|
|
Post by jkr on Jan 31, 2023 15:42:59 GMT -5
Why wouldn't Vanvouver let teams talk to Horvat? I would think a buyer would offer more for a guy that they know can be locked up long term.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jan 31, 2023 16:30:27 GMT -5
Why wouldn't Vanvouver let teams talk to Horvat? I would think a buyer would offer more for a guy that they know can be locked up long term. If they think he's unlikely to sign anywhere and really wants to be wined and dined, and has insane expectations, they might not want to let teams realize they're only getting him as a rental. Or maybe he wants to play in one of 5 cities, and anyone else would realize he's just stringing them along. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jan 31, 2023 18:51:56 GMT -5
I find it difficult to imagine that Dubois will hit the open market following the 23/24 season. If he doubles down on his intent to leave Winnipeg then he'll be traded this offseason to a team that will sign him long term. Depending on the list of suitors that align with Dubois interests, that will influence the return Winnipeg gets - but the Habs will almost certainly have to trade for him if he's in their plans. But doesn't that situation give you pause? I (and presumably most Hab fans) want players who are committed to the CH and to the city, not guys who say they are and then change their minds. We've seen a few of those. That's why just waiting for Dubois to become a UFA is an uncomplicated decision. If he signs, Wunderbar! We are even better than we were before. If he doesn't sign, it means the commitment is not there and it wouldn't work out and would be disruptive. That strategy costs us nothing. Trading for him costs us assets. Furthermore, we aren't winning anything next year. Why give up something we can use in the future, to improve slightly a year or two before we are contenders? I'm torn on Dubois. I've never been super high on his upside, despite him ticking a lot of boxes in terms of what you'd want out of a center. Are we witnessing him take the next step this season, or will it be an outlier and he's just a 60 point guy? Maybe another reason to wait until next offseason to see if he regresses back to career averages before potentially overpaying in assets and in cap hit. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jan 31, 2023 20:12:05 GMT -5
Why wouldn't Vanvouver let teams talk to Horvat? I would think a buyer would offer more for a guy that they know can be locked up long term. On The Athletic, the writer suggested it was because Horvat's camp might only be interested in certain teams so that would limit the possibilities. If that is indeed the kind of reasoning going on, you know the level of STUPID in that organization is at a toxic level. I concur with you. Who cares who sets up the trade as long as it gets you the maximum value. It's probably a control issue, as it was with Bergie. He just wants control, even if you end up worse off. |
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 1, 2023 8:24:19 GMT -5
Why wouldn't Vanvouver let teams talk to Horvat? I would think a buyer would offer more for a guy that they know can be locked up long term. On The Athletic, the writer suggested it was because Horvat's camp might only be interested in certain teams so that would limit the possibilities. If that is indeed the kind of reasoning going on, you know the level of STUPID in that organization is at a toxic level. I concur with you. Who cares who sets up the trade as long as it gets you the maximum value. It's probably a control issue, as it was with Bergie. He just wants control, even if you end up worse off. Now we are assuming anything coming out of the Vancouver camp this season has a plan and strategy behind it (another Bergie classic). Just look at the Dorrie and Boudreau situations, how they have handled their injured players, and how they have become a total PR mess that is quickly alienating its fan base. I just want this sad sack organization to win some games and move past the Habs for the remainder of the season and then it can go back to rotting away in the purgatory its ownership & management deserve. Good luck with the former 😞. |
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 1, 2023 10:52:55 GMT -5
On The Athletic, the writer suggested it was because Horvat's camp might only be interested in certain teams so that would limit the possibilities. If that is indeed the kind of reasoning going on, you know the level of STUPID in that organization is at a toxic level. I concur with you. Who cares who sets up the trade as long as it gets you the maximum value. It's probably a control issue, as it was with Bergie. He just wants control, even if you end up worse off. Now we are assuming anything coming out of the Vancouver camp this season has a plan and strategy behind it (another Bergie classic). Just look at the Dorrie and Boudreau situations, how they have handled their injured players, and how they have become a total PR mess that is quickly alienating its fan base. I just want this sad sack organization to win some games and move past the Habs for the remainder of the season and then it can go back to rotting away in the purgatory its ownership & management deserve. Good luck with the former 😞. I'd love for Nucks to finish ahead of us, and with their roster they should be way ahead. But at this point they are in full tank mode and will be selling any and all. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 1, 2023 14:18:41 GMT -5
I think hiring Tocchet will have a bit of a bump and unless we get A+ goaltending, we're going to lose a lot. The Canucks have 2 elite players still getting onto the ice, and we don't. Oh, they'll shoot off a few more feet, but I think they still have too much to finish behind us.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 1, 2023 16:18:12 GMT -5
I think hiring Tocchet will have a bit of a bump and unless we get A+ goaltending, we're going to lose a lot. The Canucks have 2 elite players still getting onto the ice, and we don't. Oh, they'll shoot off a few more feet, but I think they still have too much to finish behind us. I think the Nucks have a decent top 6 with beauvillier but that defence is scary... Ethan Bear is on your top pairing... |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 1, 2023 17:27:07 GMT -5
One of my pet peeves is that the trade deadline is always seen as a contender fixer upper. If there is a trade to be made that a team like the Nucks have given up, then you do it.
