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Subban
Jul 5, 2014 16:17:27 GMT -5
Post by blny on Jul 5, 2014 16:17:27 GMT -5
Filing doesn't bother me. It's barely posturing. He needs to get his name in for an arbitration date. If the deal comes in before, date is canceled. Can't do it after the fact. It's like setting up a precautionary doctor's appointment.
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Subban
Jul 5, 2014 16:22:10 GMT -5
Post by CentreHice on Jul 5, 2014 16:22:10 GMT -5
Understood. But there's still the concern that Subban's camp is playing excessive hardball.
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Subban
Jul 5, 2014 18:52:57 GMT -5
Post by Gogie on Jul 5, 2014 18:52:57 GMT -5
This is actually good news to a certain extent. By opting for arbitration PK cannot sign an offer sheet from another team. Habs can choose one or two years if they actually end up going through the arbitration process (which we don't want to have to do). I suspect a deal will get done before they actually go to arbitration.
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Subban
Jul 5, 2014 21:27:20 GMT -5
Post by habsorbed on Jul 5, 2014 21:27:20 GMT -5
Understood. But there's still the concern that Subban's camp is playing excessive hardball. Both are a part of this dance. I'd say it was MB who played excessive hardball two years ago. What goes around comes around. I'm supporting PK on this one. GMs will come and go. Players like PK are once in a generation. Pay the man!
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Subban
Jul 5, 2014 23:16:53 GMT -5
Post by habsask on Jul 5, 2014 23:16:53 GMT -5
This is actually good news to a certain extent. By opting for arbitration PK cannot sign an offer sheet from another team. Habs can choose one or two years if they actually end up going through the arbitration process (which we don't want to have to do). I suspect a deal will get done before they actually go to arbitration. Interesting point Gogie. I'm not overly concerned either at this point but Bergevin has to get a contract done before it actually gets to arbitration. If the Habs & Subban go through that process the chances of signing Subban next time around get much bleaker.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 0:54:49 GMT -5
Post by habsorbed on Jul 6, 2014 0:54:49 GMT -5
When one looks at the list of the 20 NHL players going to arbitration PK is the one that stands out. The other 19 are bit/role players for their teams and no great loss if they move on. So why are we in this position? PK may be demanding but a GM should never be in this position with their star player. Sure glad we picked up Gilbert
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 2:18:30 GMT -5
Post by GNick99 on Jul 6, 2014 2:18:30 GMT -5
Bergevin likely can get Subban cheaper for this season if go thru arbitration. Then sign him longterm next year
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 2:45:15 GMT -5
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 6, 2014 2:45:15 GMT -5
Bergevin likely can get Subban cheaper for this season if go thru arbitration. Then sign him longterm next year I think it's good news. 1. PK will definitely be a Hab for two years. 2. PK will not have a crazy impact on the cap. 3. PK will get fair market value, both sides must accept the decision. 4. At any time the team can make a fair offer and PK can accept or reject it. 5. PK is motivated to perform, 6. Worst case in two years PK gets a UFA offer and we do or don't keep him past that time. It would have to be a huge offer and good luck to him if he chooses to leave after he earned free agency. We could choose to trade him for assets it appears we will lose him with no return. If he earns the right to free agency and he chooses to go, it's his right, and thank you for your great contribution.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 6:13:10 GMT -5
Post by jkr on Jul 6, 2014 6:13:10 GMT -5
Bergevin likely can get Subban cheaper for this season if go thru arbitration. Then sign him longterm next year I think it's good news. 1. PK will definitely be a Hab for two years. 2. PK will not have a crazy impact on the cap. 3. PK will get fair market value, both sides must accept the decision. 4. At any time the team can make a fair offer and PK can accept or reject it. 5. PK is motivated to perform, 6. Worst case in two years PK gets a UFA offer and we do or don't keep him past that time. It would have to be a huge offer and good luck to him if he chooses to leave after he earned free agency. We could choose to trade him for assets it appears we will lose him with no return. If he earns the right to free agency and he chooses to go, it's his right, and thank you for your great contribution. Point #6 is worst case? That's what I would call a massive understatement. The team loses their biggest star, one of he best D men in the league at the age of 27. It would be a disaster that would set the team back years. No amount of picks/prospects makes up for that level of talent & any GM that thinks that should be fired.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 6:15:31 GMT -5
Post by jkr on Jul 6, 2014 6:15:31 GMT -5
Bergevin likely can get Subban cheaper for this season if go thru arbitration. Then sign him longterm next year They can't keep going year to year with Subban. He's got leverage now, What happens when he goes UFA?
