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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2014 1:12:29 GMT -5
I've read it as well. Markov is representing himself apparently. I'm leery about signing him. Love the guy, but to sign him to a contract befitting a guy playing 20-25 premium minutes is getting beyond what his body is capable of. I asked myself the other day, "if I had to pick between Markov and Dan Boyle, I might just pick Boyle were he available and he's 2 years older." Boyle is presently negotiating with the Sharks, and he wants to finish out his career there, but his body is in significantly better shape. Similar players, size, age, etc. I think at this point, Boyle is the guy I'd pick. I just don't think giving Markov more than a year is the right move at this point. Beaulieu is availing himself pretty darn well in this stint. He still needs to add muscle. But, he's ready to play every night. Can we go forward with top six of: Subban-Gorges Beaulieu-Emelin Tinordi-Murray (or someone like him) Drewiske (because he's signed for one more year) Sure would be nice to have another puck mover. Markov should get significant return. If Murray got a second in 2013 (which is a first this year) and a conditional second this year, Markov should net a couple of firsts EASY. I would pass...unless they have another trade lined up for puck moving defenseman. Its a weak draft and just traded Diaz. No blueline depth there now as Drewisky and Bouillon aren't much. Markov plays a lot of minutes. How can you cover those kind of minutes? You get a significant amount of your offense from your defense. If Habs trade Markov they need another trade lined up for offensive d-man. There's no offense coming from Gorges or Elemin. What they have in Hamilton is bottom pairings talent. Who are not ready. Beaulieu is the best of them and he looks lost defensively at times. He can't cover Markov's minutes. There's no top 4 defensemen in the system. Tinordi has taken a step back this year in Hamilton. Makes them too thin on blueline You're right Gnick, but I think what some of us are thinking is that we have no hope this year and only a faint hope next year, so keeping Markov really isn't in our best interests in the long run. The hope is that Beaulieu develops enough to become a PP quarterback in the next couple of years, or that we get one somehow, in the changeover of the guard. We can't replace Markov, but we can get a young player from another team who may benefit us a lot in 2016. For example, Anaheim lost 2-0 to the Blackhawks tonight. Perhaps a Markov might have made the difference. Anaheim has Luca Sbisa they might give up, or Shea Theodore, drafted #26 in last year's draft, so we know the talent ran deep. Theodore has the name (even if he isn't French Canadian) and he has great wheels. He's an excellent offensive d-man who needs to fill out from his 6'2" 178 pound frame. If you can get him and say a Devante Smith-Pelley, maybe you make the deal. That's a first rounder and a 2nd rounder, but guys who have developed a bit already so they're further on the development curve than an upcoming draft choice. Neither player is in Anaheim's plans for this year. |
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2014 5:55:20 GMT -5
The hope is that Beaulieu develops enough to become a PP quarterback in the next couple of years the thing is, the Habs have done a TERRIBLE job of developing their players for the past too many years, and aren't doing a good job right now either. the young guys stagnate in the A, they sit on the bench or get sent tot he pres box for the slightest mistake when they are called up. but as long as there are bums in the seats and jerseys are sold . . . |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2014 6:26:41 GMT -5
I would pass...unless they have another trade lined up for puck moving defenseman. Its a weak draft and just traded Diaz. No blueline depth there now as Drewisky and Bouillon aren't much. Markov plays a lot of minutes. How can you cover those kind of minutes? You get a significant amount of your offense from your defense. If Habs trade Markov they need another trade lined up for offensive d-man. There's no offense coming from Gorges or Elemin. What they have in Hamilton is bottom pairings talent. Who are not ready. Beaulieu is the best of them and he looks lost defensively at times. He can't cover Markov's minutes. There's no top 4 defensemen in the system. Tinordi has taken a step back this year in Hamilton. Makes them too thin on blueline You're right Gnick, but I think what some of us are thinking is that we have no hope this year and only a faint hope next year, so keeping Markov really isn't in our best interests in the long run. The hope is that Beaulieu develops enough to become a PP quarterback in the next couple of years, or that we get one somehow, in the changeover of the guard. We can't replace Markov, but we can get a young player from another team who may benefit us a lot in 2016. For example, Anaheim lost 2-0 to the Blackhawks tonight. Perhaps a Markov might have made the difference. Anaheim has Luca Sbisa they might give up, or Shea Theodore, drafted #26 in last year's draft, so we know the talent ran deep. Theodore has the name (even if he isn't French Canadian) and he has great wheels. He's an excellent offensive d-man who needs to fill out from his 6'2" 178 pound frame. If you can get him and say a Devante Smith-Pelley, maybe you make the deal. That's a first rounder and a 2nd rounder, but guys who have developed a bit already so they're further on the development curve than an upcoming draft choice. Neither player is in Anaheim's plans for this year. Be giving up on this season if do that, be like playing to lose. Currently sit 5th in conference despite coming off a terrible month of January. In playoffs we stand a 50/50 chance of beating anybody in East. Outside of Pitt, but they are only an injury or upset away from falling. Look at 2010. Boston Rask doesn't play us well. We are right there with Tampa or Toronto. I like Theodore a lot better than a pick in this draft though. He's closer to NHL and was guy I would have taken at 25 last draft. Where this is weak draft and the pick likely late as no team drafting high will give up their pick. |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2014 7:01:56 GMT -5
Obviously the return has to be right. Maybe you find a team with a really good defensive prospect they're willing to give up. For example, if you could get a Jacob Trouba type and a good pick, you should be all over that.
