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Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2019 23:03:40 GMT -5
I'm hoping that even Cherry's most ardent supporters will agree that he's gone too far this time. I'll be surprised, as well as disappointed, if there's a huge outcry to bring him back. are you kidding me? there is a huge outcry . . . an online petition to bring him back . . . talks of boycotting (how will SN know if anyone is boycotting?). thems that love Cherry are all-in on him . . . conspiracy by leftwingers and the leftwing media to get rid of the one guy who stands up for "true Canadians". Go ahead & boycott. Who cares. True Canadians? Please don't include be in that gang. As soon as their team is on the boycott will be over. |
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Post by franko on Nov 11, 2019 23:14:25 GMT -5
'Europeans and French guys'a few comments at the end of the article, the ones defending Cherry sound just like him. let's face it, you either love him or you hate him, not much middle ground for toleration (he'd be against that anyway).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 23:25:45 GMT -5
Some good comments there, particularly by Ling & Coren. This tweet in particular more or less highlights what many of us here at Habs R Us have been griping about for years: |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 11, 2019 23:38:19 GMT -5
I'm hoping that even Cherry's most ardent supporters will agree that he's gone too far this time. I'll be surprised, as well as disappointed, if there's a huge outcry to bring him back. are you kidding me? there is a huge outcry . . . an online petition to bring him back . . . talks of boycotting (how will SN know if anyone is boycotting?). thems that love Cherry are all-in on him . . . conspiracy by leftwingers and the leftwing media to get rid of the one guy who stands up for "true Canadians". Thanks, franko...that's too bad. Sunset time for Don. Just let him ride off, petitioners. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2019 0:51:55 GMT -5
As a former harassment advisor, it was difficult making people understand this ... There's a job advising people how to harrass others? Where do I apply? Don't laugh, dude, but I had to organize security for a section of NDHQ, Ottawa, in preparation for protesters ... these were professional protesters, folks who actually get paid to show up and protest whatever they're told to ... the most famous professional protester was the sap Jean Chretien threw to the ground with what's known now as the Shawinigan Handshake * ... anyway, we knew when they'd be there doing their thing because they don't miss meals ... they'll have breakfast at home and be back on the bus and home for supper ... so, yeah, there are jobs like that  ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 6:32:20 GMT -5
I'm hoping that even Cherry's most ardent supporters will agree that he's gone too far this time. I'll be surprised, as well as disappointed, if there's a huge outcry to bring him back. are you kidding me? there is a huge outcry . . . an online petition to bring him back . . . talks of boycotting (how will SN know if anyone is boycotting?). thems that love Cherry are all-in on him . . . conspiracy by leftwingers and the leftwing media to get rid of the one guy who stands up for "true Canadians". Yes those damn libtards are at it again. I feel really bad for these people that have been so hard done by and put out. |
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Post by franko on Nov 12, 2019 6:40:49 GMT -5
are you kidding me? there is a huge outcry . . . an online petition to bring him back . . . talks of boycotting (how will SN know if anyone is boycotting?). thems that love Cherry are all-in on him . . . conspiracy by leftwingers and the leftwing media to get rid of the one guy who stands up for "true Canadians". Yes those damn libtards are at it again. I feel really bad for these people that have been so hard done by and put out. but don't touch out social programs Canadian way of life. |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 8:42:26 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 12, 2019 10:02:17 GMT -5
I can't help but see this as a bit of a hypocritical turn on the part of the broadcasters and MacLean.
Cherry kept his job over the decades BECAUSE he was controversial...not IN SPITE of it. "What will he say next?" was a main selling point, no question. Swearing allegiance to the Leafs was also a key element in his longevity--a "get out of jail free" card.
Cherry was given an uncontested podium for 38 years. Neither fact-checked by the CBC, nor overly-admonished by MacLean. Such a process would've undermined the intent of the segment. It would've pulled back the curtain, so to speak.
