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Post by habmeister on Apr 14, 2007 16:20:25 GMT -5
i would prefer to look at ISS or another ranking system, if they have michael repik that highly rated there is something wrong, i also expect that turris will go top 10, possibly top 5, whereas they have him rated 9th among forwards. ISS doesn't have repik going in the first round, and neither do i after the stagnant season he's had here in vancouver, other prospects are flying by... hockeysfuture.com/articles/9559
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Post by Anardil1 on Apr 14, 2007 16:45:01 GMT -5
Personally, if the Habs were to go with a d-man, Keaton Ellerby would be my choice. Now, I must admit that I haven't seen either play more than once or twice. I'd go with Ellerby simply he's a big mobile (very good skater apparently), defensive rock. Blum scares me a bit because he's small. If the Habs d-corps were on the whole bigger and meaner, then by all means grab Blum. For now, until O'Byrne shows some NHL readiness, I believe the team needs to improve it's size. I was going on the assumption that Ellerby would be gone before we draft. I believe that Ellerby will be going around where the Habs will draft. To be totally honest Ellerby is my second favourite prospect ( considering d-men only. ) Ideally, I would really love if the Habs picked Alzner, but he will absolutely be long gone by the time we pick. Anyways, now with the Habs season over, I'll be devoting more time and attention to the draft. I will be purchasing the McKeen's draft guide this year, along with my yearly THN Draft Issue. There isn't any one prospect that gets me excited this year. There are 2 prospects that I want the team to avoid in the 1st round. Esposito and Gillies. Prospects that seem to take a downturn in their development during their draft years is a major red flag IMHO.
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Post by habmeister on Apr 14, 2007 20:32:24 GMT -5
i saw every team in the whl play this season and ellerby was the best d-man i've seen this season. i didn't notice alzner when he played here, only saw him once, wasn't outstanding was too focused on what ryan white that visit.
anyway i'd be happy with ellerby, or with blum only because i've seen him play so much and will continue to next season.
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Post by Anardil1 on Apr 15, 2007 13:41:55 GMT -5
i saw every team in the whl play this season and ellerby was the best d-man i've seen this season. i didn't notice alzner when he played here, only saw him once, wasn't outstanding was too focused on what ryan white that visit. anyway i'd be happy with ellerby, or with blum only because i've seen him play so much and will continue to next season. I'm also interested in another Hitman D-man Alex Plante. Like all other juniors (except for the WJC tournament) I've seen him only 2-3 times. Is he worthy of our second 1st rounder? His stats are interesting. And if the Habs Western scouts saw many Calgary games to see Ryan White's progress, they should have a good read on Plante's potential. What's your opinion?
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Post by habmeister on Apr 15, 2007 17:32:53 GMT -5
i saw every team in the whl play this season and ellerby was the best d-man i've seen this season. i didn't notice alzner when he played here, only saw him once, wasn't outstanding was too focused on what ryan white that visit. anyway i'd be happy with ellerby, or with blum only because i've seen him play so much and will continue to next season. I'm also interested in another Hitman D-man Alex Plante. Like all other juniors (except for the WJC tournament) I've seen him only 2-3 times. Is he worthy of our second 1st rounder? His stats are interesting. And if the Habs Western scouts saw many Calgary games to see Ryan White's progress, they should have a good read on Plante's potential. What's your opinion? you know what, i only saw calgary play here once, and i really focused on everything white was doing. i'll ask a friend of mine that is a player agent that watches a lot of whl and see what he thinks. i like spencer machacek in 2nd round myself.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 25, 2007 13:28:23 GMT -5
Personally I think the organization can't let the opportunity to draft Esposito slip through their finger (especially in a weak draft). A year ago this player was a sure shot top 5 and now he may have slipped just enough for the HABS to have a realistic chance to grab him. HABS should really trade up a couple of notches to be in a good spot to nab this guy. He's an home grown spectacular offensive player and playmaker and what he misses in terms of all around game CAN be taught to him.
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Post by franko on Apr 25, 2007 14:25:33 GMT -5
The way Espo is slipping in the rankings we may be able to pass him over straight-up without wondering if he will still be able to.
