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Post by Skilly on Oct 7, 2020 15:49:54 GMT -5
A goalie ...Jakub Dobes
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 7, 2020 15:50:32 GMT -5
A big Czech goalie from the USHL. Dobes.
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 7, 2020 16:11:24 GMT -5
Besides the second round I feel like this has been a flop.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 7, 2020 17:00:30 GMT -5
A Russian forward. Alexander Gordin.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 7, 2020 17:01:28 GMT -5
I can think of two reasons: * They have to sign these guys by a certain date, so if too many of those prospects all need to be signed at the same time there won't be enough contracts to go around for everybody. We've already seen them let a couple go in former 3rd rounder Scott Walford and former 5th rounder Jarret Tyszka. Spread the picks out a little bit and you don't have to worry as much. * Having multiple second rounders next year gives them some trade deadline ammo. It's not THAT big a drop. Even if the Lightning win the Cup again next year it will be a drop of what? 5 spots? 6 spots? Would anybody have blinked an eye if we had of traded the 57th for 62nd and a 4th? We just pushed it a year, is all. EDIT: Or, you know, what PTH said.You could have brought up that case when we had to renounce rights to a guy, you know, that 25 page, rambling thread, about 20 years ago, about still-famous Chris Dyment. That rant wasn't about rights. It was about giving kids an opportunity to play instead of playing vets who aren't part of the future. Dyment was just a poster boy for it, though as a 4th round pick, he wasn't much of a realistic shot to make the team. And hmmmmm, it seems not much has changed. Maybe we could make it a Juulsen thread instead of Dyment. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 7, 2020 17:03:59 GMT -5
Besides the second round I feel like this has been a flop. Outside of the top pick last year I didn't know the kids chosen, but the 2nd and 3rd rounds look fine today. |
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Draft '20
Oct 7, 2020 17:23:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 7, 2020 17:23:06 GMT -5
A Russian forward. Alexander Gordin. After the second round there may be one gem each year out of all 200 picks left. Trading up three for one is OK with me. |
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 7, 2020 17:36:08 GMT -5
...moreso since spreading out the picks and the contract slot requirements makes sense. Of the 8 players drafted by Montreal today only 2 need to be signed within the next two years (Guhle and Mysak). The remaining 6 need only be signed by 2024, 2025, or their rights are held indefinitely. Interesting strategy. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 7, 2020 18:03:01 GMT -5
...moreso since spreading out the picks and the contract slot requirements makes sense. Of the 8 players drafted by Montreal today only 2 need to be signed within the next two years (Guhle and Mysak). The remaining 6 need only be signed by 2024, 2025, or their rights are held indefinitely. Interesting strategy. Yup, noticed that trend today. Mysak basically fell in their lap or else it could have been one other guy too. The Habs had 11 picks in the 2021 draft, but by my count, added 3 more today. 14 again...Berg will no doubt keep moving some out a year from now as that is far too many. I am a bit surprised they did not keep at least one more pick today: 10 is not a crazy number. He who makes the most irrelevant draft pick trades wins it would appear. |
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Post by folatre on Oct 7, 2020 20:18:35 GMT -5
Meh, kind of underwhelming on the surface at least. The Timmins-Bergevin fascination with American players over the years has been a little mystifying, though judging from today it is stronger than ever.
