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Post by ropoflu on Dec 30, 2006 14:48:05 GMT -5
A poster wrote that Carlos is playing on his off wing on that third line. Trading Ryder, would free up a space on the right, allowing Carlos to move there. Lineup would look like this: Higgins - Koivu - Kovalev Samsonov - Mr. X - Perezhogin Latendresse - Bonk - Johnsson Begin - Plekanec - Streit Depth at center: Murray, Lapierre, Gabovsky Depth on the wings: Murray, Downey, Kostsitsyn I got nothing against Ryder, but something obviously ain't right in our lineup right now. So I figured Ryder could be traded. Can a legit second line winger fetch us a decent second line center? Could we, somehow trade for this guy?  or this one?  or maybe a 6'5" project?  Photos: Mikko Koivu, Jarret Stoll, Josef Vasicek. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 30, 2006 15:29:07 GMT -5
...how about a young guy that's 6''2', 200lbs, a great skater with good hands that plays with tons of energy grit and character. ...and best of all, he could be had for free:   Lapierre's upsides are very much unknown at this point and I'd hate to add a guy that would stall him even more than he is now. While some peg him at a 4th or 3rd liner, he showed us a heck of a lot more than this. We have to remember that Higgins was advertise as a somewhat defensive player heading to the 3rd line, certainly not a 40 goals power winger. Frankly speaking he's shown to be not only better than Downey/Murray but as well more usefull and involved than Plekanecs. Given that they chose to send down a guy who was clearly better than a lot of the vets on the team, I don't see Gainey/Carbo pulling the trigger on any trades unless we hit a severe tailspin or Koivu goes down. I don't know what to think of Ryder at this point. Sometimes I feel he's a great young player to have around, sometime I think he can't wait for his contract to run out so he can leave. If we were to trade him, I would try to get a very good young dmen. |
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Post by ropoflu on Dec 30, 2006 15:50:03 GMT -5
...how about a young guy that's 6''2', 200lbs, a great skater with good hands that plays with tons of energy grit and character. ...and best of all, he could be had for free: Lapierre's upsides are very much unknown at this point and I'd hate to add a guy that would stall him even more than he is now. While some peg him at a 4th or 3rd liner, he showed us a heck of a lot more than this. We have to remember that Higgins was advertise as a somewhat defensive player heading to the 3rd line, certainly not a 40 goals power winger. Frankly speaking he's shown to be not only better than Downey/Murray but as well more usefull and involved than Plekanecs. Given that they chose to send down a guy who was clearly better than a lot of the vets on the team, I don't see Gainey/Carbo pulling the trigger on any trades unless we hit a severe tailspin or Koivu goes down. I don't know what to think of Ryder at this point. Sometimes I feel he's a great young player to have around, sometime I think he can't wait for his contract to run out so he can leave. If we were to trade him, I would try to get a very good young dmen. I hope God (or else) will forgive me, but I honestly wish for an injury (or better a trade) so we can call Lapierre up. About him playing on a scoring line. I'm not convinced he has the playmaking abilities to be there, but it could be tried. His feistiness could certainly inspired our russian enigmas. As for Ryder, he is the last renmant of the "3 1/2 amigos" clique (as far as I know, which isn't very far). While he's talented, I don't see him with the Habs in the long run. So we might as well trade him while he's has some value. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 30, 2006 16:15:31 GMT -5
I hope God (or else) will forgive me, but I honestly wish for an injury (or better a trade) so we can call Lapierre up. . I find myself wishing the same thing... Dangerous wish I know... About him playing on a scoring line. I'm not convinced he has the playmaking abilities to be there, but it could be tried. His feistiness could certainly inspired our russian enigmas. I'd rather see him on a "4th line" with Lats and Begin getting more icetime than our current talented 2nd line . Not sure what his upside is but from what I saw, I kept saying to myself that is not a career 4th liner... As for Ryder, he is the last renmant of the "3 1/2 amigos" clique (as far as I know, which isn't very far). While he's talented, I don't see him with the Habs in the long run. So we might as well trade him while he's has some value. You know what I think about the 3 Amigos thingy... The team was made of cliques... Were they any worst in hanging together than the well known Koivu/Rivet/Zednik/Bulis clique ? Any worst than Markov who did not say a word to Komi (not a word) during all of last season... The clique busting is much more a reflection of Gainey/Carbo applying a new philosophy to the room than changing some players. Ryder is often seen on the bench joking around with this guy or that guy, remember his face when Latendresse scored his very first goal? He seems like a happy-go-lucky kinda guy. If we trade him, I sure as heck hope it's not in a Ribeiro manner (i.e. a trade just to ship him out) but rather something that would clearly make the team better. As a personnal preference though, I'd definitely ship out some Euro content (Pleks, Sammy, Perez, Kots) before touching him though... |