Yes, he is a player . . . but is he a "Lindros" or is he a "Begin" [explanation: a weiner whiner or a goer]
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Post by habmeister on Apr 25, 2007 14:53:52 GMT -5
he's dropping like a rock, and that usually means that he's not improving at the same rate as his counter-parts, unless its because of an injury i'd have to say that it's more likely his upside has come down a few notches. or in other words, bust potential. he didn't even make the canada jr. team did he? that was after being at camp last year as well. his progress has stalled. stay away! take ellerby from the kamloops blazers.
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Post by habmeister on Apr 25, 2007 15:03:04 GMT -5
and wouldn't you know it, story on tsn.ca says ellerby is now ranked #4 in north america, i should be a scout.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 25, 2007 16:04:14 GMT -5
he's dropping like a rock, and that usually means that he's not improving at the same rate as his counter-parts, ...he went from about 4th-5th to about 8th-10th... Let's not blow things out of proportion... I mean the guy still won the Mike Bossy award at the end of the year as best "hope" of the LHJMQ, an award previously won by guys like Crosby, Luongo, Lecavalier, Dumont, Vermette, etc... I can understand you prefer other prospects but to tag Esposito as a bust at this point is a bit.. well... comical.
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Post by habmeister on Apr 25, 2007 17:04:57 GMT -5
he's dropping like a rock, and that usually means that he's not improving at the same rate as his counter-parts, ...he went from about 4th-5th to about 8th-10th... Let's not blow things out of proportion... I mean the guy still won the Mike Bossy award at the end of the year as best "hope" of the LHJMQ, an award previously won by guys like Crosby, Luongo, Lecavalier, Dumont, Vermette, etc... I can understand you prefer other prospects but to tag Esposito as a bust at this point is a bit.. well... comical. bust potential, is not tagging as a bust. i don't like the way he skates, and i didn't like him last year live at the canada jr tryouts. to say my opinion is comical, is well ludiculous if he was ranked 20th and is now 10th then i'd be higher on him than going from 4th/5th to 9th/10th. i'm just not excited about another small speedy forward, i think we should draft for needs, i doubt he's around when we pick anyway.
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Post by franko on Apr 25, 2007 18:13:11 GMT -5
I'd pass on Espo. While I [honestly] don't know enough, comments made lead me to believe that he'll be anohter guy with promise that lets his ego get in his way.
Too bad Gagne won't be around for us, and that Logan Couture (OK, I'm an Ottawa homer) and Brandon Sutter won't be around in the second round.
Don't know anything about the 11-12 high school d-men.
Don't know why Lahey is rated higher than Alphonso.
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Post by montreal on Apr 25, 2007 20:02:50 GMT -5
Personally I think the organization can't let the opportunity to draft Esposito slip through their finger (especially in a weak draft). A year ago this player was a sure shot top 5 and now he may have slipped just enough for the HABS to have a realistic chance to grab him. HABS should really trade up a couple of notches to be in a good spot to nab this guy. He's an home grown spectacular offensive player and playmaker and what he misses in terms of all around game CAN be taught to him. One thing I've learned is that Timmins and his staff have earned the benefit of doubt. For a team that couldn't draft 1st rounders throughout the '90's if their life depended on it, now the Habs have Komisarek, Perezhogin, Higgins, Kostitsyn all 1st rounders with Chipchura likely getting some games in next year and Price not far behind. Add to that recently drafted non 1st rounders, Plekanec, Lapierre, Halak, Streit, Latendresse as regulars, Milroy, Ferland, Grabovski all got in some games. O'Byrne, D'Agostini could be next on that list. Plus interesting guys like Emelin, Fischer, S. Kostitsyn, Carle, White, Maxwell and you have an impressive prospect pool. So clearly they know what they are doing at the draft table. That's not to say that they are mistake free, just that they are getting good results at every level, so hopefully the will continue to do so. If they take Espo then there's a good reason for it, if they don't then there's a good reason for it. Frankly I'm not a huge fan of this draft, but we'll see what the team can come up with.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 26, 2007 7:30:49 GMT -5
Pat Hickey thinks the Habs are going to deal one of, if not both of their picks...
