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Post by Forum Ghost on Feb 1, 2009 13:43:26 GMT -5
Koivu needs a strong supporting cast to hold it together Every great captain needs a strong supporting cast to hold it together. Koivu is not alone in this regard. You think Yzerman could've accomplished what he did without Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov, Draper, etc.? What about Sakic if he didn't have Forsberg, Roy, Foote, Drury, etc.? Koivu is a victim of bad timing. He was chosen captain during the Rejean Houle era when the Habs iced teams that had the talent level of an AHL club. I doubt that Gainey, Carbo, Richard or Beliveau could've brought Cups to Montreal with those rosters. What pains me is that Koivu gets grilled when things go bad, but never gets credit when things go well. He captained the club to playoff upsets in 2002 and 2004 (the latter being the greatest playoff comeback in Habs' history) and nobody gives him any credit. He captained the club to 1st place in the East last year and doesn't even get a pat on the back. If people are going to criticize him for when the Habs do poorly, the least they can do is give him credit when they do well. |
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Post by PTH on Feb 1, 2009 16:49:57 GMT -5
If people are going to criticize him for when the Habs do poorly, the least they can do is give him credit when they do well. Problem is, most fans are spoiled and only think things are going well when we win a Cup.... inflated expectations are impossible to meet... PS: Koivu's comeback was also the turning point in the '98 upset of the Pens... |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 1, 2009 18:36:00 GMT -5
Koivu needs a strong supporting cast to hold it together Every great captain needs a strong supporting cast to hold it together. Koivu is not alone in this regard. You think Yzerman could've accomplished what he did without Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov, Draper, etc.? What about Sakic if he didn't have Forsberg, Roy, Foote, Drury, etc.? Koivu is a victim of bad timing. He was chosen captain during the Rejean Houle era when the Habs iced teams that had the talent level of an AHL club. I doubt that Gainey, Carbo, Richard or Beliveau could've brought Cups to Montreal with those rosters. What pains me is that Koivu gets grilled when things go bad, but never gets credit when things go well. He captained the club to playoff upsets in 2002 and 2004 (the latter being the greatest playoff comeback in Habs' history) and nobody gives him any credit. He captained the club to 1st place in the East last year and doesn't even get a pat on the back. If people are going to criticize him for when the Habs do poorly, the least they can do is give him credit when they do well. Solid post, FG. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 1, 2009 20:16:54 GMT -5
What pains me is that Koivu gets grilled when things go bad, but never gets credit when things go well. ...go through my posts early in the season and you'll find plenty of praises on Koivu. Plenty. It is a timely critic. We can debate if it is earned or not, that's part of what's interesting, but insinuation that those who critic Koivu are automatocally blind to his good performances is uncalled for. When the team is in trouble the leaders MUST rise, elevate their game and gather the troops. That's what I want to see and that's what we never see here. Right now we need Koivu to come out of the shadow and play a dominant role. On the ice and off it. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 9, 2009 9:31:04 GMT -5
Not a Vinny trade, but there are lots of guys on that Tampa roster who could fit in well here and who could be had really cheap (so cheap they would not affect our ability to get some other stud);
* Gary Roberts: In your face leader.
* Mark Recchi: Also a leader, playoff warrior and of course a good friend of Saku Koivu.
* Jeff Halpern: Not the offensive stud we would want, but he’s a big, tough, right-handed center who is excellent on face-offs (close to 58%). Good penalty killer, actually has a higher point-per-game total in the playoffs than in the regular season (albeit in limited playoff action).
* Olaf Kolzig: Yes, I know he is injured for the rest of the year, but so what. “Future considerations” should do it. Kolzig was Price’s mentor the summer before he won everything and right now Price looks like someone who could use a mentor. Yes, it would be quite the slap to Rollie Melancon, essentially bringing in a goalie coach this late in the season, but desperate times…
I don’t know what it would take, but if we could get all four of those guys… then make some roster room by dealing the usual suspects (Plekanec, Higgins, etc) for the stud defenseman… If nothing else you wouldn’t be able to say that we didn’t shake up the core…
Randomly speculating is all.
