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Post by PTH on Jan 26, 2023 16:46:51 GMT -5
I just thought we could have a thread to discuss the trade deadline and what might happen...
-Today MSL had a presser where he explained he was rolling 7D to keep as many young D in games rather than have a rotation, and I couldn't help but think this means a guy like Edmundson is more likely to be moved, if there's a reasonably good deal on the table. Unless it's Wideman ? I'd keep Wideman as the perfect 7th D you don't mind sitting since development isn't an issue. But at his (low) cap hit, someone might want to add depth on D.
-I find it hard to figure out if Monahan is going to fetch much, his injury issues have to weigh on people's minds, but he's also an impact player who could add some offensive punch to a lot of teams. I wonder if Carolina, after the Pacioretty injury, might be interested.
-Anderson seems to keep on popping up in conversation... I have to figure if he leaves, it'll be for a boatload, since there's no great motivation to move him. That being said, if I'm Hughes, I don't want to end up stuck with him long-term, since the years when his cap-hit exceeds his usefulness will be the ones when we most need cap room, assuming the rebuild goes as planned.
-Armia's contract is kind of scary, but big forwards can sometimes be attractive come playoff time... I really would love to see him out the door.
I started the year thinking Byron and Dadonov would be our two deadline rentals, but Byron seems to be gone for good and Dadonov is very disappointing. I still wonder if some team with cap room might add him as a depth move. Return will be negligible, though.
I find it interesting that Dvorak isn't being discussed at all. It's almost suspicious. A sign-Monahan-move-Dvorak scenario might work, and it would fit with the Romanov-Dach trades in that it's multiple moves done together.
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Post by folatre on Jan 26, 2023 19:00:28 GMT -5
The trade deadline is only five weeks away, so there is no question GMs of buyers and sellers are already getting dialed in.
Regarding guys with term on their contracts, it is really complicated to move them at the deadline. Hughes already said he basically sees retaining on anything aside from an expiring contract as contrary to the organization's interests. The only guy who might test Hughes' basic sentiment would be Edmundson since his deal runs through 2023-24 but is not a big ticket AAV. I believe if a suitor puts a first rounder on the table, then Montreal will pull the trigger and retain. If there is nothing better than a second rounder or a stalled prospect, then I suspect Hughes will say no thanks since he holds all the cards and can trade Edmundson down the line.
If Dvorak and/or Anderson are on the move, it would have to be a summer hockey trade. Armia is just such an enigma. When he is engaged and confident, his contract seems totally fine. However, when he is coasting for weeks at a time, it literally feels like a buyout could be coming.
The guys on expiring contracts, with the exception of Monahan, are not too enticing. Like you say, Wideman could be a cheap insurance piece for a team worried about its depth. Dadonov has been better lately, but still disappointing overall. And his player profile (soft middle six winger) and elevated AAV make it hard to imagine he is on the radar of many teams. The case of Drouin is almost identical, with the added turnoff that he is always getting injured.
Monahan is definitely the most interesting case to watch. If he can get back play seven or eight games at the level he was at early in the season, then I do not think it is out of the question Hughes can get something like a second and a third for Monahan and a fourth. The notion that management would not mind re-signing Monahan is not far-fetched. However, I think there is good reason to be skeptical about his chances to staying healthy in the future. For me I would be happy to give him something like 2 years/$8 million. But I have a feeling a guy who has just went through the darkness of serious injury is probably angling to get as much term as he can because the old adage your next contract may well be your last contract likely resonates with a guy like Monahan.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 27, 2023 2:28:37 GMT -5
We're not re-signing Monahan. We will take the best offer made, hopefully no worse than a 2nd rounder. If we get no offers then he leaves a an FA. He ain't signing for anything less than 3 or 4 years and we don't want or need him that long - way too m much money and term for us. We have Dach, and perhaps PLD. Hopefully Monahan gets healthy gets a few games and we get a decent return. that was the strategy when we picked him up and we should see it through.
No one is picking up Dads. Any contender has at least 4 guys in their system better than Dads. He brings nothing. He is the worst forward on one of the worst teams in the league.