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 6:32:49 GMT -5
Post by christrpn on Jul 6, 2014 6:32:49 GMT -5
The deal will get done before arbitration.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 6:52:35 GMT -5
Post by franko on Jul 6, 2014 6:52:35 GMT -5
Stubbs:
#Habs Bergevin, Subban's agent Meehan have been busy w/ draft, free agency. Arbitration filing buys them more time to get a contract done
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 7:13:32 GMT -5
Post by christrpn on Jul 6, 2014 7:13:32 GMT -5
Stubbs: #Habs Bergevin, Subban's agent Meehan have been busy w/ draft, free agency. Arbitration filing buys them more time to get a contract done Important to know that he means more time without worrying about an offer sheet. Because technically, they have until December to sign him.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 7:23:00 GMT -5
Post by The Habitual Fan on Jul 6, 2014 7:23:00 GMT -5
It is simply a posturing step for legal reasons. Nothing to get excited about.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 8:33:52 GMT -5
Post by GNick99 on Jul 6, 2014 8:33:52 GMT -5
Bergevin likely can get Subban cheaper for this season if go thru arbitration. Then sign him longterm next year They can't keep going year to year with Subban. He's got leverage now, What happens when he goes UFA? He won't be UFA for 2 more years. To be UFA a player has to be 27 or 7 years in NHL. Subban is 25 and only 5 years.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 11:43:33 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 6, 2014 11:43:33 GMT -5
Eklund trying his best to sir up stuff....saying Subban doesn't want to play under our coaching staff...basicly saying his time here might be coming to a end........ Creasy.... A insider on twitter already denying the rumor saying anyone who didn't want to play for Therrien is already gone
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 12:06:43 GMT -5
Post by jkr on Jul 6, 2014 12:06:43 GMT -5
Eklund trying his best to sir up stuff....saying Subban doesn't want to play under our coaching staff...basicly saying his time here might be coming to a end........ Creasy.... A insider on twitter already denying the rumor saying anyone who didn't want to play for Therrien is already gone Eklund is all about traffic. He should stick to reporting trade rumors because when he ventures away from that he usually looks like an idiot. Some of the comments were dumb too - one Leaf fan saying something like how could he expect such a contract when he only had one 40 point season. (53 pts. last season BTW). That was rich comong from a fan of the team that gave Phaneuf 49 million.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 12:29:26 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 6, 2014 12:29:26 GMT -5
Eklund trying his best to sir up stuff....saying Subban doesn't want to play under our coaching staff...basicly saying his time here might be coming to a end........ Creasy.... A insider on twitter already denying the rumor saying anyone who didn't want to play for Therrien is already gone Eklund is all about traffic. He should stick to reporting trade rumors because when he ventures away from that he usually looks like an idiot. Some of the comments were dumb too - one Leaf fan saying something like how could he expect such a contract when he only had one 40 point season. (53 pts. last season BTW). That was rich comong from a fan of the team that gave Phaneuf 49 million. Lol at the Leaf fan.... Let's put it this way.....if Subban where put up for a trade...every teams fan base will be doing somersaults with just the potential Subban could play for them
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 14:35:51 GMT -5
Post by habsorbed on Jul 6, 2014 14:35:51 GMT -5
I think it's good news. 1. PK will definitely be a Hab for two years. 2. PK will not have a crazy impact on the cap. 3. PK will get fair market value, both sides must accept the decision. 4. At any time the team can make a fair offer and PK can accept or reject it. 5. PK is motivated to perform, 6. Worst case in two years PK gets a UFA offer and we do or don't keep him past that time. It would have to be a huge offer and good luck to him if he chooses to leave after he earned free agency. We could choose to trade him for assets it appears we will lose him with no return. If he earns the right to free agency and he chooses to go, it's his right, and thank you for your great contribution. Point #6 is worst case? That's what I would call a massive understatement. The team loses their biggest star, one of he best D men in the league at the age of 27. It would be a disaster that would set the team back years. No amount of picks/prospects makes up for that level of talent & any GM that thinks that should be fired. Good post. What this exercise is all about is keeping PK long term. We finally have someone in our system who is a superstar (it's been how many years?) and he is ours longterm unless MB blows it, which would be a disaster. Of all the assets MB has been entrusted with, PK is the most precious. MB's legacy will depend on what he does with PK. We may not have to keep PK but if he goes we better get great assets in return. And I'm not talking draft choices or prospects.
