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Post by CentreHice on Feb 8, 2021 12:50:21 GMT -5
I get wanting to get the call right... but if they were going to do that, get the call right, then they should have rescinded the goal and played the last 1:15 of the second period over again. There are lots of precedents for playing the final minute or two of a period after an intermission. But instead, as is the NHL's way, they half-way it. They get the no-penalty part of it right, but leave the goal and time parts wrong. Again, in a one goal game. Agree with cancelling the goal. But... 1. What if the Jackets (or any team in that situation) score a shortie in the penalty time before the end of the 2nd period? Does that goal get cancelled, too? 2. What if such a goal is scored with lots of time left in a period--say the 5:00 mark. The mistake is found during the intermission. The game may have changed considerably in the following 15:00. Is everything erased back to 5:00? 3. What if a crucial missed-offside goal is found after a game? There must be a limit on correcting such a error...but imagine if it was a Game 7? |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 8, 2021 13:26:52 GMT -5
Agree with cancelling the goal. But... 1. What if the Jackets (or any team in that situation) score a shortie in the penalty time before the end of the 2nd period? Does that goal get cancelled, too? 2. What if such a goal is scored with lots of time left in a period--say the 5:00 mark. The mistake is found during the intermission. The game may have changed considerably in the following 15:00. Is everything erased back to 5:00? 3. What if a crucial missed-offside goal is found after a game? There must be a limit on correcting such a error...but imagine if it was a Game 7? Definitely a Pandora's box. But once they decided to rescind the penalty that's the box they opened. You can't quasi fix it, which is what they tried to do. If you're going to rescind the penalty, then rescind all of it. But as you point out, that's just a nightmare of future possibilities. What they should have done was just ignore the replay. Ooops, we made a mistake. It happens. Are you telling me this is the first time in the history of the NHL a referee has gone into the dressing room during an intermission and found out that he had made a mistake on a penalty call? Or an offside? Or a goal? Either by watching the replay himself, or by having somebody come up to him and say "yep, you blew it?" You make a mistake, you own up to it, you hope there aren't too many repercussions from your mistake. In this case all they had to do was say "we didn't see that replay at first, and by the time we did it was too late." Not only is it the truth, but it actually absolves you of blame, because now everybody is asking why you didn't get all the replays instead of asking what kind of weird decision did you just make. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 8, 2021 13:49:34 GMT -5
Ha! So I just read the NHL's explanations of what happened... what a <insert bad words here>.
So it seems they were training a new video guy. The guy who is supposed to provide the referees with the video clips for them to watch. Also, it turns out that the referees don't necessarily get the final say on theses things, as Toronto also reviews the clips at the same time. As the linesmen were reviewing the offside videos - which did NOT include the clips that clearly show Vincent Trochek being offside - the new video trainee says into the mike, twice, "that's a good goal." The linesman, looking at the videos that do not show any offsides, hear a voice from Toronto saying "that's a good goal" - twice - so they shrug their shoulders and call it a good goal.
Once that happens Toronto starts freaking out, because they got videos that show that it's not a good goal. So they're desperately trying to get the linesman back to the video review booth. Normally (oh man, this is so current times) they simply call the guy who is normally in contact with Toronto, the guy who wears the headset in other words (the timekeeper?), he hits the siren button, and everybody stops. We've all heard that right? The siren going off at a weird moment and the refs skate over to the box to find out what is going on? Well, Toronto is trying to contact that guy to pull the linesman back and tell them it's not a goal. BUT... <shakes head>... the headset guy is too busy cleaning the headsets because they were worn by the linesman and COVID don't you know. So he's not wearing them.
So Toronto isn't able to stop the play, and from there it's just sure panic. Our good friend Colin Campbell (hey! he's not dead!) decides that rescinding the penalty is the right call, even though there is no precedence for doing this, and decides against reverting the goal, because there is no precedence for doing that. Just a nightmare of a situation.
Imagine if the Blue Jackets miss the playoffs by one point?