Obviously we have to wait five years to see how everything works out.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 7, 2020 20:42:33 GMT -5
Meh, kind of underwhelming on the surface at least. The Timmins-Bergevin fascination with American players over the years has been a little mystifying, though judging from today it is stronger than ever. Obviously we have to wait five years to see how everything works out. Yeah, that is the word that has been buzzing in my head since last night: underwhelming. This was a decent and deep draft, so my early impressions are that we left some potential on the table. Berg’s fascination with moving picks in a good draft or in a solid round is so tiresome. The American obsession was a bit on steroids too today, as they definitely opted that direction versus some of the good Canadian and Euro depth in this draft. Shocking to see no Canadian born kids picked today, given it was a decently deep draft for Canada compared to our southern neighbours. I get the whole BPA concept and the fact that targeted players do fall in between our picks, but that refrain seems pretty stale these days. We did pick up some nice pieces that I like. So, we definitely added to our pool. I will do a deeper dive and post more in the near future. Yeah, we won’t know for five years bla bla bla, but some of the kids picked today should help down the road. That Day 2 took decades too long today on tv. No idea why, other than it was all uncharted territory. I kept bouncing in and out, amazed at how long it took between picks. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 8, 2020 10:28:10 GMT -5
Besides the second round I feel like this has been a flop. Outside of the top pick last year I didn't know the kids chosen, but the 2nd and 3rd rounds look fine today. You must have a magic eight ball … because I don't see any of them with NHL games next to their names yet. It is still the same as last year. Habs fans thinking they have selected goldmines … everyone keeps saying Struble and Norlinder are going to make it, but they all can't .. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 8, 2020 10:32:21 GMT -5
Meh, kind of underwhelming on the surface at least. The Timmins-Bergevin fascination with American players over the years has been a little mystifying, though judging from today it is stronger than ever. Obviously we have to wait five years to see how everything works out. Yeah, that is the word that has been buzzing in my head since last night: underwhelming. This was a decent and deep draft, so my early impressions are that we left some potential on the table. Berg’s fascination with moving picks in a good draft or in a solid round is so tiresome. The American obsession was a bit on steroids too today, as they definitely opted that direction versus some of the good Canadian and Euro depth in this draft. Shocking to see no Canadian born kids picked today, given it was a decently deep draft for Canada compared to our southern neighbours. I get the whole BPA concept and the fact that targeted players do fall in between our picks, but that refrain seems pretty stale these days. We did pick up some nice pieces that I like. So, we definitely added to our pool. I will do a deeper dive and post more in the near future. Yeah, we won’t know for five years bla bla bla, but some of the kids picked today should help down the road. That Day 2 took decades too long today on tv. No idea why, other than it was all uncharted territory. I kept bouncing in and out, amazed at how long it took between picks. If this draft was held at the Bell Center (as it was suppose to be) and not virtually … this draft would have been much much different for MTL. The pressure to select from the Q would have been enormous with all those fans in the building … And it feels as if Bergevin / Timmins took advantage of that. All those picks and not a single Q player? |
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Post by folatre on Oct 8, 2020 11:17:33 GMT -5
You make a good point, Skilly. I agree.
Who is the Habs chief scout for Quebec and the Maritimes? Donald Audette. This was the best draft class from the Q in more than a decade. Is this guy a mouse, does he not speak up in meetings? Even if management did not believe in Lapierre, kids like Villenueve and Dufour in the fourth round would not have been a reach.
Whoever is Montreal's Minnesota (U.S. Midwest) scout sure seems to get Timmins attention with whatever he says about those kids. I mean, that Jack Smith kid was totally out of the blue sky. I don't think he was top 150 in any publication.
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 8, 2020 12:03:29 GMT -5
You make a good point, Skilly. I agree. Who is the Habs chief scout for Quebec and the Maritimes? Donald Audette. This was the best draft class from the Q in more than a decade. Is this guy a mouse, does he not speak up in meetings? Even if management did not believe in Lapierre, kids like Villenueve and Dufour in the fourth round would not have been a reach. Whoever is Montreal's Minnesota (U.S. Midwest) scout sure seems to get Timmins attention with whatever he says about those kids. I mean, that Jack Smith kid was totally out of the blue sky. I don't think he was top 150 in any publication. Lets be honest....what qualifies Donald Audette as a head scout of QC and Maratime? Yes he played in the NHL, but that doesn't mean you have an eye for talent. Sounds like it was a Bergie friend hire a la Lefebvre to me back in Aug 2012. As for the Scouts: It is Nick Carriere for the NCAA and Trevor Hanson and Bobby Kinsella for amateur scouting in the USA. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 8, 2020 12:14:15 GMT -5
Yeah, with a live audience, they would have picked some Q kids to built up the crowd frenzy. And they would not have moved as many picks out to 2021. More picks, more engaged crowd.
In his presser, TT was asked twice about his lack of Q picks over the last five years. He used the usual “stick to the draft board” and they fall between our picks routine.
He also mentioned that moving picks forward is about balancing their draft grid and the 50 contract limit each year, while also having assets going forward for trades, etc. I get that, but if there is a guy in a deep draft that you really like at #57, then you grab him because there is no guarantee you will get the same chance at next year’s draft. It is also why they picked more kids whose rights don’t expire for either the next 4 or 5 years. More contract flexibility and longer control of assets.