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Post by ropoflu on Dec 30, 2006 17:14:33 GMT -5
I hope God (or else) will forgive me, but I honestly wish for an injury (or better a trade) so we can call Lapierre up. . I find myself wishing the same thing... Dangerous wish I know... I'd rather see him on a "4th line" with Lats and Begin getting more icetime than our current talented 2nd line . Not sure what his upside is but from what I saw, I kept saying to myself that is not a career 4th liner... As for Ryder, he is the last renmant of the "3 1/2 amigos" clique (as far as I know, which isn't very far). While he's talented, I don't see him with the Habs in the long run. So we might as well trade him while he's has some value. You know what I think about the 3 Amigos thingy... The team was made of cliques... Were they any worst in hanging together than the well known Koivu/Rivet/Zednik/Bulis clique ? Any worst than Markov who did not say a word to Komi (not a word) during all of last season... The clique busting is much more a reflection of Gainey/Carbo applying a new philosophy to the room than changing some players. Ryder is often seen on the bench joking around with this guy or that guy, remember his face when Latendresse scored his very first goal? He seems like a happy-go-lucky kinda guy. If we trade him, I sure as heck hope it's not in a Ribeiro manner (i.e. a trade just to ship him out) but rather something that would clearly make the team better. As a personnal preference though, I'd definitely ship out some Euro content (Pleks, Sammy, Perez, Kots) before touching him though... Agreed. I shouldn't have brought up these unsubstantiated off-ice elements (very few of these stories appear to be somewhat close to something factual anyway). So mostly, I just wanted to stir the pot. I agree that he's not a problem on our team right, and probably never been (apart from that contractual dispute, but even our sacred captain held off and went back to Finland at one point -2000-01?). But while he's not a problem, he's also probably more expandable now that we have more natural scorers in our lineup (Higgins, Lats and Kovalev). A trade involving him should then improve our team by better ad-equation (trading a valuable yet somewhat redundant puzzle piece for a missing one) As for his character, I can wait for an up close and personal interview with him as I just can't size up what kind of guy he is. |
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Post by princelh on Dec 30, 2006 22:38:18 GMT -5
You want to trade Michael Ryder? We'll take'im. Who do you want off of our roster? Seriously, he is one of your grit players that can score. He is a playoff type player. Why would you Habs fans want to give up on him? You guys gave up on Darcy Tucker and he became a playoff clutch player. Ryder may turn out the same. As a Leafs fan, we would be glad to have him!
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Post by princelh on Dec 30, 2006 23:13:13 GMT -5
How about a Michael Ryder for Matt Stajan trade? You get a young second line centre, with good forchecking ability and we get a winger for Mats Sundin? Are their ages not similar?
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Post by Skilly on Dec 31, 2006 11:44:54 GMT -5
As for his character, I can wait for an up close and personal interview with him as I just can size up what kind of guy he is. Michael Ryder is a great character guy. While we sometimes question why he always shoots, we then turn around and complain that the team doesn't shoot enough (Tampa). I know Ribeiro and Ryder were friends, but I am not so sure that Ryder was in any way an "Amigo". Theo and Ribs liked to party and be in the spotlight ... Ryder is the exact opposite. In fact, Ryder has seen the effects of "partying" front and center (I'll leave that rumour just at that) ... Should we trade Ryder? Well, any time a GM has a chance to improve his team he has to jump at it. But let's not kid ourselves. Ryder is a 2.2 million first liner. And while we can replace him with a 4.5 million second liner (Kovalev), 2.2 million second liner of Ryder's calibre do not grow on trees. I really like the idea of Mikko Koivu. It sends all the right messages to Saku, frees up ALOT of cap space .... but is Mikko the answer. Would Mikko work well with Samsonov? Who did Samsonov have on his line in Boston and Edmonton? That is the type of player we need .... and I believe it was Jarret Stoll in Edmonton (who makes the exact same amount as Ryder)... So would Higgins - Koivu - Kovalev Samsonov - Stoll/Mikko - Lats be better than Higgins - Koivu - Ryder Samsonov - Pleky - Kovalev I am not a fan of trading just for trading .... but it seems the only way we break up the second line is getting rid of one of them. I am with Doc and would rather a nice young defenseman. But 40 games is long enough to wait for the second line to come around - isnt it? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 31, 2006 12:07:15 GMT -5
