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Post by roke on Jun 29, 2010 14:19:39 GMT -5
If I were in charge of Spain, Navas and Fabregas would be coming on for Iniesta and Alonso at some point. They're very lopsided toward the lefthand side at the moment, with only Torres and Ramos providing any width on the right. I absolutely love watching them pass though. Beautiful movement and passing.
The more I watch Ronaldo, the more the comparisons to Sidney Crosby come to mind. Very talented, 2nd best player in the world, whines a lot.
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Post by franko on Jun 29, 2010 14:24:58 GMT -5
isn't that the way they usually play [although it is called "counter-attack"?]. not sure, as I only follow soccer for the World and Euro Cups. In order to counter-attack you need to soak up some pressure to get the opposition to expose themselves. Brazil played it brilliantly yesterday. jkr had it right, neither wanted to lose. There was nothing to counter in the game to build an attack from. like I said, I don't follow the game . . . so a big mea culpa for being knowledgeless if shoot-outs are good enough during the regular season . . .  There are no shootouts in the regular season..... |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 29, 2010 15:25:05 GMT -5
In order to counter-attack you need to soak up some pressure to get the opposition to expose themselves. Brazil played it brilliantly yesterday. jkr had it right, neither wanted to lose. There was nothing to counter in the game to build an attack from. like I said, I don't follow the game . . . so a big mea culpa for being knowledgeless There are no shootouts in the regular season..... [/quote] Not knowing what I'm talking about never stopped me? Red Storey would be a great referee at the world cup. I've never seen more bad calls that had this much impact on the outcome!Come close to toughing someone and they drop to the ground holding themselves like Ryan Seacrest in a gay pride parade. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 29, 2010 17:02:26 GMT -5
After getting 7 on Korea DPR, Portugal looked as if they were happy just to be there. Like the Habs did against Philly at times. Unless Spain is THAT good. Which they very well might be....they put on a passing clinic. If not for Portugal's keeper, Edouardo, it would've been at least 3-0. Ronaldo was virtually invisible. Many cynical posters on TSN saying that Brazil flags just doubled.  One poster said he actually saw not one, but two cars change their flags from Portugal to Brazil while stopped at a light in Toronto. Ah, what fun. |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 30, 2010 3:24:45 GMT -5
part of Spain's domination was because of Portugal's tactic that was too defensive. they wanted to clog the middle and neutralize Spain's (or Barcelona's) wingers and look for their chances through counter-attacks. but by doing that, they crippled their offense because their right full-back Ricardo Costa and their central midfielder Pepe are actually central defenders and it showed. IMHO, they missed Deco's creativity and Nani's ability to run with the ball (he's better than Simao).
r.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 30, 2010 9:12:42 GMT -5
After getting 7 on Korea DPR, Portugal looked as if they were happy just to be there. Like the Habs did against Philly at times. Unless Spain is THAT good. Which they very well might be....they put on a passing clinic. If not for Portugal's keeper, Edouardo, it would've been at least 3-0. Ronaldo was virtually invisible. Many cynical posters on TSN saying that Brazil flags just doubled. One poster said he actually saw not one, but two cars change their flags from Portugal to Brazil while stopped at a light in Toronto. Ah, what fun. Can only imagine the leafs flags changing to Blackberries if Southern Ontario got a real NHL team. |
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Post by franko on Jun 30, 2010 9:22:29 GMT -5
Many cynical posters on TSN saying that Brazil flags just doubled. One poster said he actually saw not one, but two cars change their flags from Portugal to Brazil while stopped at a light in Toronto. Ah, what fun. Can only imagine the leafs flags changing to Blackberries if Southern Ontario got a real NHL team. by mid-October |
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Post by roke on Jun 30, 2010 14:08:16 GMT -5
part of Spain's domination was because of Portugal's tactic that was too defensive. they wanted to clog the middle and neutralize Spain's (or Barcelona's) wingers and look for their chances through counter-attacks. but by doing that, they crippled their offense because their right full-back Ricardo Costa and their central midfielder Pepe are actually central defenders and it showed. IMHO, they missed Deco's creativity and Nani's ability to run with the ball (he's better than Simao). r. Portugal definitely missed Nani, he's a huge player for them, and I agree their setup wasn't very good. They consistently left Busquets free, unpressurized in the middle of the midfield, because Iniesta had a free role and was drifting into space in the centre of the pitch all match. On one hand, it makes sense to let Busquets free; you're better off closing down Alonso, Xavi, and Iniesta because those players will kill you. On the other hand, it meant Spain always had an open-man in their triangle to pass to, and Busquets had an absurd amount of time on the ball. Apparently, he completed 95 passes in the match (of 106 or something absurd). I don't know where Portugal would get that extra man to pressure Busquets though, it would have left them exposed elsewhere. Spain with the ball 11 on 11 is so difficult to get the ball from as their movement almost always creates opportunities to escape pressure and keep the ball. Maybe when Portugal did get the ball, Ronaldo should have dropped deeper to get it and started the attack, but other than that I can't think of anything. Against Spain, you really need to take your chances (of which Portugal had a few) and then play to prevent the killer ball into the box. |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 30, 2010 14:29:20 GMT -5
I agree with you, Roke. they actually defended well. but the problem was that when they did get the ball, they didn't have the players (or enough of them) that would start the counter-attack with a good first pass and then join the attack to create openings or draw the defenders.