About a year ago, I deleted my thread in which I fact-checked many of Cherry's claims. While my corrections were all true, I decided the tone was too mean-spirited....so I removed it. The point had been made.
I wish I'd left it up...if only to provide examples of what the CBC and MacLean fostered and enabled. Our national broadcaster took in tons of "Coach's Corner" advertising revenue over the years, and MacLean is on Canada's Walk of Fame along with Don. Lots of money/notoriety/business opportunities in being Cherry's set-up man/patsy.
Yes, Don went too far this time....but not-so-fast to the abettors.
THEY would never say such things....but they were only too happy to provide, and capitalize on, the environment.
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 10:47:57 GMT -5
I can't help but see this as a bit of a hypocritical turn on the part of the broadcasters and MacLean. Cherry kept his job over the decades BECAUSE he was controversial...not IN SPITE of it. "What will he say next?" was a main selling point, no question. Swearing allegiance to the Leafs was also a key element in his longevity--a "get out of jail free" card. Cherry was given an uncontested podium for 38 years. Neither fact-checked by the CBC, nor overly-admonished by MacLean. Such a process would've undermined the intent of the segment. It would've pulled back the curtain, so to speak. About a year ago, I deleted my thread in which I fact-checked many of Cherry's claims. While my corrections were all true, I decided the tone was too mean-spirited....so I removed it. The point had been made. I wish I'd left it up...if only to provide examples of what the CBC and MacLean fostered and enabled. Our national broadcaster took in tons of "Coach's Corner" advertising revenue over the years, and MacLean is on Canada's Walk of Fame along with Don. Lots of money/notoriety/business opportunities in being Cherry's set-up man/patsy. Yes, Don went too far this time....but not-so-fast to the abettors. THEY would never say such things....but they were only too happy to provide, and capitalize on, the environment. While I would say that MacLean never fact-checked him, I think up to Rose's death he certainly tried to reign him in when he went off the rails. Hodge did too. MacLean is part of the problem though. So is the network. They enabled him to slide further and further since Rose's death in 1997. What changed? Revenue. HNIC and Rogers are bleeding cash. Cherry used to be a cash cow, but he's not making up for the losses. People aren't watching and Rogers isn't making back the money on their investment. So, things had/have to change. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 10:49:44 GMT -5
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Post by franko on Nov 12, 2019 10:50:31 GMT -5
blame it on the CBC . . . which is interesting as it is maligned as a bastion for lefties. Cherry brought the MotherCorp great revenue dollars so thems-that-made-the-decisions kept him on. SN actually tried to get him to retire and went with the (failed) Strombo experiment. needing the viewership, Rogers held their collective noses and brought him back.
it appears that part 2 of getting Cherry to retire failed this past summer as well. would he have been resigned when his contract came up again? we'll never know.
