Stamkos

[Polarice]

Some media people are saying that Montreal might possibly be a logical destination for Stamkos, whether a rental or even a full fledged free agent signing.

It would be very unlikely that Tampa would trade to a division rival....but if they are listening to the Habs, for fun, what do you think it would take? Gally and a 1st? A prospect and a 1st and a 2nd?

Also, how much would you think he will get this summer? I wouldn't be surprised to see someone pay him between $9 and $10 for 7 years.

[blny]

He'll get a deal between 9-10 million this summer. 7 or 8 years depending on whether he signs with the team he ends the season with or not.

It would take a lot. They'd have to take salary back. Plekanec in other words. Then it's about what they need. Galchenyuk almost assuredly gets mentioned from them. I'd be reluctant for obvious reasons. They have Hedman and Stralman, but it thins out after that and what's worse is Carle and Garrison are getting paid A LOT. Beaulieu might be intriguing to them. Then a couple of firsts that could be packaged in such a way that one or more is conditional on signing, or how far team makes it in playoffs.

[franko]

closer to 10. someone will pay him. but he's basically peaked and won't be what everyone expects him to be.

[seventeen]

Even Bob McKenzie is changing his tune, because it doesn't feel right to him and I agree. If you aren't deep in negotiations with arguably your best player, before he becomes a UFA, we have what Holmes would call "the curious case of the dog in the night". Someone's not barking, to mix my metaphors.

www.tsn.ca/all-signs-point-to-stamkos-leaving-tampa-1.410192

So let's fantasize a little (HA, I know that part comes naturally to you). Stamkos decides to really screw Tampa, refuses all trade requests and runs out the string to July 1 of next year. He's now a UFA. Where does he sign?

1) the City should be relatively close to home, so not a Western Club (his parents have not moved to Tampa).
2) The new club has to be able to afford him
3) They have to be a contender now and in the foreseeable next few years
4) They should have a coach and GM he can get along with
5) The new club has to be willing to play him at centre.

Those are the key criteria. Secondary factors would include having friends on the team, taxes, etc.

Montreal looks pretty good in more than a few of those categories. It's a short trip from Montreal to Toronto. The Habs could afford him $11MM a year minimum, 7 years? They currently have a few players on expiring contracts or who they could trade to make space. Might be tough, but possible. They are indeed a contender and adding Stamkos completes that strength up the middle requirement needed by any SC champ. I have no idea how point #4 works out but there's no doubt they could use him at centre. Montreal's a great city, but the tax structure is not good. PK is a good buddy, so there may be some emotional attachment there. I'd think the CAP space would be the critical factor from the Habs viewpoint. Can they move some guys (DD, Emelin, maybe even Eller who would free up enough space? You could practically give them away and treat it like trading them for Stamkos.

So is this pie in the sky or at least a remote possibility?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Dec 16, 2015 11:18:59 GMT -5 franko said:

closer to 10. someone will pay him. but he's basically peaked and won't be what everyone expects him to be.

Closer to 10 if not more than 10 ... he'll probably get the term he wants, too ... if it's a long-term deal then I suspect Marc Bergevin will have a tough time with the cap ... both Carey Price (2018/19) and Max Pacioretty (2019/20) will eventually have to be dealt with and both will command big bucks ... Price especially and without knowing what the cap will be, adding both of them could be difficult to do if Stamkos is on the books ... just for squats and giggles; if Berg tries to bring Subban $9 million/year, Price $9 million/year (league MVP and all) and Stamkos at, what, $10 million/year, all into the fold, the more than one salary will have to be moved out ... where would that leave Pacioretty ...

Cheers.

[HFTO]

Sorry kids just Pumpkin Patch dreams..... Then agin the patch is the place where hopes and reams may come true ... Or not.

[seventeen]

Dec 16, 2015 19:33:41 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

Dec 16, 2015 11:18:59 GMT -5 franko said:

closer to 10. someone will pay him. but he's basically peaked and won't be what everyone expects him to be.

Closer to 10 if not more than 10 ... he'll probably get the term he wants, too ... if it's a long-term deal then I suspect Marc Bergevin will have a tough time with the cap ... both Carey Price (2018/19) and Max Pacioretty (2019/20) will eventually have to be dealt with and both will command big bucks ... Price especially and without knowing what the cap will be, adding both of them could be difficult to do if Stamkos is on the books ... just for squats and giggles; if Berg tries to bring Subban $9 million/year, Price $9 million/year (league MVP and all) and Stamkos at, what, $10 million/year, all into the fold, the more than one salary will have to be moved out ... where would that leave Pacioretty ...