if, for example, they had Nani instead of Simao, a real full-back that would occasionally join the attack and force Villa to cover him and maybe Deco instead of Pepe (that would require a bit of shuffling too, because Deco isn't a defensive midfielder), I think they would have created more chances in front of Spain's goal. of course, it's possible that would have also created more openings for Spain.
r.
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Post by Yossarian on Jun 30, 2010 17:57:18 GMT -5
Chatting with a few Portuguese friends, and they're pissed feeling they let an opportunity pass by simply refusing to consider any alternative tactic to beat a team like Spain. I guess for Queiroz he wasn't convinced by barely qualifying for the tournament and scoring so few goals in the process.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2010 23:02:47 GMT -5
Sometimes we overanalyze games and situations. While I don't discount that good tactics can help give an edge, to me it boils down (much like hockey) to who has more talent and who wants it more. Spain simply has more, better players than Portugal. Often you break a team down when one player is able to beat another player one on one creating an odd man situation. Or accomplishing the same thing through quick passes and give and goes. One of Germany's goals against England (the 2nd, I think), involved triangle passing and while the English defenders understood what was happening and what they had to do, they simply didn't have the speed to defend it. Podulsky scored when Muller (?) raced by John Terry and Terry just didn't have the legs to keep up. Muller got the ball back and was 2 on 1 with Podulski. James, the England keeper played it badly, but the point is that quick passing and speed beat the English defenders. All the tactics in the world can't help.
Arjen Robben of the Netherlands is a good example. If I'm playing against him (I wish), I'd play him so far to his left, he'd think I was a socialist. The tactic would be to make him go to his right, away from his very strong left foot. This isn't exactly a state secret, as he does it over and over again. Yet he seems to be able to do it consistently. Perhaps he's just so quick that any fake to the right making the defender hesitate for even the slimmest of fractional seconds is enough for him to go left and make space enough. Course, I'd play him so far left he'd have to run over me to go to his left, but then he'd probably have no trouble going around me to his right. So how successful would that be?
Speed kills and skill kills and only when the heart isn't there do those fail.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2010 23:18:03 GMT -5
After getting 7 on Korea DPR, Portugal looked as if they were happy just to be there. Like the Habs did against Philly at times. Unless Spain is THAT good. Which they very well might be....they put on a passing clinic. If not for Portugal's keeper, Edouardo, it would've been at least 3-0. Ronaldo was virtually invisible. Many cynical posters on TSN saying that Brazil flags just doubled. One poster said he actually saw not one, but two cars change their flags from Portugal to Brazil while stopped at a light in Toronto. Ah, what fun. Ronaldo has been invisible in big games for years. Spain was a better team. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 2, 2010 10:15:49 GMT -5
Watching the Netherlands and Brazil right now (had to take a day's holidays for it) and the Dutch have just tied it up. Only seconds before the referee chose not to call the Brazilian defender on an obvious yellow card infraction. Talk about karma.
Time of possession has been pretty much all Holland to this point. And as soon as I say it, the Brazilians are pressing.
Good match!
Cheers.
Edit: The Dutch goal was the result of a header by the Brazilian defender. Both he and the goalkeeper went for it and it deflected into the net.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 2, 2010 10:26:45 GMT -5
2-1 Holland so far. A corner kick that first goes off the Brazilian defender's head to a wide-open Sneider who heads it into the far side.
Still lots of time to play though.
Cheers.
Edit: Melo has just been sent off (red carded) for spiking a Dutch player. The Brazilians were pressing very aggressively and testing the referee's patience a bit too much, I think anyway. They finally got called. Not over yet though.
