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Post by blny on Feb 26, 2018 20:18:12 GMT -5
The goatee was not included in the trade. Montreal retained it for when he gets re-signed.  Glad to see you have retained your sense of humor.  Now more than ever. 😎 |
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Post by blny on Feb 28, 2018 11:17:24 GMT -5
Pens have signed Hornqvist to a 5 year $5.3 million AAV extension. He's 31, it's a raise of about $1 million/yr, and he's a consistent 20g/50 point player. Injuries might be starting to be a concern, but he has a big impact direct and indirectly on the PP.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 28, 2018 14:09:59 GMT -5
I suspect they aren't going to like the later years of that contract. Hornqvist is another of those guys who plays a physical game and will tend to get more injuries. This is precisely the type of contract a GM shouldn't offer. Oh well, it's Rutherford. His Kessel deal was a good one which made me think of looking up his trades. What stands out, without judging what he got in return, is that he's traded away futures. Looking back he's acquired 4 second round picks, two 3rd round picks and six picks in the 4th and later rounds. He's given up 4 First round picks, 2 second round picks, 5 third round picks and 6 picks in the 4th and later rounds. Rutherford has no first round pick this year and hasn't had one since Kasperi Kapanen who was trade to the Leafs in the Kessel deal. Seems Mr. Rutherford is living off debt, which has to be paid eventually. In his case probably after he's let go. I dislike those kinds of GM's, who live off something that someone else has to fix later.
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Post by jkr on Feb 28, 2018 15:49:20 GMT -5
Rutherford has 3 Cups to go with that debt. As a fan I would take that. Bergevin has given us a whole lot of nothing. He's just making Molson richer.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 28, 2018 17:15:34 GMT -5
Rutherford has 3 Cups to go with that debt. As a fan I would take that. Bergevin has given us a whole lot of nothing. He's just making Molson richer. Sure does. He had nothing to do with Malkin and Crosby, or with Matt Murray or Krist Letang. Just pointing out he may be getting credit for other people's work or for ineptitude of the past. I rate him in the bottom 10 of league GM's and it galls me to see incompetence rewarded. In his case, he's using what was laid out for him in the past and what someone is going to have to clean up in the future. Nice work if you can get it. PS. I'm still convinced that if Williams doesn't poke out Koivu's eye, Rutherford doesn't get that first Cup either. The man has substantial amounts of luck. |
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Post by madhabber on Feb 28, 2018 22:12:07 GMT -5
Rutherford has 3 Cups to go with that debt. As a fan I would take that. Bergevin has given us a whole lot of nothing. He's just making Molson richer. Sure does. He had nothing to do with Malkin and Crosby, or with Matt Murray or Krist Letang. Just pointing out he may be getting credit for other people's work or for ineptitude of the past. I rate him in the bottom 10 of league GM's and it galls me to see incompetence rewarded. In his case, he's using what was laid out for him in the past and what someone is going to have to clean up in the future. Nice work if you can get it. PS. I'm still convinced that if Williams doesn't poke out Koivu's eye, Rutherford doesn't get that first Cup either. The man has substantial amounts of luck. Agree 100% with the stick to the eye comment. As for the other 2 cups. True, he is reaping the benefits of others. I also agree with the debt comment. Payment will come due eventually and he'll pay with his job. Someone else will come in to clean up. But, if you recall how his team got built in the first place, they sold off the pieces from their previous powerhouse team (Jagr and company) and tanked. Which is actually still better way in my eyes to build a team than to "try" to get in every year and once your in, anything can happen attitude of the genius in charge of our team. |
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 1, 2018 7:23:46 GMT -5
One can deal from a position of strength for only so long in the cap era. Rutherford has built around the high-profile stars to the tune of 2 Cups, and possibly a 3rd consecutive by this June. I’m sure the stars and the fans would rather have that scenario than one with Shero still at the helm with only that 2009 Cup.