You want to trade Michael Ryder? We'll take'im. Who do you want off of our roster? Seriously, he is one of your grit players that can score. He is a playoff type player. Why would you Habs fans want to give up on him? You guys gave up on Darcy Tucker and he became a playoff clutch player. Ryder may turn out the same. As a Leafs fan, we would be glad to have him! He actually isn't a great playoff performer so far nor can we say he is a clutch player either. He is young though and could become that but so far he's been more of a regular game / regular season contributor. His grit comes in spades, like his scoring. IMO Ryder is a tad stretched in a first line winger role. |
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Post by ropoflu on Dec 31, 2006 13:28:37 GMT -5
As for his character, I can wait for an up close and personal interview with him as I just can size up what kind of guy he is. Michael Ryder is a great character guy. While we sometimes question why he always shoots, we then turn around and complain that the team doesn't shoot enough (Tampa). I know Ribeiro and Ryder were friends, but I am not so sure that Ryder was in any way an "Amigo". Theo and Ribs liked to party and be in the spotlight ... Ryder is the exact opposite. In fact, Ryder has seen the effects of "partying" front and center (I'll leave that rumour just at that) ... Should we trade Ryder? Well, any time a GM has a chance to improve his team he has to jump at it. But let's not kid ourselves. Ryder is a 2.2 million first liner. And while we can replace him with a 4.5 million second liner (Kovalev), 2.2 million second liner of Ryder's calibre do not grow on trees. I really like the idea of Mikko Koivu. It sends all the right messages to Saku, frees up ALOT of cap space .... but is Mikko the answer. Would Mikko work well with Samsonov? Who did Samsonov have on his line in Boston and Edmonton? That is the type of player we need .... and I believe it was Jarret Stoll in Edmonton (who makes the exact same amount as Ryder)... So would Higgins - Koivu - Kovalev Samsonov - Stoll/Mikko - Lats be better than Higgins - Koivu - Ryder Samsonov - Pleky - Kovalev I am not a fan of trading just for trading .... but it seems the only way we break up the second line is getting rid of one of them. I am with Doc and would rather a nice young defenseman. But 40 games is long enough to wait for the second line to come around - isnt it? While I still don't know what kind of intangibles he brings in the locker room, I agree that Ryder doesn't strike me as a party hard hothead. Another question Doc raised earlier, would we be able to resign him when he'll be an UFA? Last contract negotiations left the impression that both he and the habs didn't have longterm plan for each other. Again, rough negotiations happen even with the most loyal and dedicated players. You and I probably won't get complete answers from our myopic televised perspective, but sure Gainey and Carbo know more from close observation and conversation with the guy. I wanted us to sign a defenseman this summer not a winger. Problems is that we now also have a serious gap at center. We've lucky that Koivu hasn't been injured yet. By trading for a depth D, Gainey bet on Plekanec blossoming as a 2nd center or on Kovalev-Samsonov chemistry to compensate Plek lack of experience, but it didn't work out. The center problem is not addressed with Lapierre as Begin is far more effective on the wing. To me, our depth at center look like this : a legitimate first line center in Koivu, a soon to be ufa third line center in Bonk, a replacement for Bonk in Plekanec and a excellent forth liner in Lapierre. Depending on Lapierre development he could be switched with Plekanec on that chart. Begin is a highly effective 4 th line LWer but not a very good center, and Murray is an exquisite AHLer with cool hair. So... to me a trade is in order. What asset do we have that could be traded for a talented enough second line center, that could replace Koivu in times of injuries? Our soon-to-be UFAs have limited trade value, unless we trade for another UFA wich doesn't solve our problem in the long run (granted we could address the problem in July on the UFA market). We could also pull out another Kovalev type of trade, but I've never been in favor of trading young assets, plus we would have to wait till deadline to trigger such a trade, which leave us less time to install the newcomer. Right here, right now, because he is a talented, reasonably paid and a hardworking player, Ryder has the best chance to lend us a center with the same attributes. There's no way we weaken our defense more by trading Komi and the only other assets capable of lending us a 2nd center are soon-to-be free agents. Koivu, Higgins and Latendresse are core so we shouldn't trade them. Kovy and Samsonov are paid too much, but we could probably get the same kind of underachieving overpaid center in return (personally I am not interested). The other players