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 9, 2009 9:53:57 GMT -5
Not a Vinny trade, but there are lots of guys on that Tampa roster who could fit in well here and who could be had really cheap (so cheap they would not affect our ability to get some other stud); * Gary Roberts: In your face leader. * Mark Recchi: Also a leader, playoff warrior and of course a good friend of Saku Koivu. * Jeff Halpern: Not the offensive stud we would want, but he’s a big, tough, right-handed center who is excellent on face-offs (close to 58%). Good penalty killer, actually has a higher point-per-game total in the playoffs than in the regular season (albeit in limited playoff action). * Olaf Kolzig: Yes, I know he is injured for the rest of the year, but so what. “Future considerations” should do it. Kolzig was Price’s mentor the summer before he won everything and right now Price looks like someone who could use a mentor. Yes, it would be quite the slap to Rollie Melancon, essentially bringing in a goalie coach this late in the season, but desperate times… I don’t know what it would take, but if we could get all four of those guys… then make some roster room by dealing the usual suspects (Plekanec, Higgins, etc) for the stud defenseman… If nothing else you wouldn’t be able to say that we didn’t shake up the core… Randomly speculating is all. I already mentioned (during our last game against Tampa) that I thought Recchi might be a good pickup for this team. He's not the same player he was when he left, but he's still quite quick and scrappy, which is something we need. Roberts - well, he seems to have lost a few steps. He's still a mean old bugger, but I don't know if he could keep up with Begin or Lapierre (I suppose you plan out for Lats returning though, which would make the fourth line Roberts - Begin - Laraque and the third line Lats - Lappy - Kosto and Roberts doesn't look too bad). Halpern is intriguing, but I odn't know if this team needs a defensive centre. As for Kolzig - bringing him in would be a slap in the face to Melanson, but maybe Melanson needs a slap in the face (or to be fired or whatever). I am always loathe to lay absolute blame on the coach, but he does need to shoulder some of the blame for Carey's woes recently and Halak's step back this season. |
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Post by franko on Feb 9, 2009 10:39:20 GMT -5
Recchi: one last kick at the can? He's going nowhere where he is . . . and to go out on a team that at least has some hope [small as it seems right now; luckily the season isn't over].
Roberts: no thanks . . . he doesn't bring any more than we have.
Olie: interesting idea. Rollie's gotta go -- he's a Hab goalie killer. Has any goalie improved under him?
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Post by blny on Feb 9, 2009 11:16:12 GMT -5
Franko, I'd say goalies have improved under him, but perhaps plateaued quickly. Also, hard to lay blame on him for Theo.
I don't have any interest in Roberts. I think he might lose a footrace with Laraque. His leadership was also brought into question when he was in Pittsburgh.
Recchi, meh. I guess. He still skates well, still goes to the net.
