Dubois

[habsorbed]

I'm betting PLD will be Mtl property by the end of the summer if not sooner.

Isee Cole was hanging with PLD at the Grand Prix. Hope Cole mentioned how excited he is to play in Mtl for less that $8 million a year and how Habs are building a winner by having reasonable cap hits. PLD may think hgihly of himself and I don't know what other teams will offer PLD but i would not be trading Cole straight up for PLD. Cole will have accomplished much more by the time he is PLD's age. so perhaps PLD ought to use Cole as a gage for his contract. I also see PK was part of the party. Does anyone have any doubt that PK told PLD that there is no better place to play than Mtl? As if PLD doesn't know that already.playing in Mtl

No doubt PLD is basically a FA right now as he can provide Jets with list of teams he's prepared to go to and ultimately Jets aren't going to get anything decent in return unless that team has agreement with PLD for a long term deal. So if PLD doesn't like what's being offered he doesn't agree and that team ain't offering Jets much for a rental. And the Jets can't run the risk of rejecting a team's offer and see PLD's value drop as the season ticks along, not to mention having a disgruntled player on their roster.

While some GMs may offer way more than $8 million, PLD will have to ask himself is the extra money worth playing in that town and their likelihood of success, or is he prepared to give a hometown discount and be the toast of La Belle Province with a Cup.

I'm Liking our chances.

[folatre]

I believe Hughes wants to get something done, but I think he sees the big picture and realizes that a team that finished back to back seasons 32nd and 28th, respectively, in the league standings cannot fixate on a nice though non-elite top six centre. In other words, I imagine Montreal's management will remain engaged until Chevaldayoff decides on which offer to accept, but I do not anticipate anything like a mega-offer.

I would go back to the Trouba situation. Regardless of what you think of Trouba now, when he was traded at age 25, he was widely seen as big RHD who had just consolidated as a top pair guy after a 50 point season. And I get it that Trouba backed the Jets into a corner by saying he would only sign with a club in the New York Metro area, but still Chevaldayoff only got a mid-first rounder and a nice young d-man (Pionk).

[seventeen]

Pionk turned out better than expected and Ville Heinola, the mid first round, is still 22 and put up some good numbers in the AHL 37 points in 48 games and a plus 20 rating. He may have some upside. Trouba is a guy who might end up like Radko Gudas, meeting his Barbashev Waterloo at some point in his career. Someone might do something nasty to him in retribution.

to the point, though, I agree that Hughes has put his best offer in front of Chevy and it is now up to him. I like that approach. The re-signing of Monahan has given Hughes the necessary wiggle room.

[Andrew]

Jun 21, 2023 15:36:14 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Trouba is a guy who might end up like Radko Gudas, meeting his Barbashev Waterloo at some point in his career. Someone might do something nasty to him in retribution.

to the point, though, I agree that Hughes has put his best offer in front of Chevy and it is now up to him. I like that approach. The re-signing of Monahan has given Hughes the necessary wiggle room.

Agree that patience is the name of the game for Hughes, as the price should come down. I imagine that the number of teams is few-to-none that are: 1. On Dubois' list 2. Have need + cap space to add him 3. Are willing to part with the asset mix that Winnipeg is asking. Once Cheveldayoff comes to that realization then maybe Hughes' best offer is palatable.

Also, I'm still pissed about Trouba breaking Armia's ribs last year. There's a long list of players / teams looking for retribution.

[folatre]

I think you are right, Andrew. Pat Brisson did not give Chevaldayoff an ample list of places where his client is willing to sign. So if you assume maybe the list is four or five clubs. How many have a severe cap problem that preclude them from signing Dubois and additionally filling another position which may be of greater need? How many have such a depleted stock of young talents and picks that they cannot possibly meet the Jets' pretensions in a trade?

Trouba jammed up Chevaldayoff pretty hard. Even if Winnipeg and Brisson do not want to admit it this summer, I think Dubois has Chevy jammed up just as bad.

[Cranky]

It's not hard to see who would not need another 8 million center.

Vegas, NJ, Stars, Leafs, Hurricanes, Panthers amongst others.

In theory, if we draft a center, with Dach developing, we could have too many centers, but that is a good problem to have.

There is another picture of Dubois with Savard. He's either signed sealed and not delivered or he's trolling us HARD.

[Skilly]

Jun 21, 2023 16:19:22 GMT -5 Andrew said:

Jun 21, 2023 15:36:14 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Trouba is a guy who might end up like Radko Gudas, meeting his Barbashev Waterloo at some point in his career. Someone might do something nasty to him in retribution.

to the point, though, I agree that Hughes has put his best offer in front of Chevy and it is now up to him. I like that approach. The re-signing of Monahan has given Hughes the necessary wiggle room.

