Hainsey to Columbus

[insomnius]

mrbozo said:

insomnius said:

Huselius is a discipline problem as well as a highly skilled soft unmotivated player - other than the discipline sounds like Ribeiro

Sounds like the guy we just lost on waivers.

Well on his behalf I will say that Hainsey has never been arrested for sexual misconduct - I'd say the degree of indiscipline is higher with Huselius :0

[olematelot]

Hainseys'gone, so what! What the heck did he ever do for the team. IMO he was never going to make it with us anyway. Good riddence

[CentreHice]

That's the biz. Hainsey had every opportunity to impress the Habs. It took an injury to Souray, a suspension to Markov, and a family issue with Komisarek for Bob to put in a call.

Remember, none of us saw the Kovalev move coming in 2004. I assume Gainey has more than one drawing board to go back to. Although, cap room is quite a pylon.

Man, a win against the Sens would defy all logic today.

[Boston_Habs]

forumghost2 said:

First Hossa and now Hainsey... the first round of the 2000 NHL Draft is officially a bust for the Habs.

Yup. Hossa I can get over but Hainsey's failure hurts more given the total lack of depth at the position in the organization. We literally have NOBODY on the horizon who projects to be top 4 calibre on the blueline.

This is where character evaluation is so important at the draft and we maye have made the same mistake twice with Kostitsyn. Hainsey may turn it around but after 5 years he has shown himself to be not much more than a spoiled pretty boy from Connecticut who doesn't have either the smarts or the character to make the most of his God-given talents.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

We just brought up Cote!

[HabSolute]

machabby said:

Habs will pick up Thibault from waivers and trade Theodore for Hainsey, saving ton's of money which they can then use to sign Theo Fleury.

Now THAT was funny ;D

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

bostonhabs said:

forumghost2 said:

First Hossa and now Hainsey... the first round of the 2000 NHL Draft is officially a bust for the Habs.

Yup. Hossa I can get over but Hainsey's failure hurts more given the total lack of depth at the position in the organization. We literally have NOBODY on the horizon who projects to be top 4 calibre on the blueline.

This is where character evaluation is so important at the draft and we maye have made the same mistake twice with Kostitsyn. Hainsey may turn it around but after 5 years he has shown himself to be not much more than a spoiled pretty boy from Connecticut who doesn't have either the smarts or the character to make the most of his God-given talents.

Lack of smarts and character really hurts, especially to former players who had the smarts and character but lacked the God-given talents and physical assets.

[Deleted]

When it rains, it drops anvils, too.

Souray = injured;
Markov = suspended;
Komo = personal leave;

We're going to try and fill 3 spots with 2 players: Hainsey (gone) and Cote.

That leaves us 1 d-man short.

God. Why do the Forum Ghosts hate us?

[Bobs_HABit]

machabby said:

bobshabit said:

Again, I like the rule. It's all about smart management. We lose out on this one, maybe the next time we are on the other side. Like I said in the other thread, Gainey will think long and hard the next time a similar situation comes up.

It was terrible asset management on our end. To make matters worse in hindsight, did we really expect to go the entire season with just the original 7 d-man? Injuries, suspensions, etc...things happen. To not think we would need our supposed 8th best d-man at some point is sticking your head in the sand and hoping for a miracle.

As an example, both Toronto and Boston have each used 9 already this season.

Now what?!?

Are you suggesting that we should have gone with 9 defensemen and only 1 extra forward? What would we have done when we had all those injuries to forwards? And what's the sense in having Hainsey sitting in the pressbox for weeks on end?

This rule unfairly (and perhaps illegally) caps minor league salaries, impedes player development, sends the best young players to Europe, and increases the pressure on NHL players to play hurt. In the words of Jay Sherman, "It stinks!"

