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Post by folatre on Sept 23, 2020 19:51:21 GMT -5
LA and Boston, yeah for sure, there are no guarantees that Suzuki and Kotkaniemi in their primes will make Montreal a legit Stanley Cup contender. But if I was a betting man I would say the odds of that happening are better than Montreal being a serious candidate in the next season or two.
Therefore, my focus as GM would be on assembling pieces who are young enough to have runway to help Suzuki and Kotkaniemi when they reach the top of their game. For instance, I would give up something decent to get Josh Anderson because he is 26 years old and could still be important when the kid centres become men. In contrast, I would not want to spend cap space or assets on Killorn because he is 31 and by the time the kids are ready to carry the team he would be basically useless.
Bergevin will have a difficult balancing act over the next few months. He really cannot afford to keep all of the vets looking for hefty raises on longish term deals. But he needs to figure out who is indispensable and who can legitimately provide value to the roster three or four seasons into the future.
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Post by PTH on Sept 23, 2020 21:10:59 GMT -5
Bergevin will have a difficult balancing act over the next few months. He really cannot afford to keep all of the vets looking for hefty raises on longish term deals. But he needs to figure out who is indispensable and who can legitimately provide value to the roster three or four seasons into the future. On the other hand, if his way of thinking is truly "get into the playoffs and anything can happen", then he can try to add complementary pieces now, and figure he'll do the same in 3 years... If he were thinking in terms of windows for an actual Cup, he'd be thinking like you are (though frankly, I think Weber and Price wouldn't be happy at hearing that the plan is to contend when they are 3 years closer to retirement Of course, their options for complaining are limited by their contracts: there aren't many teams that could take on their contracts.)
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 24, 2020 0:36:56 GMT -5
My view is MB should go for it this season. If it doesn't work, or even if it does, you blow it up at the end. Let most our our FAs walk at the end, or trade them if the Cup is a long shot come trade deadline. Fact is Carey, Weber, Petry, Gally, and Tatar are not going to be helpful when Suze and KK hit their prime. So my view is this year should be one last shot for Carey and Shea. We've got the young talent and the veterans. and it would seem MB's solidified our goal and D for next year. It's that middle group where we're lacking, particularly upon front.
I'd take a run at Laine. Laine is younger but already a stud so I would certainly consider taking on the last year of his contract as he's exactly what we need up front right now. We may also be able to keep him once we let the other FAs walk and he'd be an upgrade on all the forward FAs. Big question is what would we have to give up for a guy who will be a FA in a year. But Domi, a prospect and a 2nd should do it.
But my real preference would be Ehlers as he would be both an immediate solution and give us a chance next year. And he would also be a long term solution as he's signed through to 2025, right through his prime. To have him with KK and Suze up front for the next 5 years, all in their 20s, would be powerful up front and maybe the strongest we've been in decades.
