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Post by jkr on Nov 10, 2019 12:26:57 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Nov 10, 2019 15:07:45 GMT -5
Your comments hit the largest nails right on the head. I'll add that one doesn't need to wear a poppy to support vets and current members of the military. Refusing one doesn't mean you don't. Living a life of absolutes is ridiculous.
People that support him either support his views, choose to ignore the subtext, or are ignorantly blind to what he's actually saying. He's a fossil. Time to be buried with most of them.
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Post by jkr on Nov 10, 2019 16:02:11 GMT -5
Sportsnet covers for him again. They apologise.
He should be placed in front of a camera to explain, not hiding behind the boss' formulaic apology.
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Post by blny on Nov 10, 2019 16:38:47 GMT -5
This was their PR department response. I don't think he was expected to be around after this season. Whether he finishes the year depends on what he does next Saturday.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 10, 2019 18:12:02 GMT -5
The problem isn’t what Don Cherry said; we expect that. Nor is the problem with Sportsnet (or CBC), tsk-tsking their way into doing nothing. We expect that too. The problem isn’t even the high ratings, because really that’s just a symptom of the disease.
The problem is that a lot of people agree with Don Cherry. A lot.
There is a significant portion of the population, the Canadian population, that watches and listens to Don Cherry’s rants… and nod their heads in agreement. Look to Cherry’s left; Ron Maclean didn’t just sit there in silent disagreement – or even just cowardly silence – he nodded along. Even gave the trademark Cherry thumbs up of approval in the end. This is Ron Maclean, Mr. Small-Town Hockey. A guy who has re-invented himself as the purveyor of Hockey In It’s Purest Form, the voice of the voiceless, the man who brings the good and fine people of Real Canada into our living rooms every week. He, as their representative, nodded along.
It’s easy to dismiss those people (haha, see what I did there?), as hicks, as uneducated, as ignorant. Deplorables as it were. It is also wrong to do so, and sticking our collective heads in the sand and pretending all is well with the Great Mosaic of Canada will only lead to Trump Canada. Perhaps not the bombastic, cartoon villain currently running the US, but a Trump Canada nonetheless. We already see it in the elections of various premiers across this county. Or in opinion polls. 63% of Canadians want the government to limit immigration, even though most economists will tell you it is necessary for a country like Canada to take in MORE immigrants if we want to remain competitive. But we don’t want that because… well, that’s not Real Canada.
Whether we’re aghast at the lack of poppies on immigrants, or rallying around the cry to secure our borders, the sentiment is the same; we must protect Real Canada. It doesn’t matter that there is no crisis on our border, or that there is no proof that immigrants don’t wear poppies. As Winston Churchill said, a lie can get half-way around the world before the truth even puts its pants on. Once it’s out there, it’s out there. Was immigrants not wearing poppies even a thing before Don Cherry mentioned it? Has anybody else thought this before yesterday? Now it’s on everybody’s lips. It’s out there. The next time somebody sees one of “those people” without a poppy they’ll be thinking “Don Cherry is right”. And even if you don’t see any Non-Poppy-Wearing-Foreigners, it’s still out there. Don Cherry is right, because it will be impossible to prove him wrong.
The sad fact is that Don Cherry is who we, the collective we, really are. Maybe Don Cherry isn’t how we want Canada to be represented… but Ron Maclean certainly he is. He’s travels the country, back and forth, meeting Real Canada, and then showcasing them all to the rest of us Big City Elites. This, he says, this is Real Canada. The frozen ponds, the decrepit arenas begging for facelifts, the Tim Horton’s Moms. This is Real Canada. And Real Canada sat there and nodded right along with Don Cherry. Maybe not all of Real Canada, maybe not even the majority of Real Canada. But way more than just a few deplorables.
The problem isn’t Don Cherry. It’s us.
