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Post by folatre on Feb 8, 2023 22:17:26 GMT -5
For sure, teams like Pittsburgh and Washington could be good targets. But I imagine their GMs will be careful with first rounders. I like the idea of grabbing a couple of seconds, but they would probably insist those be ’23 and ’24 rather than further out.
However, I am not totally sold on the idea of dealing Edmundson for less than a first, considering Habs management is not under pressure holding an expiring asset.
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Post by PTH on Feb 8, 2023 23:14:15 GMT -5
For sure, teams like Pittsburgh and Washington could be good targets. But I imagine their GMs will be careful with first rounders. I like the idea of grabbing a couple of seconds, but they would probably insist those be ’23 and ’24 rather than further out. However, I am not totally sold on the idea of dealing Edmundson for less than a first, considering Habs management is not under pressure holding an expiring asset. Same... but it all depends on what the market is like. It's better to sell too early than too late. This applies to Anderson, too. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 9, 2023 17:50:32 GMT -5
Too bad about the Rangers getting the top six RW and LHD they were looking for. I thought Edmundson would have been a good it there. Now, I would say the Oilers, Kings, and Capitals are among the likeliest teams who would love to add a healthy Joel Edmundson for the playoff wars that await them.
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Post by PTH on Feb 10, 2023 13:16:48 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Feb 15, 2023 22:46:25 GMT -5
Just a bit over two weeks to go and not a crazy amount of noise yet, though one imagines behind the scenes talks are heating up.
In the Toronto-centric world, all the speculation seems centered on Meier and Kane -- Meier because he is, technically at least, a non-rental and he is also the best winger available by a considerable margin; and Kane because the Insiders purportedly know he had the Rangers and Leafs on his very short list of acceptable trade partners.
Of course, bottom feeders such as Columbus (Gavrikov) and Arizona (Chychrun) are already holding their d-men trade chips out of the lineup.
After Horvat and Tarasenko, what do you say boys, who will be the next chip to fall? It is impossible to know, but my uneducated guess would something not overly exciting such as Schenn or McCabe. I just think the really big fish will go down to the wire because GMs who are selling elite talent are not yet seeing much urgency on the part of the buyers.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 16, 2023 2:26:52 GMT -5
Yeah, probably Schenn or Gavrikov. If both come off, Edmundson starts to look good.
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Post by jkr on Feb 16, 2023 7:42:57 GMT -5
Hard to tell with Kane. He may just be POd because guys like Dach, Kubalik & especially Debrincat are gone. And I have no idea how teams tight to the cap can afford him.
I know Leaf fans would love a flashy pick up but I really think their issue is goaltending. As folatre posted a few days ago, Samsonov & Woll have one playoff win between them. And despite what Leaf fans may think, Murray was never the answer. His numbers have been average or worse for 4 to 5 years. The injuries ( including 4 concussions) have been adding up. Its mid February & he has only played 19 games.
Guys like Kane and Toews are not the veteran with everything except a ring. They've had great success. Maybe they just play out the season & move on next year. It could be their FU to management that had clearly given up.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 16, 2023 12:30:14 GMT -5
Given Kane's questionable health, significant cap hit and NTC Chicago don't have much leverage to command a significant return. I could see him going to a team like Carolina at the 11th hour for a bargain.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 16, 2023 13:52:48 GMT -5
Hard to tell with Kane. He may just be POd because guys like Dach ... From Patrick Kane ... "I'm not surprised. What is he 21? 22? It takes some time sometimes, and he was probably rushed into the league," the three-time Stanley Cup champion told reporters. "Playing fourth-line minutes, getting sat out games, it's probably not the best thing for your development." Link |
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 16, 2023 17:59:05 GMT -5
Hard to tell with Kane. He may just be POd because guys like Dach ... From Patrick Kane ... "I'm not surprised. What is he 21? 22? It takes some time sometimes, and he was probably rushed into the league," the three-time Stanley Cup champion told reporters. "Playing fourth-line minutes, getting sat out games, it's probably not the best thing for your development." LinkI saw this and immediately thought of Slafs. Having Slafs with Le Club this year was wrong on many fronts. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 16, 2023 20:20:06 GMT -5