are either too unproven or not talented enough to get us close to what we need. Trading our 1st round pick is in anycase most likely to happen at the trade deadline and giving our current position standing, it's not worth much anyway. To answer your question. I'm not a scout nor do have seen Stoll or Mikko play enough, but based of what I've read, they are clear improvement over Plekanec or Bonk for now and years to come (Mikko has even played on the first line this year in Minnesota). Both team are in the west and are struggling. How about a Michael Ryder for Matt Stajan trade? You get a young second line centre, with good forechecking ability and we get a winger for Mats Sundin? Are their ages not similar? No thanks. The ages are similar, but that's it. We need a proven second line center or at least one with serious potential. Given Leafs short and mid term future, draft picks might prove more interesting. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 1, 2007 12:04:32 GMT -5
You want to trade Michael Ryder? We'll take'im. Who do you want off of our roster? Seriously, he is one of your grit players that can score. He is a playoff type player. Why would you Habs fans want to give up on him? You guys gave up on Darcy Tucker and he became a playoff clutch player. Ryder may turn out the same. As a Leafs fan, we would be glad to have him! He actually isn't a great playoff performer so far nor can we say he is a clutch player either. He is young though and could become that but so far he's been more of a regular game / regular season contributor. His grit comes in spades, like his scoring. IMO Ryder is a tad stretched in a first line winger role. Neglecting his poor playoff performance from 2 years ago (only because the entire second line, Ribeiro and Dags included, were pitiful) ...well his playoff numbers are not that bad. Last year he was tied for second in playoff scoring on the team (2 goals, 3 assists, 5 points in 6 games). Only Kovalev had more points ....and if Koivu wasn't injured we all know that first line (of which Ryder was apart) was dominant. The same thing happened in the 2005 playoffs as happened in the 2006 playoffs .... our entire offense went kaput for 4 games. Then we found ourselves on the golf course. No one on the team stepped up ...... so in my opinion the only playoff performers we have based on that criteria are Koivu and Kovalev .... with Ryder being the closest to third. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 1, 2007 14:08:26 GMT -5
Neglecting his poor playoff performance from 2 years ago (only because the entire second line, Ribeiro and Dags included, were pitiful) ...well his playoff numbers are not that bad. Last year he was tied for second in playoff scoring on the team (2 goals, 3 assists, 5 points in 6 games). Only Kovalev had more points ....and if Koivu wasn't injured we all know that first line (of which Ryder was apart) was dominant. The same thing happened in the 2005 playoffs as happened in the 2006 playoffs .... our entire offense went kaput for 4 games. Then we found ourselves on the golf course. No one on the team stepped up ...... so in my opinion the only playoff performers we have based on that criteria are Koivu and Kovalev .... with Ryder being the closest to third. Not saying Ryder can't or won't make it happen down the road in clutch moment but as well, I would not define him as a player who raises above the crowd in clutch moment, as PrinceLH was hinting. Indeed only Koivu and Kovalev (and maybe Rivet and Dandeneault) have truly shown to have that extra gear come playoff time. To answer your question. I'm not a scout nor do have seen Stoll or Mikko play enough, but based of what I've read, they are clear improvement over Plekanec or Bonk for now and years to come (Mikko has even played on the first line this year in Minnesota). Both team are in the west and are struggling. Minnessota is not particularly deep at center and have a Ryder clone in Mark Parrish. Not sure they’d go that route. Edmonton has Hemsky, Lupul and Pisani on the right. All are young and all have good upsides, again, not sure why they’d want Ryder. I wouldn't want Vasicek unless they trade for one of our own project like Plekanec but not for a productive player like Ryder. Vancouver could certainly use him but I wouldn’t want Morrisson and they would not give Kessler. Maybe to Philly for Carter? They’re right wing depth is horrible. The Stars are desperate for scoring relief right now, maybe we could trade him for Ribeiro LOL! |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 1, 2007 15:32:41 GMT -5
Ryder could bring us a good return. There is a reason why. It's because he is a very good player with prospects of improving. He's young and a scorer. Both good.
If he is a value to the team why trade him? Becuase he took time to sign lowball contracts? Because he shoots while Samsonov and Kovalev just hang onto the puck until they lose it?
Michael has never partied with the Hells Angels, been arested for drunk driving on Dorchester Blvd, fought with his girlfriend in the papers, shot off his mouth to the owners box, complained about the coach, GM or teamates.
