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Post by PTH on Jul 30, 2005 12:28:18 GMT -5
Théodore is likely the Habs most tradeable asset. Assets for trades are going to lose a lot of their importance, with much younger UFAs, a lot of non-qualified players, players simply aren't worth quite as much in trades as they used to. You're going to be trading contracts, not players, and Theo doesn't even have a contract now. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 12:31:41 GMT -5
Théodore is likely the Habs most tradeable asset. Assets for trades are going to lose a lot of their importance, with much younger UFAs, a lot of non-qualified players, players simply aren't worth quite as much in trades as they used to. You're going to be trading contracts, not players, and Theo doesn't even have a contract now. Once he does he'll be on his way out—unless he and his agent heed the significance of the Habs choosing Price (and having Danis authoring his thesis in Hamilton). Even that may not guarantee his future in Montréal. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 30, 2005 12:36:39 GMT -5
Shocked!
I look forward to watching Kopitar more often.
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 30, 2005 12:40:12 GMT -5
Carey Price might become an All-Star goalie down the road but this pick really disappoints me. For 20 years, we haven't been in a position where we can draft a sure thing. We lucked out this year in the lottery and got a #5 pick in a draft deep with high-end forwards. Instead of taking a sure-thing high-ceiling forward, we took the top goalie in the draft. No goalie is a sure-thing. I'd rather trade for a goalie as you at least know what you're getting at that point. This pick has as much of a chance of being a wasted pick as it has of becoming a future NHL starting goalie.
I now wish we drew pick #30 in the draft lottery.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 30, 2005 12:42:44 GMT -5
On principal, I intensely dislike players holding a team for ransom because they have the team in a weak spot. I'm all for rewarding loyalty and summarily snuffing anyone exhibiting the reverse. Having said that, you sometimes have to swallow your pride and bide your time. Regarding Theo, I think he's made his bed, many times over, and each time the Habs have removed the pea from under the mattress. The danger with a guy like Theodore is the me-first mentality than can spread to the rest of the team. No matter what Theodore says (talk is very, very cheap), you have to judge him by his actions. Those actions include holding out at every opportunity, and not coming through when the chips are really on the line in the playoffs. At no time in the last 4 years could you have said, "Theodore did everything he could and more, but the weakness of the rest of the team did us in." While the rest of the team played ok and sometimes above expectations, Theo did not save their butts other than one regular season in which he was exceptional. And if he was expecting to be paid like a #10 to #15 goalie in the NHL, that would be ok, but in his infatuation with himself, he expect to be paid like a #1 or #2 goalie in the league. Fine, but let someone else pay that money and suffer the consequences.
In Gainey's shoes I'd be checking out the FA goalies and Belfour would be one of the first on my list. An older guy who's still competent, though injury prone. All you need is a year or two for Danis to develop sufficiently or Halak to exhibit skill. Where I think you'd really reap the benefit is that the rest of the team would come together and become a true team. Prima donnas like Roy and Theodore are only valuable when their walk exceeds their talk. Roy was worth it, Theodore isn't.