Bottom line: MB needs to decide, does he go for it in Carey and Shea's window or does he start the rebuild. I think with Laine or Ehlers, he can do both.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 24, 2020 7:26:48 GMT -5
I'mm much more worried about Price than Weber, in that regard. In 2 seasons, Weber will be down to 3M, and 1M after that. I think the guy will seriously consider retirement, even if he could linger on as a 2nd or 3d pairing guy with leadership. Price though, could easily soldier on until 39 while being a platooning goalie who can still give elite performances in short spurts. Which would be fine if he weren't going to be making elite level money. I'm not so sure about Weber retiring simply because he's not making enough money. Athletes have a very difficult time deciding to retire. Their whole lives have revolved around the game, their teammates, the lifestyle, the routine and so on. If an athlete has other interests, IMO, they'd be more likely to retire sooner rather than later, especially when the money is factored in. I know very little about Weber. Is he married, children? Does he have other interests in his life? If the answer to those questions is no, then there's very little for him in life without hockey. Perhaps he may be offered a front office job and that would encourage him, but my guess is that he sticks it out as long as he feels he can play the game. He's too proud to fall behind and stick around, but even if he's a 3rd pairing guy and captain, that will keep him from retiring. And keep the Habs fighting an $8MM CAP issue for a player who could be replaced with a $1MM CAP hit. That has always been the risk since the trade. One of two things is going to happen 1) Weber retires at the end of next season or 2022. 2) Weber goes on LTIR before 2024 If Weber retires at the end of 2022 - the cap recapture penalties for MTL and NSH are reasonable. He would have played 10 years of his 14 year contract. If Weber retires beyond 2022, then you are looking at penalties to NSH of 6M if he retires in 2023, 8M if he retires in 2024, 12M if he retires in 2025 and 24M if he retires in 2026. Therefore the most likely scenario, is that there is a nudge-nudge wink-wink between MTL and NSH that Weber ends his career on LTIR
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Post by seventeen on Sept 24, 2020 13:37:33 GMT -5
Bergevin will have a difficult balancing act over the next few months. He really cannot afford to keep all of the vets looking for hefty raises on longish term deals. But he needs to figure out who is indispensable and who can legitimately provide value to the roster three or four seasons into the future. On the other hand, if his way of thinking is truly "get into the playoffs and anything can happen", then he can try to add complementary pieces now, and figure he'll do the same in 3 years... If he were thinking in terms of windows for an actual Cup, he'd be thinking like you are (though frankly, I think Weber and Price wouldn't be happy at hearing that the plan is to contend when they are 3 years closer to retirement Of course, their options for complaining are limited by their contracts: there aren't many teams that could take on their contracts.) This is the definition of a team that will fight for a playoff spot, win a round now and then and have zero chance of winning a Cup. Molson and Berg may be happy with that, but I doubt any real Hab fans are. SC or bust.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 24, 2020 13:44:31 GMT -5
My view is MB should go for it this season. If it doesn't work, or even if it does, you blow it up at the end. Let most our our FAs walk at the end, or trade them if the Cup is a long shot come trade deadline. Fact is Carey, Weber, Petry, Gally, and Tatar are not going to be helpful when Suze and KK hit their prime. So my view is this year should be one last shot for Carey and Shea. We've got the young talent and the veterans. and it would seem MB's solidified our goal and D for next year. It's that middle group where we're lacking, particularly upon front. I'd take a run at Laine. Laine is younger but already a stud so I would certainly consider taking on the last year of his contract as he's exactly what we need up front right now. We may also be able to keep him once we let the other FAs walk and he'd be an upgrade on all the forward FAs. Big question is what would we have to give up for a guy who will be a FA in a year. But Domi, a prospect and a 2nd should do it. But my real preference would be Ehlers as he would be both an immediate solution and give us a chance next year. And he would also be a long term solution as he's signed through to 2025, right through his prime. To have him with KK and Suze up front for the next 5 years, all in their 20s, would be powerful up front and maybe the strongest we've been in decades. Bottom line: MB needs to decide, does he go for it in Carey and Shea's window or does he start the rebuild. I think with Laine or Ehlers, he can do both. That is one option, but be careful of the consequences. Firstly, either Ehlers or Laine is going to cost so are you getting ahead or going sideways? Secondly if you keep your UFA's for that push this year, there is a good likelihood that they walk for nothing next 'summer' and you will have lost assets that could have made you better 3 years from now. I just don't see this team having enough pieces to add to, to be a realistic contender. Three years from now, when two or 3 (hopefully more) of Struble, Norlinder, Ylonen, Xaufield, Harris, Poehling and Primeau are on the team and contributing, the odds look better to me. I can see that team being better than this team, especially if the good drafting continues.