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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 28, 2019 15:42:49 GMT -5
Some quick thought from Engels on some of the "other guys":
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Post by frozone on Jun 28, 2019 15:51:42 GMT -5
Jayden Struble: "This guy is built like a linebacker, so the strength is there." This kid reminds me of my cousin at 17. Before he hit 20, he was a bipedal beast that had to walk sideways to get past door frames. Were not talking just physical size but also elite conditioning. He crushed his opponents in high school wrestling and was in the heavyweight class in collage. He went into law so he left his man-crushing days behind him.  I'm really hoping this kid will get to the NHL level andt we do not have Lernout V2 on our hands. Another physical beast that is turning out to be an AHL journeyman. Likewise. I'm really excited about this pick. And it's not just because of his physical dominance. It's primarily because he is a puck carrying defenseman first and foremost. Which means there's a chance that young Jayden develops into the full package. Something of a Petry/Emelin hybrid. I don't think we ever had such hopes for Lernout. It's possible it just doesn't materialize. Maybe his physical growth has peaked. Maybe his confidence withers as he moves to more competitive leagues. But in my opinion, the pick is worth the risk given that he has the tools to develop into a very rare type of defenseman. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 28, 2019 15:55:49 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 28, 2019 15:56:17 GMT -5
Does he have the attributes of a Shea Weber?
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 28, 2019 16:18:15 GMT -5
Jayden Struble: "This guy is built like a linebacker, so the strength is there." This kid reminds me of my cousin at 17. Before he hit 20, he was a bipedal beast that had to walk sideways to get past door frames. Were not talking just physical size but also elite conditioning. He crushed his opponents in high school wrestling and was in the heavyweight class in collage. He went into law so he left his man-crushing days behind him. I'm really hoping this kid will get to the NHL level andt we do not have Lernout V2 on our hands. Another physical beast that is turning out to be an AHL journeyman. It could go either way, I suppose. On the one hand you got guys like Jiri Sekac, who of course was in elite condition, even for a pro athlete, and that didn't translate into much. And then you got Phil Kessel. On the one hand you can admire his professionalism and dedication to being the best he can, but on the other hand you can say "well if he's dominant as a fat slob, how good can he be if he works out a little bit?" On the one hand, a guy who is just physically stronger than everybody else in his age group, on the other hand, a guy who uses god-given natural skills to dominate and still has room to grow. Having said that, PK Subban and Ryan McDonagh were work-out freaks, abnormally strong for their sizes and ages. Seems to have worked out well for them. Time, as they say, will tell. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 28, 2019 16:45:54 GMT -5
It could go either way, I suppose. On the one hand you got guys like Jiri Sekac, who of course was in elite condition, even for a pro athlete, and that didn't translate into much. And then you got Phil Kessel. On the one hand you can admire his professionalism and dedication to being the best he can, but on the other hand you can say "well if he's dominant as a fat slob, how good can he be if he works out a little bit?" On the one hand, a guy who is just physically stronger than everybody else in his age group, on the other hand, a guy who uses god-given natural skills to dominate and still has room to grow. Having said that, PK Subban and Ryan McDonagh were work-out freaks, abnormally strong for their sizes and ages. Seems to have worked out well for them. Time, as they say, will tell. Thank God your not equivocal!  You forgot someone.......Gally is a conditioning beast and that helps him deal with the pain of his chosen BDSM. Obviously there is nothing wrong with being a workout beast other then TT is also a work out beast and tends to favour guys like that. To me, that is a bonus, far away from the prime reason to draft someone. Hockey IQ, desire, size and skating is the four foundation columns to build a hockey career. By definition, that excludes slobs, or at least marginalizes their chances. In fact, the last man beast that we got as a junior was Komisarek. I met him up close and he was one of those thick body types that looked "normal" in the 240 pound range. "Thick boned" is a term that applies but kind of has no quantifiable meaning. But alas, his hockey IQ was beer league, his skating average and his career landed up as an over-hyped journeyman. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 28, 2019 16:54:58 GMT -5
More then just acting like a pro....and carrying himself like a pro.... He's representing the Lions in Winter...although they are currently getting dental work. Most of these kids have no idea what it meant to be a Habs player. That started to dilute in the 80's and now is just a memory to most other then us, the hard core fans. Everyone on this board would bleed red, white and blue to wear the sweater on the frozen battlefield.... |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 28, 2019 16:59:34 GMT -5
Does he have the attributes of a Shea Weber? Physically, kinda. He's 4 inches shorter and possible as heavy/strong by his early 20's. As for what kind of player, way too early to tell. He has a man sized body playing against boys in high school which means....nothing. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 28, 2019 19:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 29, 2019 12:18:55 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 12, 2019 20:12:37 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jul 12, 2019 22:48:45 GMT -5
What a flake.