I like the Halpern idea. He's a bang and crash guy, and his veteran presence up the middle would be great to have for the playoffs.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 9, 2009 12:37:15 GMT -5
Has any goalie improved under him? Rollie is the guy who coached Theo into his MVP year. He's also the coach that turned Huet from an iffy NHL backup, to a bonafide starter. Price is mentally challenged. We've seen last year when he needed to be return to the AHL after crying in the dressing room, than it was "mental fatigue" that broke him down in the playoff and now he's obviously right back there... Blame Gainey for trading the guy that Price was calling his big brother and blame Gainey some more for not being able to see the obvious fact that his young goalie is not ready to handle on his own the incredible pressure of being the #1 here. How long before the Bell Center crowd boo him after a bad goal or chant "Halak, Halak"? How will he react to that? This kid was thrown in the water and is now downing. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 9, 2009 12:50:02 GMT -5
Has any goalie improved under him? Rollie is the guy who coached Theo into his MVP year. He's also the coach that turned Huet from an iffy NHL backup, to a bonafide starter. Price is mentally challenged. We've seen last year when he needed to be return to the AHL after crying in the dressing room, than it was "mental fatigue" that broke him down in the playoff and now he's obviously right back there... Blame Gainey for trading the guy that Price was calling his big brother and blame Gainey some more for not being able to see the obvious fact that his young goalie is not ready to handle on his own the incredible pressure of being the #1 here. How long before the Bell Center crowd boo him after a bad goal or chant "Halak, Halak"? How will he react to that? This kid was thrown in the water and is now downing. Trading Huet last year doesn't affect with this year. As a UFA, Huet would no longer be in Montreal this year. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 9, 2009 13:00:18 GMT -5
Rollie is the guy who coached Theo into his MVP year. He's also the coach that turned Huet from an iffy NHL backup, to a bonafide starter. Price is mentally challenged. We've seen last year when he needed to be return to the AHL after crying in the dressing room, than it was "mental fatigue" that broke him down in the playoff and now he's obviously right back there... Blame Gainey for trading the guy that Price was calling his big brother and blame Gainey some more for not being able to see the obvious fact that his young goalie is not ready to handle on his own the incredible pressure of being the #1 here. How long before the Bell Center crowd boo him after a bad goal or chant "Halak, Halak"? How will he react to that? This kid was thrown in the water and is now downing. Trading Huet last year doesn't affect with this year. As a UFA, Huet would no longer be in Montreal this year. I agree but if Price is allowed to shine behind the veteran last year, instead of carrying the burden of being "the-next-Patrick-Roy-Savior-who-can-win-it-all-at-19" then just maybe last year becomes a confidence building experience. Still, I agree, that was then but still, Carbo said last year they were surprised to realize that Price was so exhausted... Yet what do they do ? Get him a mentor? A guy to share the load and re-assure him? Nope. We do the same recepe that did not work... |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 9, 2009 13:03:23 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about the goaltending situation last year. I thought it was important to see what we had in Price last year, but in the end it undid us. For the benefit of just a 2nd round pick I'm not so sure it was worthwhile.
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Post by franko on Feb 9, 2009 13:31:41 GMT -5
Has any goalie improved under him? Rollie is the guy who coached Theo into his MVP year. and all downhill from there. Bonafide? I don't think so. Take out the good run that the Hawks were on mid-December and he's average to adequate at best. The number one job was his for the pickin' . . . Hawks thinking of trading Kabby . . . but Huet just didn't do it . . . and he looks to be returning to norm of decent half a season and then falling apart. And there as no way the Habs were going to resign him at what he got -- nowhere near. We've got who we've got until we no longer do so. I h ope Bob makes a quick move, but until he does -- no, even after -- there is no use complaining about who he let go and why. Carbo and staff have to inspire the present team to play better. And the team -- professionals they are supposed to be -- need to pull up their socks and play some hockey instead of mooning about a possible trade or whatever thing is on their minds. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 19, 2009 15:43:38 GMT -5
Guess the rumour had legs after all. ======================================================================== HABS: LECAVALIER RUMOUR HAD ROOTS
SEAN GORDON
February 18, 2009Montreal -- It turns out power-play specialist Mathieu Schneider, who rejoined the Montreal Canadiens yesterday, was on the NHL team's "needs list" as far back as last November, but his acquisition was temporarily sidetracked by talks with the Tampa Bay Lightning for centre Vincent Lecavalier. Habs general manager Bob Gainey unwittingly confirmed the Tampa negotiations when describing his initial approach for Schneider, saying "the discussion on Lecavalier that came along for a short period of time threw everything sideways and backwards." Asked to expand, Gainey said: "[The Lightning] were talking about [Lecavalier]" and names bandied about in trade rumours - forward Christopher Higgins, defencemen Josh Gorges and P.K. Subban - were "their names." www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090218.HABSIDE18//TPStory/Sports |
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Post by blny on Feb 19, 2009 17:11:56 GMT -5
I don't think there is any doubt Gainey worked VERY hard to make a deal happen. It just became a situation where too many of the pieces Tampa wanted were ones he wasn't willing to part with.