Eddy ain't getting us a 1st round pick. Might get us a 2nd but he's a stay at home dman, and he ain't even very good at that. But I think he is likely gone. We can't have him and Savard next year. One of them and Matheson is more than enough vets and let the kids play. Guhle's gonna be great. Xman is very good in so many areas - I'm always more comfortable with him out there than Eddy, Savard, or Mathison. Barron is coming around and Harris can hold his own. Bottom line Eddy has to go to clear cap space and give the kids some TOI.
No one is taking Drouin. He was never any good and he's even worse when the going gets tough i.e. playoffs.
If Hughes can somehow dump Hoffman, that would be a major coup. But he doesn't bring enough for a gm to want to take on his salary.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 27, 2023 9:15:57 GMT -5
We're not re-signing Monahan. We will take the best offer made, hopefully no worse than a 2nd rounder. If we get no offers then he leaves a an FA. He ain't signing for anything less than 3 or 4 years and we don't want or need him that long - way too m much money and term for us. We have Dach, and perhaps PLD. Hopefully Monahan gets healthy gets a few games and we get a decent return. that was the strategy when we picked him up and we should see it through. No one is picking up Dads. Any contender has at least 4 guys in their system better than Dads. He brings nothing. He is the worst forward on one of the worst teams in the league. Eddy ain't getting us a 1st round pick. Might get us a 2nd but he's a stay at home dman, and he ain't even very good at that. But I think he is likely gone. We can't have him and Savard next year. One of them and Matheson is more than enough vets and let the kids play. Guhle's gonna be great. Xman is very good in so many areas - I'm always more comfortable with him out there than Eddy, Savard, or Mathison. Barron is coming around and Harris can hold his own. Bottom line Eddy has to go to clear cap space and give the kids some TOI. No one is taking Drouin. He was never any good and he's even worse when the going gets tough i.e. playoffs. If Hughes can somehow dump Hoffman, that would be a major coup. But he doesn't bring enough for a gm to want to take on his salary. Unfortunately for Tank Nation this is very close to how I feel about who we have... if Monahan had stayed healthy, he would get us a first but we would maybe be out of the bottom 10 in the standing. The major benefit of his injury is Dach is becoming the 3rd overall pick the Hawks drafted. Watching him play lately you can see his confidence in everything he does... with what we have in the pipeline we could have the best centre group since the 80s. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 27, 2023 10:09:04 GMT -5
If it is not for a first round pick or an A-list prospect, Hughes will not trade Edmundson. That is luxury of having another 12 months to find the right deal.
As much as I concur that Edmundson has never quite found his game this season, big physical 29 year old d-men who have already been through the grind of two SCF runs do not grow on trees. GMs are obsessed with these type of guys, look no further than the return on Chiarot and Savard. Plus, Edmundson's contract adds to, rather than subtracts from, his value. If Montreal is doing the favor of retaining, some team is not only getting Edmundson for the playoffs this spring they are also getting a second pair d-man at a $1.75 million AAV in 2023-24, which is insanely cheap. And if the buyer for some reason is not in contention next season, then they can flip him at the deadline and recoup most of what they paid asset-wise to the Habs.
I imagine Hughes loves the position he is in when taking calls about Edmundson. I know that I would.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 27, 2023 10:48:17 GMT -5
If it is not for a first round pick or an A-list prospect, Hughes will not trade Edmundson. That is luxury of having another 12 months to find the right deal. As much as I concur that Edmundson has never quite found his game this season, big physical 29 year old d-men who have already been through the grind of two SCF runs do not grow on trees. GMs are obsessed with these type of guys, look no further than the return on Chiarot and Savard. Plus, Edmundson's contract adds to, rather than subtracts from, his value. If Montreal is doing the favor of retaining, some team is not only getting Edmundson for the playoffs this spring they are also getting a second pair d-man at a $1.75 million AAV in 2023-24, which is insanely cheap. And if the buyer for some reason is not in contention next season, then they can flip him at the deadline and recoup most of what they paid asset-wise to the Habs. I imagine Hughes loves the position he is in when taking calls about Edmundson. I know that I would. Hope you're right on Eddy. But just don't see getting a first round pick. I was stunned we got that for Chariot and I suspect Fla is now stunned, pissed and humiliated they gave up their first for Chariot. let's see if HuGo can work some more magic. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 27, 2023 11:23:38 GMT -5
Well, seventeen will love this ....I saw a report on a website (now it could be a total fake news website, hookedonhockey) that says Pierre Lebrun is reporting the Canadiens turned down a first rounder in exchange for Josh Anderson.