(when did I start providing daily Hickey updates?)
Weak draft means Habs could deal
PAT HICKEY, The Gazette Published: Thursday, April 26, 2007
The final pre-draft rankings from the National Hockey League's Central Scouting Bureau have been released and they have reinforced my belief that the Canadiens will probably use their two first-round picks to trade for an established NHL player.
General manager Bob Gainey raised that possibility during his annual season-end review and the possibility looms large, because this isn't a very talented draft class, nor is it very deep.
I saw two of the top six North American skaters - Patrick Kane and London Knights teammate Sam Gagner - this week and I wasn't impressed with either. Kane, ranked No. 2 behind Kyle Turris, a Tier Two player from British Columbia, was the top scorer in junior hockey this past season, but all I saw was a 5-foot-9, 162-pounder who got bounced around from one end of the ice to the other.
To anyone who hasn't been following junior hockey closely, the biggest surprise might have been the fact Angelo Esposito of the Quebec Remparts, who at one point was expected to be the star of this class, has dropped to eighth among North American skaters. That will lead to speculation that the Montrealer could be available when the Canadiens pick in the No. 12 spot, but Esposito's stock has dropped because scouts don't feel he's tough enough, and that wouldn't go over big with Gainey or coach Guy Carbonneau.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 26, 2007 7:40:53 GMT -5
Personally I think the organization can't let the opportunity to draft Esposito slip through their finger (especially in a weak draft). A year ago this player was a sure shot top 5 and now he may have slipped just enough for the HABS to have a realistic chance to grab him. HABS should really trade up a couple of notches to be in a good spot to nab this guy. He's an home grown spectacular offensive player and playmaker and what he misses in terms of all around game CAN be taught to him. I don't know Doc, I hear that sometimes he wears his hat crooked... There is already a lot of pressure coming from the media, both French and English, to draft this guy if he is available. It will be a very interesting dilemna for the Habs, should he be available. If this draft is as weak as it sounds, do you swing for the fences, and hope you get a game-breaker, even though the bust potential is very high? Or do you play it safe, add to the cupboard, and hope he doesn't pull a Simon Gagne on you? I guess the question they have to ask is, do they go for Marian Hossa, Jason Ward, or Alexandre Daigle? * If Esposito falls to the Habs, he could be like Hossa in that he is a supremely skilled player who for some reason or another wasn't well liked on draft day. * If they pass on Esposito, they could take a Jason Ward type player, getting a guy who will play 10-12 years in the NHL, who will give you decent character, some grit and defense, and not much fanfare. * They could take Esposito, and find out that he fell for a reason, and that despite the talent, he just can't put it all together, anymore than Daigle could. Very tough call. Given that this is reputed to be a weak draft year, I tentatively say that they should draft Esposito. Unless they have somebody in their sights who they think is a hidden game-breaker (a la Patrice Bergeron), I'd rather them bust with high-end potential, than see them bust with low-level potential. We can always get the Jason Ward types with the Sharks pick. Again, that's assuming that they don't see 'hidden' potential in somebody else that happens to be sitting there at #12. But they had better be darn sure if they pass on him. I'd hate to see Esposito fall into THAT list... you know, the one with Savard, Gagne, Tanguay. Bergeron... well, you know the rest...
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Post by Yossarian on Apr 26, 2007 8:43:51 GMT -5
I think they should go the BPA route, with an asterisk. That is, the BPA that isn't a smallish, speedy, soft(er) player. In this respect, they would be filling a need at either forward or defence.
Having said that, I wouldn't waste the 12 pick on Esposito, but the pick obtained from the Sharks would be worth it. It is a long shot, but something tells me he might slide that far.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 26, 2007 10:06:18 GMT -5
IMHO, it won't matter who the Habs draft. If the kid doesn't come into a favourable, positive working environment then we may never see his fullest potential come out ... until they've left the club.
Having said that though, should Esposito be available come the Habs pick then I can't see how they wouldn't select him.