Hey Trevor, I get that, but the same applies to Euro draft picks...4 years of control of rights. It was a decent draft for some more Euro kids and not just USHL/USHS kids. Only 2 of 8 from the CHL, the strongest junior development circuit around seems a tad light, even given the desire to balance out ELC deals over the years. Heck, they have 14 picks next draft again and 8 in 22. It will be a perennial draft pick deferral program for a while.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 8, 2020 12:18:22 GMT -5
You make a good point, Skilly. I agree. Who is the Habs chief scout for Quebec and the Maritimes? Donald Audette. This was the best draft class from the Q in more than a decade. Is this guy a mouse, does he not speak up in meetings? Even if management did not believe in Lapierre, kids like Villenueve and Dufour in the fourth round would not have been a reach. Whoever is Montreal's Minnesota (U.S. Midwest) scout sure seems to get Timmins attention with whatever he says about those kids. I mean, that Jack Smith kid was totally out of the blue sky. I don't think he was top 150 in any publication. Lets be honest....what qualifies Donald Audette as a head scout of QC and Maratime? Yes he played in the NHL, but that doesn't mean you have an eye for talent. Sounds like it was a Bergie friend hire a la Lefebvre to me back in Aug 2012. As for the Scouts: It is Nick Carriere for the NCAA and Trevor Hanson and Bobby Kinsella for amateur scouting in the USA. They also have Boisvert and Morin who are crossover scouts, who will see a lot of Q games as well as other leagues. Then there is Churla, who covers all leagues same as TT. They have far more (and better) eyes than just Audette. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 8, 2020 12:48:10 GMT -5
Lets be honest....what qualifies Donald Audette as a head scout of QC and Maratime? Yes he played in the NHL, but that doesn't mean you have an eye for talent. Sounds like it was a Bergie friend hire a la Lefebvre to me back in Aug 2012. As for the Scouts: It is Nick Carriere for the NCAA and Trevor Hanson and Bobby Kinsella for amateur scouting in the USA. They also have Boisvert and Morin who are crossover scouts, who will see a lot of Q games as well as other leagues. Then there is Churla, who covers all leagues same as TT. They have far more (and better) eyes than just Audette. No Canadien team has won Lord Stanley’s Cup in 27 years. No Canadian team has won it either. Canadian teams have sent lots of equalization payments to southern teams to ensure 32 profitable NHL teams. The system is broken. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 8, 2020 15:32:05 GMT -5
You make a good point, Skilly. I agree. Who is the Habs chief scout for Quebec and the Maritimes? Donald Audette. This was the best draft class from the Q in more than a decade. Is this guy a mouse, does he not speak up in meetings? Even if management did not believe in Lapierre, kids like Villenueve and Dufour in the fourth round would not have been a reach. Whoever is Montreal's Minnesota (U.S. Midwest) scout sure seems to get Timmins attention with whatever he says about those kids. I mean, that Jack Smith kid was totally out of the blue sky. I don't think he was top 150 in any publication. Those two are exactly who I was thinking about ....the fourth and fifth rounds, it’s very hard to separate these kids. BUT We had three fourth round selections ... why not select Villenueve with one of them? Now he was gone just before the Farrell selection and you’ll have a hard time convincing me that Jack Smith or Blake Biondi are that much better than Villeneuve. But even if they were, with all the selections they had this year and next they had 13 picks to attempt to move up to nab him ....I don’t think it would have been that hard And the fifth round? There was no excuse either. We picked an obscure goaltender. But we have Cayden Primeau. We have at least 4 years of Price, and then Primeau and a plethora of young goalies. No one would be crying 5-6 years from now if we picked Dufour, regardless how he turned out |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 8, 2020 15:44:15 GMT -5
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Post by PTH on Oct 8, 2020 16:05:34 GMT -5
I believe him. But I also believe that he doesn't have any great faith in the Q overall, or just doesn't connect well with francophones who speak english badly (usually the case at 17), so they always end up slightly underrated - doesn't mean they aren't on the list, just means they are never available since other teams have different preferences, including a fondness for the Q. If our scouts really loved the Q, I'm sure over the years a few more guys would've been taken, and that's the problem. I've got nothing against Guhle other than difficulty in spelling both his names, same for our other picks. But it's not normal that Montreal is the only team not to have drafted a Q player in the first 4 rounds since 2014. |
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Post by folatre on Oct 8, 2020 17:16:09 GMT -5
I am almost a bit surprised that Molson does not strongly recommend (i.e. order) Timmins and Bergevin grab a kid or two in the fourth round if they ended up passing on Lapierre at #16, since we all know that Molson is very sensitive to these issues. It would have been an easy way to keep criticism at arms length and let's face it some high school hockey player from Minnesota who was not ranked in the top 150 in any publication and a 5'8" kid from Chicago are most likely irrelevant prospects in the system when it is all said and done. It is not to say Villeneuve or Dufour are better than long shots to have NHL careers, but they are certainly no more of a reach than Smith and Farrell. And it gives the Q a promotional boost to have local media talking about Habs prospects on those teams.