Cheers.

Traded. Wingers aren't a key ingredient in championship teams. Aren't we the team famous for trading its captains?

[blny]

You can afford him if you trade for him. It would be monumentally hard to sign him as a UFA without having removed assets.

The deal going the other way would have to include Plekanec, or DD and Eller, to work monetarily. Plekanec would slide in behind the kid line well, and should be a good fit with Callahan. Then you're looking at the picks/prospects. This year's first, Juulsen, and a conditional first in 2017 if he signs.

It's a hefty price for sure. But, if he doesn't sign you've freed up the money committed to Plekanec and can use it for something else. The first this year would be late. Juulsen is replaceable. The conditional pick is moot. If he does sign, it will be late again. If he doesn't it's not lost.

Be creative with the contract. Yeah, you've got negotiations with other players coming, but Markov is off the books in 2017. If acquired through that trade, you can offer the 8 year deal. $86 million. Years 3 through 8 are at $11 million per year. Years one and two are $7 million. He gets a $3 million bonus on July 1 of 2016 and 2017. Cap hit is $8 million a year.

With Plekanec gone in the deal, and Gilbert off the books you're covered.

[jkr]

I don't understand the panic in the media. They have over 6 months to sign the guy.

[franko]

Dec 17, 2015 8:32:56 GMT -5 jkr said:

I don't understand the panic in the media. They have over 6 months to sign the guy.

click bait

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Dec 17, 2015 8:32:56 GMT -5 jkr said:

I don't understand the panic in the media. They have over 6 months to sign the guy.

They've created the story and they're going to milk it for all they can ...

Cheers.

[blny]

Dec 17, 2015 8:32:56 GMT -5 jkr said:

I don't understand the panic in the media. They have over 6 months to sign the guy.

The flip side is they only have to the deadline to sign him.

[blny]

I think the most compelling story would be whether or not he fits in to the group. Can he, as a shooting center, work? It's what I've flipped back and forth on more than anything. Pacioretty is a good enough passer and play maker that they might just gel well, even if a shooting center isn't the norm.

[BadCompany]

Dec 17, 2015 9:42:55 GMT -5 blny said:

I think the most compelling story would be whether or not he fits in to the group. Can he, as a shooting center, work? It's what I've flipped back and forth on more than anything. Pacioretty is a good enough passer and play maker that they might just gel well, even if a shooting center isn't the norm.

Or - the horrors! - you keep Desharnais...

Let Emelin, Fleischmann and Kassian go, resign Weise and Gilbert, or a Gilbert-like vet like Jason Demers. Could be a leftie to replace Tinordi if you want Pateryn as a regular on the right side. Promote McCarron and Hudon. 

Desharnais - Stamkos - Pacioretty
Eller - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Weise - Plekanec - McCarron
Byron - Mitchell - DSP
(Flynn, Hudon)

Beaulieu - Subban
Markov - Petry
Tinordi - Gilbert 
(Pateryn)

Price, Condon

P.K. Subban $9,000,000
Stephen Stamkos $8,000,000
Carey Price $6,500,000
Andrei Markov $5,750,000
Jeff Petry $5,500,000
Tomas Plekanec $5,000,000
Max Pacioretty $4,500,000
Brendan Gallagher $3,750,000
David Desharnais $3,500,000
Lars Eller $3,500,000
Alex Galchenyuk $2,800,000
Tom Gilbert $2,800,000
Dale Weise $2,500,000
Michael McCarron $1,300,000
Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau $1,333,334 (buyout)
Torrey Mitchell $1,200,000
Nathan Beaulieu $1,000,000
Brian Flynn $950,000
Paul Byron $900,000
Jarred Tinordi $850,500
Devante Smith-Pelly $800,000
Michael Condon $575,000
Charles Hudon $750,000
Greg Pateryn $559,543


Total: $73,318,377

[blny]

I "kept" DD because I don't think he's realistically part of the deal unless it's he and Eller. Plekanec makes the most sense. You could do a line of Pacioretty-Stamkos-DD where DD does an MSL-lite. It would be a one year experiment as DD is ufa after 16-17.