Strange I haven't seen Lebrun tweet that, so like I said, I'm sceptical of the website
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Post by Scotty D on Jan 27, 2023 15:04:15 GMT -5
Unfortunately for Tank Nation this is very close to how I feel about who we have... if Monahan had stayed healthy, he would get us a first but we would maybe be out of the bottom 10 in the standing. The major benefit of his injury is Dach is becoming the 3rd overall pick the Hawks drafted. Watching him play lately you can see his confidence in everything he does... with what we have in the pipeline we could have the best centre group since the 80s. don't you mean only center group since the 80's / early 90's i cant recall since the last cup where weve had even one legitimate first line C, with all due respect to Saku after his early injuries as a sophomore he never was the same. |
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2023 15:49:22 GMT -5
Well, seventeen will love this ....I saw a report on a website (now it could be a total fake news website, hookedonhockey) that says Pierre Lebrun is reporting the Canadiens turned down a first rounder in exchange for Josh Anderson. Strange I haven't seen Lebrun tweet that, so like I said, I'm sceptical of the website Danslescoulisses.com, a decent enough website, has the same story. They tend to blow everything out of proportion, but aren't completely out there making up random crap, either. Apparently NJ, Dallas and Calgary might be interested in Anderson, with NJ wanting a winger signed beyond this season. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 27, 2023 16:53:29 GMT -5
Unfortunately for Tank Nation this is very close to how I feel about who we have... if Monahan had stayed healthy, he would get us a first but we would maybe be out of the bottom 10 in the standing. The major benefit of his injury is Dach is becoming the 3rd overall pick the Hawks drafted. Watching him play lately you can see his confidence in everything he does... with what we have in the pipeline we could have the best centre group since the 80s. don't you mean only center group since the 80's / early 90's i cant recall since the last cup where weve had even one legitimate first line C, with all due respect to Saku after his early injuries as a sophomore he never was the same. I won't disagree with you on that... |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 27, 2023 16:54:48 GMT -5
Well, seventeen will love this ....I saw a report on a website (now it could be a total fake news website, hookedonhockey) that says Pierre Lebrun is reporting the Canadiens turned down a first rounder in exchange for Josh Anderson. Strange I haven't seen Lebrun tweet that, so like I said, I'm sceptical of the website Danslescoulisses.com, a decent enough website, has the same story. They tend to blow everything out of proportion, but aren't completely out there making up random crap, either. Apparently NJ, Dallas and Calgary might be interested in Anderson, with NJ wanting a winger signed beyond this season. Send him out west... |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 27, 2023 17:24:25 GMT -5
Well, seventeen will love this ....I saw a report on a website (now it could be a total fake news website, hookedonhockey) that says Pierre Lebrun is reporting the Canadiens turned down a first rounder in exchange for Josh Anderson. Strange I haven't seen Lebrun tweet that, so like I said, I'm sceptical of the website A first rounder was the least I expected for Anderson, though if I'm the opposing GM, I never offer that  . From better teams like Calgary and NJ, I'd rather have, however, someone they drafted the last 2 years who is ready to step in the right now as a developing player like a few of our young D, or someone who arrives next year. Calgary doesn't have a lot of those. Coronato maybe along with their first rounder in some year, preferably this one. The Devils have some interesting guys. They won't give up Luke Hughes or Nemec...no way, Shakir Mukhmadullin maybe. Big D playing in the KHL right now. The Habs scout would know the Devils' prospects better, but I'd be asking for Mukhmadullin and a second rounder or something like that. Maybe their first if NJ is confident enough as they should go a ways in the playoffs this year so that pick would be late. If Dallas I'd want Bichsel, though I suspect they wouldn't do that. Mavrik Bourque would be nice, too and they're more likely to go for that, but he alone wouldn't be enough for me. What do you other guys think? What would you ask for from those teams? |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 27, 2023 18:15:35 GMT -5
I do not see the logic of trading Anderson. We have no one in the pipeline with his abilities and unlikely to sign one any time soon. You have to excuse my dreams here but I see a Leclair/Lindros type duo in Dubois/Anderson. Everyone else mentioned, fine, see-ya, particularly Monahan who I can't see as a major contributor anymore. Which of course means that unless we see Dubois, Dvorak is not that easy to get rid of without creating a hole. It would be a mistake to resign Monahan so as to be able to get rid of Dvorak. Did I mention Dubois? It seems I have a terrible habit of doing that...  |
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Post by folatre on Jan 27, 2023 18:59:02 GMT -5
Unless the offer is exceptional (e.g. first rounder and really good prospect), I share Cranky's opinion here. Big, fast, punishing forecheckers who chip in 20-25 goals are valuable. And that is why they are highly sought after.