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Post by Tankdriver on Nov 10, 2019 20:34:26 GMT -5
I'm not saying Cherry is right or wrong. But I can tell you from live experience...as in less than 6 hours ago....that the population as a whole are forgetting the sacrifices that were made. As the years go by the crowds become fewer and fewer and I see less and less people wear a poppy. This year it wasn't the weather either. The problem isn't an immigration issue. It's that those that made the greatest sacrifice are no longer around and the new generations have never really had to step up. If God forbid WW3 happens I guarantee the streets will be flooded with poppies and people after it is all said and done.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 10, 2019 20:51:19 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Nov 10, 2019 21:49:33 GMT -5
I'm not saying Cherry is right or wrong. But I can tell you from live experience...as in less than 6 hours ago....that the population as a whole are forgetting the sacrifices that were made. As the years go by the crowds become fewer and fewer and I see less and less people wear a poppy. This year it wasn't the weather either. The problem isn't an immigration issue. It's that those that made the greatest sacrifice are no longer around and the new generations have never really had to step up. If God forbid WW3 happens I guarantee the streets will be flooded with poppies and people after it is all said and done. Unless you've experienced the sacrifices, it's hard to remember events of more than 70 years ago. That said, many of the recent immigrants to this country are firmly aware of sacrifice and loss. It's why they're here. My youngest sister and her husband were both service members. It's where they met. He did several tours before he left. I wear a poppy every year. I live in the burbs and work in an multicultural urban center. Many people in that urban center do. That doesn't mean wearing the poppy is, or should, be required. It doesn't mean NOT wearing one is some sort of slight. It's the continued disingenuous nature in which Cherry goes about things. This is no different. He had a notion, a bigoted one, and framed in the context of having spoken to someone who volunteered at a poppy stand. Utter BS. |
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Post by blny on Nov 10, 2019 21:55:50 GMT -5
The problem isn’t what Don Cherry said; we expect that. Nor is the problem with Sportsnet (or CBC), tsk-tsking their way into doing nothing. We expect that too. The problem isn’t even the high ratings, because really that’s just a symptom of the disease. The problem is that a lot of people agree with Don Cherry. A lot. There is a significant portion of the population, the Canadian population, that watches and listens to Don Cherry’s rants… and nod their heads in agreement. Look to Cherry’s left; Ron Maclean didn’t just sit there in silent disagreement – or even just cowardly silence – he nodded along. Even gave the trademark Cherry thumbs up of approval in the end. This is Ron Maclean, Mr. Small-Town Hockey. A guy who has re-invented himself as the purveyor of Hockey In It’s Purest Form, the voice of the voiceless, the man who brings the good and fine people of Real Canada into our living rooms every week. He, as their representative, nodded along. It’s easy to dismiss those people (haha, see what I did there?), as hicks, as uneducated, as ignorant. Deplorables as it were. It is also wrong to do so, and sticking our collective heads in the sand and pretending all is well with the Great Mosaic of Canada will only lead to Trump Canada. Perhaps not the bombastic, cartoon villain currently running the US, but a Trump Canada nonetheless. We already see it in the elections of various premiers across this county. Or in opinion polls. 63% of Canadians want the government to limit immigration, even though most economists will tell you it is necessary for a country like Canada to take in MORE immigrants if we want to remain competitive. But we don’t want that because… well, that’s not Real Canada. Whether we’re aghast at the lack of poppies on immigrants, or rallying around the cry to secure our borders, the sentiment is the same; we must protect Real Canada. It doesn’t matter that there is no crisis on our border, or that there is no proof that immigrants don’t wear poppies. As Winston Churchill said, a lie can get half-way around the world before the truth even puts its pants on. Once it’s out there, it’s out there. Was immigrants not wearing poppies even a thing before Don Cherry mentioned it? Has anybody else thought this before yesterday? Now it’s on everybody’s lips. It’s out there. The next time somebody sees one of “those people” without a poppy they’ll be thinking “Don Cherry is right”. And even if you don’t see any Non-Poppy-Wearing-Foreigners, it’s still out there. Don Cherry is right, because it will be impossible to prove him wrong. The sad fact is that Don Cherry is