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Post by jkr on Nov 12, 2019 11:24:17 GMT -5
That's a story I didn't know. Thanks man. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 12, 2019 11:44:18 GMT -5
He's right. And his bigotry was evident early on....and tolerated/excused as long as the bottom line was being met. No matter if the CBC leans to the left or not...money puts on a lot of political blinders. If they'd fired him in the mid-80s, I doubt he'd have resurrected a broadcasting career--with the exception of NESN, perhaps. But not on a national scale. The Rock'em Sock'em series was just a longer version of "Coach's Corner". It might not have seen the light of day had his bigotry nipped that career in the bud. He's allowed to say what he thinks....but, as has been mentioned, he's not immune from consequence. Freedom of speech is a fine balance. The lines drawn and consequences dealt can be abused. I don't think that's happened in this case. Cherry finally blew it....but the blame isn't just on him. I'm curious about one thing: I've seen a clip of Cherry prepping for "Coach's Corner" during the week. He writes everything down. He knows what he's going to say. MacLean always knows the topics Don's going to cover, as he sets him up/keeps him on track. Is that as far as the pre-show prep goes between the two? Does Ron know only the topic title and not the content? I find that hard to believe. In other words, did MacLean know Cherry was going to say what he did, or was it a loose cannon moment? MacLean didn't express any grimace or "shocked" reaction. He simply nodded...and even gave a thumbs up, no? ============================ I'm sure Orr will be asked for comment. He's written that Cherry belongs in the Hall of Fame. |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 12:10:47 GMT -5
That's a story I didn't know. Thanks man. I didn't have that whole picture either, but I knew many of them did fight for the allied forces in ww1. My pleasure. If anything, his ignorant diatribe on Saturday is producing lots of fact-based pieces showing his ignorance. Now, if we could only get the rest of that base to actually read them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 13:11:42 GMT -5
I'm sure Orr will be asked for comment. He's written that Cherry belongs in the Hall of Fame. I think a lot of people seem to oversell the impact that Don Cherry has had on the game. He hasn't coached in the NHL in nearly 40 years, and has no involvement (if I understand correctly) in further development of the game. I bit my lip a bit when Bob McKenzie stated how much Don did for the game...and yet, he didn't list any particular concrete example. He may have been a dynamic figure as an NHL coach, but in the 40 years since then? What has he done? |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 13:17:10 GMT -5
I'm sure Orr will be asked for comment. He's written that Cherry belongs in the Hall of Fame. I think a lot of people seem to oversell the impact that Don Cherry has had on the game. He hasn't coached in the NHL in nearly 40 years, and has no involvement (if I understand correctly) in further development of the game. I bit my lip a bit when Bob McKenzie stated how much Don did for the game...and yet, he didn't list any particular concrete example. He may have been a dynamic figure as an NHL coach, but in the 40 years since then? What has he done? Bob definitely skirted the issue as best he could in his radio call-in piece. I thought the segment that Gino Reda did with TSN radio was far more biting and didn't pull punches. The last time Cherry tried to do anything that could be remotely considered an attempt to actually grow the game was his failed attempt to make an All-Canadian Mississauga IceDogs team. That blew up in his face big time. What a gong show that was. |
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 12, 2019 13:30:01 GMT -5
You know who I would like to see replace Don? An actual coach. And not another blow-hard like Brian Burke. Give me somebody who knows the modern game, who is either currently working in it, or maybe one of those cerebral players who can break it down. I like Mike Johnson personally, but you get the idea.
Then have them actually break-down the game in more detail than "don't stick your stick in front of a shot". And not whatever game happens to be on that night either - three quarters of the time it's not the game I'm watching anyways. Do what actual NHL teams do; give me a video breakdown of the league's top power-play, show me how to effectively break-out of your own zone, explain what an NHL "system" really is. How to block shots, how to cycle, how set up for a 6-5 faceoff with 15 seconds left in a 1-goal game. You know, coaching stuff. With the rise in interest in advanced stats, and the untold number of blog posts/sites/feeds that are doing their own video analysis these days I definitely think there is a market for it. Especially among the "new" NHL fans (though certainly many of us old fogies would be interested too).
Then you can finish off the segment with a 30 second "drill of the week" for the volunteer coaches out there struggling to run a practice. Something they can try on their own teams. Make it a downloadable drill from the Hockey Night in Canada website (archiving previous editions of course) to direct traffic to your site.
I think that would be more interesting than listening to Burke/Strombone/whoever ripping somebody for botching a pass or something.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 12, 2019 13:48:05 GMT -5
Good idea, BC.
All depends on what they're going for in that segment. They might be looking for another "personality".
Maybe Kelly Hrudey moves up an intermission for now?
I just might tune into HNIT to see what happens after the first period.