Hard to tell with Kane. He may just be POd because guys like Dach ... From Patrick Kane ... "I'm not surprised. What is he 21? 22? It takes some time sometimes, and he was probably rushed into the league," the three-time Stanley Cup champion told reporters. "Playing fourth-line minutes, getting sat out games, it's probably not the best thing for your development." LinkI posted the same thing in the out of town thread... Guerin knows everyone around the league, therefore I am sure he got the scoop on what he would be wading into with Craig Leipold. But, hey, there are only 32 NHL GMs in the world, so I suppose Guerin figured 'okay let's go, I build the team in my image, but accepting the condition that rebuilding is not an option.' I would be worried about Kane. He was a ghost last night at the Bell Centre. I know there is not much talent around him in Chicago, but he is just not darting around with the amazing lateral quickness that really defined his game. Kane looks like a guy who is pissed... the Hawks had a firesale... he has not hesitated to speak his mind about the Hawks.. when he criticizes the team for not developing Dach properly, you know his give a Saperlipopette meter is close to zero... I think the guy just wants to play on a competitive team |
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Post by folatre on Feb 17, 2023 16:27:08 GMT -5
Even if Kane was playing well, I really do not see why the Leafs would make it a priority to acquire him. Toronto does not need a boost on the power play. Toronto does not need an infusion of skill. I was telling my brother-in-law the other day that Barbashev, O'Reilly, and rugged d-man in the Muzzin mold would add elements the Leafs do not presently have. He told me yeah but guys have to skate well and play a puck possession style in order to be the right fit. I thought to myself, how is that finesse puck possession thing working out in the playoffs the last six years?
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Post by Cranky on Feb 17, 2023 18:03:58 GMT -5
It's seems like it's decades, possibly EONS since we last talked about Dubois....  |
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 18, 2023 2:06:49 GMT -5
It's seems like it's decades, possibly EONS since we last talked about Dubois.... Probably just as well as I saw him take consecutive penalties against CBJ within 4 minutes of each other the other night leading to a CJB PP goal and a Jets loss. Not saying he wouldn't help us, but it ain't happening anytime soon. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 18, 2023 18:06:12 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy.
Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man.
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 18, 2023 18:16:44 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy. Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man. Agree on both accounts. Sometimes you just need to say f' it and push your chips all in. I think Toronto should trade for Edmundson or that guy on Columbus on D and see what is out there for a goalie. Maybe a Fleury or Allen as insurance. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 18, 2023 18:40:01 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy. Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man. Agree on both accounts. Sometimes you just need to say f' it and push your chips all in. I think Toronto should trade for Edmundson or that guy on Columbus on D and see what is out there for a goalie. Maybe a Fleury or Allen as insurance. Stop giving advice. It's like you want the Leafs to succeed. 😀 I'm quite interested to see how TB & Boston react to this trade. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 18, 2023 18:56:45 GMT -5
Boston has few worthwhile prospects, no second rounders until 2025, but I suppose for the right player they would be willing to part with this year's first round pick because, after all, their guys are really dialed in what could be Bergeron's swan song and Sweeney likely does not want history to judge him as the indecisive GM who sat on his hands instead of loading up.
Tampa has few prospect and way less draft capital to push into the middle of the table than Boston does. But history should tell us that does not mean BriseBois will be passive. Ownership and management live for the total commitment to winning in the here and now. If it requires dealing the 2025 first or a third rounder this year and a second next year then Tampa will probably do it for the right kind of quality gritty playoff style guys.