They are on newly discovered all in rebuilding, we got a full cupboard and the majority wont amount to front liners. On the other hand, their defense looks far beyond "broken and hopeless". We have defensive kids that wont make it with us.
Unfortunately, Boeser has only two years left on his contract but if he had a pending contract year and could be had for a reasonable trade and subsequently money, I' do it.
Yes, i'm waiting for Dubois but ALWAYS look for a good trade. Asset Management 101. Besides, a real trade is worth a million imaginary ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 1, 2023 18:11:02 GMT -5
One of my pet peeves is that the trade deadline is always seen as a contender fixer upper. If there is a trade to be made that a team like the Nucks have given up, then you do it. They are on newly discovered all in rebuilding, we got a full cupboard and the majority wont amount to front liners. On the other hand, their defense looks far beyond "broken and hopeless". We have defensive kids that wont make it with us. Unfortunately, Boeser has only two years left on his contract but if he had a pending contract year and could be had for a reasonable trade and subsequently money, I' do it. Yes, i'm waiting for Dubois but ALWAYS look for a good trade. Asset Management 101. Besides, a real trade is worth a million imaginary ones. Boeser scored 29 goals his second year and hasn’t topped 26 since. I still like him but not at 6.75MM salary for another 2 years and then he’s a UFA. I like deals where you’re getting a good player. Sometimes it’s uncertain if you’re getting a good player but if you do your due diligence, you can hit a homer. Dach is that example. Hughes took a large gamble on him. A 13th overall pick is not chopped liver. But swapping it for a legitimate 3rd overall pick? Assuming you’re right of course. Frank Nazar (that 13th OA pick for Chicago) hasn’t played yet this year, recovering from an injury. Judging the trade is difficult therefore, but Nazar is going to have to be bloody good to improve on what we’ve seen from Dach. But….it was a really big gamble, which seemssto be paying off. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 1, 2023 18:52:57 GMT -5
If Boeser was a year away from UFA and pending 7x7, I would take a chance on him.
Needless to say, I rather have Dubois for 8x8, but that's imaginary today, IF a trade for Boeser was available under those conditions, of course I do it.
Any good management team ALWAYS looks for deals, every day. The minute someone is sacred, it's a potential problem. See the two guys on LTIR. A year or two earlier and we would have 2-3 first rounders for them. Was the finals worth it? Maybe, maybe not. If the choice was trade Weber/Price for 3 first rounders versus the finals that we realistically did not have a chance, then in hindsight, I would rather have the picks.
