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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 17:20:07 GMT -5
Just heard Nick Kypreos say Montreal is actively pursuing Daniel Winnick .... I'll cry, yes I will ....
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Post by Douper on Feb 24, 2015 17:23:47 GMT -5
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Post by Douper on Feb 24, 2015 17:26:34 GMT -5
Just heard Nick Kypreos say Montreal is actively pursuing Daniel Winnick .... I'll cry, yes I will .... Why? The guy is +15 on the Leafs! He and Robidas are the only two +10 or more. I'd take him on the 4th line for sure.
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Post by HFTO on Feb 24, 2015 17:26:37 GMT -5
That's the dream here Douper I agree give the kid a chance.
HFTO
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Post by stoat on Feb 24, 2015 17:26:49 GMT -5
I can't say the trade makes me feel good,
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Post by franko on Feb 24, 2015 17:56:15 GMT -5
I can't say the trade makes me feel good, I'm in a "meh" state of mind about it. not sure that Sekac got a fair shake (that's about expected with the way this coach treats rookies) . . . I wish him well and hope SP does well too. and that MB will get a scorer. and that MT will ignite the PP. other than that and a Cup . . .
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Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 18:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 18:42:29 GMT -5
Not here, and not because of the trade. DSP will not be a scorer. He got 1.03 ppg the year he was drafted in 2010. Same year...Toffoli was 1.22, not a huge difference. Trouble is they developed differently. In the next season, DSP dropped to .99 PPG. Toffoli, as any developing juniour should do, rose to 1.59 ppg. He kept improving while DSP took a step back. That's the first red flag with drafted players. If they do worse, while playing in the same league....look out. I think 3rd line is tops for DSP. He'll be a very responsible player who finishes his checks and won't cost you in your end (a perfect Therrien style player). Toffoli is going to be an all-star or close to it. He'll reach 40+ goals per year. Looking back to the trade and under the right circumstances, Sekac might (and that's a big might, granted) hit 30 goals in a year. I'm fairly sure he'll get you 20 once he gets used to the smaller ice and the pace of the league. I also don't think he'll cost you in your own zone. He's flashier, though, and makes higher risk plays (the exact opposite of a Therrien style player). He loves DLR. DeLaRose is a safe player. He anticipates well defensively and goes to the right places. He's a safe player. No wonder MT loves him. How much safety, though, can you handle if he can't score? That jury is still out of course as DLR is jut 19 and still getting used to North America and the smaller ice. I sure hope he adapts well offensively because he'd be a terrific 2nd line centre if he can score.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 18:44:27 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 24, 2015 18:58:26 GMT -5
I think we gave up a potential scorer for a potential defensively aware player. The issue is this team needs goals.
Everything is ok as long as Carey holds the fort but if that stops were done.
I hope DSP blossoms in Montreal and he gives some jam that we'll need in the playoffs, but i fear in the long run we'll end up with a 3rd liner and the ducks will have a legit 2nd line guy.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 24, 2015 19:04:13 GMT -5
I have a feeling MB's not done.
Considering his wire-snipe of Vanek last year, I'm going to wait...hoping he bolsters our scoring.
I like the go-through-a-wall types.
They make things happen.
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2015 19:08:48 GMT -5
www.tsn.ca/video/insider-trading-defencmen-in-demand-1.215283Insiders report from tonight. Gotta get about 2 mins in before talking about trade. McKenzie basically summed it up. Sekac wasn't a Therrien type of player, at least from MT's pov. He didn't trust him to play him. DSP will come in and be a blunt instrument. Lebrun says that he doesn't see Lupul as a fit and would be surprised if many really stepped up, but especially Montreal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 19:09:27 GMT -5
Didn't see this one coming. Sekac, we hardly knew you. Other than rarely scoring, I liked what I saw. Something about him that MB didn't like, lack of hockey sense maybe? Don't know much about Pelly. Plays a gritty game, doesn't he? Can always use more grit . Trades aren't necessarily about moving who you don't like. If you want to get something worth trading for, you'll have to give up someone you DO like.