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 19, 2009 19:03:22 GMT -5
If we had the opportunity to trade Higgins, Gorges, Subban and a 1st pick or something, and we didn't, I would cry.
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Post by jkr on Feb 19, 2009 20:16:54 GMT -5
If we had the opportunity to trade Higgins, Gorges, Subban and a 1st pick or something, and we didn't, I would cry. Me too. A 2nd/3rd line winger, a 4th D man, a prospect picked in the 2nd round - this is what they want for Lecavalier? Where do I sign? |
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Post by roke on Feb 19, 2009 22:01:34 GMT -5
If we had the opportunity to trade Higgins, Gorges, Subban and a 1st pick or something, and we didn't, I would cry. What I got from the translations I read, was that Tampa Bay mentioned those players to Gainey when they were initially shopping them, and then pulled out suddenly later. Why else would Gainey mention it in the media? I mean, if he expected it to deflect attention from the Kovalev story he would be one of the most naive people in the NHL. |
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Post by Lord Bebop on Mar 22, 2009 12:42:58 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Mar 23, 2009 6:09:16 GMT -5
Intersting but it is Larry Brooks.  |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 23, 2009 6:58:51 GMT -5
[faint whisper in background]
If you pay for him ... he will come
[/whisper]
Thanks CV
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Post by cigarviper on Mar 23, 2009 7:00:26 GMT -5
[faint whisper in background] If you pay for him ... he will come[/whisper] fixed. The talent the team is showing lately will only drive up the Price. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 23, 2009 7:10:29 GMT -5
...seems more like Larry's opinion'... I wish he would have explained himself a bit more as to why he feels this is such a done deal...  |
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 23, 2009 8:41:30 GMT -5
[faint whisper in background] If you pay for him ... he will come[/whisper] fixed. The talent the team is showing lately will only drive up the Price. Capital P. Nice.  |
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Post by duster on Mar 23, 2009 14:06:39 GMT -5
I suspect rumours of Lecavalier's imminent arrival will last the whole duration of this contract with Tampa.
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Post by franko on Mar 23, 2009 14:11:08 GMT -5
we have 10 more years of this? sheesh!
of course, then will follow 10 years of "Vinny to coach the Habs".
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Post by Andrew on Mar 23, 2009 15:17:47 GMT -5
I suspect rumours of Lecavalier's imminent arrival will last the whole duration of this contract with Tampa. His no trade clause kicks in this summer. He could put an end to speculation by publicly declaring that never under any circumstance will he accept a trade to the Habs. |
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Post by franko on Mar 23, 2009 15:31:27 GMT -5
do you really think that would make any difference, Andrew?
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 23, 2009 15:39:32 GMT -5
I suspect rumours of Lecavalier's imminent arrival will last the whole duration of this contract with Tampa. His no trade clause kicks in this summer. He could put an end to speculation by publicly declaring that never under any circumstance will he accept a trade to the Habs. I was thinking that the other day. Yes, that would make a difference, but it would also make the fans ravenous and he'd be greeted with a rain of boos in Montreal for the remainder of his career. But it would stop the rumours. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 23, 2009 16:22:39 GMT -5
Boivin probably started this by saying they were going to push hard for a francophone star. Off the top of my head, only Briere & Lecavalier come to mind. Lecavalier's contact scares the crap out of me especially if the cap goes down. And Briere had an excellent chance to sign in Montreal & turned his back on the opportunity.
It's this kind of organizational meddling that can force a GM into a bad trade or acqusition. Lord knows this team needs a shake up but what it doesn't need the is the president brodcasting their plans.
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