Anything can happen in the playoffs, and any team can go on a run. It takes a lot of things going your way though, and I'm not sure the best thing going forward is to keep him. IMO, it's up to management to find another Diaz/Weber/Streit. I'm sure they abound in Europe, so replacing that type of player - if desired - shouldn't really be a problem. If the goal is to have a puck mover in each pair, then you have Subban, Beaulieu, and that free agent. If it's a move that allows us to get all our d on the sides their most comfortable playing, all the better. We'll miss Andrei, but I think he can be overcome.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2014 7:48:38 GMT -5
Be giving up on this season if do that, be like playing to lose. Currently sit 5th in conference despite coming off a terrible month of January. In playoffs we stand a 50/50 chance of beating anybody in East. Outside of Pitt, but they are only an injury or upset away from falling. Look at 2010. Boston Rask doesn't play us well. We are right there with Tampa or Toronto. We may have a 50-50 chance at beating anybody out of the East, but what are the odds of us beating three different teams out of the East to make it to the Finals? I'll let the math geniuses figure that out. Then you have to figure out what the odds of re-signing Markov to a fair deal are. Sure, everybody HERE says a 2, maximum three year deal, in the $5 million range, but what does Markov say? Really it's only his opinion that matters. Or should I say his opinion and the opinion of some desperate GM who will be willing to do something stupid like give him a five year, $30 million contract. WE think it's crazy, but it happens every July and this July will be no different. Might even be worse with the cap jumping so much, and so little actually available on the market. Bergevin should have a good idea now what Markov wants, and if it's too much he HAS to deal him. He's too good an asset to let walk for nothing. |
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Post by Gogie on Feb 6, 2014 9:04:51 GMT -5
In playoffs we stand a 50/50 chance of beating anybody in East. Outside of Pitt, but they are only an injury or upset away from falling. Look at 2010. Boston Rask doesn't play us well. We are right there with Tampa or Toronto. We may have a 50-50 chance at beating anybody out of the East, but what are the odds of us beating three different teams out of the East to make it to the Finals? I'll let the math geniuses figure that out. If you're saying 50/50 each round, then it's easy math, 1 divided by 2 cubed or 1 chance in 8 (same odds as flipping a coin and getting heads three times in a row).  |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2014 9:57:17 GMT -5
Be giving up on this season if do that, be like playing to lose. Currently sit 5th in conference despite coming off a terrible month of January. In playoffs we stand a 50/50 chance of beating anybody in East. Outside of Pitt, but they are only an injury or upset away from falling. Look at 2010. Boston Rask doesn't play us well. We are right there with Tampa or Toronto. We may have a 50-50 chance at beating anybody out of the East, but what are the odds of us beating three different teams out of the East to make it to the Finals? I'll let the math geniuses figure that out. Then you have to figure out what the odds of re-signing Markov to a fair deal are. Sure, everybody HERE says a 2, maximum three year deal, in the $5 million range, but what does Markov say? Really it's only his opinion that matters. Or should I say his opinion and the opinion of some desperate GM who will be willing to do something stupid like give him a five year, $30 million contract. WE think it's crazy, but it happens every July and this July will be no different. Might even be worse with the cap jumping so much, and so little actually available on the market. Bergevin should have a good idea now what Markov wants, and if it's too much he HAS to deal him. He's too good an asset to let walk for nothing. Think like that never been a 1986 or 1993. Cup be residing in another city on those years. If you get a blue chipper like Trouba..have to make trade. But late first rounder and second tier prospect not worth throwing season away for. It's a bad draft and late first would be a shot in dark. Another Leblanc type prospect. Yeah, the Habs will need to sign a defenseman or go on trade route to replace Markov this summer. As nothing in system of his caliber. |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2014 10:14:08 GMT -5
If Rivet could net Gorges and a pick that turned into Pacioretty, you'd have to think Markov is worth more. Kaberle, when the Leafs moved him, netted a first and Colborne.
