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Post by Spotnick on Oct 20, 2003 21:03:56 GMT -5
Thoughts? ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 20, 2003 21:04:45 GMT -5
Yawn. I would rather see Ryder play than the Polish prince, who probably realised this was his last NHL chance and decided to show up this year.
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Post by Viper on Oct 20, 2003 21:06:06 GMT -5
who cares does he play for us now ?? no !! did he play for us then ?? no!! will he play for us tomorow?? no !!
HABS BEAT WINGS 2 to 1
who is cerkawski anyhow ;D
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Post by Thomas on Oct 20, 2003 21:11:48 GMT -5
I think he was misused and mistreated by Therrien last season, I'd rather have him than Audette. Czerkawski got moved around too much, while Audette kept getting chances to stick. Too late now, hes gone and were stuck with Audette.
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Post by Prrebel on Oct 20, 2003 21:13:55 GMT -5
He got screwed last season. I hate to say this but I told you so. OK, maybe not you guys, but some other dudes.  |
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Post by Yeti on Oct 20, 2003 21:15:06 GMT -5
Just saw the highlights, Belfour was extremely weak on one, weak on the other one.
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Post by habernac on Oct 20, 2003 21:17:23 GMT -5
Czerk had zero value here. NY is the only place he seems to be able to play well. I don't miss him.
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Post by Disp on Oct 20, 2003 21:35:45 GMT -5
I was watching that game before the habs-wings started, Czer was up to his old tricks. Just brutal in his own end, total lack of effort and tenacity, then the leafs took a penalty and he pretty much immediately scored.
He may be doing ok now, but guys who play like that come back to hurt their teams eventually.
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Post by PTH on Oct 20, 2003 21:38:22 GMT -5
Czerk had zero value here. NY is the only place he seems to be able to play well. I don't miss him. I miss Asham though. I think he was misused and mistreated by Therrien last season, I'd rather have him than Audette. Czerkawski got moved around too much, while Audette kept getting chances to stick. Too late now, hes gone and were stuck with Audette. Agree there. Chow really got very little slack, while Audi got chance after chance. Maybe Audette's getting his arm hurt while playing for us gave AS and MT a feeling of loyalty for the guy..... |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Oct 20, 2003 21:47:27 GMT -5
I don't think there's any reason to miss Asham anymore. The Habs have a similar and perhaps better replacement in Michael Ryder. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Oct 20, 2003 22:07:47 GMT -5
Asham: 5 games, 1 goal, 0 assists, -2 +/- Czerkawski: 5 games, 5 goals, 1 assist, +3 +/-Audette: 6 games, 1 goal, 3 assists, 0 +/-
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Post by Viper on Oct 20, 2003 22:12:25 GMT -5
your not the only one PTH |
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Post by Viper on Oct 20, 2003 22:15:08 GMT -5
Asham: 5 games, 1 goal, 0 assists, -2 +/- Czerkawski: 5 games, 5 goals, 1 assist, +3 +/- whats the point here ?? we gave up asham for cerkawski who already existed in the forms of Petrov and Audette. ashams third line grit would have been a much better presence on the roster than the revolving door to hamilton of the other three. we never should have traded for cerk in the first place so the thought of what could've been is fruitless because we just beat Detroit 2 TO 1 1600 posts and i'm still pissed off about that trade son of a gun. |
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Post by blaise on Oct 20, 2003 22:18:31 GMT -5
If Czerkawski is a zero against the Habs and saves his scoring for teams the Habs are trying to beat out, he could prove valuable after all.
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Post by Patty Roy on Oct 20, 2003 22:23:20 GMT -5
Who cares about Chow anyways?
And to be quite honest, i don't really miss Arron Asham all that much either. That's not a knock on him or anything, i just really prefer what i've seen from Ryder.