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 24, 2020 13:46:24 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about Weber retiring simply because he's not making enough money. Athletes have a very difficult time deciding to retire. Their whole lives have revolved around the game, their teammates, the lifestyle, the routine and so on. If an athlete has other interests, IMO, they'd be more likely to retire sooner rather than later, especially when the money is factored in. I know very little about Weber. Is he married, children? Does he have other interests in his life? If the answer to those questions is no, then there's very little for him in life without hockey. Perhaps he may be offered a front office job and that would encourage him, but my guess is that he sticks it out as long as he feels he can play the game. He's too proud to fall behind and stick around, but even if he's a 3rd pairing guy and captain, that will keep him from retiring. And keep the Habs fighting an $8MM CAP issue for a player who could be replaced with a $1MM CAP hit. That has always been the risk since the trade. One of two things is going to happen 1) Weber retires at the end of next season or 2022. 2) Weber goes on LTIR before 2024 If Weber retires at the end of 2022 - the cap recapture penalties for MTL and NSH are reasonable. He would have played 10 years of his 14 year contract. If Weber retires beyond 2022, then you are looking at penalties to NSH of 6M if he retires in 2023, 8M if he retires in 2024, 12M if he retires in 2025 and 24M if he retires in 2026. Therefore the most likely scenario, is that there is a nudge-nudge wink-wink between MTL and NSH that Weber ends his career on LTIR Highly doubtful we're winning the Cup in the next 2 years, so basically Weber retires and we get nothing for that asset.
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Post by folatre on Sept 24, 2020 15:39:30 GMT -5
I do not mind pushing to acquire an elite sniper like Laine. I do not mind management trying an ambitious offer sheet for Barzal or Dubois. In those cases 'going for it' would require a massive outlay of assets but it makes sense strategically because the players in question are entering the prime of their hockey career.
The kind of 'going for it' that I see as very misguided would entail moves along the lines of: Domi for Saad; a second rounder for Killorn or Tyler Johnson; Josh Brook and 2021 first round pick for Palmieri; Kulak for Hornqvist. In other words, spending assets and/or significant cap space on guys who either won't be around in three or four years or will likely have fallen off dramatically.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 24, 2020 16:31:41 GMT -5
I do not mind pushing to acquire an elite sniper like Laine. I do not mind management trying an ambitious offer sheet for Barzal or Dubois. In those cases 'going for it' would require a massive outlay of assets but it makes sense strategically because the players in question are entering the prime of their hockey career. The kind of 'going for it' that I see as very misguided would entail moves along the lines of: Domi for Saad; a second rounder for Killorn or Tyler Johnson; Josh Brook and 2021 first round pick for Palmieri; Kulak for Hornqvist. In other words, spending assets and/or significant cap space on guys who either won't be around in three or four years or will likely have fallen off dramatically. That's exactly what concerns me. I have this sinking feeling that Bergevin really likes his core, which means Price, Weber, KK and Suzuki, Chiarot, Edmundson and Romanov. Yes that excludes Danault and Gallagher because he has not included them when asked about his core, but that could be how the question was phrased or translated, so give me some wiggle room. The issue is that to get a Laine, it starts with KK or Suzuki. Chevaldayoff is not accepting anything less. To get a proven elite scorer supporting pieces aren't enough. Especially not the guys the Habs have who are not under control for a long time. Yes, Domi is controllable, what would the Jets have with Domi? Uncertainty. A 70 point guy? Or a 55 point guy? If I was Chevy and Bergevin wanted Laine without including KK or Suzuki, the conversation might stop right there. But let's speculate and say they really want to get a deal done. I'm trying to think of players the Jets could use so they can contend right now, but have some life left to them. Domi and Romanov and Juulsen and (first rounder or Lehkonen)? If Romanov's not in there, forget it. There is risk from Winnipeg's standpoint, but a fair bit of upside too. Domi can improve the 2nd line centre even if he has some defensive weaknesses. Romanov is probably the surest thing and Juulsen is a health risk with 2nd pairing potential and then the first rounder or Lehkonen rounds it out. Anyone willing to do that trade?
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Post by UberCranky on Sept 24, 2020 16:43:50 GMT -5
I would do Domi and our first for Ehlers or Laine. Providing they sign a 7 year deal.