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 14:39:04 GMT -5
You know who I would like to see replace Don? An actual coach. And not another blow-hard like Brian Burke. Give me somebody who knows the modern game, who is either currently working in it, or maybe one of those cerebral players who can break it down. I like Mike Johnson personally, but you get the idea. Then have them actually break-down the game in more detail than "don't stick your stick in front of a shot". And not whatever game happens to be on that night either - three quarters of the time it's not the game I'm watching anyways. Do what actual NHL teams do; give me a video breakdown of the league's top power-play, show me how to effectively break-out of your own zone, explain what an NHL "system" really is. How to block shots, how to cycle, how set up for a 6-5 faceoff with 15 seconds left in a 1-goal game. You know, coaching stuff. With the rise in interest in advanced stats, and the untold number of blog posts/sites/feeds that are doing their own video analysis these days I definitely think there is a market for it. Especially among the "new" NHL fans (though certainly many of us old fogies would be interested too). Then you can finish off the segment with a 30 second "drill of the week" for the volunteer coaches out there struggling to run a practice. Something they can try on their own teams. Make it a downloadable drill from the Hockey Night in Canada website (archiving previous editions of course) to direct traffic to your site. I think that would be more interesting than listening to Burke/Strombone/whoever ripping somebody for botching a pass or something. While I like Poulin on TSN's regional coverage I wouldn't be upset if he were poached. I think he's even better than Johnson. He breaks down the game very well and can concisely describe it from a player and coach perspective. I keep coming back to Kevin Weeks though. Since being unceremoniously dumped by HNIC, he's done good work for the NHL Network. He's well spoken, works well on camera, and is young enough that he gets the modern game and the players in it. |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 14:43:08 GMT -5
Good idea, BC. All depends on what they're going for in that segment. They might be looking for another "personality". Maybe Kelly Hrudey moves up an intermission for now? I just might tune into HNIT to see what happens after the first period. If they don't continue with the current 'format' beyond this year, I'd like to see it changed to something like the following: 1. The after 40 segment of rumours and league buzz gets moved to pregame show. 2. Rogers could save a mint by not doing the Sunday night Hometown Hockey broadcast, and 3. Move the segment hosted by Ron and Tara to the two intermissions. Kick Ron to the curb again. Let Tara do the grassroots stuff during the week, like she is now. She's good at it, and I think the content is good. Move from city to city, do a piece on hockey in the area and tie into a present or former NHLer from the area. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 15:46:12 GMT -5
I'm sure Remembrance Day means a lot to minorities and recent immigrants (last 20 years).
Fun Facts......visible minorities make up 22.3% of the Canadian population and only 7.2% of the Canadian armed forces DESPITE targeted attempts to recruit them.
(Ohhhh and just for the record, my father-in-law suffered horrendous PSD and my father lost an eye.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 15:51:42 GMT -5
The last time Cherry tried to do anything that could be remotely considered an attempt to actually grow the game was his failed attempt to make an All-Canadian Mississauga IceDogs team. That blew up in his face big time. What a gong show that was. Ah yes, I remember this. This should encapsulate everything wrong with Don's philosophy, and yet not enough people seem to bring this up. |
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Post by blny on Nov 12, 2019 15:54:02 GMT -5
The last time Cherry tried to do anything that could be remotely considered an attempt to actually grow the game was his failed attempt to make an All-Canadian Mississauga IceDogs team. That blew up in his face big time. What a gong show that was. Ah yes, I remember this. This should encapsulate everything wrong with Don's philosophy, and yet not enough people seem to bring this up. At the time, it made news. It's been 17 years since he washed his hands of the organization. It should be required reading, but definitely got forgotten. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 16:06:58 GMT -5