who we, the collective we, really are. Maybe Don Cherry isn’t how we want Canada to be represented… but Ron Maclean certainly he is. He’s travels the country, back and forth, meeting Real Canada, and then showcasing them all to the rest of us Big City Elites. This, he says, this is Real Canada. The frozen ponds, the decrepit arenas begging for facelifts, the Tim Horton’s Moms. This is Real Canada. And Real Canada sat there and nodded right along with Don Cherry. Maybe not all of Real Canada, maybe not even the majority of Real Canada. But way more than just a few deplorables. The problem isn’t Don Cherry. It’s us. Well said. MacLean issued online statements and took time during the Hometown Hockey telecast to issues apologies. I do believe he's sincerely embarrassed. However, he is part of the problem. There was a time when he'd have held Don in check and challenged him. That time passed a long time ago. Someone, somewhere, decided that it was okay to let Don go off unregulated. That deregulation started small, as it always does. It only leads to what we have, as things snowball out of control. The only way to get that control back is to clean house. What to do with the intermissions? Take the "after 40" segment and put it in the pregame. Take the first and second intermission time and split Hometown Hockey over it. HH is a strong grassroots project. Continue to produce it. Just air it on Saturday nights instead. |
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Post by jkr on Nov 10, 2019 22:36:36 GMT -5
If they want to call it Coaches Corner how about finding someone who has actually coached in the 21st century & has some idea what modern hockey and players are all about. Jeez, the guy was fired by Colorado in 1980.
How can Sportsnet issue a statement saying that his remarks don't reflect their values and then have him on again? It's hypocritical & it's nice to watch them squirm.
As far as wearing a poppy, I usually do but I do have a tendency to lose them. My father served in WWII so at times like this , it's on my mind. When an ignoramus like Cherry says it signifies a lack of support It's grossly insulting.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2019 7:19:17 GMT -5
Cherry is a hypocrite... he's criticizing people for exercising the right to choose what they want to do and have the freedom to do it that has been given to us by the very same people he us purporting to represent. Freedom is freedom... if someone chooses to wear a poppy they can if not, that's their right... I wear one and feel everyone should but it's their choice. The thing I want to ensure is that they continue to teach about the sacrifices made by our vets in school and to new Canadians.
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 10:00:40 GMT -5
If they want to call it Coaches Corner how about finding someone who has actually coached in the 21st century & has some idea what modern hockey and players are all about. Jeez, the guy was fired by Colorado in 1980. How can Sportsnet issue a statement saying that his remarks don't reflect their values and then have him on again? It's hypocritical & it's nice to watch them squirm. As far as wearing a poppy, I usually do but I do have a tendency to lose them. My father served in WWII so at times like this , it's on my mind. When an ignoramus like Cherry says it signifies a lack of support It's grossly insulting. A late uncle of mine was part of D-Day. My youngest sister and her husband served in the RCAF (he did 3 tours in the middle east). Even without that context, I'm always thankful. I have a poppy every year. Falling off is a concern. Last year (?) they started selling them with a plastic cap on the end. I've found that helps. My folks noticed this year they sticker versions. I think that's a good idea, as some people don't want to poke holes in clothing like rain coats, etc. I was thinking about how they could modernize it, and I think people would spend a few bucks on one that was magnetic. Place the poppy on the outside of the jacket and the magnetic retainer on the inside. |
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 10:05:38 GMT -5
Cherry is a hypocrite... he's criticizing people for exercising the right to choose what they want to do and have the freedom to do it that has been given to us by the very same people he us purporting to represent. Freedom is freedom... if someone chooses to wear a poppy they can if not, that's their right... I wear one and feel everyone should but it's their choice. The thing I want to ensure is that they continue to teach about the sacrifices made by our vets in school and to new Canadians. Yes, how dare you express your freedom differently! I think education is a salient point. John Lu tweeted about it today wrt new Canadians. A lot of Asian kids come over here for post-secondary education. A lot. Those from China that don't take a western high school program may not have learned about the world wars of the 1900s. It certainly doesn't mean they don't know about loss and sacrifice, but to understand what western freedoms have cost it is good to have something in place that teaches those new to this country. |