BUT...
I far more preffer he makes a 10-11 million offer to Dubois and give up the 4 first rounders.
As much as i hate to buy into too much optimism, IF Kk, Suzuki and Dubois develop into 1C, we got the strongest center core since the 70s super teams. We WILL be contenders with that core.
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Post by jkr on Sept 24, 2020 17:16:04 GMT -5
The kind of 'going for it' that I see as very misguided would entail moves along the lines of: Domi for Saad; a second rounder for Killorn or Tyler Johnson; Josh Brook and 2021 first round pick for Palmieri; Kulak for Hornqvist. In other words, spending assets and/or significant cap space on guys who either won't be around in three or four years or will likely have fallen off dramatically. You can breathe a little easier. The Pens trade Hornqvist to Florida. Hornqvist & Matheson both have a lot of contract left, especially Matheson. www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/penguins-trade-hornqvist-panthers-matheson-sceviour/
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Post by seventeen on Sept 24, 2020 17:23:18 GMT -5
I would do Domi and our first for Ehlers or Laine. Providing they sign a 7 year deal. BUT... I far more preffer he makes a 10-11 million offer to Dubois and give up the 4 first rounders. As much as i hate to buy into too much optimism, IF Kk, Suzuki and Dubois develop into 1C, we got the strongest center core since the 70s super teams. We WILL be contenders with that core. Chevaldayoff: "Bye Marc"
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Post by Anardil1 on Sept 24, 2020 18:12:20 GMT -5
We need to add. We got to stop losing Radulovs to add Drouins. I’m not comparing the players here, simply we need to add to our top 6, not lose one to add one People say we only have two of the three pillars to build a roster. Well I agree, but I don’t think one of those pillars is trading, not unless we trade Carey Price. This off season, it’s essential to add through free agency. Which pillars are those, Skilly? Mine are strength up the centre (starting to happen), at least one elite defenseman and a scorer, regardless of position, but often a winger. I do not include goaltending since you hardly ever need an elite goaltender (though a hot, average one often wins the Cup). By that definition, we have none of the above, but are closing in on strength up the centre. The three pillars are: 1- Draft 2- Trades 3- Free Agency.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 24, 2020 18:15:14 GMT -5
especially if the good drafting continues. Saying it over and over don’t make it true ... but it sure is funny
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Post by seventeen on Sept 25, 2020 0:37:45 GMT -5
especially if the good drafting continues. Saying it over and over don’t make it true ... but it sure is funny Tsk, tsk. Unbeliever. I'm referring to the last 3 drafts which look much better than past ones, mostly because they've actually had a lot of picks. Naturally we won't know for sure how they are until 4 or 5 years from now, but at least a lot of the kids aren't looking like busts.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 25, 2020 0:51:46 GMT -5
My view is MB should go for it this season. If it doesn't work, or even if it does, you blow it up at the end. Let most our our FAs walk at the end, or trade them if the Cup is a long shot come trade deadline. Fact is Carey, Weber, Petry, Gally, and Tatar are not going to be helpful when Suze and KK hit their prime. So my view is this year should be one last shot for Carey and Shea. We've got the young talent and the veterans. and it would seem MB's solidified our goal and D for next year. It's that middle group where we're lacking, particularly upon front. I'd take a run at Laine. Laine is younger but already a stud so I would certainly consider taking on the last year of his contract as he's exactly what we need up front right now. We may also be able to keep him once we let the other FAs walk and he'd be an upgrade on all the forward FAs. Big question is what would we have to give up for a guy who will be a FA in a year. But Domi, a prospect and a 2nd should do it. But my real