However, I'd also like the Habs to take a good look at Logan Couture as well. He's been playing for Brian Kilrea in Ottawa and Kilrea's graduates are character kids across the board. Couture is coachable, has a good shot.
Have a friend who is a minor league coach and he said Couture has better basics than Traverese. However, Traverese is still developing as well.
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Apr 26, 2007 10:37:02 GMT -5
Pat Hickey thinks the Habs are going to deal one of, if not both of their picks... How about the pick from the Sharks, Sammy, and Kovy for a bag of pucks? We have to pay the price [small "p"] to free up the cap space. Couture was sick/injured part of the year. When he played he was a leader.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 26, 2007 20:45:01 GMT -5
I'd hate to see Esposito on the Habs. He is a head case ala Lindros, and if we have any locker-room problems, he will be a contributor to the unrest. He'll be begging for a trade, or refusing to play faster than you can say "Samsonov".
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 27, 2007 15:00:45 GMT -5
I'd hate to see Esposito on the Habs. He is a head case ala Lindros, and if we have any locker-room problems, he will be a contributor to the unrest. He'll be begging for a trade, or refusing to play faster than you can say "Samsonov". Holly smokes where does that comes from? Some media outlet gave Espo some incredibly bad press because he didn't want to jump right away in the LHJMQ and wanted instead to continue his studies in the US (where he played during his High School). I can't believe this is now being stretched into "Esposito is a head case"... I live right near Quebec city and never heard one negative story about this kid nor anything that even remotely suggest he's a locker room problem. The knock on him is that he's not a physical player.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 28, 2007 16:47:38 GMT -5
I'd hate to see Esposito on the Habs. He is a head case ala Lindros, and if we have any locker-room problems, he will be a contributor to the unrest. He'll be begging for a trade, or refusing to play faster than you can say "Samsonov". Holly smokes where does that comes from? Some media outlet gave Espo some incredibly bad press because he didn't want to jump right away in the LHJMQ and wanted instead to continue his studies in the US (where he played during his High School). I can't believe this is now being stretched into "Esposito is a head case"... I live right near Quebec city and never heard one negative story about this kid nor anything that even remotely suggest he's a locker room problem. The knock on him is that he's not a physical player. Well the press outside la Belle province (NL and NB especially) is that he LIED about his wanting to study in the US, to avoid coming to New Brunswick and Newfoundland. He did not want to be known as a player who refused to play, so he told ALL teams in the Q that he did not want to play in the Q. Where did he play again? Ohhhh the Q! How is that now? He ended up in the Q, because he only wanted to play for the Remparts and he lied to the first 4 teams in the draft to get his wish .... that's a head case ala Lindros. At least Lindors had the "round thingys" to say he wasn't going to play for the teams (to give them a chance to draft him and trade him if they desired). Esposito prefered to dupe everyone. And from what I understand the Fog Devils (#2 pick) offered Esposito the same "incentives - or very close" to come here ... and I bet the Sea Dogs(#1 pick) did too.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 30, 2007 11:37:46 GMT -5
Holly smokes where does that comes from? Some media outlet gave Espo some incredibly bad press because he didn't want to jump right away in the LHJMQ and wanted instead to continue his studies in the US (where he played during his High School). I can't believe this is now being stretched into "Esposito is a head case"... I live right near Quebec city and never heard one negative story about this kid nor anything that even remotely suggest he's a locker room problem. The knock on him is that he's not a physical player. Well the press outside la Belle province (NL and NB especially) is that he LIED about his wanting to study in the US, to avoid coming to New Brunswick and Newfoundland. He did not want to be known as a player who refused to play, so he told ALL teams in the Q that he did not want to play in the Q. Where did he play again? Ohhhh the Q! How is that now? He ended up in the Q, because he only wanted to play for the Remparts and he lied to the first 4 teams in the draft to get his wish .... that's a head case ala Lindros. At least Lindors had the "round thingys" to say he wasn't going to play for the teams (to give them a chance to draft