I did not mean to imply that we go with 9 d-man. What I meant was you should have someone as your 8th and 9th who is easily recalled a la Collicavo for the Laffs. A team should be prepared that if the need arises, help is only a phone call away (AHL). We were in a position once Hainsey was demoted that we had only 7 d-men available ALL season long, barring a deal. I would imagine the front office felt differently but I'm sorry, like I said, this was a huge mistake. I would love to see the records of an NHL season where the Habs went an entire season using only 7 d-men. I'm sure it happened but I would wager not in the last 10 years.

Your other point re:forwards. Well that was eay. Zhogin could go back and forth all year long, no waivers. We've already seen (was it Lapierre?), Locke is available, Kostitsyn in a pinch. In nets we had Danis available? Where was our defensive depth?

You lost me on the last point, who were the great young players from NA heading oversees. What NHL players are feeling the pressure to play hurt?

[TheHabsfan]

Maybe Bob wanted to make Ron happy and give him a second chance with another team?

Looking for a bright side here....

I refuse to believe that Bob didn't plan for this to happen. He doesn't make decisions lightly. Everything is weighed carefully. He isn't a big gambler which makes me believe that he didn't simply take a chance that Hainsey would clear. Something is afoot! Maybe even aleg!

THF

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

thehabsfan said:

Something is afoot! Maybe even aleg!

THF

Perhaps, but right now we could use a hand.

[TheHabsfan]

mrbozo said:

thehabsfan said:

Something is afoot! Maybe even aleg!

THF

Perhaps, but right now we could use a hand.

So far, it would seem that we've only received the finger!

THF

[HabSolute]

thehabsfan said:

mrbozo said:

Perhaps, but right now we could use a hand.

So far, it would seem that we've only received the finger!

THF

LOL Too Funny, You guys made my afternoon

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

thehabsfan said:

mrbozo said:

Perhaps, but right now we could use a hand.

So far, it would seem that we've only received the finger!

THF

The Fickle Finger of Fate.

[MC Habber]

bobshabit said:

machabby said:

Are you suggesting that we should have gone with 9 defensemen and only 1 extra forward? What would we have done when we had all those injuries to forwards? And what's the sense in having Hainsey sitting in the pressbox for weeks on end?

This rule unfairly (and perhaps illegally) caps minor league salaries, impedes player development, sends the best young players to Europe, and increases the pressure on NHL players to play hurt. In the words of Jay Sherman, "It stinks!"

I did not mean to imply that we go with 9 d-man. What I meant was you should have someone as your 8th and 9th who is easily recalled a la Collicavo for the Laffs. A team should be prepared that if the need arises, help is only a phone call away (AHL). We were in a position once Hainsey was demoted that we had only 7 d-men available ALL season long, barring a deal. I would imagine the front office felt differently but I'm sorry, like I said, this was a huge mistake. I would love to see the records of an NHL season where the Habs went an entire season using only 7 d-men. I'm sure it happened but I would wager not in the last 10 years.

Your other point re:forwards. Well that was eay. Zhogin could go back and forth all year long, no waivers. We've already seen (was it Lapierre?), Locke is available, Kostitsyn in a pinch. In nets we had Danis available? Where was our defensive depth?

You lost me on the last point, who were the great young players from NA heading oversees. What NHL players are feeling the pressure to play hurt?

But we wouldn't have been able to recall Zhogin without sending someone else down. We only had the roster spot for Lapierre because Ivanans' was on the IR/sent down.

With minor league salaries here effectively capped at 75k, players will head to Europe. Some already have and many more will likely follow. And with no replacements that teams can call up, except guys not good/experienced enough to earn more than 75k, NHL players will be under more pressure to play hurt.

[Ryan]

And just to save everyone some time, Hainsey will score and/or get 2 assists in his first game for the Jackets.

"Gainey's an idiot!"

"Hainsey will win the Norris!"

"Streit was a minus 2 tonight!"

"Pierre McGuire's a freaking idiot!"