There is no such thing as too much young talent...
|
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 1, 2023 18:55:52 GMT -5
One of my pet peeves is that the trade deadline is always seen as a contender fixer upper. If there is a trade to be made that a team like the Nucks have given up, then you do it. They are on newly discovered all in rebuilding, we got a full cupboard and the majority wont amount to front liners. On the other hand, their defense looks far beyond "broken and hopeless". We have defensive kids that wont make it with us. Unfortunately, Boeser has only two years left on his contract but if he had a pending contract year and could be had for a reasonable trade and subsequently money, I' do it. Yes, i'm waiting for Dubois but ALWAYS look for a good trade. Asset Management 101. Besides, a real trade is worth a million imaginary ones. Boeser scored 29 goals his second year and hasn’t topped 26 since. I still like him but not at 6.75MM salary for another 2 years and then he’s a UFA. I like deals where you’re getting a good player. Sometimes it’s uncertain if you’re getting a good player but if you do your due diligence, you can hit a homer. Dach is that example. Hughes took a large gamble on him. A 13th overall pick is not chopped liver. But swapping it for a legitimate 3rd overall pick? Assuming you’re right of course. Frank Nazar (that 13th OA pick for Chicago) hasn’t played yet this year, recovering from an injury. Judging the trade is difficult therefore, but Nazar is going to have to be bloody good to improve on what we’ve seen from Dach. But….it was a really big gamble, which seemssto be paying off. For once Bettman is right, tanking to get 6.5% shot at number one instead of 5.5% makes no sense Even if all 8 planets align and we get the %1 pick and the GM gets it right it might not be a Bedard, Crosby Ovechkin lottery. Slavkovsky is better than Yakupov/Wickenheiser but not worth tankinkg for. Winning culture beats Drouin attitude. The new kids on the block put the lazy talented vets to shame. HP knows where to go to get lucky. Josh Anderson is fast as a cheetah, strong as a bull and nearly as smart. Get out of the salary cap hole Bergy put us in and develop slowly. |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 1, 2023 20:35:24 GMT -5
If Boeser was a year away from UFA and pending 7x7, I would take a chance on him. Needless to say, I rather have Dubois for 8x8, but that's imaginary today, IF a trade for Boeser was available under those conditions, of course I do it. Any good management team ALWAYS looks for deals, every day. The minute someone is sacred, it's a potential problem. See the two guys on LTIR. A year or two earlier and we would have 2-3 first rounders for them. Was the finals worth it? Maybe, maybe not. If the choice was trade Weber/Price for 3 first rounders versus the finals that we realistically did not have a chance, then in hindsight, I would rather have the picks. There is no such thing as too much young talent... Then again, fans want championships, owners want consistent mid-level success, if these lead to championships it's a bonus. We know who hires GMs. Also, with the cap, you have to plan ahead. Boeser would be a terrible investment, cap room can be better used. I'd hate to miss out on future deals or waiver claims because we've cornered ourselves. We missed out on Tolvanen because of the Monahan deal. That's fair enough and we sacrificed flexibility for a 1st, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice flexibility for a 1-dimension scorer who seems to be quite a problem at times. |
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 2, 2023 0:32:48 GMT -5
If Boeser was a year away from UFA and pending 7x7, I would take a chance on him. Needless to say, I rather have Dubois for 8x8, but that's imaginary today, IF a trade for Boeser was available under those conditions, of course I do it. Any good management team ALWAYS looks for deals, every day. The minute someone is sacred, it's a potential problem. See the two guys on LTIR. A year or two earlier and we would have 2-3 first rounders for them. Was the finals worth it? Maybe, maybe not. If the choice was trade Weber/Price for 3 first rounders versus the finals that we realistically did not have a chance, then in hindsight, I would rather have the picks. There is no such thing as too much young talent... Then again, fans want championships, owners want consistent mid-level success, if these lead to championships it's a bonus. We know who hires GMs. Also, with the cap, you have to plan ahead. Boeser would be a terrible investment, cap room can be better used. I'd hate to miss out on future deals or waiver claims because we've cornered ourselves. We missed out on Tolvanen because of the Monahan deal. That's fair enough and we sacrificed flexibility for a 1st, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice flexibility for a 1-dimension scorer who seems to be quite a problem at times. I'm with you PTH. Boeser would cost way too much, both in what we'd have to give up and in what it would cost our cap. Perhaps more importantly from my view, I think will is trending to be more like Hoffman in a few years. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 2, 2023 13:29:25 GMT -5