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Post by stoat on Jul 20, 2019 16:53:06 GMT -5
The days in which the Habs cowered before the Big Bad Bruins or the Broad Street Bullies are history. I could foresee Brad Marchand bullying little Cole Caufield only to be interrupted by one of his Montreal line mates, who drive Marchand's nose back into his skull. When might that take place? In 2022 or 2023. The Bruins fans will be in in shock. Of course, by then the Bruins might be too decrepit to resort to bullying. It didn't work against the Blues. By then Chara will be retired.
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Post by folatre on Jul 20, 2019 21:58:27 GMT -5
For sure, the Habs have a good chance to be better than Boston in the spring of 2022 or 2023. I am not really seeing how Montreal's focus on skill and speed is going to make the Bruins necessarily pay some huge physical toll when the Habs outscore them, but it would be cool to do both.
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Post by Cranky on Jul 21, 2019 18:17:20 GMT -5
The days in which the Habs cowered before the Big Bad Bruins or the Broad Street Bullies are history. I could foresee Brad Marchand bullying little Cole Caufield only to be interrupted by one of his Montreal line mates, who drive Marchand's nose back into his skull. When might that take place? In 2022 or 2023. The Bruins fans will be in in shock. Of course, by then the Bruins might be too decrepit to resort to bullying. It didn't work against the Blues. By then Chara will be retired. Wait...is Pierre Bouchard, Peter Mahavolich and Mario Tremblay lacing them up again? You got to have decent size team to grind out the post season. Sure, a few muppets here and there, but a team of mighty Caufield will give the other team incentive to play rougher. There is also the "type" of smaller players. Certainly a team of Domi's doesn't require size to be mean and nasty. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 22, 2019 8:43:44 GMT -5
Wait...is Pierre Bouchard, Peter Mahavolich and Mario Tremblay lacing them up again? You got to have decent size team to grind out the post season. Sure, a few muppets here and there, but a team of mighty Caufield will give the other team incentive to play rougher. There is also the "type" of smaller players. Certainly a team of Domi's doesn't require size to be mean and nasty. I agree. We don't need cement hands beating on some helmets every once in a while, but we do need some size and strength to avoid being ground into submission. I like Victor Mete, and he's hard to hit, but if they do catch him 5-10 times a game, over a seven game series that's going to hurt. Nevermind trying to win four series in a row like that. By the end of the playoffs just about everybody is injured, and that's generally by design. Hockey is a skill game - but it's still a big-man's game. I'm not saying take the lug-head over the speedster, but you do need some muscle on your team. Which is why I'm hoping a guy like Michael McCarron can surprise us and perhaps steal a spot from somebody like Nate Thompson, and also why the aforementioned Mete (and Lehkonen) are high on my trade-bait list. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 22, 2019 10:41:03 GMT -5
Wait...is Pierre Bouchard, Peter Mahavolich and Mario Tremblay lacing them up again? You got to have decent size team to grind out the post season. Sure, a few muppets here and there, but a team of mighty Caufield will give the other team incentive to play rougher. There is also the "type" of smaller players. Certainly a team of Domi's doesn't require size to be mean and nasty. "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog" - Mark Twain |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 22, 2019 13:09:55 GMT -5
The days in which the Habs cowered before the Big Bad Bruins or the Broad Street Bullies are history. I could foresee Brad Marchand bullying little Cole Caufield only to be interrupted by one of his Montreal line mates, who drive Marchand's nose back into his skull. When might that take place? In 2022 or 2023. The Bruins fans will be in in shock. Of course, by then the Bruins might be too decrepit to resort to bullying. It didn't work against the Blues. By then Chara will be retired. I'm trying to think of one team in the league that can actually physically outplay the Blues and I can't think of any ... just my opinion, but the Bruins were rather lucky to be where they were after Tampa imploded ... the stars had aligned ... it was the easiest path to the Cup they could have had and they blew it ... if only our team was older by two years ... I've read a lot on Twitter and a lot of what the fellas leave on our boards, and if a Cup is in our future I believe it's going to come from this young core of players that are being developed now ... I haven't seen/felt that in Montreal for years ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 22, 2019 23:45:31 GMT -5
It would help if Bergevin could disconnect himself from the older players and plan for many of the kids to peak together.