Heck, we’re not even close to a “lucky” Cup, and our guy apparently still has the owner’s blessing.
And there’s the difference. Mario saw that a change had to be made before his stars’ potential was relegated to 1 Cup.
Hockey man at the top.
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Post by jkr on Mar 1, 2018 19:28:33 GMT -5
Watching Pens/Bruins. Less than 6 minutes in & it's already 3-1 Boston. Nash with a goal & an assist.
It's Edwards & Bricklry with the call which I don't find as bad as the supreme homer, Bob Errey doing color for the Pens. That guy is the worst I've heard.
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Post by blny on Mar 2, 2018 1:48:06 GMT -5
Watching Pens/Bruins. Less than 6 minutes in & it's already 3-1 Boston. Nash with a goal & an assist. It's Edwards & Bricklry with the call which I don't find as bad as the supreme homer, Bob Errey doing color for the Pens. That guy is the worst I've heard. Errey is brutal. Edwards and Brickley are palatable when it isn't a game against Montreal, but I'd still rather watch the game muted lol. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 2, 2018 1:50:23 GMT -5
Murray having to deal with personal business is an easy way to put a quick stop to the Pens. Jarry and DeTritus just don't cut it. Eight goals on 38 shots. And those are TD Garden shots where they often over count the Bruin shots.
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Post by jkr on Mar 2, 2018 8:35:17 GMT -5
Watching Pens/Bruins. Less than 6 minutes in & it's already 3-1 Boston. Nash with a goal & an assist. It's Edwards & Bricklry with the call which I don't find as bad as the supreme homer, Bob Errey doing color for the Pens. That guy is the worst I've heard. Errey is brutal. Edwards and Brickley are palatable when it isn't a game against Montreal, but I'd still rather watch the game muted lol. After yesterday's game (8-4 Bruins) I would have liked to hear Errey's excuses. |
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 2, 2018 9:35:04 GMT -5
Bruins were scoring on everything. Matt Murray can't recover quickly enough. If last night's game is any indication, the Pens' back-up goaltending isn't what you'd call playoff-deep. ps...I don't know how players can concentrate when being interviewed by Alex Kraemer. Heavy make-up notwithstanding....very distracting.  |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 2, 2018 12:09:54 GMT -5
Rutherford has 3 Cups to go with that debt. As a fan I would take that. Bergevin has given us a whole lot of nothing. He's just making Molson richer. Sure does. He had nothing to do with Malkin and Crosby, or with Matt Murray or Krist Letang. Just pointing out he may be getting credit for other people's work or for ineptitude of the past. I rate him in the bottom 10 of league GM's and it galls me to see incompetence rewarded. In his case, he's using what was laid out for him in the past and what someone is going to have to clean up in the future. Nice work if you can get it. PS. I'm still convinced that if Williams doesn't poke out Koivu's eye, Rutherford doesn't get that first Cup either. The man has substantial amounts of luck. He has to get credit for taking what was left to him and getting it to the promised land ... isn't that what we blame MB for not doing?? |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 2, 2018 15:37:19 GMT -5
No, I don't think so. Bergevin didn't have anything near what Rutherford had to start with. Bergevin's job is to build up a team, much like Rutherford's predecessors did. At some point you indeed need to 'go for it', but hopefully not without destroying the future. Chevaldayoff and Poile are providing good examples of teams that will contest for the cup, but still have some good pieces in the farm system. I suspect the Pens have burned what they've got...that back end is wholly unimpressive and Murray can only stop so much. They might not even have won last year if not for Johansen's injury. They have certainly won two cups and the Kessel deal was a critical factor. My point is to not give Rutherford too much credit for the Cup wins. Poile is a much better GM, but has had ownership and money constraints throughout his GM career and simply hasn't been lucky. Life's not fair, obviously. Rutherford is showing more of his true stripes the last year or so. Giving up a first rounder for Ryan Reaves? The biggest lesson to take from him is that it's great to inherit superstars on your team and to have some luck (Carolina days).