him and trade him if they desired). Esposito prefered to dupe everyone. And from what I understand the Fog Devils (#2 pick) offered Esposito the same "incentives - or very close" to come here ... and I bet the Sea Dogs(#1 pick) did too. It's quite unbelievable how you're ready to crucify a guy and call him a liar and a head case based on assumptions and innuendos. Espo played his midget hockey in the US and wanted to continue playing there. Nothing wrong with that, the NCAA is full of great prospects that chose that route instead of the Canadian system to develop. Roy drafted him nonetheless and then started negotiating with the kid to bring him over. Roy and The Ramparts took the chance other teams chose not to take and I can assure you that if Roy had been the GM of the Sea Dogs or the Fog Devils he would have picked Esposito and convinced him to play for his team. Blame those teams for not doing what they should have, not Espo for having been convinced to come play for an Hall of Famer and local idol. Speaking about Esposito, Roy feels the HABS should jump on the opportunity to draft him: 30 APRIL 2007. DON'T OVERLOOK ESPOSITO, SAYS ROY. LA PRESSE: Mathias Brunet reports Quebec Ramparts head coach and GM Patrick Roy advises his former club, the Montreal Canadiens, not to overlook Ramparts forward Angelo Esposito if they get an opportunity to select him in this year's draft. Esposito's prospect ranking dropped this season in correlation with his declining numbers in the QMJHL (79 points) compared to last season (98 points), but Roy believes that's due to Esposito putting too much pressure upon himself. Roy believes the young forward, a Montreal native, has what it takes to be an NHL star. The Canadiens have the 12th pick overall in this summer's draft, and Roy suggested if they pass over Esposito it would be akin to when the club passed over Denis Savard in favour of Doug Wickenheiser. Spector's Note: I've seen Esposito play and he has the ability to take control of a game. There's some concern about his size (6-1, 170 lbs), but I agree with Roy that it would be a mistake for the Canadiens - or any other NHL team - to pass over this kid. It's been rumoured the Habs might try to shop their first round pick or bundle with the first rounder they got from the Sharks in the Rivet trade for an experienced player. Full article (in French) here: www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070430/CPSPORTS0101/704300638/5112/CPSPORTS0101
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Post by habmeister on Apr 30, 2007 12:18:28 GMT -5
roy meddling, if he wants to work for us he should ask for a job as scout of the q or something, not doing press conferences as to who the canadiens should draft. if they take him it looks like they did because of what roy said, not smart. i trust timmins and bob to take the kid if he is there mentally and has character, if not they'll pass on him, although i doubt he'll be available when we pick.
i'd still rather have a good big d-man but looks like ellerby will be gone by then.
if he is a future star then of course we should take him, this draft is going to be very interesting, it seems like i/we know the prospects better than most seasons.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 30, 2007 12:28:00 GMT -5
roy meddling, if he wants to work for us he should ask for a job as scout of the q or something, not doing press conferences as to who the canadiens should draft. That is not what he did. Roy gave his opinion to a journalist that asked for it.
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Post by chief6 on Apr 30, 2007 14:25:55 GMT -5
I'm also interested in another Hitman D-man Alex Plante. I went to game six of the series against Brandon, and it's the only WHL game I've seen all year. Naturally, I spent a lot of time watching Ryan White, and while he didn't do a lot for me, I couldn't help but notice this Alex Plante. He played a tight, smart game. He seemed to move the puck well and never took himself out of position. NHL Central Scouting has him 72nd among North American skaters, ISS has him 15th. I'd prefer to use that second-round pick, but I wouldn't complain if they used their second first-round pick to take him.
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Post by duster on Apr 30, 2007 15:20:04 GMT -5
I've seen Alex Plante play a couple of times and I liked what I saw. I don't know how well his game will succeed at an NHL level.
I've seen Esposito play once and wasn't all that impressed. Perhaps my expectations were too high after reading all the hype. Some who have seen him on a more frequent basis compare him to Ribs in many ways, including the latter's on ice vision and lack of physical game. Does Gainey want another Ribs after effectively giving away the original article for nothing?