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Post by habsask on Feb 24, 2015 19:15:45 GMT -5
Caught me by surprise as well.
This from Hockey Inside/Out:
“You look at our needs, and I think Devante fits what we’re looking for,” Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin said when he met with the media in St. Louis after the trade was announced. “We wish Jiri the best with Anaheim.”
The GM added: “At the end of the day, we paid a price for Devante. Jiri was on the right track from the start with us, though.”
Bergevin said it was a trade that was good for both teams, adding he had been looking to add a right-handed shot. The only other Canadiens forwards with right-handed shots are Brendan Gallagher, P.A. Parenteau, Dale Weise and Christian Thomas.
-------------------
I'll give it a year or two before assessing.
I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious.
Cheers
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 24, 2015 19:33:31 GMT -5
Caught me by surprise as well. This from Hockey Inside/Out: “You look at our needs, and I think Devante fits what we’re looking for,” Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin said when he met with the media in St. Louis after the trade was announced. “We wish Jiri the best with Anaheim.” The GM added: “At the end of the day, we paid a price for Devante. Jiri was on the right track from the start with us, though.” Bergevin said it was a trade that was good for both teams, adding he had been looking to add a right-handed shot. The only other Canadiens forwards with right-handed shots are Brendan Gallagher, P.A. Parenteau, Dale Weise and Christian Thomas. ------------------- I'll give it a year or two before assessing. I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious. Cheers Nice to see you checking in Habsask ... wish I had remembered to tell you but Willie, Franko and I met for supper and to watch the game from a pub ... maybe next time ... Dis
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Feb 24, 2015 19:36:43 GMT -5
These threads would be an awful lot shorter if they didn't all turn into a Therrien bashing session which is laughable because he cannot be totally responsible for every bad player or stat on the Habs and receive no credit for developing PK, Gallagher or being in first place.
I think you have to give the benefit of doubt to the Habs on this. So far Bergevin has not made many bad moves and they have some of the best minds in hockey in Timmins, Dudley and others assessing talent, they have had plenty of time to see Sekac in games and practice and get a feel on where he may be in the future. So far he has as much of a chance to be Marcel Hossa as he does Marion Hossa but he certainly won't be the next Malkin. If Bergevin was that high on Sekac there were other assets they may have offered but I'm thinking they knew exactly what they were doing.
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Post by Disp on Feb 24, 2015 19:39:41 GMT -5
Not here, and not because of the trade. DSP will not be a scorer. He got 1.03 ppg the year he was drafted in 2010. Same year...Toffoli was 1.22, not a huge difference. Trouble is they developed differently. In the next season, DSP dropped to .99 PPG. Toffoli, as any developing juniour should do, rose to 1.59 ppg. He kept improving while DSP took a step back. That's the first red flag with drafted players. If they do worse, while playing in the same league....look out. I think 3rd line is tops for DSP. He'll be a very responsible player who finishes his checks and won't cost you in your end (a perfect Therrien style player). Toffoli is going to be an all-star or close to it. He'll reach 40+ goals per year. *snip* Check Getzlaf's last year of junior. Development isn't always linear. I'm sure there are lots of other examples, Getzlaf was the first guy I thought of when I read this.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 24, 2015 19:39:56 GMT -5
They interviewed nate on sportsnet and he played with Smith pelley and nate said he's a big body with a scoring touch. I hope so... Nothing would make me happier than nate being right.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 24, 2015 19:41:08 GMT -5
Caught me by surprise as well. This from Hockey Inside/Out: “You look at our needs, and I think Devante fits what we’re looking for,” Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin said when he met with the media in St. Louis after the trade was announced. “We wish Jiri the best with Anaheim.” The GM added: “At the end of the day, we paid a price for Devante. Jiri was on the right track from the start with us, though.” Bergevin said it was a trade that was good for both teams, adding he had been looking to add a right-handed shot. The only other Canadiens forwards with right-handed shots are Brendan Gallagher, P.A. Parenteau, Dale Weise and Christian Thomas. ------------------- I'll give it a year or two before assessing. I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious. Cheers Nice to see you checking in Habsask ... wish I had remembered to tell you but Willie, Franko and I met for supper and to watch the game from a pub ... maybe next time ... Dis For sure Dis. It would be great to get together again and have habsask join us.
