count on them being very active in fishing out from the over-stocked pool of free agents, Despite the fantasies of blindered Habs fans, there will be a goodly number of free agents that will give Big Smoke money serious consideration.

It is a mistake to laugh at them and think that they cannot do as good, or quicker, a job of rebuilding as the Habs can.

[Doc Holliday]

habsaddict said:

Yes there are winners here. The HAB's and their fans. I don't know about you but I am throrougly sick and tired of the Leafs and Rangers buying their way into anything they wanted. Now, with the Hab's and their fans can reap rewards by having one of the BEST scouting and management team.

While the Leafs got a reputation for paying aging stars too well, one can certainly make a case for the HABS being one of the worst team for overpaying rather mediocre players and frankly the only pick from Savard (as a HABS) so far that really made a great impression in the NHL is Komisarek. The rest of 'hem range from bust in the making, to work in progress to promising. I think you're crowing us a bit too quick Cranky.

I'm confident in Gainey but I wonder if anyone really knows what's ahead... The whole league will have to adjust to the new CBA.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

The new CBA will encourage teams like the Leafs and Rangers to spend more on beefing up their scouting departments (and relying on them), rather than going for the quick free-agent fix. That's ultimately what we want, isn't it?

[BadCompany]

habsaddict said:

Yes there are winners here. The HAB's and their fans. I don't know about you but I am throrougly sick and tired of the Leafs and Rangers buying their way into anything they wanted. Now, with the Hab's and their fans can reap rewards by having one of the BEST scouting and management team.

How long will that last though? Lets see, the Leafs have revenues of what? $100-120 million? With a salary cap of say, $38 million, they'd have an extra what, $15-20 million, to spend just to reach 50% of their revenue? I wonder where that money will go? Perhaps I'm being pessimistic, but I don't think Ken Hitchcock is going to be coaching in Edmonton anytime soon.

Meanwhile, back at the phone booth, Uncle George claims he can't spend more than $35 million, just to break even. How long before our vaunted scouting staff ends up in greener pastures?

habsaddict said:

And YES, both side HAVE shown an appalling disregard, never mind disregard, call it it what it really is, CONTEMPT for the average Joe fan.

BTW, here is the owners list......

Lemeaux
Wirtz
George Gillette
Jeremy Jacobs
Spiro Angelatos
Melnyk
Samueli
Ilitch
Ted Leonsis
Peter Karmanos
The Devil (Toronto)
Golisano
Scrooge (part owner in Boston)
Midas (New York)
Hicks

That's all I can remember without looking them up! LOL

Bah. One of those you listed is merely a figment of your imagination, a fairy tale moderators tell their children to keep them in line (Spiro), another has already sold his team (Lemieux, supposedly), a third you only got because I mentioned his name (Samuelli), and the Devil, Scooge, and King Midas are all fictional characters, much like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Neil Armstrong. I dismiss your list with a haughty wave of my hand.

[Cranky]

badcompany said:

.....Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Neil Armstrong. I dismiss your list with a haughty wave of my hand.

Are you going to start the Santa Claus debate AGAIN? You BETTER believe in Santa Claus because that's the only way you are going to get Angelina Jolie stuffed in your stocking.......

Back to hockey......

I can see ALL the teams spending more money on their scouting and management staff. Why is it that very successful and otherwise brilliant man decide to get stupid when it comes to "responsible" spending for the teams??

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habsaddict said:

I can see ALL the teams spending more money on their scouting and management staff. Why is it that very successful and otherwise brilliant man decide to get stupid when it comes to "responsible" spending for the teams??

Because they fall prey to one or more of the following formulas:

(ego + greed) x money = Stanley Cup

arena + name player(s) at any cost + suckers in the seats = profit

Bettman = promisory note of financial windfall, whether in the desert or in the swamp

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

badcompany said:

How long will that last though? Lets see, the Leafs have revenues of what? $100-120 million? With a salary cap of say, $38 million, they'd have an extra what, $15-20 million, to spend just to reach 50% of their revenue? I wonder where that money will go? Perhaps I'm being pessimistic, but I don't think Ken Hitchcock is going to be coaching in Edmonton anytime soon.

Ontario teachers (and their pension fund) will absolutely love the salary cap—there will be a surge of Maple Leaf indoctrination in classrooms throughout the province.

On a different note: Apparently, under the new CBA, one of the provisos for allowing teams to exercise unlimited 2/3 buyouts of players will be that the bought out players will not be permitted to re-sign with the team that bought them out.