preference would be Ehlers as he would be both an immediate solution and give us a chance next year. And he would also be a long term solution as he's signed through to 2025, right through his prime. To have him with KK and Suze up front for the next 5 years, all in their 20s, would be powerful up front and maybe the strongest we've been in decades. Bottom line: MB needs to decide, does he go for it in Carey and Shea's window or does he start the rebuild. I think with Laine or Ehlers, he can do both. That is one option, but be careful of the consequences. Firstly, either Ehlers or Laine is going to cost so are you getting ahead or going sideways? Secondly if you keep your UFA's for that push this year, there is a good likelihood that they walk for nothing next 'summer' and you will have lost assets that could have made you better 3 years from now. I just don't see this team having enough pieces to add to, to be a realistic contender. Three years from now, when two or 3 (hopefully more) of Struble, Norlinder, Ylonen, Xaufield, Harris, Poehling and Primeau are on the team and contributing, the odds look better to me. I can see that team being better than this team, especially if the good drafting continues. My view is based on trying to capitalize on Carey and Shea's window before they are no longer able to assist and another fruitless era comes to an end. I appreciate your concern that we don't want to jeopardize our future to push for a hopeless dream of Carey and Shea hoisting the Cup. But my suggestion, particularly with respect to Ehlers, does not jeopardize our future. We get a stud for 4 or 5 years. As for what we have to give up, that's the rub. But I think we can give up Domi, some draft choices and a prospect, Juulsen or Fleury. And, I don't see keeping the UFAs for this year as a risk of losing assets for nothing as we will know by the trade deadline if we have a legitimate chance. If we haven't become a legit contender then trade them. Fact is I don't see MB trading any of these guys now so if he's going to hang onto them into next season, he might as well get an offensive stud to see how they do. Lastly, I don't see any of these UFA getting a big return even now, as players with one year left don't usually bring a big return, and not likely much more then they would bring at the trade deadline.
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Post by folatre on Sept 25, 2020 8:58:40 GMT -5
It is a tough call. Montreal does not have the talent to stake out the mantle of contender through 40, 50, or 80 games. So in all likelihood if everything goes right (minimal injuries, Price having a good year, etc.), the Habs will be sitting right there around the playoff bubble. Thus Bergevin will be in the unenvious position of not really seeing a team that morphed into a serious contender yet subtracting a Petry or a Danault at the deadline would quite possibly cause the team to drop out of the race.
Gainey bet on his players in the spring of 2009 and lost. Montreal neither made a run nor recouped assets for the pending UFAs.
If you are flying by the seat of your pants as events unfold, there is going to be a disproportionate temptation to say well anything can happen so we can't pull the plug 50 games in when we are on the bubble. I would feel more secure watching a decision maker who makes strategic determinations (who stays who goes) well in advance.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 25, 2020 12:31:32 GMT -5
My view is based on trying to capitalize on Carey and Shea's window before they are no longer able to assist and another fruitless era comes to an end. I appreciate your concern that we don't want to jeopardize our future to push for a hopeless dream of Carey and Shea hoisting the Cup. But my suggestion, particularly with respect to Ehlers, does not jeopardize our future. We get a stud for 4 or 5 years. As for what we have to give up, that's the rub. But I think we can give up Domi, some draft choices and a prospect, Juulsen or Fleury. Fair enough. My thought has been that once the Subban trade was done we should have been in full re-build mode. Assuming Weber was the stud defenseman a SC contender needs (not my opinion, but surely