Why trade a good guy with upside? Why not give him an environment with the team where he would be comfortable for his entire career?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 1, 2007 19:12:22 GMT -5
Not saying Ryder can't or won't make it happen down the road in clutch moment but as well, I would not define him as a player who raises above the crowd in clutch moment, as PrinceLH was hinting. His last 2 years of juniour, he was very clutch for the Hull Olympiques. In Hamilton in 02/03 he had 11 goals in 23 games. Even with the Habs, didn't he have one playoff year where everything he shot seemed to hit the post, or just miss? I tend to think he does play better in the playoffs. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 1, 2007 19:15:51 GMT -5
How about a Michael Ryder for Matt Stajan trade? You get a young second line centre, with good forchecking ability and we get a winger for Mats Sundin? Are their ages not similar? Ryder's 26, Stajan has just turned 24. Hmmm, interesting trade and I'd pull the trigger on that one, but it will never happen between two teams in the same division. It also hurts the Leafs Cap space as Ryder makes $1.4MM more than Stajan. I wouldn't trade Stajan in your place. He's improving, is very strong, skates extremely well and is finding his scoring touch. He's going to be a very good 2 way player. Love to have him on our 2nd line, but it ain't gonna happen. |
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 1, 2007 19:27:33 GMT -5
Minnessota is not particularly deep at center and have a Ryder clone in Mark Parrish. Not sure they’d go that route. Edmonton has Hemsky, Lupul and Pisani on the right. All are young and all have good upsides, again, not sure why they’d want Ryder. I wouldn't want Vasicek unless they trade for one of our own project like Plekanec but not for a productive player like Ryder. Vancouver could certainly use him but I wouldn’t want Morrisson and they would not give Kessler. Maybe to Philly for Carter? They’re right wing depth is horrible. The Stars are desperate for scoring relief right now, maybe we could trade him for Ribeiro LOL! I mentionned Mikko and Stoll more as the type player (young yet not green and talented) I would like to have centering our second line and less as realistic trade material for Ryder. But to get these kind of ideal 2nd line center, you do have to offer a valuable and tradeable asset and I think Ryder fits that bill. As a was screening trough teams depth chart at center I found that it looked quite thin most of the time. Like us, a majority of teams appear to be on the buyer side when it comes to centers. I like you Carter idea. He might even have too much upside but thats the kind of player I would be looking for. When was the last time we had a 2nd line center who could be dominating at time? Damphousse? I think most of us see Koivu as a 1b center (top 20). To give him some room we need a another 1b or a 2a center and not a 2b like Ribeiro or a 3a like Bonk or Plekanec (eventually). I think most people envision Higgins at center partly because they like the way he can dominate the game (with is speed and work along the boards) and crave for another center who can do the same. That could be explained by the fact that we haven't been spoiled in that department for a long time: Darby, Linden, Zholtok, Ribeiro, whoevers, whatevers... That lead me to another question to you guys, who would like to see sporting the CH as our 1b-2a second line center? I mean here a center that we could realistically obtain one way or another giving our present roster and the cap space we have. Players like Malkin and Brad Richards are probably out of reach, but players like Mikko, Stoll or Carter are not impossible to get. PS: HFinLA, I feel the same about Ryder. I have the impression we're deeper on the wing than at center (that's debatable). With Koivu not getting any younger, I would like us to get a center who is fairly cheap, young and talented, just the like Ryder. |
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 1, 2007 19:38:40 GMT -5
How about a Michael Ryder for Matt Stajan trade? You get a young second line centre, with good forchecking ability and we get a winger for Mats Sundin? Are their ages not similar? Ryder's 26, Stajan has just turned 24. Hmmm, interesting trade and I'd pull the trigger on that one, but it will never happen between two teams in the same division. It also hurts the Leafs Cap space as Ryder makes $1.4MM more than Stajan. I wouldn't trade Stajan in your place. He's improving, is very strong, skates extremely well and is finding his scoring touch. He's going to be a very good 2 way player. Love to have him on our 2nd line, but it ain't gonna happen. I'm not sure Stajan would such an upgrade over Plekanec. But I haven't watch the Leaves this year and I may have overlooked him, as Toronto is deep at center. A thread on him from the TO HF board: hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=326797 |
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Post by princelh on Jan 2, 2007 0:57:12 GMT -5
Leafs now have Cap room, with Peca gone for most of the rest of the season. They have close to 4 million to play with. When does Ryder become unrestricted?
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Post by Skilly on Jan 2, 2007 10:09:41 GMT -5
Leafs now have Cap room, with Peca gone for most of the rest of the season. They have close to 4 million to play with. When does Ryder become unrestricted? I believe he is a RFA next year , then a free agent the following. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 2, 2007 10:34:21 GMT -5
How about...  6'4, 225lbs, 28 years old, defensively responsible, knows how to play with stars, currently averaging close to a point a game, makes less than $2 million (though he is a UFA)... BUT, he also happens to live in Montreal during the off-season, is married to a Quebecois, and oh yeah, is good friends with Saku Koivu... I'd try to avoid giving up Ryder for him, mind you, but he'd be a pretty good addition, in my opinion. Out of curiosity, have I ever mentioned Danius Zubrus before? |
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Post by blny on Jan 2, 2007 10:53:17 GMT -5
I don't know how much of his success can be attributed to his own play. He has all the tools, but I really feel he's living off of the skills of linemates (Ovechkin and Jagr before him). I don't recall a lot of people missing DZ in the last few years. Zednik and Bulis, for all their flaws, were still able to out perform the pieces we sent the other way in that trade.