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Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 10:42:26 GMT -5
If they want to call it Coaches Corner how about finding someone who has actually coached in the 21st century & has some idea what modern hockey and players are all about. Jeez, the guy was fired by Colorado in 1980. How can Sportsnet issue a statement saying that his remarks don't reflect their values and then have him on again? It's hypocritical & it's nice to watch them squirm. As far as wearing a poppy, I usually do but I do have a tendency to lose them. My father served in WWII so at times like this , it's on my mind. When an ignoramus like Cherry says it signifies a lack of support It's grossly insulting. A late uncle of mine was part of D-Day. My youngest sister and her husband served in the RCAF (he did 3 tours in the middle east). Even without that context, I'm always thankful. I have a poppy every year. Falling off is a concern. Last year (?) they started selling them with a plastic cap on the end. I've found that helps. My folks noticed this year they sticker versions. I think that's a good idea, as some people don't want to poke holes in clothing like rain coats, etc. I was thinking about how they could modernize it, and I think people would spend a few bucks on one that was magnetic. Place the poppy on the outside of the jacket and the magnetic retainer on the inside. In my area the Legion were selling something that looked like tie pin. The centre is black & replaces the felt centre with the pin. Only cost a buck & it kept the poppies on your coat. |
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 10:46:18 GMT -5
A late uncle of mine was part of D-Day. My youngest sister and her husband served in the RCAF (he did 3 tours in the middle east). Even without that context, I'm always thankful. I have a poppy every year. Falling off is a concern. Last year (?) they started selling them with a plastic cap on the end. I've found that helps. My folks noticed this year they sticker versions. I think that's a good idea, as some people don't want to poke holes in clothing like rain coats, etc. I was thinking about how they could modernize it, and I think people would spend a few bucks on one that was magnetic. Place the poppy on the outside of the jacket and the magnetic retainer on the inside. In my area the Legion were selling something that looked like tie pin. The centre is black & replaces the felt centre with the pin. Only cost a buck & it kept the poppies on your coat. Nice.  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2019 11:49:17 GMT -5
In my area the Legion were selling something that looked like tie pin. The centre is black & replaces the felt centre with the pin. Only cost a buck & it kept the poppies on your coat. Nice. I bought a magnetic one for my car. |
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 11:50:24 GMT -5
Nice. I bought a magnetic one for my car. Link? I'd be interested in that. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2019 11:50:34 GMT -5
Watching the ceremony, the legion members laying a wreath always chokes me up. Bagpipes dont help either.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2019 11:51:18 GMT -5
I bought a magnetic one for my car. Link? I'd be interested in that. Bought it at a walmart, they had a table with all sorts if pins, stickers etc. Edit, check this bud... www.poppystore.ca/magnet-poppy-300490 |
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Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 12:11:18 GMT -5
Watching the ceremony, the legion members laying a wreath always chokes me up. Bagpipes dont help either. Ya. There is something mournful about the sound of bagpipes. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 11, 2019 12:21:15 GMT -5
Nice avatar Willie. Lest we forget.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2019 12:33:29 GMT -5
Nice avatar Willie. Lest we forget. Saw it and thought it was very poignant, because I love going to the beach. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 11, 2019 12:35:25 GMT -5