Bergevin's), he had 3 to 4 years to fit the window because of Shea's age, but there was nothing in the pipeline. So the pipeline had to be filled and the team quality had to improve from a very low starting point. Wasn't going to happen. There was really only 1 option and Bergie turned it down. Now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Two contracts you can't move, but they are putting pressure on the team CAP because 5 other guys contracts are expiring and they're all UFA's. Nice management. Mediocrity at its best . But to expand on your thought...if Berg decided that the window was not now but 3 years from now, there are moves he can make to get us there. Weber, traded. Petry, traded, Byron and Tatar traded. In return you get assets that can become good, young dmen. Maybe even trade Price this fall. Allen is good enough to be an adequate starter and you likely play Primeau at backup becuase the AHL is uncertain at this point. Next year, Primeau takes over starting duties and you look for a veteran backup. Defense has Romanov Chiarot, Edmundson, Mete, Juulsen, Brook, Fleury. Very weak, of course, but maybe you get one young quality dman back from the trades above and the D is just below average. Soon, Norlinder, Struble, Harris etc. join in. Who knows?, maybe Juulsen, Brook and Fleury take the next step. You suffer for a couple of years and then the kids come together, much like Guerrero, Bichette, Gurriel, Biggio and Kirk are doing with the Blue Jays. It's that suffering for 2 years that Molson can't stomach. Strange, because we've been suffering for 5 years now and we're not much further ahead. What could have been. I keep thinking of the guy who won't get stitches to heal a cut because it hurts too much to pull the bandage off.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 25, 2020 13:28:16 GMT -5
Petry signed for four year extension at $6.25M aav. He likely is not going anywhere now.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Sept 25, 2020 14:53:33 GMT -5
That seems like a good contract.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 25, 2020 15:43:44 GMT -5
It's fair for a strong 2nd pair dman who can occasionally spell on the first pair. If he's the regular first pair guy, then it's either a deal for the team or an improvement is needed. Production will determine that.
Ps. That's a comment, not on Petry, but on any defenseman paid that kind of money in this market.
A stat of note about Petry (with the caveat that +/- is not the most meaningful statistic and that most of his career he has played on not very good teams). He has played 9 full NHL seasons. He was plus in two of those seasons, the shortened 48 game 2012/13 season when he was +1 and the year the Habs most recently made the playoffs, 2016/17 when he was +3. The remaining 7 seasons, he has averaged -15.4. With just the Habs, excluding the plus year of 2016/17, he has averaged -11.5 per 82 games.
Just sayin'.
If we used overall averages, his +/- average would be better, but man, 2 plus years out of 9. Ouch. Poor guy has played on a lot of bad teams.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 26, 2020 13:21:14 GMT -5
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 26, 2020 13:57:53 GMT -5
So of the key UFAs Petry is now signed, and we still need to address Gally, Danny and Tatar. One if not 2 of these is not going to be around come deadline. Tatar is the weakest of all of them so don't see him sticking unless he wants to take a cut. I love Gally but the rub is whether his physical play will take a toll soon. Danny is a solid 3C but his wish to play top 2 is a deadend.
So who will MB sign. Are we heading towards a 'first come first served" process or is that only for Russian players. I guess the wild card in this is what can Mb get in a trade for any of them. I imagine they'll be some suitors for Gally and Danny. My preference would be to keep Gally. He's a heart and sole guy who provides intensity and offence which we need. Danny is good defensively but I think replaceable with Evans, Poehling, or some one like Thomson if we need to go outside. Tatar is Patches-lite - scores sufficient goals each year but doesn't show up for the big games.