If, and only if, the right deal is there do you make it. Gotta be two really good pieces at least.
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Post by Polarice on Feb 6, 2014 10:37:15 GMT -5
If Rivet could net Gorges and a pick that turned into Pacioretty, you'd have to think Markov is worth more. Kaberle, when the Leafs moved him, netted a first and Colborne. If, and only if, the right deal is there do you make it. Gotta be two really good pieces at least. Its has to start with a 1st and then work it from there!! If the Rangers are interest in Moving Callahan I might start there. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 6, 2014 11:00:27 GMT -5
I've been looking, but I don't know if there is a lot of precedent for a 35-year old dman getting much more than a 3-year deal on the open market. Add in the injuries and I'm not sure any team would want to go to 4-5 years on Markov. Kaberle signed his last deal (3 years with Carolina) when he was 33. Dan Boyle signed a 6-year deal when he was still in Tampa when, but he was 31.
The best comp is probably Nik Lidstrom who signed a 2-year deal with Detroit when he was 34. And that's how the Wings handled it from then on. They signed another 2-year deal when he was 36, and then another 2-year extension the following year, before moving to 1-year deals until Lidstrom retired at 42.
I think a 2-year deal with incentives for a 3rd year makes sense, but I also think it's a market deal for a guy like Markov. They guy I REALLY want to move is Gorges and I would also package one of Beaulieu or Tinordi to upgrade either on D or up front. And I want a right-shooting dman to add to the mix.
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2014 11:17:07 GMT -5
Grain of salt: Louis Jean states that former Hab, and close friend of Markov, Sergei Berezin is representing him in negotiations.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 6, 2014 12:35:06 GMT -5
...lots of noise about a possible Gagner/Clifford deal in the works.
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2014 12:52:12 GMT -5
...lots of noise about a possible Gagner/Clifford deal in the works. thought it was all but done, barring physicals |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2014 13:22:23 GMT -5
Gagner plays for Edmonton and Clifford for LA. Where and how do we come into this, if we do at all? I'm probably just confusing talks about a potential Markov trade and then a trade between two other teams. I would think Edmonton can get a bit more than just Clifford in any deal for Gagner.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2014 13:27:24 GMT -5
If Rivet could net Gorges and a pick that turned into Pacioretty, you'd have to think Markov is worth more. Kaberle, when the Leafs moved him, netted a first and Colborne. If, and only if, the right deal is there do you make it. Gotta be two really good pieces at least. Its has to start with a 1st and then work it from there!! If the Rangers are interest in Moving Callahan I might start there. That was a fluke deal. The '07 draft was a lot better than this draft, Subban going second round be example. This year won't duplicate that draft. Markov is slowing down but he logs a lot of minutes, solid in his own end, moves the puck very well and is good on the PP. He's going to leave a hole. He's made a lot of guys look better than they are over his careeer, including Komisarek, Elemin and Subban. Moving Beaulieu to jump into the top 4 could be a mistake, let him progress at a normal pace, moving into 18-19 minutes next year. Chances are you'll wreck him if jump him like that. If we move Markov need a blue chip prospect coming back. |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2014 13:28:31 GMT -5
Gagner plays for Edmonton and Clifford for LA. Where and how do we come into this, if we do at all? I'm probably just confusing talks about a potential Markov trade and then a trade between two other teams. I would think Edmonton can get a bit more than just Clifford in any deal for Gagner. I figured Gagner contract would be a mistake |
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Post by Andrew on Feb 6, 2014 15:23:18 GMT -5
Gagner plays for Edmonton and Clifford for LA. Where and how do we come into this, if we do at all? I'm probably just confusing talks about a potential Markov trade and then a trade between two other teams. I would think Edmonton can get a bit more than just Clifford in any deal for Gagner. Hopefully they can get better return than that - don't they need help on D? Edmonton's best move would be to travel back in time and draft Murray or Trouba. I doubt that Yakupov would land either of those players in a 1 for 1 trade at this point. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 6, 2014 15:42:40 GMT -5
Moving Beaulieu to jump into the top 4 could be a mistake, let him progress at a normal pace, moving into 18-19 minutes next year. Chances are you'll wreck him if jump him like that. If we move Markov need a blue chip prospect coming back. I'm not sold yet on Beaulieu. I see a bit of Ron Hainsey in him - great toolbox, but the sum is less than the parts. I wouldn't give up on him, but I would move him in the right package. |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2014 17:02:46 GMT -5