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Post by blaise on Oct 20, 2003 22:24:40 GMT -5
Agree, Asham would be a spare part.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Oct 20, 2003 22:31:17 GMT -5
Who cares about Chow anyways? And to be quite honest, i don't really miss Arron Asham all that much either. That's not a knock on him or anything, i just really prefer what i've seen from Ryder. Don't forget that we also have Jason Ward. It seems that the Habs now have TWO players who are capable of playing an "Aaron Asham style of game," and as the saying goes, two heads are always better than one. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Oct 20, 2003 22:34:10 GMT -5
Asham stinks. That's the point. I was laughing when I saw you guys last year absurdly comparing Asham's stats to Czerkawski's. Considering we could use Czerkawski's talent and scoring finish, Audette should have been the player bought out. Where would we put him now? Anyway, he'll continue to be a non-factor player and you'll forget about him eventually... |
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Post by CentreHice on Oct 20, 2003 22:36:13 GMT -5
Saw Chow play in Hamilton last year. He must have thought floating was the way to get back to Montreal. Zero impact in the Bulldogs' games I saw. And yes, on any other night, Belfour has both of those shots.
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Post by Viper on Oct 20, 2003 22:45:12 GMT -5
Asham stinks. That's the point. I was laughing when I saw you guys last year absurdly compared Asham's stats to Czerkawski's. While asham is nothing to write home about he was a much better fit on our roster at the time than the addition of Cerkawski. Had we moved one or both of Audette and Petrov in order to get a more talented version of Asham that would have been something that made sense however it didn't and ultimately the final result was just as many of us expected a complete disaster. Considering we could use Czerkawski's talent and scoring finish, Audette should have been the player bought out. well in audettes defense he has been a much bigger factor the first 6 games than the majority of last season. He has no finish anymore since his injury it seems but at 3 million a year for 2 more years a buyout was alot less harmful to Gillettes wallet doing it the way they did.  Where would we put him now? Anyway, he'll continue to be a non-factor player and you'll forget about him eventually... Asham now may not be of use to us but the question isn't where would we put him its what could we get for him that FITS (the key element here ) into the roster or can we get a prospect or pick at least if he brings nothing else. trading for the best talent is one thing building a team is a completely different thing just aske the rangers. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Oct 20, 2003 22:52:04 GMT -5
Saw Chow play in Hamilton last year. He must have thought floating was the way to get back to Montreal. Zero impact in the Bulldogs' games I saw. And yes, on any other night, Belfour has both of those shots. Most definitely you saw him after his second demotion to Hamilton...i.e., when he knew management didn't care how hard he played. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 20, 2003 23:42:14 GMT -5
I don't think there's any reason to miss Asham anymore. The Habs have a similar and perhaps better replacement in Michael Ryder. Well, I'd rather have Asham than Bégin, Audette or Dackell myself. I always thought after Dackell's awful performance in the '01 playoffs that he should have been traded/not tendered. Asham was the perfect kid to add to the lineup at the time. And now, if we had him, we could either trade him for something useful or simply have a grittier lineup, more along the lines of what BG seems to want to put together, anyhow. AS's trades have proven to be a very mixed bag. Asham and a pick lost for nothing other than an expensive buyout, and Rucinsky who's become a 12 million dollar ball and chains in Audette. If he'd just put them on waivers we'd have an extra draft pick and a lot more money without being any worse a team. |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Oct 20, 2003 23:56:27 GMT -5
Well, I'd rather have Asham than Bégin, Audette or Dackell myself. I always thought after Dackell's awful performance in the '01 playoffs that he should have been traded/not tendered. Asham was the perfect kid to add to the lineup at the time. And now, if we had him, we could either trade him for something useful or simply have a grittier lineup, more along the lines of what BG seems to want to put together, anyhow. AS's trades have proven to be a very mixed bag. Asham and a pick lost for nothing other than an expensive buyout, and Rucinsky who's become a 12 million dollar ball and chains in Audette. If he'd just put them on waivers we'd have an extra draft pick and a lot more money without being any worse a team. In Andre Savard's defense, at the time of the Rucinsky trade the Habs were severely lacking in the goal scoring dept. and Donald Audette seemed to have been the right prescription up until he got injured. As for Asham, yes, his grit is certainly welcome. But I am looking at things in regards to the current roster. Asham, Ward and Ryder are all natural RWers who can potentially score 15-20 goals. They more or less bring the same intangibles to the table (ie. they can play a crash-and-bang style). Even with the model that Bob Gainey is working with, does it make sense to have three wingers who are equal in offensive output and playing ability to be on the same team at the same time? Aaron Asham is a 15G, 35P player. Yes, he was gritty and a hard worker, but players like him grow on trees in the AHL and we seem to have two replicas in the form of Ward and Ryder. As I said before, we have TWO players who are capable of replacing Aaron Asham, so why are we still hung up on this trade?  |