Petry's signing has not effected our cap space for next year so MB could still go after a top end forward FA or trade. Perhaps send Tatar and or Domi and or some prospects for Ehlers. That would be a salary dump giving us a little more money for FA - Hall.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2020 14:20:45 GMT -5
I didn't think it was a serious proposition. The clunker in a possible deal is that Laine would cost big time and Bergevin won't pay the price. It's a complete non starter of a conversation unless MB is willing to include one of Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Romanov. End of discussion from both GM's.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 26, 2020 14:50:38 GMT -5
And yet Pat Hickey reports that Montreal offered Domi, Fleury and their 2020 first rounder for Laine EDIT: actually, that’s what Hickey says MTL should offer, not what they have . Reading the article sometimes helps
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2020 15:11:32 GMT -5
So of the key UFAs Petry is now signed, and we still need to address Gally, Danny and Tatar. One if not 2 of these is not going to be around come deadline. Tatar is the weakest of all of them so don't see him sticking unless he wants to take a cut. I love Gally but the rub is whether his physical play will take a toll soon. Danny is a solid 3C but his wish to play top 2 is a deadend. So who will MB sign. Are we heading towards a 'first come first served" process or is that only for Russian players. I guess the wild card in this is what can Mb get in a trade for any of them. I imagine they'll be some suitors for Gally and Danny. My preference would be to keep Gally. He's a heart and sole guy who provides intensity and offence which we need. Danny is good defensively but I think replaceable with Evans, Poehling, or some one like Thomson if we need to go outside. Tatar is Patches-lite - scores sufficient goals each year but doesn't show up for the big games. Petry's signing has not effected our cap space for next year so MB could still go after a top end forward FA or trade. Perhaps send Tatar and or Domi and or some prospects for Ehlers. That would be a salary dump giving us a little more money for FA - Hall. If we take a small step back and look at the trending for the team, I feel Suzuki and KK should continue their playoff standard of play. Romanov may also improve the defense. Ok, what else can push the team forward? Basically, all I can imagine is Bergevin trading some prospects for a 'help you now' guy. So, if you ignore the 3 guys above, who are untouchable, which prospects are going to get you someone who can make a difference? None, IMO. No one is going to give up a quality player for 'potential'. Is Edmundson better than Kulak? Better than Scandella? Hard to say. Let's say the 3rd pair is slightly better. Can Drouin score more? Maybe. Will Domi produce more? Maybe. Byron staying healthy would help. Allen should help in the games Price doesn't play. It's also likely that the 5 UFA's have a good year, because it's their UFA year.
So, excluding MB pulling a rabbit out of a hat, I expect a points boost from the above...say 12 points.
What's on the downside? Well, Price had a pretty good year, so he has to duplicate that and stay healthy. Weber is a question mark and before anyone says he was awesome in the 'playoffs', he was actually awesome in the first round vs Pittsburgh. He picked up 5 points in 10 games between the 2 series, which is ok. Against Philly, he had 1 goal and no assists in 6 games and in the crucial elimination game, he was -3. Deja vu all over again. Final game for Nashville in that playoff series a few years ago...on for 5 or 6 goals against. Late in the season, his offense dries up and his overall play regresses. As the intensity ramped up in these faux playoffs, so did his production. I don't think we can count in him to be a first pair defenseman, which isn't horrible, because Petry is the defacto top dog anyway, but I wouldn't expect him to be any better than last year and likely worse. Father Time.
I have a large question mark around Ben Chiarot. He had a much better than expected year, after bouncing around between the 3rd and 2nd pairs in Winnipeg. But, he did not have the greatest competition in Winnipeg. Most of the D horses on that team played the Right side...Buff, Trouba and Myers. So, what is he? I also have concerns that so many of Berg's deals look really good at first and then tail off. If Chiarot follows that trend, it will cost the team a couple of points.
So, how much better will next year's team be? It was a .500 team, so start with 82 points...Add the 12 points above and you have a team fighting for a playoff spot....assuming no key injuries. Isn't that what we expected this year?
So far, it looks like more tinkering to me. Bergevin is being lauded for 'having a great summer'. Yep, and you and I would have done those moves as well (I probably wouldn't have done the Edmundson deal, to save the CAP space for something bigger. We've been complaining about a proper back up goalie for what, 2 or 3 years? Extending Petry was one of those "duh, why is this news?" moves. If you're not going to trade him, of course you extend him. Signing Edumdson? An ok move, if pricey. Have any of these moves made you jump up off your chair and shout, 'Yes!'. Course not, because they aren't impact moves. They maintain a sideways trend. MB always does the easy stuff. Trading for an impact defenseman or scoring winger (Laine or Ehlers) would make me sit up, but those cost and would cost him some of the improvement points above. He has simply painted himself into a corner because he refused to make the big changes the team needed 2 years ago. Yes, we would have suffered (like we haven't anyway), but we'd have more ammo in our gun belts and better prospects coming up.