I didn't realize he retains a home in Montreal. That speaks of someone that truly likes the city. Sure he married someone from the city, but there are cheaper ways to keep in touch with the in laws than to keep a home that close to them.
It is an interesting proposition, and would fall into the budget abilities of the team more easily than a big name. He would certainly fly under the radar of a lot of teams looking to address needs.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 2, 2007 11:06:11 GMT -5
How about... 6'4, 225lbs, 28 years old, defensively responsible, knows how to play with stars, currently averaging close to a point a game, makes less than $2 million (though he is a UFA)... BUT, he also happens to live in Montreal during the off-season, is married to a Quebecois, and oh yeah, is good friends with Saku Koivu... I'd try to avoid giving up Ryder for him, mind you, but he'd be a pretty good addition, in my opinion. Out of curiosity, have I ever mentioned Danius Zubrus before? While Zubrus offensive numbers really reached new heights when paired with a certain AllStar, you could also say that it was the first time he was given any kind of talented wingers to play with. Didn't know he still was tied to Montreal that much! Don't want to boubt you but are you sure you're not mixing up stories with Richard Zednik? Personally I'd take Zubrus back in a heartbeat as he really would fit well in the system here. That being said, he's a guy that would always, always have a good deal of the media and fans on his back for not being as visible from game to game. Not sure I'd trade Ryder for a UFA-to-be though. |
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 2, 2007 11:09:17 GMT -5
How about... 6'4, 225lbs, 28 years old, defensively responsible, knows how to play with stars, currently averaging close to a point a game, makes less than $2 million (though he is a UFA)... BUT, he also happens to live in Montreal during the off-season, is married to a Quebecois, and oh yeah, is good friends with Saku Koivu... I'd try to avoid giving up Ryder for him, mind you, but he'd be a pretty good addition, in my opinion. Out of curiosity, have I ever mentioned Danius Zubrus before? Interesting find BC and thanks for the info about the girlfriend here, I had forgot about that. He's been in the nhl for a long time (10 years), but mostly on losing teams. Playing for a contender might make him a bit more involved and consistent. He also got to be more mature five year after his last stint here. Not sure I would trade for him because of the ufa status. We might prefer to sign him this summer, but I'm not convinced anyway that he's a 1b-2a center. EDIT: well he is Washington first line center, so I guess that qualifies him as a 1c center |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 2, 2007 11:19:36 GMT -5
I don't know how much of his success can be attributed to his own play. He has all the tools, but I really feel he's living off of the skills of linemates (Ovechkin and Jagr before him). I don't recall a lot of people missing DZ in the last few years. Zednik and Bulis, for all their flaws, were still able to out perform the pieces we sent the other way in that trade. That may be, but aren't we looking for a center who can play with a couple of really talented wingers? As we are seeing with Plekanec this year, simply sticking a body in there and expecting production isn't always realistic. Granted, I personally think, and have always thought, that the real problem lies with having Kovalev and Samsonov together, but I certainly wouldn't be adverse to trying out a guy there, a guy who has a pretty good history of getting out of superstar's ways... As for missing Zubrus, I think most people don't, or didn't, realize just how young he was when we sent him away. There was (is?) this perception that Zubrus was a grizzled, but under-achieving vet. He was 22 when we traded him away. Not when we acquired him, but traded him away. That's akin to trading away Mikhail Grabovski, and saying it was because he wasn't producing... Also, as a 21-22 year old, in Montreal, Zubrus had 42 points. Pas pire, ca, in retrospect. At any rate, I wouldn't look into acquiring him for his production. I'd want him because he'd be, in my opinion, a better style fit for Kovalev (or even Samsonov) which would in turn increase Kovie's production. Zubrus wouldn't be skating into Kovalev all the time, like Plekanec tends to do, or skating around the perimeter, like Samsonov does. He'd just skate up and down, and crash the net, something nobody does on that line. I was watching the game the other day, and at one point Kovalev had FOUR Lightning players around him, which he tried to stickhandle through. My initial reaction was "how selfish he should pass" until I saw Plekanec standing almost right next to Kovalev (right admist the four other players) while Samsonov was WAY over on the other boards, a million miles aways. The Lightning could swarm Kovalev because nobody was going to the net, his center was being covered by the four already, and the other winger was in a different time zone. Perhaps the best play in that circumstance would have been a dump-in, but we all know that isn't Kovalev's game, and nor should it be. On the other hand, if there was a center racing towards the front of the net that would draw off one, perhaps two or three of the defenders, and open things up a whole lot more. I didn't realize he retains a home in Montreal. That speaks of someone that truly likes the city. Sure he married someone from the city, but there are cheaper ways to keep in touch with the in laws than to keep a home that close to them. It is an interesting proposition, and would fall into the budget abilities of the team more easily than a big name. He would certainly fly under the radar of a lot of teams looking to address needs. Well, I like it! The real problem though, is that he is a UFA at season's end, and will probably command in the $3-4 million range (yes, that much). Which is probably out of our budget, and even if we do play the "it's your home" card, he has spent the last 6 years in Washington, they really like him there, they have the cap room and career-wise it's probably much, much better to stay on the team that promises you Alexander Ovechkin as your linemate. So it may end up being a true playoff rental, which I would be okay with (see the "should we go for it" poll), but which does have the potential to backfire. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 2, 2007 11:23:12 GMT -5
Didn't know he still was tied to Montreal that much! Don't want to boubt you but are you sure you're not mixing up stories with Richard Zednik? If the stories be mixed-up, it's Pat Hickey's fault! (though I did know this already, before Hickey mentioned it recently) www.canada.com/montrealgazette/columnists/story.html?id=c8d1f80e-f428-430c-8e23-b8bb807650b0Zubrus flying: Dainius Zubrus is on his way to a career season with the Capitals. He has 14 goals and 33 points after picking up an assist last night and said he feels comfortable playing on a line with Ovechkin and Alexander Semin.