Yes, i'm waiting for Dubois but ALWAYS look for a good trade. Asset Management 101. Besides, a real trade is worth a million imaginary ones. You're hitting on a key point relating to asset management. We have one of the deeper prospect pools out there, without any top-tier prospects. If we do nothing then a bunch of C to B level prospects will die on the vine, with only so many contracts and roster spots to hand out. Moving Romanov was shrewd, recognizing that he's not a top pairing talent and we had equivalent or better options ready to take his place. I don't mind moving pieces from our roster or prospect pool if Hughes and co have done their diligence and determined there's an opportunity to sell high. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 2, 2023 15:47:02 GMT -5
Yes, i'm waiting for Dubois but ALWAYS look for a good trade. Asset Management 101. Besides, a real trade is worth a million imaginary ones. You're hitting on a key point relating to asset management. We have one of the deeper prospect pools out there, without any top-tier prospects. If we do nothing then a bunch of C to B level prospects will die on the vine, with only so many contracts and roster spots to hand out. Moving Romanov was shrewd, recognizing that he's not a top pairing talent and we had equivalent or better options ready to take his place. I don't mind moving pieces from our roster or prospect pool if Hughes and co have done their diligence and determined there's an opportunity to sell high. Bingo. X and Guhle are our top defensive rookies. There are now about 6 a step behind them and they certainly all are not going to make it with us. As an example, Nucks have almost bare cupboard so why not trade up? Boeser is not Dubois but he certainly can score, IF he could of been had for prospects and a spare 1st or second draft choice and IF his signing demands are reasonable, then you do it and figure it out later. I don't buy "think of the future" when it comes to signing high talent. The issue is signing duds and rapidly declining players to long term contracts, not elite level talent in their mid 20s. Right NOW, in terms of high end talent, the only thing we have is a train load of hope we get Bedard and another train load we get Dubois. Chances are that we get nothing and two years from now we wonder if we are Buffalo V2. Whoever graduated is fine but there isn't anything like Dubois, Bedard OR sure fire top 4 and top 6 in our rookie collection. I don't want to be Buffalo... |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 2, 2023 15:58:12 GMT -5
Well, seventeen will love this ....I saw a report on a website (now it could be a total fake news website, hookedonhockey) that says Pierre Lebrun is reporting the Canadiens turned down a first rounder in exchange for Josh Anderson. Strange I haven't seen Lebrun tweet that, so like I said, I'm sceptical of the website Danslescoulisses.com, a decent enough website, has the same story. They tend to blow everything out of proportion, but aren't completely out there making up random crap, either. Apparently NJ, Dallas and Calgary might be interested in Anderson, with NJ wanting a winger signed beyond this season. Danslescoulisses.com used to be a go-to website for accurate info on rumours ... they rarely used to get anything wrong, but I haven't checked them out in quite a while ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 2, 2023 20:24:51 GMT -5
Danslescoulisses.com, a decent enough website, has the same story. They tend to blow everything out of proportion, but aren't completely out there making up random crap, either. Apparently NJ, Dallas and Calgary might be interested in Anderson, with NJ wanting a winger signed beyond this season. Danslescoulisses.com used to be a go-to website for accurate info on rumours ... they rarely used to get anything wrong, but I haven't checked them out in quite a while ... Cheers. Interesting site. He used Google for his English version...or maybe I have Google translate on automatic. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 2, 2023 21:13:18 GMT -5
Boeser can fire the puck and there is no denying he could help a team looking for a guy who can pot 25-30 goals and thus take some pressure off their top guns.
But the tightly cap restrictive world is going to continue into next season (Bettman already said it will be a mere $1 million jump over this season), which makes it hard for Vancouver to find much of a return for a one-dimensional, good (but not elite) goal scorer who will count for $6.65 million against the cap for another two seasons.
And the buyer-beware sign is all the more pronounced because Boeser finds his way to IR too often and seems keen to return to the USA as soon as possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 7, 2023 20:12:55 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs
Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout?
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 7, 2023 22:47:28 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? He looks decent, Willie, but Pittsburgh probably needs him too. Id go for a 2025 first round pick. Just far enough away for the Pens to have aged badly. They don’t have much in the pipeline. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 7, 2023 23:01:32 GMT -5
Montreal can retain on as much as 50 percent on the totality (this season and next season) of Edmundson's contract, but that is it.