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 18, 2023 19:00:58 GMT -5
Agree on both accounts. Sometimes you just need to say f' it and push your chips all in. I think Toronto should trade for Edmundson or that guy on Columbus on D and see what is out there for a goalie. Maybe a Fleury or Allen as insurance. Stop giving advice. It's like you want the Leafs to succeed. 😀 I'm quite interested to see how TB & Boston react to this trade. The more they trade away they prospect and draft capital, the weaker they will be in a few years time. That or if they win a cup they can fade back into history again? More likely it is going to be fun to watch the end of season presser after another first round exit lol. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 18, 2023 19:16:18 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy. Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man. I have read reports from a decent hockey evaluator, that the top 10-12 picks this year are above the average for that range in other years. But then....but then...but then..."along came Jones". Ok what he meant that he got the feeling the next 20 picks or so were not as good as the average draft. If that is so (and I'm not sure that's absolutely the case) than a first rounder where TO's pick would land is not that valuable. O'Rielly may indeed be on his last legs, but those are still pretty good legs. He exactly covers the Leafs weaknesses. This was an expensive, but necessary acquisition. Good work by Dubas. Another factoid I came across is that ROR has been extremely unlucky in 1) having wingers converting his passes and 2) have the goalie make stops while he is on the ice. Those 2 things would hurt his stats. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 18, 2023 19:45:19 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy. Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man. I have read reports from a decent hockey evaluator, that the top 10-12 picks this year are above the average for that range in other years. But then....but then...but then..."along came Jones". Ok what he meant that he got the feeling the next 20 picks or so were not as good as the average draft. If that is so (and I'm not sure that's absolutely the case) than a first rounder where TO's pick would land is not that valuable. O'Rielly may indeed be on his last legs, but those are still pretty good legs. He exactly covers the Leafs weaknesses. This was an expensive, but necessary acquisition. Good work by Dubas. Another factoid I came across is that ROR has been extremely unlucky in 1) having wingers converting his passes and 2) have the goalie make stops while he is on the ice. Those 2 things would hurt his stats. Sorry 17, that last paragraph is a reach. My stats are bad because the winger missed my pass & that mean goalie keeps making saves. LOL |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 18, 2023 20:08:19 GMT -5
I think k he was referring to Billington on part 2 making the saves.
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 19, 2023 2:35:37 GMT -5
Boston has few worthwhile prospects, no second rounders until 2025, but I suppose for the right player they would be willing to part with this year's first round pick because, after all, their guys are really dialed in what could be Bergeron's swan song and Sweeney likely does not want history to judge him as the indecisive GM who sat on his hands instead of loading up. Tampa has few prospect and way less draft capital to push into the middle of the table than Boston does. But history should tell us that does not mean BriseBois will be passive. Ownership and management live for the total commitment to winning in the here and now. If it requires dealing the 2025 first or a third rounder this year and a second next year then Tampa will probably do it for the right kind of quality gritty playoff style guys. The reality is that while the Leafs need to cash in while they still have Matthews and Tavares, before the former heads south and the latter fades away as he already has, TB is barely hang in with its vets well past their prime. Similarly, the Bruins are on the cusp of fading away with Bergeron, Krechi and the Rat past their prime and the possibility of losing Pasta. No doubt TB and Bruins will ante up to match the Leafs. Having said that, even with the leafs latest move, they are still weaker than the Bruins and TB when it comes playoff time. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 19, 2023 10:37:33 GMT -5
Winnipeg and Dubois are having great seasons. Cheveldayoff really needs to be super-aggressive regardless of whether Colorado could be the first round opponent. I mean, guys like Scheifele, Wheeler, Dubois, and Hellebyuck are only under club control through next season so this season is truly the season to go all in because unless these guys commit to extensions during the summer, management is basically going to have to trading them because letting most or all of them walk at the end of next season would be crazy. Everyone at the rink this morning was talking the O'Reilly trade. The consensus seems to be that St. Louis got a serious haul for a 32 year old rental having a subpar season. I remember a month ago some Leafs fans were telling me that no way the Blues a first rounder plus for the veteran centre. Look, setting aside the serious draft capital Toronto gave up (because frankly when your a top regular season for half a decade with no playoff success, it is silly to overvalue draft picks), I think Dubas went after the right type of piece. I still think they could also use a big physical top four d-man. I have read reports from a decent hockey evaluator, that the top 10-12 picks this year are above the average for that range in other years. But then....but then...but then..."along came Jones". Ok what he meant that he got the feeling the next 20 picks or so were not as good as the average draft. If that is so (and I'm not sure that's absolutely the case) than a first rounder where TO's pick would land is not that valuable. O'Rielly may indeed be on his last legs, but those are still pretty good legs. He exactly covers the Leafs weaknesses. This was an expensive, but necessary acquisition. Good work by Dubas. Another factoid I came across is that ROR has been extremely unlucky in 1) having wingers converting his passes and 2) have the goalie make stops while he is on the ice. Those 2 things would hurt his stats. We have had our debates regarding how drafts were evaluated years after they occurred. This posted needs a bookmarking for when we draft a third liner #7 overall 😝 |
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Post by folatre on Feb 19, 2023 11:43:43 GMT -5
For sure, there are no guarantees. Kotkaniemi is a talented kid, but now five years into his career it is apparent that he is basically a third liner on winning teams and a passable second liner on bad teams.
