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Post by GMan77 on Apr 9, 2003 2:35:45 GMT -5
While I agree with the general sentiment, especially with the excellent Loungo/Fleury analogy, I disagree with your assessment of Montreal's needs. While its true we don't have much size in the organization, especially at center, I think our overall skill level, and our depth on the blueline, are much more important issues. As to overall skill level as I said I'd take an 88 PF over a 91 skill forward but I wouldn't take a 60 PH over the 91... in other words I'm not talking about sacrificing a significant amount of skill level, we're talking negligeable difference here. As for blueline, you never have enough, but with 3 potential studs we can definitely afford to grab one in the 2nd round or with next year's top pick. We don't even have a PF longshot in our system for crying out loud. While not impossible to win without a huge lineup I'd point out that the smaller teams who do well play in the West (Detroit, now Minnesota)... 82 games in the East in another story. (Ottawa couldn't convert in the playoffs for years and now they're finally getting bigger, PHI, TOR, NYI, BOS... all big, NJ might be the smallest but they're the expection to the rule... and I'm talking about adding ONE big guy, we'd still be among the smallest in the East) Markov & Komi are locks, Rivet will be here a long time too. Hainsey is a wild-card but I'm confident he'll be fine. After that all we need are bodies to fill out the roster, they can be found by trade or UFA rather easily. If Hainsey craps out, we can trade one of our forwards who will be expendable with the arrival of the PF to grab a decent D. And that's even if we need to replace him... because without Hainsey we'll have: LD: Markov, Souray, Beauchemin, Bouillon RD: Komi, Rivet, ?? (sign a vet UFA PP point man and we're set) If a player that is substancially better than the best available PF slide down to 10th then fine take him, but as I said if not that big of a difference I go with the PF to fit what I maintain is our #1 need. I wouldn't mind him picking up a PF "project" in the later rounds, and in the end although I really want us to pick a PF... I won't scream bloody murder if grab some amazing player that unexpectedly slipped to 10th. ... ah, I still want a PF  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 9, 2003 5:54:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind him picking up a PF "project" in the later rounds, and in the end although I really want us to pick a PF... I won't scream bloody murder if grab some amazing player that unexpectedly slipped to 10th. ... ah, I still want a PF well that is what we did last year...Ferland, Deveaux, Lambert, etc............ |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 9, 2003 10:16:52 GMT -5
Read that list a few times and tell me that it doesn't scare the heck out of you to think our offensive core in 3-4 years could be...that. **shiver** Komisarek, Markov and Hainsey are the making of a real solid blue line. HABS desperatly need a special offensive player and this year is the time to get it. If we pick yet another D, I am gonna be sick... Thank you, Doc. I've been saying this forever. We are missing that elite forward, the 40 goal/100 point guy that can carry a team on his back and win a game all by himself... think Peter Forsberg. Somebody THAT good. We have some nice prospects in the system (Hossa, Higgins, Perezhogin, Milroy), but that's all they are. Nice. This may not be the year to try and move up. Maybe Zherdev, Staal, or Horton aren't all that special in a way that Dany Heatley or Marian Gaborik are. But if they are, I say go for it. I would be willing to deal Markov plus our 1st to get into the to get the guy Savard really wants. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 9, 2003 10:56:56 GMT -5
The guy you guys want is available next year
He is named Ovechkin. Alex Ovechkin. Kovalchuk talent without the baggage.
It will take one heck of a tanking job or one hell of an offer to get him here.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 9, 2003 11:27:33 GMT -5
I'm afraid Ovechkin will be so head and shoulders above everybody else in the draft that you will either need he #1 pick to get him or sell your soul in draft picks/players/prospects. Savard put a pretty good, some might say a too rich an offer to get Kovalchuk (Garon, Markov, two 1sts) and even that wasn't enough.
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Post by StickHandler on Apr 9, 2003 19:48:42 GMT -5
The very fact that people are debating between drafting a power forward, a talented forward or a solid d-man proves that we have holes to fill just about everywhere but in front of the net. To me, that means one thing: Best Player Available!
And who is that? I have no clue but I bet Savard, Madden and Dorion will have a list ready and I'm sure they'll take whoever is on top at that time.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 9, 2003 20:33:34 GMT -5
Bernier was listed at 6'1". I've seen Ribeiro listed at that. What gives?
I think Bernier is a lot bigger (and taller) than Ribeiro.