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Post by franko on Jul 2, 2010 12:01:59 GMT -5
wow . . . the Dutch win!
so much for "an all-South America Semifinals"
Now . . . GO GHANA! [and Germany, of course]
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Post by Yossarian on Jul 2, 2010 12:30:11 GMT -5
When Dunga announced his team, I was a little puzzled as to why he chose Felipe Melo as his starting holding midfielder over Tiago Motta. Melo had a horrible season at Juventus, while Motta had a fantastic one. In fact, Motta's and Cambiasso's solid play in front of Lucio/Cordoba at Inter was the reason why Sneider (irony anyone?) played so effectively as playmaker/attacking midfielder for Inter. I don't think it was a coincidence that Brazil looked unbeatable against Chile, a game Melo sat out with injury. Chile tried to attack, but came nowhere close to the net.
That decision has come back to haunt Dunga today with Melo's own goal, and bone-headed sending off. Juventus was hoping to sell him after only one lousy season; they won't be able to give him away now.
I was also puzzled as to why Dunga named Julio Baptista as a back-up to Kaka. Baptista barely played at all this past season and has poor ball control skills. Diego did not have a great season, but he had the playmaking skills to replace Kaka when either not effective or suspended (as he was both during the tournament).
Andre Santos was the star of the Confederations Cup winning team last year at left back. He didn't make it either. When Michel Bastos was doing crazy things today with a threat of being sent off with a yellow in hand, he had to bring on a 34 year old journeyman as his replacement. Santos was definately a better option at that moment.
Dunga tried to bring an air of toughness and discipline to his team, scraficing skill and flare. In hindsight, he should have named the above named players, as well as Pato, and even Ronaldinho.They would have played prettier soccer, and mabe won today.
And today's biggest irony: Real Madrid moved Sneider to Inter to make room for Kaka. Sneider outplayed Kaka today, and he also won a Champions League and Scudetto with Inter while Madrid, as typical recently, flamed out and won nothing. Now Sneider has a chance for the 2010 quadruple: Serie A championship, Coppa Italia, Champions League, and World Cup.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 2, 2010 16:25:20 GMT -5
I thought Ghana was by far the better team, but they lost in penalty kicks. Hats off to the Uruguayan goalkeeper who stopped two penalty kicks.
What a match, though. I thought Ghana had it in the bag when they were awarded a penalty kick with no time remaining. The officials had no choice in the matter as it was clearly a hand-ball (more of a volleyball block) that kept the ball out. The Uruguayan player was red-carded and sent off, but Ghana missed the ensuing penalty kick.
It's too bad Ghana didn't move on. As I said, I honestly thought they were the better team.
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jul 2, 2010 16:26:59 GMT -5
Melo's red card was ridiculous. The kind that if Brazil had one he should have been suspended for the rest of the tournament.
Congrats to Holland for the win.
Just watched the Uraguay/Ghana match. Lots of drama.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 2, 2010 21:21:49 GMT -5
Melo's red card was ridiculous. The kind that if Brazil had one he should have been suspended for the rest of the tournament. Congrats to Holland for the win. Just watched the Uraguay/Ghana match. Lots of drama. We were on our way out for supper but I had to see the shootout first. Ghana has nothing to feel bad about. They showed extremely well throughout the match, dominated and by rights should have won it. But, at the same time I couldn't believe the way the game unfolded. An absolute last-minute miss from the penalty dot by Ghana. I had another look at the second Dutch goal and it was a corner kick, off the head of one of the Dutchmen, then headed into the net by another. Brilliant goal, but as the commentator said, someone blew a defensive coverage somewhere. Really, really didn't like that spike by Melo. Again, the commentator mentioned that he wondered when the Brazilians might lose it. And they did. It was almost juvenile in a way. Fingers crossed for Germany tomorrow. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 2, 2010 22:05:25 GMT -5
They should play on if you ask me. If you let them play on in soccer, they'd make a certain Wimbledon match look short ...  |
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Post by franko on Jul 3, 2010 10:31:19 GMT -5
well, 2 of the three teams that I wanted/thought would make it to the semis are out, but the team I want to win it all looks to be going on.
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Post by Yossarian on Jul 3, 2010 12:18:47 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 3, 2010 14:38:15 GMT -5
I know 0-0 and 1-0 scores in over 90-minutes can seem very "boring"...but I was watching the replay of the Netherlands victory over Brazil last night...and that was a game-long battle that was every bit as impressive as a hockey game. Tremendous conditioning, skill, will, and toughness.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 3, 2010 14:51:25 GMT -5
What drama Paraguay vs. Spain.
Paraguay gets a penalty kick....saved.
Then Spain gets a penalty kick...scores....but a Spanish player came into the penalty area before the kick was taken. No goal. Re-kick (which I disagree with...as it was the offensive team who encroached....I mean, if your teammate blows it, you had your chance, no?)....and the goalie makes the save. Rebound comes out....another shot hits the post.
Still 0-0.