You know who I would like to see replace Don? An actual coach. And not another blow-hard like Brian Burke. Give me somebody who knows the modern game, who is either currently working in it, or maybe one of those cerebral players who can break it down. I like Mike Johnson personally, but you get the idea. Then have them actually break-down the game in more detail than "don't stick your stick in front of a shot". And not whatever game happens to be on that night either - three quarters of the time it's not the game I'm watching anyways. Do what actual NHL teams do; give me a video breakdown of the league's top power-play, show me how to effectively break-out of your own zone, explain what an NHL "system" really is. How to block shots, how to cycle, how set up for a 6-5 faceoff with 15 seconds left in a 1-goal game. You know, coaching stuff. With the rise in interest in advanced stats, and the untold number of blog posts/sites/feeds that are doing their own video analysis these days I definitely think there is a market for it. Especially among the "new" NHL fans (though certainly many of us old fogies would be interested too). Then you can finish off the segment with a 30 second "drill of the week" for the volunteer coaches out there struggling to run a practice. Something they can try on their own teams. Make it a downloadable drill from the Hockey Night in Canada website (archiving previous editions of course) to direct traffic to your site. I think that would be more interesting than listening to Burke/Strombone/whoever ripping somebody for botching a pass or something. And that will appeal to about 10% of the viewers. Fast forward was created to by-pass Cheery and company. In all the years, I bet I listen less then 10 rants and even those, in tiny doses. He was what he was but he drew in audiences so they let him rant. That is until they cost benefit analysis didn't work for them. I don't even have the tiniest bit of care that Cherry was fired. What I have an issue with is that his rant buries an issue. There are not enough visible minorities joining our Armed forces and his rants gives cover to "We Love Canada" but apparently not enough to defend it. Now imagine it the ahole was lucid enough to make a case about minorities joining the forces. On the other hand, even if he said...."we need more visible minorities to join our great Canadian Armed Forces". On the face of it, not racist, but how much are you willing to bet that it would be spun around as "racist", even though factually, they are joining at 1/3 the rate? Within minutes, there would be an outcry of racism and examples of visible minorities in uniform splattered everywhere in the media....but the fact would be buried. Another just for the record...........my father fought all through WW2. From the front lines in Albania, through the mountains as a guerrilla fighter. Yet, any talk of me joining the Canadian armed forces as a fighter pilot (SEXY!) was slapped down. After all, the old country should be my "real love" and not this "country we came to make money". I bet the house that it's still the go-to lines of the majority of immigrants. That is why we need to have a soft conversation....and the Cherries of this world are black holes that ruin it. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 16:11:08 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 16:29:25 GMT -5
I met Cherry a few decades back when he had a restaurant in western GTA. He sat on our table and we talked about the Bruins and Habs. No take away other then he sounds in life as brash as he does on tv. On the other hand, 5 minutes does not cover much other then several one liners back and forth.
I wonder......with all his contacts, did anyone ever sit him down and try to explain how much good he could do for the armed forces? I do not doubt that he loves them, but I also doubt he has enough IQ, no, seriously, I do not think he is smart enough to be an effective spokesman. Somehow he would find a way to put his foot in his mouth. And the media being what it is, would make sure that everything he said would be translated as hoof-in-mouth racist.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 12, 2019 16:40:06 GMT -5
There's a job advising people how to harrass others? Where do I apply? Don't laugh, dude, but I had to organize security for a section of NDHQ, Ottawa, in preparation for protesters ... these were professional protesters, folks who actually get paid to show up and protest whatever they're told to ... the most famous professional protester was the sap Jean Chretien threw to the ground with what's known now as the Shawinigan Handshake * ... anyway, we knew when they'd be there doing their thing because they don't miss meals ... they'll have breakfast at home and be back on the bus and home for supper ... so, yeah, there are jobs like that ... Cheers. I'm surprised that people don't know that. Is that because the leftist media call them benignly "activists" and hides their actions and intents? Nahhh.....  That's nothing. In the old country, there are professional anarchist. When I say professional, I mean PROFESSIONAL, they even have courses how to make and throw molotov cocktails and where is the best spot to burst them so the police get a nice burn out of them. The former far leftist government let them free reign and now, with a right wing government, they are surprised they are crack downs. In what country and what planet is molotov cocktails "freedom of speech"? Yet to the far leftist THERE, it's their right to "resist" the man.....with a good burn. On the other hand, when the cops picked up unbroken bottles and fired back at them, it was assault. New Rules.....now cops firing back with rubber bullets and any errant molotov finding it's way back to the sender is fair game. For some reason "anarchist profession" is losing it's sex appeal. LOL |