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Post by PTH on Feb 24, 2015 19:59:02 GMT -5
Caught me by surprise as well. I'll give it a year or two before assessing. I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious. Cheers Pretty much all I have to say, as well. I find commenting on here to be a real pain when I can expect to read that Galchenyuk's flu is clearly MT's fault.
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Post by duster on Feb 24, 2015 20:10:44 GMT -5
I'll give it a year or two before assessing. I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious. Cheers I think Smith-Pelly will help but I'm not sure Sekac was given a fair shake by MT. As far as MT bashing is concerned, I think large part of the Canadiens success this year is due to Carey Price's exceptional play rather than superior coaching. As you said, time will tell.
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Post by habsask on Feb 24, 2015 20:57:18 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 21:12:04 GMT -5
Just heard Nick Kypreos say Montreal is actively pursuing Daniel Winnick .... I'll cry, yes I will .... Why? The guy is +15 on the Leafs! He and Robidas are the only two +10 or more. I'd take him on the 4th line for sure. We don't need any more 4th line players ... Prust, Weise, Malholtra, De La Rose (for now), Smith-Pelly (possibly), .... What we need are top six forwards.
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Post by jkr on Feb 24, 2015 21:30:41 GMT -5
Caught me by surprise as well. I'll give it a year or two before assessing. I'm not a big Therrien fan but I find the continual MT bashing....ahh....'interesting'. It seems he has gotten the Habs into 1st place in the East & 3rd in the League by continually "misusing" his players. Curious. Cheers Pretty much all I have to say, as well. I find commenting on here to be a real pain when I can expect to read that Galchenyuk's flu is clearly MT's fault. Therrien sneezed in his direction on the plane ride home.
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Post by jkr on Feb 24, 2015 21:32:45 GMT -5
This reminds me somewhat of the Hodgson for Kassian one for one swap of a couple years ago - the "skill" guy for the "tough" guy. It looked like Van had won this at the time it was made. However, Hodgson has regressed this year ( 2 goals) and Kassian is actually out scoring him. I guess my point is that sometimes these trades take several seasons to play out. If they acquired Smith Pelly for the playoffs, then this trade has 20 games and a playoff run to pan out No it doesn't. These guys are both 22. It really could take several years.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 22:41:55 GMT -5
If they acquired Smith Pelly for the playoffs, then this trade has 20 games and a playoff run to pan out No it doesn't. These guys are both 22. It really could take several years. If they acquired him for this playoff run to get bigger and grittier ... The future holds no impact on why we acquired him now. We might never make the playoffs again for all we know That arguement though can be used as a reason to keep Sekac ....he is only 22, it could take him several years to pan out, so why trade him now?? The reason, of course, is because MB wants Smith-Pelly for THIS YEARS playoff grind
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Post by PTH on Feb 25, 2015 0:43:34 GMT -5
Overall, I think we have to see this trade as being 2 guys who couldn't quite fit into their current teams, in Sekac's case I think we've already got so many finesse forwards that it was hard to find him a slot, in DSP's case, I think Anaheim had too many big guys with average speed, and lacked finesse.