Ok...so that last one has nothing to do with Hainsey, but it will be muttered many times for the rest of the year ;D

[TheCaper]

mrbozo said:

Every club is in the same leaky boat. Ya places yer bet and...

No. Some teams have a boat that doesn’t leak. Don’t expect to see the Ottawa Senators lose a 1st round skater to waivers any time soon. If they pick the wrong guy, they trade him while he still has value, otherwise, they develop that player in the NHL. We blew it with Hainsey and Hossa, simple as that.

[HFTO]

How long were the Habs supposed to wait for Hainsey?.........I guess that will be answered shortly.
As badly as I wanted him to make the Habs from what I've seen we didn't lose much besides potential and its up to him now to prove the Habs wrong.
The unfortunate part is this team is woefully thin on D an area which for Bo is a no brainer to address.
As far as Hueselius picking him up would basically replace Hossa who isn't lighting it up in New York,and as we've discussed were loaded with these types of players.
December is a tough month so it will be interesting to see if Bo looks to make a move should the Habs start to slide.
HFTO

[Forum Ghost]

thecaper said:

We blew it with Hainsey and Hossa, simple as that.

One of the most important things that Savard and Timmins look for is character and work ethic. With Hossa and Hainsey (two players who were drafted before the arrival of Savard and Timmins) character and work ethic were always question marks instead of certainties. Both players had talent, no question, but their heads weren't screwed on right and after five years of developing them they're gone from our organization.

Who knows if they'll pan out on their respective teams, but, personally, I'm happy that our days of holding our breath at training camp for these two guys, are over. Yes, there is a hole on our defence depth chart, but, while he was with the Habs, Hainsey didn't seem to be in rush to fill it anyways.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

forumghost2 said:

thecaper said:

We blew it with Hainsey and Hossa, simple as that.

One of the most important things that Savard and Timmins look for is character and work ethic. With Hossa and Hainsey (two players who were drafted before the arrival of Savard and Timmins) character and work ethic were always question marks instead of certainties. Both players had talent, no question, but their heads weren't screwed on right and after five years of developing them they're gone from our organization.

Who knows if they'll pan out on their respective teams, but, personally, I'm happy that our days of holding our breath at training camp for these two guys, are over. Yes, there is a hole on our defence depth chart, but, while he was with the Habs, Hainsey didn't seem to be in rush to fill it anyways.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hainsey in Hamilton was the top scoring d-man and second on the team. He also had the second worst +/- (-10) on the team, and the worst for a d-man. Those schizophrenic stats pretty well sum up Hainsey's tenure with the Habs for me.

Here's something that looks very familiar. Hossa - 3-5-8 in his first 9 games; 2-1-3 in his last 16 (including 0-1-1 in his last 8).

You win some, you lose some.

2000
13 D Ron Hainsey
16 L Marcel Hossa
78 W Jozef Balej *
79 D Tyler Hanchuck
109 Johan Eneqvist
114 C Christian Larrivee
145 D Ryan Glenn
172 C Scott Selig
182 D Petr Chvojka
243 G Joni Puurula
275 D Jonathan Gauthier
* Kovalev

2001
7 D Mike Komisarek
25 R Alexander Perezhogin
37 W Duncan Milroy
71 C Tomas Plekanec
109 D Martti Jarventie
171 C Eric Himelfarb
203 D Andrew Archer
266 W Viktor Ujcik

[PTH]

bobshabit said:

I did not mean to imply that we go with 9 d-man. What I meant was you should have someone as your 8th and 9th who is easily recalled a la Collicavo for the Laffs. A team should be prepared that if the need arises, help is only a phone call away (AHL). We were in a position once Hainsey was demoted that we had only 7 d-men available ALL season long, barring a deal. I would imagine the front office felt differently but I'm sorry, like I said, this was a huge mistake. I would love to see the records of an NHL season where the Habs went an entire season using only 7 d-men. I'm sure it happened but I would wager not in the last 10 years.