The problem isn’t what Don Cherry said; we expect that. Nor is the problem with Sportsnet (or CBC), tsk-tsking their way into doing nothing. We expect that too. The problem isn’t even the high ratings, because really that’s just a symptom of the disease. The problem is that a lot of people agree with Don Cherry. A lot. There is a significant portion of the population, the Canadian population, that watches and listens to Don Cherry’s rants… and nod their heads in agreement. Look to Cherry’s left; Ron Maclean didn’t just sit there in silent disagreement – or even just cowardly silence – he nodded along. Even gave the trademark Cherry thumbs up of approval in the end. This is Ron Maclean, Mr. Small-Town Hockey. A guy who has re-invented himself as the purveyor of Hockey In It’s Purest Form, the voice of the voiceless, the man who brings the good and fine people of Real Canada into our living rooms every week. He, as their representative, nodded along. It’s easy to dismiss those people (haha, see what I did there?), as hicks, as uneducated, as ignorant. Deplorables as it were. It is also wrong to do so, and sticking our collective heads in the sand and pretending all is well with the Great Mosaic of Canada will only lead to Trump Canada. Perhaps not the bombastic, cartoon villain currently running the US, but a Trump Canada nonetheless. We already see it in the elections of various premiers across this county. Or in opinion polls. 63% of Canadians want the government to limit immigration, even though most economists will tell you it is necessary for a country like Canada to take in MORE immigrants if we want to remain competitive. But we don’t want that because… well, that’s not Real Canada. Whether we’re aghast at the lack of poppies on immigrants, or rallying around the cry to secure our borders, the sentiment is the same; we must protect Real Canada. It doesn’t matter that there is no crisis on our border, or that there is no proof that immigrants don’t wear poppies. As Winston Churchill said, a lie can get half-way around the world before the truth even puts its pants on. Once it’s out there, it’s out there. Was immigrants not wearing poppies even a thing before Don Cherry mentioned it? Has anybody else thought this before yesterday? Now it’s on everybody’s lips. It’s out there. The next time somebody sees one of “those people” without a poppy they’ll be thinking “Don Cherry is right”. And even if you don’t see any Non-Poppy-Wearing-Foreigners, it’s still out there. Don Cherry is right, because it will be impossible to prove him wrong. The sad fact is that Don Cherry is who we, the collective we, really are. Maybe Don Cherry isn’t how we want Canada to be represented… but Ron Maclean certainly he is. He’s travels the country, back and forth, meeting Real Canada, and then showcasing them all to the rest of us Big City Elites. This, he says, this is Real Canada. The frozen ponds, the decrepit arenas begging for facelifts, the Tim Horton’s Moms. This is Real Canada. And Real Canada sat there and nodded right along with Don Cherry. Maybe not all of Real Canada, maybe not even the majority of Real Canada. But way more than just a few deplorables. The problem isn’t Don Cherry. It’s us. My running joke is that unfortunately those guys have the same number of votes as me. Seems unfair. Yes, Ron McLean nodding his head was deplorable. He should be canned along with Cherry. I'm not going to sugar coat this. The basic problem as I see it is fear. Faar of something different. Immigrants come to a new country to escape a situation in their former country. Usually it's economic. There is no hope for advancement in the old place so they move to a new place. Ask Newfoundlanders about that, at least those that 'emigrated' to Alberta. These newcomers to the country bring traditions and values that are different than what we are currently used to. Sometimes they bring a different religion. Over tiime, like the Borg there's a mutual assimilation that takes place. They convert to being 'Canadian' and the rest of us adopt some of the values and traditions of the newcomers. Over time, in Canada, that has worked well, but there are always growing pains. We've had krauts and wops from Europe, chinks and Pakis from Asia, blacks from Jamaica and Ethiopia. No one gets after wops and krauts anymore (I'm one of those) and we're slowly getting over Pakis and chinks as we see more of them at hockey games and at the events that make up our lives. But there's a defiinite assimilation period where these groups are blamed for whatever ills the rest of us. But, as you pointed out, economists confirm we need immigration to fuel growth. Not only that, we're like mongrel dogs. Not the prettiest, but we're survivors because of the intermingling of genes. And we're exposed to more ideas than countries that don't encourage immigration. Without doing exhaustive research, it's obvious that some large companies that produce jobs for people were started by immigrants. Bata and Magna come to mind. Immigration is good for Canada, plain and simple. The fact one third of the population doesn't see that or is fearful of it is the problem. That's what needs work. And I think you'll be lucky if you can get it down to 25%. The rest are too ignorant, too set in their ways, too scared, too something else. The point is that the 67% or 75% can't sit back and let the smaller fearful group dominate the discussion. The Cherry's of the world have to be challenged and in some cases, have their soap boxes taken away, because they are toxic and harmful to society's well being. Cherry is just one exampjle. Why does he pick on immigrants? I see lots of 'real Canadians' not wearing poppies. Yet he chose to ignore criticizing those people and concentrate his bile on immigrants. After the umpteenth time of spewing his hate, he doesn't deserve understanding. He's not a benign cancer, he's malignant and needs to be cut out. The suggestion of awarding an Order of Canada for him is preposterous. He's an old, demented goon and we shouldn't allow him to spread his nonsense and hate to the country. Examples have to be made of guys like him and Trump in the US to bring balance back to the world. It seems like we're going through a cycle where there's a lot of dissatisfaction in the world and the blame is being placed where it's convenient for some people. It's up to the 'reasonable' majority to set this straight. |