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Post by PTH on Jul 30, 2005 12:46:55 GMT -5
On principal, I intensely dislike players holding a team for ransom because they have the team in a weak spot. I'm all for rewarding loyalty and summarily snuffing anyone exhibiting the reverse. Having said that, you sometimes have to swallow your pride and bide your time. Regarding Theo, I think he's made his bed, many times over, and each time the Habs have removed the pea from under the mattress. The danger with a guy like Theodore is the me-first mentality than can spread to the rest of the team. No matter what Theodore says (talk is very, very cheap), you have to judge him by his actions. Those actions include holding out at every opportunity, and not coming through when the chips are really on the line in the playoffs. At no time in the last 4 years could you have said, "Theodore did everything he could and more, but the weakness of the rest of the team did us in." While the rest of the team played ok and sometimes above expectations, Theo did not save their butts other than one regular season in which he was exceptional. And if he was expecting to be paid like a #10 to #15 goalie in the NHL, that would be ok, but in his infatuation with himself, he expect to be paid like a #1 or #2 goalie in the league. Fine, but let someone else pay that money and suffer the consequences. In Gainey's shoes I'd be checking out the FA goalies and Belfour would be one of the first on my list. An older guy who's still competent, though injury prone. All you need is a year or two for Danis to develop sufficiently or Halak to exhibit skill. Where I think you'd really reap the benefit is that the rest of the team would come together and become a true team. Prima donnas like Roy and Theodore are only valuable when their walk exceeds their talk. Roy was worth it, Theodore isn't. I agree with everything there. But the name "Carey Price" doesn't figure in any of this. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 12:53:37 GMT -5
On principal, I intensely dislike players holding a team for ransom because they have the team in a weak spot. I'm all for rewarding loyalty and summarily snuffing anyone exhibiting the reverse. Having said that, you sometimes have to swallow your pride and bide your time. Regarding Theo, I think he's made his bed, many times over, and each time the Habs have removed the pea from under the mattress. The danger with a guy like Theodore is the me-first mentality than can spread to the rest of the team. No matter what Theodore says (talk is very, very cheap), you have to judge him by his actions. Those actions include holding out at every opportunity, and not coming through when the chips are really on the line in the playoffs. At no time in the last 4 years could you have said, "Theodore did everything he could and more, but the weakness of the rest of the team did us in." While the rest of the team played ok and sometimes above expectations, Theo did not save their butts other than one regular season in which he was exceptional. And if he was expecting to be paid like a #10 to #15 goalie in the NHL, that would be ok, but in his infatuation with himself, he expect to be paid like a #1 or #2 goalie in the league. Fine, but let someone else pay that money and suffer the consequences. In Gainey's shoes I'd be checking out the FA goalies and Belfour would be one of the first on my list. An older guy who's still competent, though injury prone. All you need is a year or two for Danis to develop sufficiently or Halak to exhibit skill. Where I think you'd really reap the benefit is that the rest of the team would come together and become a true team. Prima donnas like Roy and Theodore are only valuable when their walk exceeds their talk. Roy was worth it, Theodore isn't. 100% agreement. This pick (Price). The Prusek trade rumours. Danis' ascension... |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 30, 2005 12:55:54 GMT -5
Price is a big guy who plays positional hockey as opposed to little Theo who relies on reflexes.
Does smaller equipment size favor the little guys with the big reflexes?
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Post by PTH on Jul 30, 2005 12:57:46 GMT -5
This pick (Price). The Prusek trade rumours. Danis' ascension... The Garon trade ? Trading Garon for a career backup isn't the kind of move you make if you don't consider your #1 to really be your #1, and aren't willing to live with his quirks. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 30, 2005 13:02:24 GMT -5
Carey Price??
Yuck.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 30, 2005 13:05:58 GMT -5
I agree with everything there. But the name "Carey Price" doesn't figure in any of this. Only in a long term sense in that if the decision was made to move Theodore, then long range plans needed to be made for 5 years down the road, in case other current netminders in the system don't work out. If you don't select Price, you may face a problem in 2010. |
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Post by warsawyak on Jul 30, 2005 13:06:03 GMT -5
What a desperate pick!  Maybe they were aiming at Pouliot or Ryan, and were taken off-guard? I'm kind of desperate. I don't want Montreal to be a laughing stock of this year's draft... A 5th overall, damn it! |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 13:08:48 GMT -5
This pick (Price). The Prusek trade rumours. Danis' ascension... The Garon trade ? Trading Garon for a career backup isn't the kind of move you make if you don't consider your #1 to really be your #1, and aren't willing to live with his quirks. I don't see where I mentioned Garon. But, gosh darn, it sure would be swell to see the calm, composed countenance of the Gaspésien topping a Habs jersey. How good a goalie is Bonk? |
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Post by Yeti on Jul 30, 2005 13:09:31 GMT -5
[I don't want Montreal to be a laughing stock of this year's draft...[/quote]
Too late...