Your other point re:forwards. Well that was eay. Zhogin could go back and forth all year long, no waivers. We've already seen (was it Lapierre?), Locke is available, Kostitsyn in a pinch. In nets we had Danis available? Where was our defensive depth?

I think you have a good point, but to a certain extent, I think the problem is that Hainsey was expected to make it, and Streit was supposed to be the depth. Yet Hainsey didn't show much, so we kept Streit....

I think the Habs have been had, plain and simple. Still, the good side is that Columbus has to give him a chance in the NHL, and we apparently get dibs after that if they want to send him down, so that if he's servicable we might get him back. And at some point Columbus will get its injured back on the ice.

Let's keep in mind that we got Bouillon back from Nashville that way.

The annoying part to me is the 205 000$ cap room that we've lost.

[TheCaper]

forumghost2 said:

thecaper said:

We blew it with Hainsey and Hossa, simple as that.

One of the most important things that Savard and Timmins look for is character and work ethic. With Hossa and Hainsey (two players who were drafted before the arrival of Savard and Timmins) character and work ethic were always question marks instead of certainties. Both players had talent, no question, but their heads weren't screwed on right and after five years of developing them they're gone from our organization.

Who knows if they'll pan out on their respective teams, but, personally, I'm happy that our days of holding our breath at training camp for these two guys, are over. Yes, there is a hole on our defence depth chart, but, while he was with the Habs, Hainsey didn't seem to be in rush to fill it anyways.

FG, if Savard felt that Hainsey and Hossa had character issues, then why didn’t he trade them when their value was high? If he had packaged Hackett with Hainsey and Hossa in 02-03, we could have gotten a darn good player or two in return.

[TheCaper]

mrbozo said:

You win some, you lose some.

No. “You win some, you lose some” is the mark of a .500 team. A contender wins a lot more than they lose.

It will be interesting to see what Gainey does with Kostitsyn. Gainey can sit around with his fingers crossed or he can act. If Gainey feels that Kostitsyn has a future with this team, then he needs to get him some NHL experience this year, otherwise he might as well trade him before it’s too late.

[jkr]

thecaper said:

mrbozo said:

Every club is in the same leaky boat. Ya places yer bet and...

No. Some teams have a boat that doesn’t leak. Don’t expect to see the Ottawa Senators lose a 1st round skater to waivers any time soon. If they pick the wrong guy, they trade him while he still has value, otherwise, they develop that player in the NHL. We blew it with Hainsey and Hossa, simple as that.

When did Hossa & Hainsey have any real value? Hainsey cleared waivers once already this year & he isn't making a heck of a lot of money.

[jkr]

thecaper said:

forumghost2 said:

One of the most important things that Savard and Timmins look for is character and work ethic. With Hossa and Hainsey (two players who were drafted before the arrival of Savard and Timmins) character and work ethic were always question marks instead of certainties. Both players had talent, no question, but their heads weren't screwed on right and after five years of developing them they're gone from our organization.

Who knows if they'll pan out on their respective teams, but, personally, I'm happy that our days of holding our breath at training camp for these two guys, are over. Yes, there is a hole on our defence depth chart, but, while he was with the Habs, Hainsey didn't seem to be in rush to fill it anyways.

FG, if Savard felt that Hainsey and Hossa had character issues, then why didn’t he trade them when their value was high? If he had packaged Hackett with Hainsey and Hossa in 02-03, we could have gotten a darn good player or two in return.

Says who? You have absolutely no way of knowing this.

If they character issues in Montreal, they will have character issues everywhere.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

thecaper said:

mrbozo said:

You win some, you lose some.

No. “You win some, you lose some” is the mark of a .500 team. A contender wins a lot more than they lose.

I was referring specifically to the draft. All teams win some and lose some drafts.

The NYI were one of, if not the best, drafting teams of the '90s. Has it made them a winner?

There's more to building a team than just drafting well. Shrewd trades. Bang-per-buck free agent signings. Smart waiver wire pickups. Even training camp walk-ons.