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Post by frozone on Nov 12, 2019 17:34:04 GMT -5
I'm sure Remembrance Day means a lot to minorities and recent immigrants (last 20 years). Fun Facts......visible minorities make up 22.3% of the Canadian population and only 7.2% of the Canadian armed forces DESPITE targeted attempts to recruit them. (Ohhhh and just for the record, my father-in-law suffered horrendous PSD and my father lost an eye.) As a visible minority myself, I find it not racist, but extremely awkward when such topics are boiled down to race and race alone. Don't you think there are tons of other factors that would be worth presenting? Or does it really just all come down to one's complexion? Socio-economic background, whether you're first generation, second generation, etc... none of that matters? And really, what is our expectation? Do we expect immigrants to arrive to Canada and to immediately adopt the same depth of love for our country as a family that has been here for generations? I think it's only natural that this takes time. If anything, the metric that one would want to see is that the percentage you presented is rising. And according to this article, it is: globalnews.ca/news/4450927/canada-armed-forces-diversity-goals-digital-recruiting/
"At the end of fiscal 2018, visible minorities made up 7.2 per cent of the regular Forces versus 6 per cent in 2016. The 2026 target is 11.8 per cent."And sometimes it helps to just know what life is like on the other side. For one thing, I find it very annoying that the corporate world is so hesitant to reach out to visible minorities, yet the armed forces are specifically targeting this demographic. As much as I support the Armed Forces, there's some conflict that comes with the thought of joining. I can only imagine what women go through when they consider joining the forces. Just my 2 cents... I think we all lack a full perspective on this. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2019 17:35:53 GMT -5
Now imagine it the ahole was lucid enough to make a case about minorities joining the forces. On the other hand, even if he said...."we need more visible minorities to join our great Canadian Armed Forces". On the face of it, not racist, but how much are you willing to bet that it would be spun around as "racist", even though factually, they are joining at 1/3 the rate? Within minutes, there would be an outcry of racism and examples of visible minorities in uniform splattered everywhere in the media....but the fact would be buried. This is what is so confusing to me about the whole scenario ... Don Cherry didn't really think this one out too much, because if he had he'd have remembered seeing lots of immigrants who already wear the uniform in defence of the country ... and if he remembered those soldiers he'd probably have remembered seeing scads of immigrant policemen who wear the uniform to keep our communities safe ... The only way I can relate to this is to tell you what happened to me while living in Germany (get your helmet on, war story ensues) ... the 1991 Gulf War as only a few months away ... my battalion was placed on 30 days notice to move and my sergeant ordered me to compile a shortlist of soldiers I'd take with me if, in the event, we deployed to the Middle East ... the whole Lahr area was talking about the war and whether or not the Canadians were going to deploy ... now, part of my daily routine in Germany was to stop off at the Gasthaus in my village after work and have a beer before going home ... one of the elderly gentlemen, Jurgen, I used to raise a glass with had heard the rumours that the whole brigade could deploy ... one night he took me aside and asked me if the scuttlebutt over Iraq was true, and I remember telling him that it was (it was no big secret) ... then told me about his experiences when the Russians paved over Eastern Europe ... he raised his arms as if he was holding a machine gun and to this day I remember his words, "... "Richard, Ich habe gemacht boom-boom-boom und you-do-not-want-to-do-that"... I think that's where your dad was coming from when he kyboshed your notion of entering the service ... veterans like him won't talk too much about their experiences because they've lived through the horrors of war firsthand ... haven't talked about that in probably decades ... all that said, you'd done well, anyway, HA ... the service would have probably held you back ... Cheers. |
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