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Post by Skilly on Apr 30, 2007 18:08:36 GMT -5
It's quite unbelievable how you're ready to crucify a guy and call him a liar I won't quote your entire post but you did touch on one main topic. He wanted to play for Quebec and only Quebec. Instead of just saying that he lied .... Our (Fog Devil) scouts talked to him and the season ticket holders here were told "He said don't draft me because there is no way I am playing in the Q" So you are an expansion franchise, do you waste a pick and draft a guy whose sole goal was to scare teams away, or do you go to the next BPA so you can get bodies in the stands. Don't believe me? Well have you googled the draft? I know wikipedia is not the most reliable site but it says ... Angelo's QMJHL career started in controversy. He was considered a possible first overall draft choice in the QMJHL, but told all general managers that he would never play in the QMJHL, but instead for the NCAA. Just minutes before the Val d'Or Foreurs draft choice, the Quebec Remparts announced that they had traded several players and draft choices to get the Foreurs' draft pick, which was slated at 11th overall. Despite his overwhelming talent and potential, Angelo was passed over by QMJHL general managers because of his previous announcement that he would play in the collegiate system. He was subsequently drafted by the Remparts. A couple weeks later, Angelo and the Remparts agreed to an arrangement, allowing him to play for them the next year.Roy traded all those players and picks so he was confident making the selection ... there is no doubt in my mind, or in the mind of journalists at that draft that there was something shady on the go. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he said "you can draft me, but I am only playing for Quebec". At least then the expansion Sea Dogs could have got something to build around, instead of an established team like Val d'Or. I am not crucifying him ... all I said was he was a "head case like Lindros" ... did Lindros not pull the same sort of stunt? At least Lindros was up front and honest about it. And your theory that if Roy was GM of the Fog Devils he would have come here is not true. The Fog Devils offered him a comparable package that the Remparts did, or so we have been told. He, plain and si,ple, wanted to play in Quebec. When it looked like he wasn't going to getthat wish, well he made it public ... I am going to the NCAA ... when he realized that he just may get to play in Quebec, he changed his mind. (with a little "incentive package" from M.Roy). You don't really think Roy is dumb enough to draft him hoping to sign him do you? He knew from the start what Angelo wanted. Trading up to #1 or #2 would have been rather costly, but #11 ... well sure now that is doable.
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 18, 2007 7:51:59 GMT -5
According to Eklund, HABs are seriously looking at trading up to be in better position on draft day in order to pick Espo. Eklund is Eklund and you take that with a grain of salt, but drafting Esposito is a must this year and given the marketing potential of the kid, Boivin's team will certainly greatly pressure Gainey's gang to secure that pick.
"Habs likely to trade up for Espo
Talking to a Habs source last night in Ottawa, and then following it up today, I have confirmed that the Habs are looking to move up to get Angelo Esposito, the once consensus #1, that many are comparing to Phil Kessel..."His stock has dropped, but so did Phil's and at the end of the day, Boston got a steal." Montreal will have to get to at least 5, but Philly may be willing to trade the #2 pick I am hearing..."
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Post by BadCompany on May 18, 2007 9:04:28 GMT -5
Tough call. I agree that I think the Habs will have to trade up to get Esposito, as contrary to popular opinion I don’t think he’s going to fall all that much. Trading up to #5 sounds about right, if they want to get him. Having said that, if they do trade up to #5, and if my (in progress) mock draft matches the real draft, I think there will be at least one better player available. This isn’t to knock Esposito, who I think is getting a little bit of the HF bum-rap treatment that at least one prospect gets every year, but merely to point out that I think there might be better players available. Certainly if they trade up to Philly at #2, I would not take Esposito. <Giggle… “If my mock draft matches the real draft” …. As if!!> From a pure marketing standpoint, my crystal ball says the Habs will NOT draft a local boy with one of their first picks in the first round, but that one of their picks WILL cause a bit of a stir in the press (local and national), and that they will end up taking five QMJHL players in later rounds, including a very “discussable” player. As in “I wonder why they did that?”. How is that for a teaser?
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Post by Douper on May 18, 2007 10:41:32 GMT -5
Did Sam Gagne play with Kats Jr in London? He might be an interresting pick if available. I'm wondering where we could move up in the draft with our 2 1st this year (12-22)? Would we be able to crack the top 5 with those 2 I wonder?
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