But the 28-year-old Lithuanian said he still has fond memories of Montreal and spends most of the summer working on his golf game in Blainville, where he and his French-Canadian wife, Nathalie, have a home bordering the Fontainebleau golf course.
"I enjoy going back to the city," said Zubrus, who spent parts of three seasons with the Canadiens from 1999 to 2001. The couple have two children, 4-year-old Thomas and a daughter, Emma, who was born last month. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 2, 2007 11:40:27 GMT -5
My preferred option:  Age: 26 Height: 6'2" Weight: 190 Under contract for next season at 2.1 million. Leads Nashville with a +14. A proven crash and banger around the net. Ryder for Legwand please!! |
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Post by blny on Jan 2, 2007 11:49:57 GMT -5
I don't know how much of his success can be attributed to his own play. He has all the tools, but I really feel he's living off of the skills of linemates (Ovechkin and Jagr before him). I don't recall a lot of people missing DZ in the last few years. Zednik and Bulis, for all their flaws, were still able to out perform the pieces we sent the other way in that trade. That may be, but aren't we looking for a center who can play with a couple of really talented wingers? As we are seeing with Plekanec this year, simply sticking a body in there and expecting production isn't always realistic. Granted, I personally think, and have always thought, that the real problem lies with having Kovalev and Samsonov together, but I certainly wouldn't be adverse to trying out a guy there, a guy who has a pretty good history of getting out of superstar's ways... As for missing Zubrus, I think most people don't, or didn't, realize just how young he was when we sent him away. There was (is?) this perception that Zubrus was a grizzled, but under-achieving vet. He was 22 when we traded him away. Not when we acquired him, but traded him away. That's akin to trading away Mikhail Grabovski, and saying it was because he wasn't producing... Also, as a 21-22 year old, in Montreal, Zubrus had 42 points. Pas pire, ca, in retrospect. At any rate, I wouldn't look into acquiring him for his production. I'd want him because he'd be, in my opinion, a better style fit for Kovalev (or even Samsonov) which would in turn increase Kovie's production. Zubrus wouldn't be skating into Kovalev all the time, like Plekanec tends to do, or skating around the perimeter, like Samsonov does. He'd just skate up and down, and crash the net, something nobody does on that line. I was watching the game the other day, and at one point Kovalev had FOUR Lightning players around him, which he tried to stickhandle through. My initial reaction was "how selfish he should pass" until I saw Plekanec standing almost right next to Kovalev (right admist the four other players) while Samsonov was WAY over on the other boards, a million miles aways. The Lightning could swarm Kovalev because nobody was going to the net, his center was being covered by the four already, and the other winger was in a different time zone. Perhaps the best play in that circumstance would have been a dump-in, but we all know that isn't Kovalev's game, and nor should it be. On the other hand, if there was a center racing towards the front of the net that would draw off one, perhaps two or three of the defenders, and open things up a whole lot more. I didn't realize he retains a home in Montreal. That speaks of someone that truly likes the city. Sure he married someone from the city, but there are cheaper ways to keep in touch with the in laws than to keep a home that close to them. It is an interesting proposition, and would fall into the budget abilities of the team more easily than a big name. He would certainly fly under the radar of a lot of teams looking to address needs. Well, I like it! The real problem though, is that he is a UFA at season's end, and will probably command in the $3-4 million range (yes, that much). Which is probably out of our budget, and even if we do play the "it's your home" card, he has spent the last 6 years in Washington, they really like him there, they have the cap room and career-wise it's probably much, much better to stay on the team that promises you Alexander Ovechkin as your linemate. So it may end up being a true playoff rental, which I would be okay with (see the "should we go for it" poll), but which does have the potential to backfire. All good points. I was aware of how young DZ was at the time we dealt him. I just didn't see him getting better than what he was at the time we traded him. I'm not all that convinced that he is that much better. Despite the lack of success