[Boston_Habs]

Just for fun.... I agree Plekanec is a useful piece in a trade. How about Plekanec, Scherbak, and Tinordi for Stamkos? Pleks allows Tampa to get a productive piece back for only 2 years @ $6m plus some extra potential. If they are really going to lose Stamkos anyway, then that's not a bad deal.

Pacioretty/Stamkos/Gallagher
Eller/Galchenyuk/DSP
Fleischmann/DD/Weise
Hudon/Mitchell/Flynn/Byron/etc.

Me likes.

[blny]

Dec 17, 2015 11:48:36 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

Just for fun.... I agree Plekanec is a useful piece in a trade. How about Plekanec, Scherbak, and Tinordi for Stamkos? Pleks allows Tampa to get a productive piece back for only 2 years @ $6m plus some extra potential. If they are really going to lose Stamkos anyway, then that's not a bad deal.

Pacioretty/Stamkos/Gallagher
Eller/Galchenyuk/DSP
Fleischmann/DD/Weise
Hudon/Mitchell/Flynn/Byron/etc.

Me likes.

I'd do that. They might come back with Beau or Pat. Beau is the heir apparent for Markov, so I'd be more than reluctant to part with him. Tampa definitely could use help on D though. After Hedman and Strahlman they're spending a lot of cash for not much return.

[franko]

Dec 17, 2015 11:17:03 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

Stephen Stamkos $8,000,000

if I were of such a mind I'd have some of that stuff.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Dec 17, 2015 11:17:03 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

Stephen Stamkos $8,000,000

I guess some selling points might be just how close we are to a Cup now and, maybe, how the team intends to stay competitive in the future ... why do I get the feeling we're about to do the Vincent-Lecavalier-to-Montreal thing again ...

Cheers.

[blny]

Dec 17, 2015 13:05:45 GMT -5 franko said:

Dec 17, 2015 11:17:03 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

Stephen Stamkos $8,000,000

if I were of such a mind I'd have some of that stuff.

To reiterate my post, where I outlined a contract, the cap hit would be $8, but he's making more. Give him more signing bonus. Doesn't count to cap. It's just a way to get around having Markov around through 2017.

[franko]

Dec 17, 2015 13:58:31 GMT -5 blny said:

Dec 17, 2015 13:05:45 GMT -5 franko said:

if I were of such a mind I'd have some of that stuff.

To reiterate my post, where I outlined a contract, the cap hit would be $8, but he's making more. Give him more signing bonus. Doesn't count to cap. It's just a way to get around having Markov around through 2017.

thanks for the explanation.

so why wasn't this done with PK? or more often to circumvent?

and why do I think that this is going to be a talking point next time the PA talks contract with the owners?

[blny]

Dec 17, 2015 15:12:30 GMT -5 franko said:

Dec 17, 2015 13:58:31 GMT -5 blny said:

To reiterate my post, where I outlined a contract, the cap hit would be $8, but he's making more. Give him more signing bonus. Doesn't count to cap. It's just a way to get around having Markov around through 2017.

thanks for the explanation.

so why wasn't this done with PK? or more often to circumvent?

and why do I think that this is going to be a talking point next time the PA talks contract with the owners?

PK had them over a barrel? Maybe they felt they owed PK after the bridge deal? PK is a better player? They weren't in a situation where the cap had to be as manipulated?

I'd go with the last two myself.

Will the league and the PA agree that bonuses be included in the cap hit? Unlikely. Might they cap the amount you can pay in a lump sum bonus? Likely. The CBA is already set up so that each year of a deal has to be within a percentage of the next/previous to avoid those front loaded deals. If I'm right, I don't think my proposal would be outside the range.

Is there a team out there that would throw Steve a max deal as a UFA - 7 years and $11 million per? Most definitely. Are they going to be a team he wants to play for? That's where the plot thickens.

A lot has been made not just of the supposed rift between him and Cooper, but how vocal Steve was about his role in the playoffs last Spring. Shifted from center, not the first line, etc. If he wants to be THE center, Montreal can provide that. If he wants to be THE center on a contender, Montreal can provide that too.

Steve holds all the cards. He has a NMC/NTC. He won't be moved unless he wants to. If the 8th year is important to him, and he doesn't want to stay in Tampa, forcing Yzerman's hand and trading him would be in his interest. If he would welcome playing for Montreal, with his close friend PK, the pieces are there to make a deal that works for value and $.