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Post by duster on Nov 11, 2019 12:45:05 GMT -5
Cherry is a hypocrite... he's criticizing people for exercising the right to choose what they want to do and have the freedom to do it that has been given to us by the very same people he us purporting to represent. Freedom is freedom... if someone chooses to wear a poppy they can if not, that's their right... I wear one and feel everyone should but it's their choice. The thing I want to ensure is that they continue to teach about the sacrifices made by our vets in school and to new Canadians. Yes, how dare you express your freedom differently! I think education is a salient point. John Lu tweeted about it today wrt new Canadians. A lot of Asian kids come over here for post-secondary education. A lot. Those from China that don't take a western high school program may not have learned about the world wars of the 1900s. It certainly doesn't mean they don't know about loss and sacrifice, but to understand what western freedoms have cost it is good to have something in place that teaches those new to this country. At the Remembrance ceremony at my kids school on Thursday, a couple of Asian kids were using their cell phones and were giggling during the ceremony to point of being quietly reprimanded by teachers and other students. It's clear that Remembrance Day meant nothing to them or perhaps they were simply amused by the sound of bagpipes. Many in attendance were offended I'm sure and it's not racist to say so. |
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 13:18:43 GMT -5
Yes, how dare you express your freedom differently! I think education is a salient point. John Lu tweeted about it today wrt new Canadians. A lot of Asian kids come over here for post-secondary education. A lot. Those from China that don't take a western high school program may not have learned about the world wars of the 1900s. It certainly doesn't mean they don't know about loss and sacrifice, but to understand what western freedoms have cost it is good to have something in place that teaches those new to this country. At the Remembrance ceremony at my kids school on Thursday, a couple of Asian kids were using their cell phones and were giggling during the ceremony to point of being quietly reprimanded by teachers and other students. It's clear that Remembrance Day meant nothing to them or perhaps they were simply amused by the sound of bagpipes. Many in attendance were offended I'm sure and it's not racist to say so. The same could be said if we moved to another country, permanent or temporary, and were unaware, unfamiliar, without context. I can say that I went to numerous school-based ceremonies from elementary through high school. Disrespect isn't limited to cultural ignorance. Plenty of kids, regardless of background, can act inappropriately. And we didn't have that hand held distraction that is a cell phone. |
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Post by franko on Nov 11, 2019 13:37:43 GMT -5
along with the "regular" poppy -- and I'm one of the ones that (a) doesn't like poking them through clothes because of the holes created and if its through a shirt, the pokiness into my skin and (2) has to buy a handful of them because they keep falling off -- I bought a "digital poppy" . . . this is a fundraiser for the Legion; I'm not a member, I think everyone else in my family is! long military heritage.
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Post by franko on Nov 11, 2019 13:45:27 GMT -5
Immigration is good for Canada, plain and simple. funny thing . . . we were all immigrants at one time . . . my father-in-law came from Europe in 1958. my family came from Europe in ~1698. |
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Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 14:22:44 GMT -5
The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council has said that they are overwhelmed with complaints & cannot accept any more at this time.
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Post by Gogie on Nov 11, 2019 15:04:25 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Nov 11, 2019 15:06:28 GMT -5
Dis put up a thread in the non-habs board.
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