The professional evaluators talking about the 2023 draft do seem united is seeing the top 10 or 12 as unusually blessed with high end forward talent. Of course, that does not necessarily mean that Hughes is going to get two future impact players. But all things being equal it should reduce the probability that Montreal ends up with nothing more than a third liner type.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 19, 2023 16:17:20 GMT -5
For sure, there are no guarantees. Kotkaniemi is a talented kid, but now five years into his career it is apparent that he is basically a third liner on winning teams and a passable second liner on bad teams. The professional evaluators talking about the 2023 draft do seem united is seeing the top 10 or 12 as unusually blessed with high end forward talent. Of course, that does not necessarily mean that Hughes is going to get two future impact players. But all things being equal it should reduce the probability that Montreal ends up with nothing more than a third liner type. KK was a last minute addition to the top 3 based on very limited success. Same as Slaf. A recipe for picking players way too high. Which we saw and may see again. Long term, well proven draft picks that put season or seasons together are likely to be picked in their right order rather then "oh my, look at what he did in those games". Having said that, i liked Zadina, who had a better track record and yet, he's a dud too. In my books Tkachuk had a 20 goal tough guy but then, he turns out to be a serious power forward and a leader. KK in my books was 7-9 pick and turns out, that's what he really is. Win some, lose some. Lastly, there could be a vast difference in talent for top picks year to year. Slaf may not even be in the top 5 in 2023. So unless there is a seriously proven talent available, it's not worth destroying a club like Chicago did unless there is certainty that you get that guy. If the lottery does not go in their favor, they are screwed. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 19, 2023 19:20:54 GMT -5
Toews announced that he is still suffering from long Covid. I was never convinced that he was prepared to waive his NTC, but now it is a moot point.
Teams looking for anything more than fourth line help down the middle are in a tight spot. Yes, there could be guys with term on their contract available but those are more complicated trades to pull off because the seller likely has no interest in retaining money and if they do the price for the buyer will be higher.
I know it is not Monahan's fault. I am sure the guy is dying to play hockey. But at this point, eleven weeks since he played in a game, it is unlikely GMs around the league see him as a viable alternative.
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Post by jkr on Feb 19, 2023 19:47:26 GMT -5
That's surprising news about Toews. I know Covid affects people differently but from what I've seen about long Covid recently, it can be extremely debilitating. I'm surprised he can play hockey.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 19, 2023 21:12:09 GMT -5
For sure, there are no guarantees. Kotkaniemi is a talented kid, but now five years into his career it is apparent that he is basically a third liner on winning teams and a passable second liner on bad teams. The professional evaluators talking about the 2023 draft do seem united is seeing the top 10 or 12 as unusually blessed with high end forward talent. Of course, that does not necessarily mean that Hughes is going to get two future impact players. But all things being equal it should reduce the probability that Montreal ends up with nothing more than a third liner type. We can also hope, that besides hitting on our first pick, that a few teams have vastly different opinions than our (correct) ones and a very good prospect falls to us for our Florida pick. Pull a Caufield, in effect. Also, regarding the O'Reilly post above I did indeed phrase that poorly. ROR's defensive stats suffered because Binnington let in goals he should have stopped, and ROR happened to be on the ice more often than one would expect in those situations. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 19, 2023 21:37:23 GMT -5
And Suzuki went 12th or 13th in his draft year. So there is no question that one side of the coin in terms of maximizing returns via the draft depends on other GMs making suboptimal choices. Though of course, the other side of the coin is your own GM and Head of Amateur Scouting being sufficiently astute so as to see the gems from the semi-precious stones.
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