I feel frustrated because MB is doing little and getting plaudits for it. Yippee, more of the same.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 26, 2020 15:51:05 GMT -5
I feel your pain 17. Which is why I really believe Mb will make a big move for a top forward. Otherwise, as you say , we've improved marginally at best. And how long can MB expect to stick around with this struggling to make the playoffs every year and Carey and Weber getting older year and still sucking up huge cap. MB has to know he can't keep treading water with these 'tinkering' moves.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2020 17:13:06 GMT -5
I feel your pain 17. Which is why I really believe Mb will make a big move for a top forward. Otherwise, as you say , we've improved marginally at best. And how long can MB expect to stick around with this struggling to make the playoffs every year and Carey and Weber getting older year and still sucking up huge cap. MB has to know he can't keep treading water with these 'tinkering' moves. It's more than annoying. If Bergevin (as a job protection measure) is now being forced into an uncharacteristically bold move, the timing is wrong and will hurt the future of the team. If if, if. Two years ago makes so much more sense. His assets had more value and the supporting cast was on its way or young. What might he actually do? Let's put 17 in the GM's chair. Because of his charm and confidence, a UFA target is the plan. Signing Taylor Hall is one option. It doesn't cost anything but CAP. Regardless of the concerns about Hall, he is an offensive driver and a LW, which is the strong spot on the team, allowing the trade of another player from that spot. The other difference making option is signing Pietrangelo. That pushes Weber down to the 3rd pairing and how do you like them apples? That would be a 'stand up and take notice' move. Doing both would make the Habs a legitimate contender IMO. So....how do you convince two UFA's to pick Montreal? Besides the aforementioned charm and the ability to spin a great yarn, adding AP and Hall to the team makes them immediate contenders and that's what a UFA wants most of all. The CAP becomes a problem, but you can fix that by a) trading Weber for almost nothing except CAP space b) trading a combination of Danault, Drouin, Tatar and/or Byron.
The team now looks like this:
Hall - KK or NS - Gallagher Domi - KK or NS - Lehkonen Guy - Danault - Armia Guy - Evans - Guy Pietrangelo - Chiarot Petry - Romanov Edmundson - (one of Fleury or Juulsen or Mete) Pietrangelo is elite so no need to worry about who his partner is. It's practically interchangeable, including using Mete on the first pairing. I think Romanov is already better than Chiarot or Edmundson skill wise. He'll pick up the experience with ice time. You should get something back from the trades involving the four forwards mentioned. Bottom 6 players are not hard to get. Having Danault and Evans on the 3rd and 4th lines makes it less of an issue filling the remaining spots. A guy like Ylonen or Caufield might just insinuate themselves. I like the team above a lot better than what we have now. Better scoring (both from the forwards and defense) because elite players raise everyone's game. You now have Hall and Pietrangelo who actually scare other teams and force them to game plan against those guys. I'm not really a fan of this plan because Hall will be 29 soon and AP is not far off 31. You are definitely in 'win now' mode. The bright part is that it hasn't cost you anything except money and the future prospects for the team haven't changed at all. You've still got Norlinder, Caufield, Struble, Primeau, etc coming. It might actually work if you can trade AP or Hall down the road. The fact all it costs is money, is exactly why Molson won't do it. Sorry guys.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 26, 2020 22:49:17 GMT -5
I feel your pain 17. Which is why I really believe Mb will make a big move for a top forward. Otherwise, as you say , we've improved marginally at best. And how long can MB expect to stick around with this struggling to make the playoffs every year and Carey and Weber getting older year and still sucking up huge cap. MB has to know he can't keep treading water with these 'tinkering' moves. Ha, watch MB sign Bobby Ryan...
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2020 23:28:37 GMT -5
He looked pretty good against us, late last season, no? Ryan is one of those guys who have been badly hurt by the league's evolution to speed. He just doesn't have the wheels. Too bad, because I like a lot of other things about him, but man...slow or what.
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