Montreal's roster has plenty of holes and will still have holes in 2023-24, but I think we can all agree that Molson and management are not going to trade away guys like Savard, Anderson, and Matheson based on the reasoning that well some kid can flounder around out there and the product on the ice is basically irrelevant until the rebuild is complete. I just do not believe that is the way they are approaching things.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 27, 2023 19:02:54 GMT -5
Did I mention Dubois? Nearly an hour has gone by... |
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2023 19:16:27 GMT -5
I do not see the logic of trading Anderson. We have no one in the pipeline with his abilities and unlikely to sign one any time soon. You have to excuse my dreams here but I see a Leclair/Lindros type duo in Dubois/Anderson. Everyone else mentioned, fine, see-ya, particularly Monahan who I can't see as a major contributor anymore. Which of course means that unless we see Dubois, Dvorak is not that easy to get rid of without creating a hole. It would be a mistake to resign Monahan so as to be able to get rid of Dvorak. Did I mention Dubois? It seems I have a terrible doing that... I think the fear is that his contract becomes an anchor, and we're wasting the best years of his career when we aren't going anywhere. And we might be able to get something of interest for him now, and in 3 years maybe he's unmovable just as we need cap room. And if ever we're adding Dubois, we need to free up top-6 spots up front and corresponding cap room. And Gallagher ain't going anywhere other than a flip of bad contracts. Say we a 1st in a great draft as well as a decent kid, or a solid kid and a lesser pick. Mavrik Bourque and a 2nd ? Tatar, a young C and a second and hope lightning strikes again ? The only case for keeping Anderson would be the hope we get Bedard and the idea he'd be in his prime for the "Bedard ELC deal" window. The tough think is finding a way to make this work cap-wise. Dallas, Calgary and NJ don't have much room, and no obvious deadspace expiring contracts to return. Dallas has buried Khudobin, but 2M isn't enough. NJ has Johnsson at 2.75M, that could work. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 27, 2023 19:28:56 GMT -5
I do not see the logic of trading Anderson. We have no one in the pipeline with his abilities and unlikely to sign one any time soon. You have to excuse my dreams here but I see a Leclair/Lindros type duo in Dubois/Anderson. Everyone else mentioned, fine, see-ya, particularly Monahan who I can't see as a major contributor anymore. Which of course means that unless we see Dubois, Dvorak is not that easy to get rid of without creating a hole. It would be a mistake to resign Monahan so as to be able to get rid of Dvorak. Did I mention Dubois? It seems I have a terrible doing that... I think the fear is that his contract becomes an anchor, and we're wasting the best years of his career when we aren't going anywhere. And we might be able to get something of interest for him now, and in 3 years maybe he's unmovable just as we need cap room. And if ever we're adding Dubois, we need to free up top-6 spots up front and corresponding cap room. And Gallagher ain't going anywhere other than a flip of bad contracts. Say we a 1st in a great draft as well as a decent kid, or a solid kid and a lesser pick. Mavrik Bourque and a 2nd ? Tatar, a young C and a second and hope lightning strikes again ? The only case for keeping Anderson would be the hope we get Bedard and the idea he'd be in his prime for the "Bedard ELC deal" window. The tough think is finding a way to make this work cap-wise. Dallas, Calgary and NJ don't have much room, and no obvious deadspace expiring contracts to return. Dallas has buried Khudobin, but 2M isn't enough. NJ has Johnsson at 2.75M, that could work. The fly in the ointment is that they offer equal or more then he is currently worth and the next 3 years. Getting a mid round pick is NOT worth it. Nor a "great prospect" unless he's already in the league and has some proof of his ability and potential. An interesting trade would be for Lafreniere, but he's not going to make us better, arguably a bit worse, he will just have a longer shelf life and probably cheaper in the long run. We are simply not going to find another "younger" Anderson in the trade market unless we pay through the nose OR sign one for big dollars if he's UFA. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 27, 2023 21:18:44 GMT -5
Moving Anderson, if it happens at all, is a project for the summer when serious suitors can more easily move roster pieces (i.e. cap money) around. Hughes is not retaining any money whatsoever on a contract that runs through 2026-27.