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Post by duster on Jul 23, 2019 15:40:21 GMT -5
It would help if Bergevin could disconnect himself from the older players and plan for many of the kids to peak together. I'm hoping the main reason he didn't really improve the team over the summer is to buy time for the kids and to accumulate draft picks to add yet more kids. If so, this may happen. |
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Post by folatre on Jul 23, 2019 16:49:24 GMT -5
The prospect pool is looking very good right now. Of course, most of the kids are not locks to be high-impact NHL players (top six forwards and top four defenders) and some of the kids may never consolidate as NHLers at all. But there is young talent on hand to develop and part of a strategic planning process is to make room for the kids ready to play.
I am not sure if it was by default (he genuinely thought he was landing Duchene or Aho) or design (he saw a sell high opportunity and took it), but I see moving on from Shaw as a good decision. And hopefully looking forward this is a reminder that Bergevin (or whoever is GM during 2020-21 and beyond) cannot keep the band together so to speak. All of the Habs principal vets are likeable guys and good NHL players but cap and hockey considerations mean that about half of them will have to move on. That's hockey and that's the business.
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Post by Cranky on Jul 23, 2019 18:50:42 GMT -5
Wait...is Pierre Bouchard, Peter Mahavolich and Mario Tremblay lacing them up again? You got to have decent size team to grind out the post season. Sure, a few muppets here and there, but a team of mighty Caufield will give the other team incentive to play rougher. There is also the "type" of smaller players. Certainly a team of Domi's doesn't require size to be mean and nasty. I agree. We don't need cement hands beating on some helmets every once in a while, but we do need some size and strength to avoid being ground into submission. I like Victor Mete, and he's hard to hit, but if they do catch him 5-10 times a game, over a seven game series that's going to hurt. Nevermind trying to win four series in a row like that. By the end of the playoffs just about everybody is injured, and that's generally by design. Hockey is a skill game - but it's still a big-man's game. I'm not saying take the lug-head over the speedster, but you do need some muscle on your team. Which is why I'm hoping a guy like Michael McCarron can surprise us and perhaps steal a spot from somebody like Nate Thompson, and also why the aforementioned Mete (and Lehkonen) are high on my trade-bait list. I'm not taking any team as a serious cup contender if their 1st top pairing has Mete as a shut down defenseman. He will simply be pounded into the ice....by intent. That's why I'm going to wait and see if BBinz makes a trade for a top 4 LHD. Obviously there are small, successful forwards in the league, heck, I idolized Henri Richard, but a small forward is vastly different from a small defenseman. A small forward can pick and choose his physical battles, a small defenseman job description is to stop man mountains from scoring, with his face is necessary. Never mind a target for abuse. Particularly in a playoff run. Mete needs to score 20 goals in 40 games......and be traded. Did you hear about the offer sheet for Chabot next year? If not, don't worry, I'm going to hire a sky writing plane and make sure BBinz can see it all the way from Mol$ons massage table. Both languages...just in case....... |
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Post by folatre on Jul 23, 2019 19:34:39 GMT -5
Mete is still developing, but I do not see an all around talent package that says first-pair NHL d-man. That does not mean that he cannot be a good #4 d-man in the league if he figures some things out.
The Habs should definitely offer sheet Chabot (big Habs fan) if he gets to July 1 unsigned. Obviously impediments exist. He may never make it to July 1. It seems very unlikely that he signs anything with Ottawa during the season. However, most likely Melnyk will tell Dorion to trade Chabot at (or before) the draft in order to head off an offer sheet and in that event he probably signs a nice deal somewhere, end of story. Even if Ottawa says fine we take our chances and see what happens on July 1, there is no guarantee that Melnyk would not match Montreal's offer. It seems unlikely he would agree to pay the kid $23 million USD in a twelve month period but who knows.
Oh to dream, grab a #1 d-man just reaching his prime to coincide with Domi, Kotkaniemi, Poehling and the other kids on the way.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 23, 2019 21:34:12 GMT -5
For sure, the Habs have a good chance to be better than Boston in the spring of 2022 or 2023. I am not really seeing how Montreal's focus on skill and speed is going to make the Bruins necessarily pay some huge physical toll when the Habs outscore them, but it would be cool to do both. From the worst team in Montreal history to missing the playoffs again to wait until 2023. How much slack does Bergevin get for his poor performance? |
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Post by folatre on Jul 23, 2019 22:09:11 GMT -5
LA, I hear you man.