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Post by jkr on Mar 3, 2018 8:03:22 GMT -5
NY beats Calagary 3-1. I mention this because Lundqvist turned 36 yesterday & had his second straight 50+ save win.
He certainly is an exception but shows that you can play goal at a high level well into your thirties. Here's hoping Price is still playing this well in 6 years.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 3, 2018 11:14:06 GMT -5
No, I don't think so. Bergevin didn't have anything near what Rutherford had to start with. Bergevin's job is to build up a team, much like Rutherford's predecessors did. At some point you indeed need to 'go for it', but hopefully not without destroying the future. Chevaldayoff and Poile are providing good examples of teams that will contest for the cup, but still have some good pieces in the farm system. I suspect the Pens have burned what they've got...that back end is wholly unimpressive and Murray can only stop so much. They might not even have won last year if not for Johansen's injury. They have certainly won two cups and the Kessel deal was a critical factor. My point is to not give Rutherford too much credit for the Cup wins. Poile is a much better GM, but has had ownership and money constraints throughout his GM career and simply hasn't been lucky. Life's not fair, obviously. Rutherford is showing more of his true stripes the last year or so. Giving up a first rounder for Ryan Reaves? The biggest lesson to take from him is that it's great to inherit superstars on your team and to have some luck (Carolina days). Any GM coming into Pittsburgh would've had that luxury of talent. I give the credit to Mario for making the change. (I'm presuming that Lemieux, as a hockey man first, carries a lot of clout as owner.) I wonder if it was Mario who strongly recommended that Shero axe Therrien in 2009.....wouldn't surprise me. ======================================================= Rutherford was also very fortunate to get a Conn Smythe performance out of Cam Ward in 2006. We'd chased Irbe out of the rink....and, Koivu's eye injury aside, Ward was a big reason we lost the next 4 games. In 2016, Rutherford also got a tremendous playoff performance from another rookie goalie, Matt Murray, who was also a strong Smythe candidate. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 6, 2018 0:17:34 GMT -5
OTT, EDM, BUF all win and ARI gets a loser point against the Oilers. Now if VAN can just hold on and win against the NYI it will be a very good night in the standings.
Edit: VAN beats NYI in OT, best result. Now we just need CHI and DET to win a few and get some separation, although we have CHI’s second rounder so we don’t want them getting too many points, just enough to stay ahead.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 6, 2018 1:54:53 GMT -5
Edmonton, Vancouver and Ottawa are 1,2 and 5 points behind us. We have games in hand. We absolutely need to go on a long losing streak.
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Post by jkr on Mar 6, 2018 8:42:47 GMT -5
Gagged a little watching Leafs highlights. First it's Babcock complaining about a goalie interference call, as if none had ever gone his way. Then Kadri, of all people, complaining about getting hit away from the puck. Lost 4 in a row now. I think they are 7-5-2 without Matthews in the lineup.