Moving Beaulieu to jump into the top 4 could be a mistake, let him progress at a normal pace, moving into 18-19 minutes next year. Chances are you'll wreck him if jump him like that. If we move Markov need a blue chip prospect coming back. I'm not sold yet on Beaulieu. I see a bit of Ron Hainsey in him - great toolbox, but the sum is less than the parts. I wouldn't give up on him, but I would move him in the right package. Beaulieu seems kind of lost defensively at times. Almost like there is a pause, as if he don't know what to do. David Wilkie use to do that to. Not quite as obvious. Hope Beaulieu ends up better than Hainsey did for us |
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Post by jkr on Feb 6, 2014 17:09:30 GMT -5
I'm not sold yet on Beaulieu. I see a bit of Ron Hainsey in him - great toolbox, but the sum is less than the parts. I wouldn't give up on him, but I would move him in the right package. Beaulieu seems kind of lost defensively at times. Almost like there is a pause, as if he don't know what to do. David Wilkie use to do that to. Not quite as obvious. Hope Beaulieu ends up better than Hainsey did for us Hainsey never really had a chance in Montreal. Gainey tried to bring him up through waivers knowing full well that he could be claimed. Columbus grabbed him & BG lost him for nothing. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Feb 6, 2014 17:43:25 GMT -5
Even if Markov is traded he could be brought back next year as a UFA, unlikely but possible. I think for a team that is already deep like Pittsburg or LA the he brings poise, leadership along with a lot of skill and not having to be a 25 minute guy but rather a 18-20 minute guy he could be a big piece to a contender and should bring a good return.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2014 17:55:31 GMT -5
Even if Markov is traded he could be brought back next year as a UFA, unlikely but possible. I think for a team that is already deep like Pittsburg or LA the he brings poise, leadership along with a lot of skill and not having to be a 25 minute guy but rather a 18-20 minute guy he could be a big piece to a contender and should bring a good return. That's exactly what we're hoping, Habitual. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 7, 2014 14:11:53 GMT -5
Even if Markov is traded he could be brought back next year as a UFA, unlikely but possible. I think for a team that is already deep like Pittsburg or LA the he brings poise, leadership along with a lot of skill and not having to be a 25 minute guy but rather a 18-20 minute guy he could be a big piece to a contender and should bring a good return. With Letang out for 6 weeks, maybe longer, the pens could really use a puck mover now. |
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Post by blny on Feb 7, 2014 14:38:48 GMT -5
Even if Markov is traded he could be brought back next year as a UFA, unlikely but possible. I think for a team that is already deep like Pittsburg or LA the he brings poise, leadership along with a lot of skill and not having to be a 25 minute guy but rather a 18-20 minute guy he could be a big piece to a contender and should bring a good return. With Letang out for 6 weeks, maybe longer, the pens could really use a puck mover now. Pouliot and Maatta in return please.  |
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Post by jkr on Feb 7, 2014 15:00:29 GMT -5
With Letang out for 6 weeks, maybe longer, the pens could really use a puck mover now. Pouliot and Maatta in return please. I must admit that I don't follow the prospects as closely as some but every time I see a Pens game they rave about Maata. What about Despres? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 13, 2014 14:32:19 GMT -5
...Despres is a big possibility, he was coached by Gallant in the Q. Rumor has it that Shero has a very agressive offer on the table for Markov.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 13, 2014 15:09:04 GMT -5
...Despres is a big possibility, he was coached by Gallant in the Q. Rumor has it that Shero has a very agressive offer on the table for Markov. If that is the case, I hope we jump on it. Sell high and build a younger core. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 13, 2014 15:12:55 GMT -5
...Despres is a big possibility, he was coached by Gallant in the Q. Rumor has it that Shero has a very agressive offer on the table for Markov. If we can Get Mataa and Despres, I would do an Irish Jig in the streets... and I'm not even Irish. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 13, 2014 15:46:50 GMT -5
He's not giving up Maata. U might get Pouliot and I'd do that too. Pouliot & Despres.
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Post by HFTO on Feb 13, 2014 20:36:03 GMT -5
I hope Markov cooperates and we take advantage of having a real chip to play for a change...it'll be a tough day but something that has to be done.....hope all the UFA's go the rest won't fetch much a stockpile of picks won't hurt.
As far as the signed slugs Moen Bourque Gorges DD I would try like hell to move them as well.
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