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 14:36:37 GMT -5
Post by habsorbed on Jul 6, 2014 14:36:37 GMT -5
Eklund is all about traffic. He should stick to reporting trade rumors because when he ventures away from that he usually looks like an idiot. Some of the comments were dumb too - one Leaf fan saying something like how could he expect such a contract when he only had one 40 point season. (53 pts. last season BTW). That was rich comong from a fan of the team that gave Phaneuf 49 million. Lol at the Leaf fan.... Let's put it this way.....if Subban where put up for a trade...every teams fan base will be doing somersaults with just the potential Subban could play for them As for the delusional Leaf fan (redundant I know), he'll be relieved to know that, from my perspective (and I suspect MB's) the Leafs could offer up his 3 favourite Leaf players (Kessel, Phaneuf, VRD, Bozak, Reimer, etc.) for PK and the answer would be the same:NO! NOT ENOUGH!
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Subban
Jul 6, 2014 19:42:59 GMT -5
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 6, 2014 19:42:59 GMT -5
I think it's good news. 1. PK will definitely be a Hab for two years. 2. PK will not have a crazy impact on the cap. 3. PK will get fair market value, both sides must accept the decision. 4. At any time the team can make a fair offer and PK can accept or reject it. 5. PK is motivated to perform, 6. Worst case in two years PK gets a UFA offer and we do or don't keep him past that time. It would have to be a huge offer and good luck to him if he chooses to leave after he earned free agency. We could choose to trade him for assets it appears we will lose him with no return. If he earns the right to free agency and he chooses to go, it's his right, and thank you for your great contribution. Point #6 is worst case? That's what I would call a massive understatement. The team loses their biggest star, one of he best D men in the league at the age of 27. It would be a disaster that would set the team back years. No amount of picks/prospects makes up for that level of talent & any GM that thinks that should be fired. 6 is the worst case, but the team is more important than any one player. Richard, Belveau, Ferguson, Robinson, Lafleur, they are all gone, but the blue, blanc rouge is still there. An exhorbitant contract might keep the player and the team will suffer. Sure I want to keep PK, but I also want to marry Jessica Simpson and if she rejects what I am able to offer her, I have to accept it and move on.
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Subban
Jul 7, 2014 17:00:02 GMT -5
Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 7, 2014 17:00:02 GMT -5
Understood. But there's still the concern that Subban's camp is playing excessive hardball. I heard that Subban's side is looking for $9.5 million a year. I think it gets done at $8.5 million.
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Subban
Jul 7, 2014 19:33:39 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 7, 2014 19:33:39 GMT -5
Understood. But there's still the concern that Subban's camp is playing excessive hardball. I heard that Subban's side is looking for $9.5 million a year. I think it gets done at $8.5 million. I wouldn't be comfortable with 9.5 million.... But if Phaneuf is worth 7.5 then...................
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Subban
Jul 7, 2014 19:48:03 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on Jul 7, 2014 19:48:03 GMT -5
Understood. But there's still the concern that Subban's camp is playing excessive hardball. I heard that Subban's side is looking for $9.5 million a year. I think it gets done at $8.5 million. Are you confident in the source, BH? That could be the opening bid from PK's side.
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Subban
Jul 7, 2014 23:49:34 GMT -5
Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 7, 2014 23:49:34 GMT -5
I heard that Subban's side is looking for $9.5 million a year. I think it gets done at $8.5 million. Are you confident in the source, BH? That could be the opening bid from PK's side. Not totally. Heard it from someone who heard it from someone. But it makes sense from PK's side. Go in with the most aggressive number you can. PK has a lot of leverage on Bergevin this year, but only up to a point. I think both sides really want to get a deal done, but this is the bargain Berg made 2 years ago. I would be doing the same thing if I was his agent.
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Subban
Jul 9, 2014 8:03:58 GMT -5
Post by Patty Roy on Jul 9, 2014 8:03:58 GMT -5
The deal will get done before arbitration. This. If it goes to arbitration, it would be a disaster.