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Post by PTH on Jul 30, 2005 13:09:42 GMT -5
Only in a long term sense in that if the decision was made to move Theodore, then long range plans needed to be made for 5 years down the road, in case other current netminders in the system don't work out. If you don't select Price, you may face a problem in 2010. I agree there. But in 2010, Theo will be 33, going on 34. We'd *better* have someone else in the system. With UFAs at 27, you can't assume a guy will stick around for 6 extra years. Picking a goalie is mere prudence, not sending a strong message. |
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Post by Yeti on Jul 30, 2005 13:12:48 GMT -5
Carey Price was totally taken by surprise... The habs met with him only once and that's several months ago...
The Habs management team looks like a bunch of amateurs today...
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Post by clear observer on Jul 30, 2005 13:15:01 GMT -5
Still shaking my head at this pick...
...rationalize it all you want, but, mathematically speaking it would seem, IMO, to be 20 X the gamble choosing a goaltender over a skater.
Truly, I am extremely disappointed in this choice. An incredible wasted opportunity in seizing a much-better prospect.
CO
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 13:15:47 GMT -5
Carey Price was totally taken by surprise... The habs met with him only once and that's several months ago... The Habs management team looks like a bunch of amateurs today... Yes, they've all gone stupid. Fire them all.  Let's see what develops from this in the short term. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 30, 2005 13:16:55 GMT -5
Yes, the asset gathering would have to be done regardless of the issues with Theodore. I can't help thinking that picking Price at #5 has to say something. Could Gainey and the boys have been concerned he wouldn't be there at #10 if they traded down? The going price (boo, hiss to the pun) seemed to be a drop of a few picks, the other team's 2nd rounder and one other lower pick. Given where the Habs would want to be, they might have asked for the 2nd and 3rd round picks, but that doesn't seem unreasonable to me if we had wanted to move up for example. So I think a drop could have been managed and an extra pick or two obtained.
The pick probably had nothing to do with Theodore, but Bob might have thought the side effect could be interesting anyway. Maybe he has a sense of humour of which we're not aware.
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Post by jkr on Jul 30, 2005 13:22:58 GMT -5
100% agreement. This pick (Price). The Prusek trade rumours. Danis' ascension... None of these guys will worry Theodore. Price is 17, Prusek has never been anything but a backup and Danis hasn't played an NHL game. Their presence doesn't make the Habs position versus Theodore any stronger. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 30, 2005 13:24:06 GMT -5
Carey Price was totally taken by surprise... The habs met with him only once and that's several months ago... The Habs management team looks like a bunch of amateurs today... Gainey kept dropping hints though. He mentioned Price more than once and we all thought he was strewing red herrings in the draft path. While I would much rather have chosen Kopitar or have tried harder to move up to get Johnson, I can't label the brain trust as a bunch of amateurs. Strange, I'm not as mad as I should be. These are the same guys who chose Komisarek, Perezhogin (in a strong draft, mind), Higgins in what's looking like a pretty weak draft, and a yet to be proven Kostitsyn ( a fave of mine- just wait till the language issue is fixed). Of course they also chose Linhart (say what?) and Urquhart, both of whom are not looking good at this point. Overall, at least they're making their 1st round choices count. I have my kitchen fan on at high speed, to dissipate the smoke, though. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 30, 2005 13:25:21 GMT -5
Still shaking my head at this pick... ...rationalize it all you want, but, mathematically speaking it would seem, IMO, to be 20 X the gamble choosing a goaltender over a skater. Truly, I am extremely disappointed in this choice. An incredible wasted opportunity in seizing a much-better prospect. CO Agreed. All I can think of is Houle picking Jason Ward when Marian Hossa was available. Doug McLean probably cannot believe his luck. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 13:25:55 GMT -5
The pick probably had nothing to do with Theodore, but Bob might have thought the side effect could be interesting anyway. Maybe he has a sense of humour of which we're not aware. Isn't the first round pick "traditionally" that of the GM? If so, were Savard, Timmins, and Dorion suffering collective cardiac arrythmia when Gainey opened his mouth? Ah well, at least we got a North American. I think we'll be OK from hereon in. |
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Post by clear observer on Jul 30, 2005 13:28:30 GMT -5
The pick probably had nothing to do with Theodore, but Bob might have thought the side effect could be interesting anyway. Maybe he has a sense of humour of which we're not aware. Isn't the first round pick "traditionally" that of the GM? If so, were Savard, Timmins, and Dorion suffering collective cardiac arrythmia when Gainey opened his mouth? Ah well, at least we got a North American. I think we'll be OK from hereon in. God, I hope so.... ...my head hurts. CO |
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 30, 2005 13:28:52 GMT -5
At face value, it is a ridiculous move.