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 9, 2003 20:44:09 GMT -5
Bernier was listed at 6'1". I've seen Ribeiro listed at that. What gives? I think Bernier is a lot bigger (and taller) than Ribeiro. Bernier is only 17..so he can grow another inch or two on his 6'2' frame according to HF He also weighs about 60 pounds more than Ribs did when we drafted him  |
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Post by HabzFan on Apr 9, 2003 20:58:48 GMT -5
Here is the top 30 according to Central Bureau Scouting: --CBC prospect ranking ------------------- 1. Nikolai Zherdev RW CSKA Moscow 6'02/182 2. Milan Michalek RW Ceske Budejovice 6'02/211 3. Marc-Andre Fleury G Cape Breton 6’00/170 4. Eric Staal C Peterbourgh 6’03/185 5. Braydon Coburn D Portland 6’02/170 6. Nathan Horton C Oshawa 6’03/210 7. Zach Parise C North Dakota 5’11/180 8. Robert Nilsson C/W Leksands 5'09/180 9. Dustin Brown C Guelph 6’01/203 10. Tomas Vanek LW Minnesota 6’02/207 11. Denis Ezhov D Lada Togliatti 6’00/200 12. Steve Bernier C Moncton 6’01/215 13. Patrick O’Sullivan C Mississaga 5’11/160 14. Ryan Suter D USA U18 6’01/185 15. K. Glazatchev LW Yaroslavl 2 6’00/174 16. Dion Phaneuf D Red Deer 6’02/210 17. Petr Vrana C Halifax 5’09/160 18. Jeff Carter C S.S. Marie 6'03/193 19. M.A. Pouliet C Rimouski 6’02/180 20. Igor Mirnov RW Dynamo 6’00/187 21. Andrei Kastsitsyn C/W CSKA Moscow 6’01/190 22. Dan Fritsch C Sarnia 6’01/195 23. Richard Stehlik D Sherbrooke 6’04/240 24. Vojtech Polak LW Karlovy Vary 5’10/180 25. Anthony Stewart C Kingston 6’02/210 26. Brent Seabrooke D Lethbridge 6’02/221 27. Mark Stuart D Colorado College 6’02/212 28. Ryan Getzlaf C Calgary 6’03/190 29. Corey Crawford G Moncton 6’02/170 30. Ivan Khomutov RW Elektrostal 6’03/200 Montreal trade with the Preds to move from 10th to 7th... 1. Florida Panthers - Zherdev (Toss up between Zherdev + Michalek) 2. Carolina Hurricanes - Michalek (See above) 3. Pittsburgh Penguins - Fleury (Goaltending Situation in Pit. is crap at best) 4. Columbus Blue Jackets - Staal (Franchise Center) 5. Buffalo Sabres - Coburn (Franchise D-Man) 6. San Jose Sharks - Nilsson (Already have Marleau + Sturm, Won't take Horton) 7. Montreal Canadiens - Horton (Best possible situation...) 8. Atlanta Thrashers - Brown 9. Calgary Flames - Parise 10. Nashville Predators - Vanek |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 9, 2003 21:02:07 GMT -5
6. San Jose Sharks - Nilsson (Already have Marleau + Sturm, Won't take Horton) 7. Montreal Canadiens - Horton (Best possible situation...) dream on bud.. btw Sturm is a winger for the Sharks... |
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Post by HabzFan on Apr 9, 2003 21:09:31 GMT -5
dream on bud.. btw Sturm is a winger for the Sharks... One way or another, Ricci as a 2nd line center and McCauley as a 3rd isn't too shabby... Wing help is needed regardless of if Sturm is a Center. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 10, 2003 5:47:36 GMT -5
but what does Sturm have to do with Horton in this case?
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 10, 2003 11:28:03 GMT -5
but what does Sturm have to do with Horton in this case? Marc; Are you convinced that four years from now Horton will be that much better than Bernier or that the probability of him making the NHL is that much higher than Bernier? I think If we get Bernier at 10 we will have made a big improvement in the calibre of the team. We need two way players who can score and post good +/- stats. I share your liking of Bernier. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 10, 2003 11:33:59 GMT -5
Horton is better. He may end up being very close to Joe Thornton by the time he is 25 years old.