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Draft '20
Oct 8, 2020 21:28:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GNick99 on Oct 8, 2020 21:28:33 GMT -5
Carolina had great draft. Getting Pashin and Seeley both in 7th round. Considering their mid draft slot. Their head scout must see games similar to me. Jarvis in first and Gunler to me also was great picks. Nybeck is solid 4th rounder.
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Draft '20
Oct 8, 2020 21:30:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GNick99 on Oct 8, 2020 21:30:30 GMT -5
I believe him. But I also believe that he doesn't have any great faith in the Q overall, or just doesn't connect well with francophones who speak english badly (usually the case at 17), so they always end up slightly underrated - doesn't mean they aren't on the list, just means they are never available since other teams have different preferences, including a fondness for the Q. If our scouts really loved the Q, I'm sure over the years a few more guys would've been taken, and that's the problem. I've got nothing against Guhle other than difficulty in spelling both his names, same for our other picks. But it's not normal that Montreal is the only team not to have drafted a Q player in the first 4 rounds since 2014. Knew that when he passed on Bergeron and Giroux. |
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Post by folatre on Oct 8, 2020 21:30:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I like what Carolina did. They shot for a bunch of high ceiling kids.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 9, 2020 8:36:41 GMT -5
Carolina had great draft. Getting Pashin and Seeley both in 7th round. Considering their mid draft slot. Their head scout must see games similar to me. Jarvis in first and Gunler to me also was great picks. Nybeck is solid 4th rounder. Really nice picks at all those spots. A certain wow factor that our list is missing. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 9, 2020 13:20:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I like what Carolina did. They shot for a bunch of high ceiling kids. makes sense. High risk and even if all but one fall through, that one might make up for all the rest. There's a similarity to investing in small cap stocks. You know most of them will never turn out but if one does, it makes the entire investment, losses and all, worth it. |
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Draft '20
Oct 14, 2020 17:24:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GNick99 on Oct 14, 2020 17:24:26 GMT -5
I think so much more media pressure here in Q players. Last 5 or 6 have asked to leave due to it. Claude Lemieux, Patrick Roy, Carbonneau, Lafleur |
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Draft '20
Nov 18, 2020 21:41:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GNick99 on Nov 18, 2020 21:41:42 GMT -5
Sam Cosentino was on Hockey Central couple of days ago. Said Amirov is off to good start. Could be steal of draft. Couple of teams had him in their top 10. Holloway is off to good start also. Could be good pick for Oilers. Said from Feb. 1 to shutdown his numbers were much better.
He said with Feb. 4th start date and no contact rule, Brandt Clarke is looking in Euro leagues for a place to play. He is projected top 10 pick in next year's draft.
Chase Stillman went to Denmark to be able to play. He is potential first round pick in this upcoming draft.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 27, 2020 5:12:24 GMT -5
I believe him. But I also believe that he doesn't have any great faith in the Q overall, or just doesn't connect well with francophones who speak english badly (usually the case at 17), so they always end up slightly underrated - doesn't mean they aren't on the list, just means they are never available since other teams have different preferences, including a fondness for the Q. If our scouts really loved the Q, I'm sure over the years a few more guys would've been taken, and that's the problem. I've got nothing against Guhle other than difficulty in spelling both his names, same for our other picks. But it's not normal that Montreal is the only team not to have drafted a Q player in the first 4 rounds since 2014. Knew that when he passed on Bergeron and Giroux. I believe that the Office de la Langue Francois was given 5 billion dollars to hire inspectors to scout the QUEBEC major junior hockey league. They will also change all /P no parking signs to /S stationment. |
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