[PTH]

Dec 17, 2015 15:12:30 GMT -5 franko said:

Dec 17, 2015 13:58:31 GMT -5 blny said:

To reiterate my post, where I outlined a contract, the cap hit would be $8, but he's making more. Give him more signing bonus. Doesn't count to cap. It's just a way to get around having Markov around through 2017.

thanks for the explanation.

so why wasn't this done with PK? or more often to circumvent?

and why do I think that this is going to be a talking point next time the PA talks contract with the owners?

Any source on how bonuses wouldn't count towards the cap ? I thought the cap hit was the total deal (including signing bonus) divided by the number of years; only performance bonuses could sometimes be pushed to the next season.

As to adding Stamkos... assuming we keep Pacioretty, Price and Subban, adding another very big ticket player would soon make us like the Pens: a few core pieces and not much else, other than cheap kids.

[franko]

Dec 17, 2015 16:33:03 GMT -5 blny said:

Dec 17, 2015 15:12:30 GMT -5 franko said:

thanks for the explanation.

so why wasn't this done with PK? or more often to circumvent?

and why do I think that this is going to be a talking point next time the PA talks contract with the owners?

PK is a better player? They weren't in a situation where the cap had to be as manipulated?

but if $ =$, why not play with the cap.it's bnot like they were saying "you aren't worth $72M, PK . . . we're only willing to give you $72M.

and that takes us back to Stamkos . . . I like the thinking (he's going to get $80M) . . . I like the cap avoidance . . . but as PTH says, that's a lot of $ tied up in a few players.

[seventeen]

Stamkos for $8mm? Is that what you're asking Santa for Christmas? All is not lost though. You ignore Gilbert, give away DD and you have enough to pay SS his $11MM+ and still come under the Cap and have a great lineup.

[blny]

Dec 17, 2015 19:21:03 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Stamkos for $8mm? Is that what you're asking Santa for Christmas? All is not lost though. You ignore Gilbert, give away DD and you have enough to pay SS his $11MM+ and still come under the Cap and have a great lineup.

$8 million hit. He's actually making $10 million a year. If it's important for him to have the highest cap hit, fine. Personally, I'd rather it the way I laid it out.

[Polarice]

Went to the driving range with my "friends". We were talking about the playoffs and the Leafs and Habs etc and one of them mentioned that he heard from one of the camps that Stamkos is not interested in going to Toronto. However, wants to stay in the East. He figured New York or Montreal probably has the best shot at signing him "if" he decides to go.

[blny]

May 12, 2016 11:21:51 GMT -5 Polarice said:

Went to the driving range with my "friends". We were talking about the playoffs and the Leafs and Habs etc and one of them mentioned that he heard from one of the camps that Stamkos is not interested in going to Toronto. However, wants to stay in the East. He figured New York or Montreal probably has the best shot at signing him "if" he decides to go.

I don't see how either has the room without drastic change.

[Polarice]

May 12, 2016 12:08:22 GMT -5 blny said:

May 12, 2016 11:21:51 GMT -5 Polarice said:

Went to the driving range with my "friends". We were talking about the playoffs and the Leafs and Habs etc and one of them mentioned that he heard from one of the camps that Stamkos is not interested in going to Toronto. However, wants to stay in the East. He figured New York or Montreal probably has the best shot at signing him "if" he decides to go.

I don't see how either has the room without drastic change.

If a team wants him they will move salary to get him. It will be interesting come draft day to see if Tampa tries to sign him or decides to trade his rights for a draft pick.

[blny]

May 12, 2016 12:32:37 GMT -5 Polarice said:

May 12, 2016 12:08:22 GMT -5 blny said:

I don't see how either has the room without drastic change.

If a team wants him they will move salary to get him. It will be interesting come draft day to see if Tampa tries to sign him or decides to trade his rights for a draft pick.

I don't disagree.

Montreal will be in tough though because the contract provides the greatest monetary and positional encumbrance is Plekanec. His NTC kicks in July 1. He shouldn't be impossible to move, but there won't be a long list of teams interested. Then get DD off the books. That gets you close. Adding Stamkos and removing Plekanec doesn't add the 25 goals we want to add. We need another player, which means Eller and/or Emelin might hit the chopping block. Emelin has a NMC.

The Rangers could, but they'd have to qualify Kreider, Hayes and Miller. Kreider would be ripe for the picking with out an extension, and I'd be surprised if he played next season without a long term deal.

The team that jumps out to me as having the space, the cash, and the weather is Carolina. It's not an enticing lineup though.