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Post by Patty Roy on Apr 10, 2003 17:20:42 GMT -5
Montreal trade with the Preds to move from 10th to 7th... 1. Florida Panthers - Zherdev (Toss up between Zherdev + Michalek) 2. Carolina Hurricanes - Michalek (See above) 3. Pittsburgh Penguins - Fleury (Goaltending Situation in Pit. is crap at best) 4. Columbus Blue Jackets - Staal (Franchise Center) 5. Buffalo Sabres - Coburn (Franchise D-Man) 6. San Jose Sharks - Nilsson (Already have Marleau + Sturm, Won't take Horton) 7. Montreal Canadiens - Horton (Best possible situation...) 8. Atlanta Thrashers - Brown 9. Calgary Flames - Parise 10. Nashville Predators - Vanek That doesn't seem to far off...but even if the Habs moved up to 7th, i would be shocked if Horton is still available. The way i see it, there is a definite top 6 (and probably 7 with Vanek) that will be gone in the top 9.... Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Michalek, Fleury, Coburn, Vanek. So assuming those 7 go at some point in the top 9, the Habs are then looking at guys like Parise, Brown, Bernier, Nilsson, Getzlaf and Phaneuf at #10. From the 2nd hand information i've been able to gather, i would rank those players in the following order, keeping the Habs needs in mind. 1. Dustin Brown 2. Steve Bernier 3. Dion Phaneauf 4. Robert Nilsson 5. Ryan Getzlaf 6. Zach Parise Basically i would take the highest available guy on that list at #10. That's probably going to be Bernier... |
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Post by montreal on Apr 10, 2003 21:37:25 GMT -5
Did anyone see Vanek's goal in OT tonight? Wow. Nice move, but the goalie should of had it. He did a spin move around the defensemen and came out from behind the net and surprised the Michigan goalie. Bet his draft stock just went up. I'd be surprised if he's around when we pick, but that opens the doors for other guys like Nilsson, Praise, Suter, Stuart, Corburn, etc...
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Post by habruti on Apr 10, 2003 22:16:53 GMT -5
Did anyone see Vanek's goal in OT tonight? Wow. Nice move, but the goalie should of had it. He did a spin move around the defensemen and came out from behind the net and surprised the Michigan goalie. Bet his draft stock just went up. I'd be surprised if he's around when we pick, but that opens the doors for other guys like Nilsson, Praise, Suter, Stuart, Corburn, etc... I think we should have a shot at one of Suter, Parise, Brown or Nilsson. Unfortunatly I canèt see Vanek drop off the top 10. I personally hope that Fleury gets drafted in the top 5 so that CGY will draft a forward and IMO they would go for Parise to play along the side of Nystrom. I would not be surprised for the top 10 to look like this: 1. Florida: Horton 2. Carolina: Staal 3. Pittsberg: Fleury 4. Columbus: Zherdev 5. Buffalo: Coburn 6. San Jose: Michalek 7. Nashville: Vanek 8. Atlanta: Suter 9. Calgary: Parise 10. Montreal: Brown |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 11, 2003 11:16:47 GMT -5
I think we should have a shot at one of Suter, Parise, Brown or Nilsson. Unfortunatly I canèt see Vanek drop off the top 10. I personally hope that Fleury gets drafted in the top 5 so that CGY will draft a forward and IMO they would go for Parise to play along the side of Nystrom. I would not be surprised for the top 10 to look like this: 1. Florida: Horton 2. Carolina: Staal 3. Pittsberg: Fleury 4. Columbus: Zherdev 5. Buffalo: Coburn 6. San Jose: Michalek 7. Nashville: Vanek 8. Atlanta: Suter 9. Calgary: Parise 10. Montreal: Brown Why Brown instead of Bernier? |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 11, 2003 14:43:43 GMT -5
Why Brown instead of Bernier? I believe Brown has more offensive upside. From HF: A New York native, Brown is a player with great acceleration, top-notch stickhandling ability and soft hands around the net. Dustin has exemplary hockey sense and maturity and last year he was named the OHL Scholastic player of the year for providing a high standard of play combined with Academic excellence. Brown has gotten off to a superb start to his sophomore year this season and with a good finish, Dustin could sneak in the top 5 for the 2003 NHL Entry Draft. One thing the scouts might expect from Brown is to become more aggressive physically and mentally on the ice. (Photo courtesy of the Guelph Storm hockey club)He's rated a 6 feet 189 by HF...so he is probably already bigger because that list was made a few months ago. I would have NO problem if we drafted him. |
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Post by turnbuckle on Apr 11, 2003 19:04:49 GMT -5
In a lot of mock drafts over at Hockey's Future and in draft rankings, Corey Perry isn't getting much recognition in the top two rounds, but one has to wonder if he wouldn't be a nice pick with the 54th choice if he's still available. The kid is having a very strong playoff for London, and is second in the OHL in scoring. He's a little on the skinny side, but he's 6-2 with lots of scoring skills, and can fill out.