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Post by Skilly on Feb 8, 2021 16:25:30 GMT -5
I guess (?) this is proof that not only Montreal gets screwed by the league? scoutingtherefs.com/2021/02/30795/challenge-controversy-as-hurricanes-goal-stands-later-ruled-offside-by-nhl/Wild one in Columbus, where the Hurricanes scored late in the 2nd period, a game that they would ultimately go on to win by one goal. Because of course it had to be by one goal. Columbus challenged the play, saying it was offside, but were denied. Good goal, penalty to Columbus for the remaining 1:15 in the 2nd period, and for 45 seconds to start the 3rd period. During the intermission - and 1:15 seconds into the Blue Jacket's penalty - they review the goal again. Seems for reasons that have not yet been explained, the linesman did not get all replay views available to them. One of them clearly shows Carolina being offside. So they got it wrong. Sucks, but I guess it happens? (though of course it's not supposed to happen with replay but whatever). So the league decides to cancel the remaining 45 seconds of the powerplay, but not cancel the goal. They make this decision in the middle of the game. So the goal that shouldn't have counted, counted, and the Blue Jackets played 1:15 short-handed, when they didn't have to. And they lost by one goal. I get wanting to get the call right... but if they were going to do that, get the call right, then they should have rescinded the goal and played the last 1:15 of the second period over again. There are lots of precedents for playing the final minute or two of a period after an intermission. But instead, as is the NHL's way, they half-way it. They get the no-penalty part of it right, but leave the goal and time parts wrong. Again, in a one goal game. That should have Protested Game written all over it They handcuffed the Blue Jackets chances of tying the game, by 1:15 ... plus the double whammy of the goal being counted. I guess we should be happy that Carolina didn't score on the PP before the intermission. If they had, we would not have heard about the error at all I fear |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 8, 2021 16:46:40 GMT -5
I'm not so sure it a Pandora's Box being opened if they rescinded the goal ... they:d count their lucky stars it wasn't at the 5:00 min mark (as CH mentioned), but Toronto discovered the error immediately. You just stop play at the next stoppage and explain to all , that you intended to stop play back during the review but couldn't. Similar to a ref intending to blow his whistle but couldn't ...it's pretty much in the rule book that an official can intend to stop play.
Also, this was a coach's challenge. If a goal is counted that shouldn't have, and it isn't challenged. Well the NHL rules don't protect that. But when it's challenged, that's what a challenge is for ...to get it right, unless not enough video evidence. The League screwed up. Their Covid Protocols were not sufficient, to account for that delay. I don't think you'll see many challenged goals where the league admits fault like this ... so yes, I'd have played the 1:15 over. And if Carolina protested, the arguement would be "in a 56 game schedule, where all games are 4 point games, getting it right was more important"
I'd be protesting the game ... this was Keystone Cops officiating all around.
And another reason why I am advocating for ALL goals to be reviewed. It would not take that long with today's technology .... and it saves a coach from wasting a challenge.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 8, 2021 16:59:08 GMT -5
Ha! So I just read the NHL's explanations of what happened... what a <insert bad words here>. So it seems they were training a new video guy. The guy who is supposed to provide the referees with the video clips for them to watch. Also, it turns out that the referees don't necessarily get the final say on theses things, as Toronto also reviews the clips at the same time. As the linesmen were reviewing the offside videos - which did NOT include the clips that clearly show Vincent Trochek being offside - the new video trainee says into the mike, twice, "that's a good goal." The linesman, looking at the videos that do not show any offsides, hear a voice from Toronto saying "that's a good goal" - twice - so they shrug their shoulders and call it a good goal. Once that happens Toronto starts freaking out, because they got videos that show that it's not a good goal. So they're desperately trying to get the linesman back to the video review booth. Normally (oh man, this is so current times) they simply call the guy who is normally in contact with Toronto, the guy who wears the headset in other words (the timekeeper?), he hits the siren button, and everybody stops. We've all heard that right? The siren going off at a weird moment and the refs skate over to the box to find out what is going on? Well, Toronto is trying to contact that guy to pull the linesman back and tell them it's not a goal. BUT... <shakes head>... the headset guy is too busy cleaning the headsets because they were worn by the linesman and COVID don't you know. So he's not wearing them. So Toronto isn't able to stop the play, and from there it's just sure panic. Our good friend Colin Campbell (hey! he's not dead!) decides that rescinding the penalty is the right call, even though there is no precedence for doing this, and decides against reverting the goal, because there is no precedence for doing that. Just a nightmare of a situation. Imagine if the Blue Jackets miss the playoffs by one point? It took the timekeeper more than 1:15 (of playing time) to clean the headphones? Can't be too thorough these days... Why are they sharing headphones during COVID in the first place? Simple fix...one booth dude is connected to Toronto at all times. Big budget NHL and broadcasters...let's have a set of headphones for each ref. $200 per arena. Tops. COVID aside, Campbell botched. While such plays may be very rare...they can occur. Hopefully, as you say, it doesn't affect the Jackets' playoff chances. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 8, 2021 17:02:22 GMT -5
I guess (?) this is proof that not only Montreal gets screwed by the league? scoutingtherefs.com/2021/02/30795/challenge-controversy-as-hurricanes-goal-stands-later-ruled-offside-by-nhl/Wild one in Columbus, where the Hurricanes scored late in the 2nd period, a game that they would ultimately go on to win by one goal. Because of course it had to be by one goal. Columbus challenged the play, saying it was offside, but were denied. Good goal, penalty to Columbus for the remaining 1:15 in the 2nd period, and for 45 seconds to start the 3rd period. During the intermission - and 1:15 seconds into the Blue Jacket's penalty - they review the goal again. Seems for reasons that have not yet been explained, the linesman did not get all replay views available to them. One of them clearly shows Carolina being offside. So they got it wrong. Sucks, but I guess it happens? (though of course it's not supposed to happen with replay but whatever). So the league decides to cancel the remaining 45 seconds of the powerplay, but not cancel the goal. They make this decision in the middle of the game. So the goal that shouldn't have counted, counted, and the Blue Jackets played 1:15 short-handed, when they didn't have to. And they lost by one goal. I get wanting to get the call right... but if they were going to do that, get the call right, then they should have rescinded the goal and played the last 1:15 of the second period over again. There are lots of precedents for playing the final minute or two of a period after an intermission. But instead, as is the NHL's way, they half-way it. They get the no-penalty part of it right, but leave the goal and time parts wrong. Again, in a one goal game. Yet another example of the lack of leadership at the NHL. The solution isn't complicated. No matter what point you're at after that, the call and goal is reversed, the clock is wound back and you go from there. It's your mistake, not that of the players, teams or refs. To hang your hat on the fact there was no precedent for that is complete abdication of your responsibilities. How does Colin Campbell think precedents get set? What a maroon. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 9, 2021 6:56:54 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Feb 9, 2021 6:59:54 GMT -5
Vancouver gets swept by Toronto, losing all 3 games by an aggregate score of 15-5.
In a short season, how soon will it be before they fire Green?
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Post by frozone on Feb 9, 2021 9:08:46 GMT -5
Definitely worth a look...
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 9, 2021 16:33:12 GMT -5
Definitely worth a look... jeebus, what a slick move... he looks like the prize in the PLD trade |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 10, 2021 14:55:23 GMT -5
... starting to follow the Canucks a bit more this year ...
... they were my 2nd-favourite team growing up ...
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 10, 2021 18:05:08 GMT -5
... starting to follow the Canucks a bit more this year ...
... they were my 2nd-favourite team growing up ...
Myers on your 2nd pairing is very scary |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 11, 2021 13:59:37 GMT -5
Yikes, you have to wonder are what point this is too much for the guy. I expect he is past that point, but I am no expert by any means.
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Post by folatre on Feb 12, 2021 20:27:43 GMT -5
Bruins-Rangers turning nasty. Trouba and McAvoy threw down, McAvoy was lucky he emerged mostly unscathed. Then Lemieux and Frederic dropped them right off the faceoff, and Claude's son beat the crap out of the Bruin (whoever he is, honestly this year I am not watching much outside of the Canadian division). Clifton boarded someone. Marchand speared someone (jeje, what else would he do maybe aside from kissing).
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 12, 2021 21:10:41 GMT -5
Bruins-Rangers turning nasty. Trouba and McAvoy threw down, McAvoy was lucky he emerged mostly unscathed. Then Lemieux and Frederic dropped them right off the faceoff, and Claude's son beat the crap out of the Bruin (whoever he is, honestly this year I am not watching much outside of the Canadian division). Clifton boarded someone. Marchand speared someone (jeje, what else would he do maybe aside from kissing). I thought Marchand was a licker? |
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Post by folatre on Feb 12, 2021 21:46:40 GMT -5
Jeje, I stand corrected.