No matter the prospect pool and what might be in the future, Bergevin's tenure of seven years and counting has been mediocre. In particular, for a big club (history and resources) it is a little surprising he is still here now, let alone how he survives if the Habs miss the playoffs again.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 24, 2019 0:14:57 GMT -5
The prospect pool is looking very good right now. Of course, most of the kids are not locks to be high-impact NHL players (top six forwards and top four defenders) and some of the kids may never consolidate as NHLers at all. But there is young talent on hand to develop and part of a strategic planning process is to make room for the kids ready to play. I am not sure if it was by default (he genuinely thought he was landing Duchene or Aho) or design (he saw a sell high opportunity and took it), but I see moving on from Shaw as a good decision. And hopefully looking forward this is a reminder that Bergevin (or whoever is GM during 2020-21 and beyond) cannot keep the band together so to speak. All of the Habs principal vets are likeable guys and good NHL players but cap and hockey considerations mean that about half of them will have to move on. That's hockey and that's the business. I agree, folatre, but it seems he's stopped halfway again. To truly cut the ties to the 'old guard', he HAS to trade Weber and maybe even Price. I'm not as worried about Price since goalies age much better than skaters, but to truly go all in on the kids, you have to move Weber. We all know he won't do that. So is he really all in or is he waffling? There's an old saying about having your cake and eating it too, which never made any sense to a logical guy like me. You can certainly have your cake and then eat it. But you can't eat your cake and then have it too (Umm, techically you can but it involves regurgitating and is very messy). It seems Berg is trying to accomplish that. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 5, 2019 14:03:11 GMT -5
The problem with moving Weber is that we will not get back a top pairing defenseman. There is no reason in the world, other then our imaginations, that ANY team will give up a top 2 youngster for Weber.
Call the Jackets and ask them to trade Werenski for Weber. They will need medical assistance from their hysterical laughter.
Weber is now worth less to everyone else then us. And that gap will grow bigger.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Aug 8, 2019 22:01:56 GMT -5
Weber is now worth less to everyone else then us. And that gap will grow bigger. My guess is Weber will be left unprotected in the 2021 expansion draft, at which point he'll be 35 years old and still have 6 YEARS left on his contract at a cap hit of $7.8m. I know the actual cash cost will be much lower but still a heavy cap hit. I bet Seattle passes on him. Hard to see where the market is for him. You can try to do a similar move like what Nashville did with Subban (i.e. find a rebuilding team with loads of cap space), but Subban is only 30, still in his prime and, most importantly, has just 3 years left on the contract at $9m per year. It was a perfect trade for NJ given where they are and a very savvy trade by Nashville as they essentially swapped Subban for Matt Duchene.* *And yes, I still think PK is a stud even though he had a subpar year. The Preds came close with that stacked blue line but in the end they needed to be better up front and one of the big 4 had to go. PK made the most sense to deal and my guess is Nashville will be better next year. It wasn't just Subban for Weber. It was Subban's contract for Weber's contract: one has turned out to be a real asset and the other to be an albatross. |
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Post by folatre on Aug 8, 2019 22:29:33 GMT -5
Good points, Boston. Basically, I think Weber could have another decent year or two in him after the summer of 2021. But it would be silly for the Habs to protect him if re-signing Petry is part of the plan. However, like you, I kind of doubt Seattle would pick Weber's $7.857 million cap hit for five years because if they are following the Vegas they want to build momentum fast and start attracting and locking up top talent from the beginning and having a 38 year old eating that kind of cap for five years would complicate the Vegas blueprint.
The scary thing is that if Bergevin is still on the job redefining mediocrity heading into what would be year 10 of his tenure, then I doubt leaving Weber unprotected would even be debated in strategy discussions. Weber and all of the supposed benefits of his gold medal leadership are Bergevin's legacy and he likely would not want to tarnish that.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 9, 2019 0:42:02 GMT -5
ON the surface, selecting Weber seems foolish. Hmmmmmm. What if it's a fairly young team that Seattle puts together? What if they think his leadership skills and his low actual salary makes it worth choosing him? He'd be a lot close to his home town. If the Habs are still a bubble team, might Weber look at it favourably? I'm not so sure it's an absolute slam dunk decision to leave him open. It may be forced on the team simply because they have a lot of guys they don't want to lose and may take the risk.
Another key factor is considering how good is Weber at that age? Maybe he's not even a productive Hab? What do you do then? Petry, Brook, Fleury, Juulsen. They may all be more efficient than Weber. Or not. But only Brook, I think will not have to be protected. Mete will have to be. Kulak will have to be. I don't think they'll have any choice but to leave Weber available. And I'd probably take one of the kids rather than Weber.
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