Most years at the deadline, the Pens are hunting. But honestly this season I have not heard much aside from Hextall saying something like hey I do not have much room to maneuver and moreover our inconsistency makes it harder to figure out how aggressive to get.
Pittsburgh is really tight for cap space even waiting 3-4 more weeks to pull the trigger. It looks like they would have to move a contract to Montreal or wherever in order to take on Edmundson even with the lighter retained cap hit.
|
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 8, 2023 1:58:19 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? He looks decent, Willie, but Pittsburgh probably needs him too. Id go for a 2025 first round pick. Just far enough away for the Pens to have aged badly. They don’t have much in the pipeline. I agree waiting a year or two for Pitt to fall is wise. I find it interesting that the Pens and Caps are 7th and 8th in the conference, barely holding on to the last 2 playoff spots. I'm not sure they will make it this year but the sun sure is setting on those 2 franchises which had great runs as a result of getting franchise players with first overall picks. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 8, 2023 7:55:12 GMT -5
He looks decent, Willie, but Pittsburgh probably needs him too. Id go for a 2025 first round pick. Just far enough away for the Pens to have aged badly. They don’t have much in the pipeline. I agree waiting a year or two for Pitt to fall is wise. I find it interesting that the Pens and Caps are 7th and 8th in the conference, barely holding on to the last 2 playoff spots. I'm not sure they will make it this year but the sun sure is setting on those 2 franchises which had great runs as a result of getting franchise players with first overall picks. It wasn't just franchise players, they sucked long enough to get guys likemalkin, Letang, Backstrom... |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 8, 2023 13:16:57 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? I think Montreal should target Calgary again. They have Markstrom and Vladar. Both are 3-4 years away from UFA. Which means they’ll have Dustin Wolf rotting in the minors for the duration of his ELC. We can dangle a few things in Calgary’s face that would be enticing to them 1) Josh Anderson 2) Joel Edmundson 3) that convoluted first round pick from the Toffoli trade |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 8, 2023 14:01:55 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? I think Montreal should target Calgary again. They have Markstrom and Vladar. Both are 3-4 years away from UFA. Which means they’ll have Dustin Wolf rotting in the minors for the duration of his ELC. We can dangle a few things in Calgary’s face that would be enticing to them 1) Josh Anderson 2) Joel Edmundson 3) that convoluted first round pick from the Toffoli trade Longwinded discussions on HF have made it clear Calgary doesn't have the cap room for Anderson. And the interest doesn't seem to be there for Edmundson. The convoluted pick is from the Monahan trade, and I'd try and keep our hands out of that cookie jar. The more we wait, the less protection there is on that pick. The upside can be huge if things work out well for us (ie, badly for Calgary). I'd look elsewhere for goaltending help. |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 8, 2023 14:05:12 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? I don't think so. There's a reason Winnipeg traded us Mason and Armia, for us to buy out Mason. If we could trade dead cap, Arizona would be trading for it. |
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Feb 8, 2023 15:22:09 GMT -5
Goalies don't cost much in draft capital. Look what we got for Halak back in the day. Also, they are never drafted high except the odd one here and there. Wait out.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 8, 2023 20:12:15 GMT -5
Read that the Pens might be interested in Edmunson... if so the pens have an interesting goalie prospect Joel Blomqvist could fit in nicely with the Habs Question: can a team trade dead cap like a buyout? He looks decent, Willie, but Pittsburgh probably needs him too. Id go for a 2025 first round pick. Just far enough away for the Pens to have aged badly. They don’t have much in the pipeline. I doubt they'd move their first, even protected. I'd be more tempted to try and get their '24 and '25 second round picks. If they fall apart like they might well do once their top players fall off a cliff, those picks might be near-first rounders. Still, if they want to move their '25 first, top-10 protected, I'm in, since it usually means we get their '26 first (unprotected) if it's top-10.... which might well happen. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 8, 2023 20:26:39 GMT -5
Trading or drafting young goaltenders is a bit of a crapshoot. Primeau was "suppose" to be a decent NHL caliber goaltenders and frankly, I think he's going to be a backup at best.
|
|
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/6F6VF25GCFF2HFJCOITRJSGNPE.jpg)