the team has had trying to plug Plekanec into the 2nd line role, I really think you could put just about anyone out there with Ovechkin. Case in point, Chris Clark has spent much of the season on the other wing. I do agree with your assessment of Kovalev. I do believe that a lot of the time he's "hogging" the puck because it's the best option. In defence of Plekanec, playing with Kovy can't be easy. I don't mean that as disrespect to Kovy either. Alex plays a loose, unstructured game. It's very improvisational. That can make it difficult to find your place on the ice. Too many times though, Tomas has been seen in the wrong area - often crowding his linemates and giving them no real option for a pass. |
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Post by blny on Jan 2, 2007 11:50:42 GMT -5
My preferred option: Age: 26 Height: 6'2" Weight: 190 Under contract for next season at 2.1 million. Leads Nashville with a +14. A proven crash and banger around the net. Ryder for Legwand please!! I'm just not sold on him. Perhaps it's where he plays, but as far as I'm concerned he's never lived up to his potential. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 2, 2007 17:02:41 GMT -5
My preferred option: Age: 26 Height: 6'2" Weight: 190 Under contract for next season at 2.1 million. Leads Nashville with a +14. A proven crash and banger around the net. Ryder for Legwand please!! Like what Legwand brings to the table, skilly. A tough guy who plays a tough game. But if that's the quality we're looking for why not consider one of our goaltending prospects when going after this guy? From TSN.ca:  Philadelphia DOB: Jan 1, 1985 Age: 22 Place of Birth: London, Ont., Canada HT: 6-3 WT: 200 Shoots: R NHL Seasons: 1 Drafted by Philadelphia in 2003 (1/11). Looking at the teams who could be apt to shake things up a bit, the Flyers might be temped in starting from the goal, out. They could be looking for a goaltender or goaltending prospect and Gainey has a few decisions to make in the next few years WRT that. Granted Gainey might have to sweeten the pot a bit depending on the prospect, but at least he'd be dealing from a position of strength. And note; Carter is a righty. I was talking with cigarviper a few weeks back and he seemed to think the risk with dealing Ryder is that he could come back to kill the Habs in the future a la John LeClair. That's a distinct possibility. Besides, dealing a goaltender also means he doesn't necessarily have to touch the existing lineup unless he packages David Aebischer. I read some info on Zubrus in the thread and I don't know if the Caps would be willing to give up their number-1 centre. He's a lefty as well, but he'd be a great acquisition playing between two Russians on the 2nd line. Jarrett Stoll is also a right-handed shot, but would Edmonton give him up as well? Mike Ryder might bring him here, yes. And the Habs would only have to face him once a year. Yet, another team who might be looking to deal is Phoenix. I heard on a local radio station that Shane Doan might be available. He's not a centre by position and TSN has him listed as a left winger. However, his profile says he's a righty. Here's his listen courtesy of TSN:  Phoenix DOB: Oct 10, 1976 Age: 30 Place of Birth: Halkirk, Alta., Canada HT: 6-2 WT: 216 Shoots: R NHL Seasons: 10 Drafted by Winnipeg in 1995 (1/7). Now you know that Gainey would definitely have to sweeten the pot here. But, the deal might be do-able nonetheless. If he had to touch the existing lineup I could see the deal unfolding something like this: To Phoenix: Ryder + a goaltender or goal prospect + 3rd or 4th rounder. To Montreal: Doan + a 2rd-round pick. Without touching the lineup it might unfold like this: To Phoenix: one of Chipchura/Milroy/Maxwell + Halak (Gretzky might even hold out for Price seeing how his captain is involved) + 3rd or 4th However, the Coyotes are looking for goals and goaltending. Ryder would be in his element being the go-to guy and after Cujo the Coyotes are pretty thin in goal. Going through their prospects on hockeysfuture.com they can only expect to wait for a diamond in the rough. Again Gainey might have to sweeten the pot in order to land the Coyote captain. Though Gainey would be dealing from a position of strength and landing the type of player he values. Have a good one. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 2, 2007 18:38:33 GMT -5
With only $700,000 in cap space we definately would have to deal a player from our roster (or two) to land Shane Doan. Jeff Carter only makes $942,000 (of which half is already paid) ... so we can now fit him into our cap without losing a roster player.
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