Boston held on for the 1-0 win. Halak is a 1b gem of a goalie in recent seasons. The Bruins are getting mileage out of some d-men stepping forward into bigger roles now with Chara gone.
New York has talent on the wings and half the d-corps is solid, but they have holes and it seems likely no playoffs this season for the Rangers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 12, 2021 23:35:09 GMT -5
Saw the highlights, old school slugfest and good goaltending.
I still cannot believe how well Boston is doing. Glad to not see them these days.
Barf lol.
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Post by jkr on Feb 13, 2021 7:24:40 GMT -5
Jeje, I stand corrected. Boston held on for the 1-0 win. Halak is a 1b gem of a goalie in recent seasons. The Bruins are getting mileage out of some d-men stepping forward into bigger roles now with Chara gone. New York has talent on the wings and half the d-corps is solid, but they have holes and it seems likely no playoffs this season for the Rangers. What's going on with the Rangers top picks? Lafreniere has one point in 13 games & Kakko has 2 goals. I know it's early on but it doesn't look like they are having much of an impact. I also notice that the Coyotes, along with Florida and Dallas, are allowing some fans into games. |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 13, 2021 7:35:29 GMT -5
Jeje, I stand corrected. Boston held on for the 1-0 win. Halak is a 1b gem of a goalie in recent seasons. The Bruins are getting mileage out of some d-men stepping forward into bigger roles now with Chara gone. New York has talent on the wings and half the d-corps is solid, but they have holes and it seems likely no playoffs this season for the Rangers. What's going on with the Rangers top picks? Lafreniere has one point in 13 games & Kakko has 2 goals. I know it's early on but it doesn't look like they are having much of an impact. I also notice that the Coyotes, along with Florida and Dallas, are allowing some fans into games. Those fans are wearing extra tight panties and jock straps so they are safe from Covid. I'm not sure how one can explain to them that they can still be carriers even though they show no symptoms. Besides, who cares about grandma when there is hockey to be seen, up close and catchy. As for Laffy, I put a body condom on his voodoo doll. He's done until he's traded to us for Mete and two pucks. Besides, given their refusal to release Laffy to play for the world juniors, the Rags deserve to have their crown jewel turn into a pumpkin. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 13, 2021 10:20:34 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 13, 2021 17:30:47 GMT -5
Sens beat the Jets 2-1, score tie breaker with 10 seconds left in the 3rd... Hoeberg played very well... we might end up being in last place...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 15, 2021 15:38:27 GMT -5
... too much broomball, I guess ...
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Post by franko on Feb 15, 2021 21:47:19 GMT -5
THAT looked good on the Leafs tonight. up 5-1, lose 6-5 in OT
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 15, 2021 21:55:45 GMT -5
THAT looked good on the Leafs tonight. up 5-1, lose 6-5 in OT Yep I'm lovin it... too bad Sens couldnt do it during regulation |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 15, 2021 22:01:02 GMT -5
Watching pimp stache answer questions.. but some reporters lob softies... 'What did you think of Thornton's play? really, you sucked in the 3rd and gave up 2 shorties and that's the question you ask?
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Post by folatre on Feb 15, 2021 22:14:14 GMT -5
Loved the Leafs game. Man, that was epic.
My son and I are watching Oilers-Jets (school is already called off for tomorrow with the **it load of snow falling) and I am literally baffled how the Habs got shut out by Mike frickin Smith. He is so brutal. Two of the goals the Jets scored would make a beer leaguer blush.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 15, 2021 22:52:08 GMT -5
Too bad it was not in regulation, but this was classic. Is that a losing streak in the Big Smoke I smell? I guess these three games are not going to be as easy as the Leafs thought. The Sens are starting to throw the division some more curveballs with some more regularity.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 16, 2021 2:41:09 GMT -5
I wonder what is going on in Nashville. With Duchene underachieving makes 3 offensive centers they have killed. Duchene, Johnasen, Turris. They all played well at one time now are a mess.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 16, 2021 9:38:14 GMT -5
THAT looked good on the Leafs tonight. up 5-1, lose 6-5 in OT Reminded me of this Leafs' loss to St. Louis back in 2000. Up 5-0 entering the third...lost 6-5 in OT. MacInnis and Pronger on the points. While games like these aren't "the rule"...I like watching "the exceptions".  |
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