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2023 23:06:16 GMT -5
We are simply not going to find another "younger" Anderson in the trade market unless we pay through the nose OR sign one for big dollars if he's UFA. I'd rather a 50% chance at a high-end impact player with a top-25 pick, and through trades we'll get an "Anderson" if needed in 5 years, rather than hanging onto this guy and letting him risk getting hurt or just losing value as he ages. |
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2023 0:07:44 GMT -5
Moving Anderson, if it happens at all, is a project for the summer when serious suitors can more easily move roster pieces (i.e. cap money) around. Hughes is not retaining any money whatsoever on a contract that runs through 2026-27. Perhaps. OTOH, there might be a bidding war among playoff teams, and teams will take his immediate contribution into account more than they would in the summer when they'll compare his long-term impact to that UFA they could sign. And without retaining, by taking back bad expiring contracts it can work out the same. Dallas has Khudobin in the minors, taking him back would be equivalent to 50% retention for this year. ----- Another random thought... Hughes wants a 3d 1st rounder. I wonder how likely it is at the draft that Calgary and Montreal scrap the existing trade for Monahan and basically trade Calgary's 1st rounder this year for the conditional 2025 pick. If Calgary's pick ends up being in the 10-15 range, I think both teams could be tempted. It all depends on who's left on the board, of course, but complex conditional deals make planning for the future far more difficult. Why not cut through it all ? Of course, Montreal would be taking the risk that they don't get the very high picks we could hope for in 2025 or 2026, but those were very low probability events. I know if I'm Hughes, if my scouts are drooling over someone still available at Calgary's pick at (say) #12, and Calgary is in... |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2023 2:02:42 GMT -5
I do not see the logic of trading Anderson. We have no one in the pipeline with his abilities and unlikely to sign one any time soon. You have to excuse my dreams here but I see a Leclair/Lindros type duo in Dubois/Anderson. Dubois is a player definitely worth adding to the Habs, but Anderson is lacking that, je ne sais quoi.....vision? That's a harsh description no doubt, but he had the fifth worst passing rating a couple of years ago for a reason. He has tunnel vision. He is like the bull in the Bugs Bunny skit where he chases Bugs all over the place and can't see anything but a cape and a rabbit. Bugs describes him as Gullibull. If he had Suzuki's hockey IQ and his own physical base, he'd be unstoppable. His career 82 game pace is 36 points. Thirty six points a year. That isn't nearly enough for a team wanting to be a contender and playing him in the top 6. Michael Bunting has 33 points already, in 50 games. Michael Freaking Bunting. Anderson still only looks good walking off the bus. Don't be fooled. PS I wonder if he has more majors this year than Dach. |
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 28, 2023 15:26:46 GMT -5
I've never taken such interest in the flight/plight of the Panthers. But with a first rounder or Bedard on the line for us it has become a fixation of mine. They choked against the Kings last night and their announcers were going on about how that was a must win game and the loss stings. And tonight they play the Bruins. I will have to hold my nose and root for the Bruins. A loss by Fla puts them at 500 for the season making the playoffs pretty unlikely given the number of teams ahead of them. Let's hope they become sellers in a month!