83rd minute...Spain hits the left post....comes back to Villa whose shot hits the right post...deflects all the way to the left post and in.
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2010 21:58:56 GMT -5
Maradona was out classed as a coach today.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 3, 2010 21:59:54 GMT -5
I don't know if I've seen a World Cup that was this unpredictable. The last game between Uruguay and Ghana, as well as Spain and Paraguay were testaments to this, I think anyway. Also possibly the best goalkeeping I've ever seen for one tournament.
Germany is dismantling everyone in their way and they're a young team at that. I was listening to the broadcast earlier today and Germany revamped their entire junior program. It seems to have worked.
I only saw the highlights to Spain and Paraguay, but what a finish.
Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 4, 2010 8:56:06 GMT -5
Uruguay's Suarez gets suspended for the semi-final game because he played the ball with his hand to prevent Ghana from winning? I have to say, I do not agree with that one bit ... a penalty like that in soccer is pretty harsh anyway. A player gets awarded a penalty kick which is a goal, according to one site I read, over 75% of the time and upwards of 90% depending on the area of the goal you shoot at. In a sport where a great percentage of the games are one goal games ... well a penalty kick is penalty enough for playing a ball wih your hand.
You miss the kick ... too bad. Now suspending the player over "sportmanship" seems in bad faith to me.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 4, 2010 12:43:25 GMT -5
Uruguay's Suarez gets suspended for the semi-final game because he played the ball with his hand to prevent Ghana from winning? I have to say, I do not agree with that one bit ... a penalty like that in soccer is pretty harsh anyway. A player gets awarded a penalty kick which is a goal, according to one site I read, over 75% of the time and upwards of 90% depending on the area of the goal you shoot at. In a sport where a great percentage of the games are one goal games ... well a penalty kick is penalty enough for playing a ball wih your hand. You miss the kick ... too bad. Now suspending the player over "sportmanship" seems in bad faith to me. I think I see your point, Skilly. Why penalize the guy twice for the same infraction. From the games I've been able to see, this WC has been one of the most entertaining tournaments I've seen in many years. Some of referees were even yellow-carding blatant dives. That's a first for me anyway. I used to play years ago. I played for one year when I was 14 in the City of Ottawa league. That was an experience because I realized just how much I didn't know about the game. There was a pretty decent skill level at that age as well. Fast-forward to when I lived overseas. I played on the battalion team and again, it was pretty competitive then too. I think I'm also grateful for the quality of information that has come out in this thread as well, though. We have a few posters who are very knowledgeable in professional football and that's helped me for sure. In a way, I'm still at the "soccer" level. Cheers. |
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Post by Yossarian on Jul 4, 2010 12:46:36 GMT -5
Well Skilly, he was red-carded for his infraction; as he should have been. That comes with an automatic one game suspension. I believe the issue is that FIFA is considering a suspension for longer than the automatic one game. On that front, I totally agree with you, the rule is in place. He shouldn't be suspended for longer than the 1 match. They can't just make the rules up as they go along. But with FIFA, they seem to do this sort of thing regularly. However, it seems though that FIFA have backed off, and are giving him only a one game suspension. If Uruguay advance to the final, Suarez will be able to play. www.goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2010/07/03/2008177/uruguay-forward-luis-suarez-handed-one-match-ban-afterWhat I don't get is why Suarez didn't try to head the ball away. The ball's height was just as reachable by head (with a jump) as it was by his extended hands. Perhaps it was just his first and natural instinct. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 4, 2010 13:26:17 GMT -5
Well Skilly, he was red-carded for his infraction; as he should have been. That comes with an automatic one game suspension. I believe the issue is that FIFA is considering a suspension for longer than the automatic one game. On that front, I totally agree with you, the rule is in place. He shouldn't be suspended for longer than the 1 match. They can't just make the rules up as they go along. But with FIFA, they seem to do this sort of thing regularly. However, it seems though that FIFA have backed off, and are giving him only a one game suspension. If Uruguay advance to the final, Suarez will be able to play. www.goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2010/07/03/2008177/uruguay-forward-luis-suarez-handed-one-match-ban-afterI can't remember the ruling back when I played battalion-level with the brigade in Germany, but a deliberate hand-ball anywhere outside the penalty area was penalized immediately with a yellow card. I can't remember what the ruling was for a hand-ball inside the box, though. I also remember guys getting warned, then carded if it happened again, for being vocally aggressive when challenging an opponent. You have to wonder if it wasn't just a gut reflex, Yossarian. Everyone on the pitch knew what was going to be called right after it happened. Man, then did you see him when he came off the pitch? Was the guy in tears? Can't remember. Cheers. |
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