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Post by blny on Mar 6, 2018 10:23:20 GMT -5
NY beats Calagary 3-1. I mention this because Lundqvist turned 36 yesterday & had his second straight 50+ save win. He certainly is an exception but shows that you can play goal at a high level well into your thirties. Here's hoping Price is still playing this well in 6 years. He's been an example I've used. I think there are things Carey and the team can do better - identifying injury and improving treatment measures. Raanta and Talbot have been goalies that have allowed Henrik to reduce his number of games played during the regular season. Here's hoping Lindgren can do the same for Montreal. No more back-to-back games for Carey; a measure instituted this year. 20 games minimum for your 'back up'. Calgary's slumped since the injury to Smith. Mike's another veteran goalie, at nearly 36 himself. A late bloomer perhaps, he's played his best hockey in his 30s. I think we're seeing a slow shift back. The 80s through to the first lockout in 94-95 saw most teams implement a platoon system. Roy platooned with Hayward and others. Fuhr and Moog until 88. Hextall had guys like Wregget, Roussel, Snow. Even Brodeur - the benchmark for starters who played nearly all regular season games - played a platoon with Terreri in his rookie year of 93-94. Over an 11 season stretch (97-98 to 07-08) Brodeur didn't play less than 70 games. For whatever reason, post-lockout seemed to shift to a one goalie system. The platoon era always had a #1 guy, but he didn't play every night. Compressed schedules, travel, etc.; it's too much. It means teams are going to have to invest in a quality back up. Drafting and taking the time to develop a goalie will be of greater importance. No more bench warmers. It will become more of a 1a and b scenario. It means, potentially, that highly regarded goalie coaches become more of a commodity. If you've got enough guys in the system it means you don't have to rush them. Where the league is moving to younger and younger players at the skating positions, I can see a scenario where that doesn't happen with goalies. In that regard, I think Montreal is in good shape. Fucale hasn't been able to take his natural athleticism and become a consistent pro, but he's still only 22. Lindgren, McNiven, Hawkey, and Primeau give the team a lot of quality depth. Those 4 guys are all college players too. That might be a trend to watch. More practice, fewer games, and the chance to mature before turning pro. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 6, 2018 12:24:06 GMT -5
Paying a goalie 10 + million to platoon ... and expecting the other goalie platooning to only expect 1-2 million ... yeah, that's the ticket
10 million dollars better buy you 40 Ws ... and to get 40Ws you need to play in 60+ games. And you pray your back-up wins 50% of his almost 20 games
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Post by seventeen on Mar 6, 2018 16:19:59 GMT -5
Paying a goalie 10 + million to platoon ... and expecting the other goalie platooning to only expect 1-2 million ... yeah, that's the ticket 10 million dollars better buy you 40 Ws ... and to get 40Ws you need to play in 60+ games. And you pray your back-up wins 50% of his almost 20 games This is another example of Berg painting himself into a corner. He did such a poor job of acquiring offense for the Team that Price knew how badly Bergevin needed him. Me?, I would have offered Price about what Lundquist is getting. If that wasn’t good enough I’d have traded Price and gone with Lindgren and a backup. You shouldn’t have your goalie as your highest paid player. |
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Post by blny on Mar 6, 2018 18:56:14 GMT -5
Paying a goalie 10 + million to platoon ... and expecting the other goalie platooning to only expect 1-2 million ... yeah, that's the ticket 10 million dollars better buy you 40 Ws ... and to get 40Ws you need to play in 60+ games. And you pray your back-up wins 50% of his almost 20 games If you want to make it about the $10.5 million, let's break it down. Lundqvist signs his deal paying him $8.5 million when the cap is $69 million. That's 12.3% of the cap, and made him the highest paid goalie in the league. Price's salary represents 13.1% of what the cap will be set to next year. While we all think $10.5 million is too much, but it's not a hindrance. There are any number of potential rosters on this site alone that show how Montreal will have room for Carey, Weber, paying Tavares the max allowed, and either keep Max or replace him. Dump Alzner and you have even more flexibility. As for the disparity between salaries of your #1 and #2, that's nothing new. Lundqvist's backups were always paid a fraction. Brodeur's too. A hungry backup will go out and prove himself worth a shot at #1 somewhere else and get a raise. See Cam Talbot. If you're smart you trade that back up before he can leave, like the Rangers did. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 8, 2018 17:28:01 GMT -5
... is nothing sacred ...
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Post by seventeen on Mar 8, 2018 22:08:54 GMT -5
Perfect result. Ottawa and Buffalo to OT.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 8, 2018 22:20:51 GMT -5
BUF with the extra point. Now if only EDM can beat the sliding NYI.