If we're keeping Theo and grooming Huet, Danis, et al.....then this makes no sense with the #5 pick. The entire TSN panel went, "Huh?"
That's why I say there's more to this one. I agree with M. B-E.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 13:28:55 GMT -5
100% agreement. This pick (Price). The Prusek trade rumours. Danis' ascension... None of these guys will worry Theodore. Price is 17, Prusek has never been anything but a backup and Danis hasn't played an NHL game. Their presence doesn't make the Habs position versus Theodore any stronger. And there's the rub, nothing has worried Théodore. It's time. |
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Post by mic on Jul 30, 2005 13:28:58 GMT -5
Latendresse hasn't been chosen yet. Will Gainey move ?
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 30, 2005 13:45:49 GMT -5
I say again... Yuck.
Unless Price turns into the next Luongo, this is a terrible pick. Terrible.
Guys who will be potential UFA's within the next 3 years:
Luongo, Giguere, Biron, Brodeur, Denis, even Garon.
And that's just counting the home-grown talent. There is also Kiprusoff, Vokoun, Khabibulin (cripes, he's a UFA now), Turco... oh, I have CO's headache...
I'm not a big fan of taking goalies in the first round, I'm not a big fan of taking goalies high in the first round, and I am definitely not a big fan of taking a goalie in the first round higher than most thought he would go. ESPECIALLY when we could have filled other, much more pressing needs. Brule, Kopitar, Staal, Bourdon, Bourret, about 12 other guys would have taken (not to mention who I think will be better). I have faith in our scouting staff, but this is really stretching it.
I say again, yuck.
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Post by jkr on Jul 30, 2005 13:50:16 GMT -5
At face value, it is a ridiculous move. If we're keeping Theo and grooming Huet, Danis, et al.....then this makes no sense with the #5 pick. The entire TSN panel went, "Huh?" That's why I say there's more to this one. I agree with M. B-E. We keep looking for the deeper meaning of this move but I don't think there is one. We only hope there is in order to explain this move. Of course the TSN went "huh" because although Price may be a good goalie, he is not what the Habs need right now. Maybe it does send a message to Theodore - the Habs are so concerned about his contract status that they waste a number 5 pick on a goalie. I have to sign off now. I am so ticked by this move. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2005 13:51:15 GMT -5
I have faith in our scouting staff, but this is really stretching it. "After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" "And he said, "Here am I." "He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." "So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and his son Isaac; and he cut the wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him. On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place afar off. Then Abraham said to his young men, "Stay here with the ass; I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." "And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took in his hand the fire and the knife. So they went both of them together. And Isaac said to his father Abraham, "My father!" "And he said, "Here am I, my son." "He said, "Behold, the fire and the wood; but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?" "Abraham said, "God will provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son." So they went both of them together." "When they came to the place of which God had told him, Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar, upon the wood. Then Abraham put forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. But the angel of The Lord called to him from heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" "And he said, "Here am I." "He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." "And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son." (Genesis 22:1-13 RSV) |
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