Beauchemin was on a phone interview on l'antichambre, and he said that Sekac would almost certainly start out on the top line with Getzlaf and Perry, that most of the Ducks forwards had gotten chances there but that no one seemed to gel.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2015 2:42:21 GMT -5
Not here, and not because of the trade. DSP will not be a scorer. He got 1.03 ppg the year he was drafted in 2010. Same year...Toffoli was 1.22, not a huge difference. Trouble is they developed differently. In the next season, DSP dropped to .99 PPG. Toffoli, as any developing juniour should do, rose to 1.59 ppg. He kept improving while DSP took a step back. That's the first red flag with drafted players. If they do worse, while playing in the same league....look out. I think 3rd line is tops for DSP. He'll be a very responsible player who finishes his checks and won't cost you in your end (a perfect Therrien style player). Toffoli is going to be an all-star or close to it. He'll reach 40+ goals per year. *snip* Check Getzlaf's last year of junior. Development isn't always linear. I'm sure there are lots of other examples, Getzlaf was the first guy I thought of when I read this. No its not always linear. To use your example, the year Getzlaf was drafted, he scored at a .97 per game clip. The following year it was 1.53, but he was obviously injured somewhere in there because he only played 49 games. He fell off in the 3rd year, which was his 4th year of juniour. He was likely ready to move on by then, but couldn't because of the NHL/CHL agreement. Ofr he may have had a nagging injury or something else that caused him to fall off, because after that it was up, up and away. You do have to look at each case separately, but far more often than not, a fall off, especially in the year after a player is drafted, is a concern. I'm not suggesting Smith Pelley is a lost cause. He's only 22 and has yet to play a large number of games in the NHL. I just don't expect him to be a top 6 winger. I freely admit I'm an MT basher. He's not an idiot, since you don't get to be an NHL coach if you're an idiot. I see that 'his' success is more likely a product of Carey Price having a career year than any special prowess on Therrien's part and I prefer to be proactive in making changes, rather than waiting for absolute proof that I'm right. I could be wrong too, and Therrien could be the second coming of Scotty Bowman. Time will tell.
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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2015 6:56:41 GMT -5
I freely admit I'm an MT basher. He's not an idiot, since you don't get to be an NHL coach if you're an idiot. I see that 'his' success is more likely a product of Carey Price having a career year than any special prowess on Therrien's part and I prefer to be proactive in making changes, rather than waiting for absolute proof that I'm right. I could be wrong too, and Therrien could be the second coming of Scotty Bowman. Time will tell. Carey or not, MT seems to be doing what he needs to be (wait, was that my outside voice?). in his favour, he's not JM. he has the team in first place (sure, base the record on Carey, but it's a team game. we could have Fleury!) final props will come when the Habs win the Cup under him. until then (or maybe just until the end of Lent) I will bite my tongue.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 25, 2015 7:37:06 GMT -5
Overall, I think we have to see this trade as being 2 guys who couldn't quite fit into their current teams, in Sekac's case I think we've already got so many finesse forwards that it was hard to find him a slot, in DSP's case, I think Anaheim had too many big guys with average speed, and lacked finesse. Beauchemin was on a phone interview on l'antichambre, and he said that Sekac would almost certainly start out on the top line with Getzlaf and Perry, that most of the Ducks forwards had gotten chances there but that no one seemed to gel. I tend to agree. We've been trying to become a "heavier" team that is much more difficult to play against, because the teams that have success in the playoffs play that style. Think of all those Western powerhouses. You obviously want a balance, but let's face it we're still pretty "light" up front. Desharnais, Plekanec, Gallagher, Bournival, Malhotra, Parenteau, Thomas... that's a lot of guys who can get pushed off the puck pretty easily (or at least with varying degrees of easiness). Consider that our closest "next ones", the guys we would call up in case of injuries during a long playoff run, are guys like Dumont, Andrighetto and Bowman and there wasn't much help on the way. Now this isn't to say that Sekac is soft, or plays a light game, because he doesn't. But he doesn't play as heavy as Smith-Pelly does so we got incrementally better in that department. And while it would have been nice to acquire Smith-Pelly without giving up Sekac it doesn't work that. You gotta give to get. We weren't going to get him for Bournival and a draft pick, because in case you didn't notice Anaheim currently sits second in the West, so they weren't going to care about picks and prospects. As you said, they needed a little more finesse, we needed a little more weight. Did we get better in the scoring department? Probably not, but considering that Sekac wasn't scoring anyways it doesn't really change anything for this team, at this moment. Not for scoring anyways. The danger of course is that Sekac blossoms into a 30 goal scorer. Could happen, though he's never done it at any level, anywhere. But by the same token Smith-Pelly could blossom into a 25 goal scorer too, with more physicality. We have enough talent evaluators in the organization now, and they have yet to really blow a trade yet, so we will see. In Marc the Mover we trust, I suppose.
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