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Post by PTH on Oct 21, 2003 0:06:32 GMT -5
In Andre Savard's defense, at the time of the Rucinsky trade the Habs were severely lacking in the goal scoring dept. and Donald Audette seemed to have been the right prescription up until he got injured. Well, I've never liked Audette.... a 4th line PP specialist who can do nothing but score, on a 4-year 3 million contract..... not a good choice. Berezin was an acceptable mistake - win some, lose some, but Audette..... yuck ! Well, Asham has proven more than the other two combined, and has a level of grit neither of the other two has shown (Asham can be a backup to a heavyweight), and had Asham been inserted into the regular lineup at the right point in time, our team would be that much farther along its rebuild. Then you look at who of Ward and Ryder can help.... trade them or Asham as needed, but not to get a redundant player who never really got to play his position or role on the team. |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Oct 21, 2003 0:31:46 GMT -5
Well, Asham has proven more than the other two combined, and has a level of grit neither of the other two has shown Ward is a year younger than Asham, while Ryder is two years younger. This is their first full season in the NHL. Yes, Asham has proven more than both of them combined, but Asham has been given the opportunity to prove himself while Ward and Ryder have just been given the opportunity. Proving who's better and who has more grit can be better answered at the end of this season, not now. |
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Post by GoMtl on Oct 21, 2003 3:20:12 GMT -5
Maybe Audette's getting his arm hurt while playing for us gave AS and MT a feeling of loyalty for the guy..... Or maybe it was the fact that Audette led the team in goals scored and points during the 02 post season.... |
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Post by Thomas on Oct 21, 2003 6:17:59 GMT -5
One has to remember that Asham played top line minutes with Yashin last season which really helped his stats, while he would have been on the bottom line here, and would probably have the same point production as Ward or Ryder, even though I think Ryder will be twice the player. The Asham deal was good at the time IMO, we traded a player who could hardly make the line up and a mid round pick for a proven scorer, he just didnt fit / was misused. AS made some good trades, but quite a bit of them backfired for various reasons.
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Post by blny on Oct 21, 2003 6:50:44 GMT -5
I'm not going to get all riled up going down memory road. He's gone and we're better off for it. We cut our losses. All I want to see in the hilights is someone plant his ass every time he sets skate to ice.
Asham is a gritty guy. No doubt. He plays hard every shift. However, his hard work was only gonna produce so much. The stats he had can be attributed to playing with a number one type of centre. Going to the net and cleaning up the trash. Yes, that would have been welcomed, being that he put up more numbers than Czerk. Hind sight is 20-20. It's easy to look back on a move and say, "I told you so", etc. Yes, there were people on here knocking the trade from the start. Yes, the experiment failed. I expect the thinking was bring in someone with more talent than Petrov, give up little to get it, and trade Petrov when things get settled. Things never got settled. Czerk never produced. Audette struggled just as much. That was last year.
Look at who Chow's playing with right now. The two guys that Asham was basically playing with last season. Kvasha and Yashin. At one point last year those two were on the fourth line together. All three are floaters, that likely won't be together come season's end. I don't care what they end up with for points this season. That's them, let's focus on what we have now, and the changes that could, should, and might be made down the road.
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Post by blaise on Oct 21, 2003 10:43:22 GMT -5
Had we moved one or both of Audette and Petrov in order to get a more talented version of Asham that would have been something that made sense however it didn't and ultimately the final result was just as many of us expected a complete disaster. Audette was untradeable and Petrov could get only a 4th rounder. No sense moaning about a trade that couldn't have come off. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 21, 2003 10:51:53 GMT -5
wow, talk about the forum to move this to, nostalgia hehe
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