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Subban
Jul 9, 2014 8:42:25 GMT -5
Post by blny on Jul 9, 2014 8:42:25 GMT -5
I wonder how much the Toews/Kane negotiations are playing into his ... Their starting asking price is in the tens ....
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Subban
Jul 9, 2014 10:32:46 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on Jul 9, 2014 10:32:46 GMT -5
Good recap by Eric Engels www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=82Arbitration for Subban and Eller puts Deadline on Negotiations July 8, 2014,
Montreal Canadiens development camp is quietly underway over at Brossard, and these guys have you well covered for it.
www.habseyesontheprize.com/
As you undoubtedly know by now, P.K. Subban and Lars Eller have each filed for arbitration. As Elliotte Friedman of Hockey Night in Canada reported, doing so ensures that neither can sign an offer sheet. If things go as far as hearings for both of them, the club can elect for one or two-year settlements.
We might actually get there with Eller, as he presents an interesting case as a player who's shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with lapses in confidence and long cold spells. His 2014 playoffs will be the strongest card he holds, but the rest of it is spotty at best. The hope is that it doesn't get there.
Arbitration is a sticky process. Each side is presenting a case against each other, not just presenting the case for why they're right. Feelings get hurt. Relationships become fractured.
Don't expect Subban and the Canadiens to skate down this path. Yes, their negotiation is contentious by nature. Marc Bergevin won big last time around. He held the cards, and he played them. Since then, Subban's won a Norris and was one of the best players in the 2014 playoffs, and a couple of years from unrestricted free agency, he's got the hammer cocked. A short-term deal serves no one's interests. Subban will request the max, which could be as much as $10M per over an eight-year term, and Bergevin's sole mandate will be to ensure they can come to terms on something a little bit more friendly for the team.
An arbitration settlement not only makes it entirely likely that Subban jumps ship as an unrestricted free agent down the line, it guarantees that Subban gets paid a huge number over one or two years. The cap will go up, the ask will get higher, and this thing will spiral to a place no one wants to see it go to.
Here's the good news: Dates for arbitration go from July 20th to August 4th. Twenty players--league-wide--filed. You have to be hopeful Subban and Eller get settled in the very near future. *****************
If the Canadiens make the kind of commitment most expect them to, turning Subban into Montreal's richest player by a significant amount, does that not speak to their trust that he'd make a fine captain of the team? Seems pretty obvious that they've identified him as a key leader. Would they bridge that decision with Markov and Plekanec as worthy candidates, making him an assistant for the time being?
The captaincy will be spoken about just as much as Subban's negotiation until both dossiers are settled, and a thought occurred to me: If Brendan Gallagher had just two more years of experience under his belt, would he not be a consensus pick for the role? Hard to make a player who's still on his entry-level contract a captain in the NHL, but were he a 5-year vet, he'd be the young guy no one has an issue naming.
The Habs have some solid leaders in place in their young players. Price, Subban and Gallagher have the goods. They have to be hoping that Max Pacioretty, David Desharnais, Eller, Alex Galchenyuk take on more too. They have some solid vets to support all of that in Markov, Plekanec, Mike Weaver, newcomer Manny Malholtra, Brandon Prust, Dale Weise and Travis Moen. It's pretty important considering what they lost in Brian Gionta and Josh Gorges.
And let's not forget Gerard Gallant. He was Michel Therrien's good cop. A number of players confided in him, trusted him, took comfort in the positive reinforcement he offered. Replacing him is probably Bergevin and Therrien's biggest task of the summer, especially with Bergevin rewarding Therrien with that long-term contract.
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Subban
Jul 9, 2014 14:44:01 GMT -5
Post by jkr on Jul 9, 2014 14:44:01 GMT -5
John Lu tweeted today that Subban's arbitration day is August 1. Just over 3 weeks to get a contract done.
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Subban
Jul 9, 2014 15:50:59 GMT -5
Post by christrpn on Jul 9, 2014 15:50:59 GMT -5
Toews and Kane: AAV $10.5M Term: 8yrs Total: $84M
Important to note that there is a $44M signing bonus included in that price. So technically it's an actual salary or $5M a year. makes it good for a cap floor if ever they need to move one of them
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