Anyone seen Perry play this season?
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Post by turnbuckle on Apr 11, 2003 19:20:43 GMT -5
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 11, 2003 20:23:13 GMT -5
He's rated a 6 feet 189 by HF...so he is probably already bigger because that list was made a few months ago. I would have NO problem if we drafted him. He's listed 6'1" 203 now and I don't think he's all that skinny. I've seen him in person and IMO could easily see him around 210+ by the time he suits up in the NHL. I would have no problem if we got him either but I doubt we have a shot, we need a couple of d-men to go early IMO. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Apr 11, 2003 20:28:08 GMT -5
well we'll be getting someone good for sure...or at least have the chance to draft someone good for sure..Brown or Bernier or Parise or Vanek or Nillson or Suter... I can't wait for this draft !  |
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 11, 2003 20:42:52 GMT -5
In fact I've been watching Brown play all night. The Kit/Gue games are on local tv here, it's 3-3 right now about 8 mins left.
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Post by jl.roberts on Apr 11, 2003 21:05:38 GMT -5
I've seen Perry play many times. He's good with the puck, excellent finisher and playmaker. And, as you said having a great playoff with the Knights. He is 6'2, maybe could even make it to 6'3. He would, however, need to pack on 20 pounds or so. I'll say one thing for sure; I like Corey Perry alot more than I like Marcel Hossa. |
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 11, 2003 21:29:49 GMT -5
Well no more Brown, him and the Storm are out in 5. Lost 5-4 in OT.
I swear Brown played 35+ mins at least.
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Post by FormerLurker on Apr 11, 2003 23:42:23 GMT -5
He's listed 6'1" 203 now and I don't think he's all that skinny. I've seen him in person and IMO could easily see him around 210+ by the time he suits up in the NHL. I would have no problem if we got him either but I doubt we have a shot, we need a couple of d-men to go early IMO. I'm really starting to like what I've read about Brown, but the consensus seems to be that he won't be available at 10. There's a very good chance that the top seven will be, in no particular order: Horton, Staal, Zherdev, Michalek, Vanek, Coburn, Fleury. So we'd have to trade up two positions with Atlanta. Or hope that Atlanta takes Suter, then we swap picks with Calgary. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Apr 12, 2003 12:17:59 GMT -5
I'm jumping in when the pool is already crowded with sharks, but what the hey.
BPA, I say. Grab the best talent available, thereby maximising your assets. You can then use those assets to deal for what you perceive you really need.
If you merely go for what you think you need you won't necessarily be getting maximum talent value for your pick.
If when it's your turn to pick and the BPA happens to also be exactly what you're looking for - Bingo! If not, grab the BPA rather than some guy who happens to be big but is ranked 10 places down the order from your choice. If you don't grab the BPA you'll just be helping to sell more copies of La presse and Le Journal for all the wrong reasons.
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 12, 2003 22:11:30 GMT -5
I'm jumping in when the pool is already crowded with sharks, but what the hey. BPA, I say. Grab the best talent available, thereby maximising your assets. You can then use those assets to deal for what you perceive you really need. If you merely go for what you think you need you won't necessarily be getting maximum talent value for your pick. If when it's your turn to pick and the BPA happens to also be exactly what you're looking for - Bingo! If not, grab the BPA rather than some guy who happens to be big but is ranked 10 places down the order from your choice. If you don't grab the BPA you'll just be helping to sell more copies of La presse and Le Journal for all the wrong reasons. I agree 100%. If Brown is still available when we step up then chances are he will be the BPA. |
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Post by Habsolution on Apr 12, 2003 23:08:11 GMT -5
I'm jumping in when the pool is already crowded with sharks, but what the hey. BPA, I say. Grab the best talent available, thereby maximising your assets. You can then use those assets to deal for what you perceive you really need. If you merely go for what you think you need you won't necessarily be getting maximum talent value for your pick. If when it's your turn to pick and the BPA happens to also be exactly what you're looking for - Bingo! If not, grab the BPA rather than some guy who happens to be big but is ranked 10 places down the order from your choice. If you don't grab the BPA you'll just be helping to sell more copies of La presse and Le Journal for all the wrong reasons. Ok let's say the BPA is another small center ? It's going to get tough to trade them all ... Plekanec-Ribeiro-Juneau-Perreault + someone else ... supposing Higgins and Koivu are locks ... |
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