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2023 15:39:40 GMT -5
I've never taken such interest in the flight/plight of the Panthers. But with a first rounder or Bedard on the line for us it has become a fixation of mine. They choked against the Kings last night and their announcers were going on about how that was a must win game and the loss stings. And tonight they play the Bruins. I will have to hold my nose and root for the Bruins. A loss by Fla puts them at 500 for the season making the playoffs pretty unlikely given the number of teams ahead of them. Let's hope they become sellers in a month! That would be magical... |
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 28, 2023 16:30:44 GMT -5
I've never taken such interest in the flight/plight of the Panthers. But with a first rounder or Bedard on the line for us it has become a fixation of mine. They choked against the Kings last night and their announcers were going on about how that was a must win game and the loss stings. And tonight they play the Bruins. I will have to hold my nose and root for the Bruins. A loss by Fla puts them at 500 for the season making the playoffs pretty unlikely given the number of teams ahead of them. Let's hope they become sellers in a month! That would be magical... Just think if Fla's pick wins the lottery and we get Bedard. That would be Sam Pollock/Guy Lafleur worthy. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 28, 2023 16:57:54 GMT -5
Florida's defense is not good at all. And that Lyon dude they have had to run with in net this week is a sieve. Boston basically does not lose two games in row, so the Panthers could be in tough.
Even with Bobrovsky back next week and top guys like Barkov and Tkachuk playing really well, Florida faces a daunting task to make the playoffs. Even if they can claw past Buffalo and the Islanders, let's face it, studs like Crosby and Ovechkin just don't miss the playoffs.
Hopefully they not only miss, but also begin to lose contact with the Pens and Caps. Because something about the characters on that roster and the man behind the bench tells me the room could become rudderless and despondent. If they are ten points behind with twelve games remaining, I could seriously see that group mail it in and pile up losses.
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Post by jkr on Jan 28, 2023 17:37:52 GMT -5
I do not see the logic of trading Anderson. We have no one in the pipeline with his abilities and unlikely to sign one any time soon. You have to excuse my dreams here but I see a Leclair/Lindros type duo in Dubois/Anderson. Dubois is a player definitely worth adding to the Habs, but Anderson is lacking that, je ne sais quoi.....vision? That's a harsh description no doubt, but he had the fifth worst passing rating a couple of years ago for a reason. He has tunnel vision. He is like the bull in the Bugs Bunny skit where he chases Bugs all over the place and can't see anything but a cape and a rabbit. Bugs describes him as Gullibull. If he had Suzuki's hockey IQ and his own physical base, he'd be unstoppable. His career 82 game pace is 36 points. Thirty six points a year. That isn't nearly enough for a team wanting to be a contender and playing him in the top 6. Michael Bunting has 33 points already, in 50 games. Michael Freaking Bunting. Anderson still only looks good walking off the bus. Don't be fooled. PS I wonder if he has more majors this year than Dach. The Bunting numbers have everything to do with his linemates. If Anderson was on the wing with Matthews and Marner his numbers would be inflated too. Bunting was a 26 year old failed prospect until he landed with M & M. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2023 18:19:37 GMT -5
But somehow he manages to boost his scoring. It Doesn’t matter who Anderson is with, even Suzuki & Caufield, it’s 36 points a year. At least he’s consistent. 🤣😉
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Post by Skilly on Jan 28, 2023 19:28:05 GMT -5
Pitlick is terrible. Basically three on 1 and he does even manage to make a play that results in not only a shot, but the goalie having to move
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Post by Skilly on Jan 28, 2023 19:31:14 GMT -5
Edmundson had all kinds of trouble trying to clear it (3 times he could have made some kind of play). Belzile had enough and took the puck from him and flipped it out
* actually think it was Matheson
** just realized I’m posting in the wrong thread 🙄
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2023 23:34:15 GMT -5
** just realized I’m posting in the wrong thread 🙄 LOL |
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. From better teams like Calgary and NJ, I'd rather have, however, someone they drafted the last 2 years who is ready to step in the right now as a developing player like a few of our young D, or someone who arrives next year. Calgary doesn't have a lot of those. Coronato maybe along with their first rounder in some year, preferably this one. The Devils have some interesting guys. They won't give up Luke Hughes or Nemec...no way, Shakir Mukhmadullin maybe. Big D playing in the KHL right now. The Habs scout would know the Devils' prospects better, but I'd be asking for Mukhmadullin and a second rounder or something like that. Maybe their first if NJ is confident enough as they should go a ways in the playoffs this year so that pick would be late. 