Was hoping for DET and NYR wins, but nope.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 9, 2018 10:39:58 GMT -5
Paying a goalie 10 + million to platoon ... and expecting the other goalie platooning to only expect 1-2 million ... yeah, that's the ticket 10 million dollars better buy you 40 Ws ... and to get 40Ws you need to play in 60+ games. And you pray your back-up wins 50% of his almost 20 games If you want to make it about the $10.5 million, let's break it down. Lundqvist signs his deal paying him $8.5 million when the cap is $69 million. That's 12.3% of the cap, and made him the highest paid goalie in the league. Price's salary represents 13.1% of what the cap will be set to next year. While we all think $10.5 million is too much, but it's not a hindrance. There are any number of potential rosters on this site alone that show how Montreal will have room for Carey, Weber, paying Tavares the max allowed, and either keep Max or replace him. Dump Alzner and you have even more flexibility. You are misrepresenting my point. I don't care how much Price is paid, and I know we have all kinds of room. The value he is paid as a percentage of the team also means nothing ... what matters is, what is that money buying you. You do not pay a guy in today's NHL Lundqvist or Price money to sit on the bench for 35 games. That's what a platoon system is; its a system where you do not have a #1 goalie, and the playing time is pretty much shared, of course in the modern system is it shared but tilted towards the guy who is better (ie it isn't a straight 50/50 but 60/40 ish). ... they are not #1 and #2 (they may be in skill) but rather #1a and #1b (in terms of how often they play). If we look at Lundqvist, since he has received his contract in 2015 ... he has played: 46 out of 48 games - 96% of games 65 out of 82 games - 79% of games 57 out of 82 games - 70% of games 57 out of 68 games - 84% of games That's what $8.5 million buys you in terms of availability. So, 10.5 million or 13.1% should buy you at least as much, or slightly more. In terms of Wins , Lundqvist won 121 of his 225 games, and held a point percentage of 0.580 If Price was to be "platooned" and only getting about 50 games a year, how many wins do you think he is getting in 50 games? At most he is getting 30, I'd be more inclined to think he would win 27 based on his historical performance. Give him another 6 points for OTLs ... and Price yields us 60 points. Our back-up has to get 36 points (in his 30 games) just to scrape us into the playoffs. We want to be a contender? Then that back-up has to get 45 points. Not ideal to me. 10.5 million has to buy MTL 60-65 games in which Carey Price wins 30-35 of them. Lundqvist was never platooned. His back-ups rarely played more than 20 games (unless he was injured). Broduer wasn't platooned until in his 40s ... he had something like 12 straight seasons of playing 70+ games. You want your back-up to play 30 games (ie platoon) that might work for year one, it will not work very long until the guy who has to play over his head to get you to win figures out he is grossly underpaid |
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Post by jkr on Mar 11, 2018 8:50:57 GMT -5
Another very questionable goalie interference call in Toronto. Dumolin scores & IMO makes no contact until the puck is in the net. But I guess Babcock's whining on Wednesday night paid off. They disallow the goal AND give Dumolin a penalty. Leafs score to make it 4-0.
This proves crucial because the Pens score twice after that. Seems like the cals are based on how much you complain, not on the rules.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 11, 2018 10:14:37 GMT -5
The Oilers shocked Minny 4-1 last night. They are on a mini streak right now, so hoping they can pull some more wins off and create some space between us. DET is just one point ahead as they have been slowly free falling. We also have two head to heads left with them. VAN will be in tough without Boeser down the stretch, and I believe Baertschi is also still out. Wins won’t come easy for them, but we can always hope! OTT is just beyond hope right now. Melnyk and Bergevin would be an awesome combo (for the 30 other teams).  |
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Post by blny on Mar 12, 2018 9:29:00 GMT -5
Remember when Burke was with the NHL and responsible for supplementary discipline? This came up on youtube today. It's gold. His candor is refreshing. Perfect response. And Domi, saying he was going to 'stay in shape' for the 8 games he'd miss. *eyeroll*
I know it's hardly current, but we've often discuss lack of discipline in the out of town threads, and it wasn't always the way it has been since Colin Campbell went to the league offices.
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