Then of course we move on to the development and management of one's players. Coaching at both minor and major league levels. Proper character assessment and motivation based on same.

And more.

And some plain dumb luck, such as a Michael Ryder DIY effort.

No team gets the above 100% right. However, Gainey et al are doing most of it right. That's what builds a sustainable contender.

It will be interesting to see what Gainey does with Kostitsyn. Gainey can sit around with his fingers crossed or he can act. If Gainey feels that Kostitsyn has a future with this team, then he needs to get him some NHL experience this year, otherwise he might as well trade him before it’s too late.

Kostitsyn's problem areas have been identified and are being addressed. According to the latest posts in the "Bust" thread in the Prospects forum he is improving.

I don't see Gainey throwing a 20-year-old kid with Kostitsyn's upside out with the bath water. If he is offered a deal he can't refuse, that's another matter.

Patience is another key to success.

[Cranky]

Gainey KNOWS that puck moving, good skating defensman are in HIGH DEMAND, yet he places Hainey on waivers. Remember, there was no "do or die" need to do it and doing it had consequences. Losing Hainsey for nothing is just a plain STUPID move that only a dummy can make.

You guys still want to keep Gainey on a pedestal? Don't say I didn't warn you.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habsaddict said:

Gainey KNOWS that puck moving, good skating defensman are in HIGH DEMAND, yet he places Hainey on waivers. Remember, there was no "do or die" need to do it and doing it had consequences. Losing Hainsey for nothing is just a plain STUPID move that only a dummy can make.

Hainsey was an emergency call-up due to 3 regular d-men being out. It wasn't as if he was being called up because his All-Star calibre play was bumping someone off the big team's roster.

What's stupid about attempting to sneak a guy through waivers who cleared waivers on the way down? A calculated risk IMO. Obviously there wasn't much to choose from in Hamilton.

Good luck to Hainsey, and good luck to Columbus!

Now Côté, a young guy who was signed as a free agent, gets to show his gratitude and his aptitude.

You guys still want to keep Gainey on a pedestal? Don't say I didn't warn you.

I want to keep him as the guiding hand behind the Habs—not that I think he's going anywhere any time soon.

[Cranky]

mrbozo said:

What's stupid about attempting to sneak a guy through waivers who cleared waivers on the way down? A calculated risk IMO. Obviously there wasn't much to choose from in Hamilton.

How can it possibly be "sneaky" when EVERY OTHER GM is informed about it? There was no way in hell Hainsey would clear waivers. NONE. The fact is that he was picked up by the VERY FIRST team that could. Calculated risk on the obvious?

Now we are EVEN WEAKER defensively in Hamilton and we have NOTHING to show for loosing an asset. NOTHING. At the VERY LEAST, leave him in Hamilton to finish the year. It's not like we have defenseman coming out of the woodwork.

Anyway.....

I'm just royally pissed off right now. And I thought that it was only Houle the Dummy who would pull crap like this......

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habsaddict said:

mrbozo said:

What's stupid about attempting to sneak a guy through waivers who cleared waivers on the way down? A calculated risk IMO. Obviously there wasn't much to choose from in Hamilton.

How can it possibly be "sneaky" when EVERY OTHER GM is informed about it? There was no way in hell Hainsey would clear waivers. NONE. The fact is that he was picked up by the VERY FIRST team that could. Calculated risk on the obvious?

Well then, how was it that he cleared waivers on the way down?

Now we are EVEN WEAKER defensively in Hamilton and we have NOTHING to show for loosing an asset. NOTHING. At the VERY LEAST, leave him in Hamilton to finish the year. It's not like we have defenseman coming out of the woodwork.

I think it's a safe bet that the Hamilton situation will be taken care of.

Anyway.....

I'm just royally pissed off right now. And I thought that it was only Houle the Dummy who would pull crap like this......

It's your aneurysm.