Agree that patience is the name of the game for Hughes, as the price should come down. I imagine that the number of teams is few-to-none that are: 1. On Dubois' list 2. Have need + cap space to add him 3. Are willing to part with the asset mix that Winnipeg is asking. Once Cheveldayoff comes to that realization then maybe Hughes' best offer is palatable.

Also, I'm still pissed about Trouba breaking Armia's ribs last year. There's a long list of players / teams looking for retribution.

The interested teams seem to be Los Angeles, Colorado, Boston, and an outside chance of New Jersey

Notice I didn't put Montreal on the list. According to Pierre Lebrun, the Habs have told Winnipeg they are interested, but have given their best offer. The ball is in Winnipegs court to call Hughes

[habsorbed]

Jun 21, 2023 22:46:56 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Jun 21, 2023 16:19:22 GMT -5 Andrew said:

Agree that patience is the name of the game for Hughes, as the price should come down. I imagine that the number of teams is few-to-none that are: 1. On Dubois' list 2. Have need + cap space to add him 3. Are willing to part with the asset mix that Winnipeg is asking. Once Cheveldayoff comes to that realization then maybe Hughes' best offer is palatable.

Also, I'm still pissed about Trouba breaking Armia's ribs last year. There's a long list of players / teams looking for retribution.

The interested teams seem to be Los Angeles, Colorado, Boston, and an outside chance of New Jersey

Notice I didn't put Montreal on the list. According to Pierre Lebrun, the Habs have told Winnipeg they are interested, but have given their best offer. The ball is in Winnipegs court to call Hughes

It strikes me as odd if Hugo is not engaged in this process. Presumably any team that is interested in PLD has been given permission by Jets to talk long term contract with PLD. That is the first step in this process as Jets will only get maximum return if there is a team that knows they will be able to sign PLD long term. That being the case, HuGo had better be talking to PLD about a contract so they can determine if such a contract is doable and what Mtl is prepared to give up to the Jets to secure PLD. It's possible HuGo did this some time ago with the Jets permission but if I'm Hugo i would want to know from PLD/Brisson what other teams are offering PLD in case I want to match. If HuGo is not engaged at this poiint then it is because they have given PLD a take it or leave it offer some time ago. That approach sounds more like Burgerhead and his ego and not HuGo. Accordingly, I have little doubt that HuGo are in continuos discusiion with PLD and the Jets. That would be the wise approach.

Having said all that, i wonder how this all goes down among the gms. Assuming PLD has told the Jets that after discussions with various teams he has decided he is good to sign with the Habs and another team, LA. Does Chevy call HuGo and say i have a offer from LA of X, Y & Z, do you want to better it. And if that is the case, how does HuGo know that Chevy is being honest? Does HuGo call LA and if so, would LA tell HuGo? I guess it comes down to trusting the other gm or calling their bluff.

[seventeen]

There is a strong element of required trust amongst the GM's. I expect that somewhere along the way, some GM broke that unwritten rule and if so, the cooperation between that GM and the rest would be as good as fish left on the lawn for a few days. You can't play those games without there being consequences.

HuGo has given Chevy his best offer and it probably is as much as they are willing to go. We have options. We also don't want to pay Dubois $8MM per.

While not in Leaf territory, you shouldn't have an excess of your CAP concentrated in one area (forwards, D, Goalies). I'd guess HuGo have numbers for each of those spots and don't want to exceed them. Bergevin was handcuffed by Price and Weber playing well below their contract numbers and the new regime is not making that mistake.

[folatre]

The Kings have no cap space. Colorado and Boston lack enticing picks and prospects to get something this big done.

Fun times for Chevaldayoff this summer.

[Skilly]

Jun 22, 2023 15:09:52 GMT -5 folatre said:

The Kings have no cap space. Colorado and Boston lack enticing picks and prospects to get something this big done.

Fun times for Chevaldayoff this summer.

You don't need cap space in the off season. You can exceed the cap by 10%. Then you have to get under the cap by start of season

[folatre]

For sure, that's right. 10 percent over during the summer.

I get it that Blake does not see Durzi and Vilardi as important pieces that will anyone a Stanley Cup. I would feel the same way. I see both of them as kind of meh. But why would Winnipeg inflate their value when all the signs point to your trading partner trying to pass them off as difference makers when they are no such thing?

I just don't see LA wanting to risk the uncertainty of not paying Korpisalo the $4 or 4.5 per that he will dig in on and demand or better yet getting Hellebuyck in there. Sure, Vegas won with a nobody in net, but this is not necessarily a phenomenon to bank on.

Los Angeles could make Chevaldayoff an offer that he probably would not refuse (and Blake could figure out how to make the cap numbers work), such as Byfield, Durzi, and the Kings 2024 first rounder. But the thorn in this equation is that Los Angeles does not want to give up that much for Dubois and, moreover, they would still have a cap headache regarding how they sign an accomplished NHL goalie and also round out their thin d-corps.

[Andrew]

It appears as though the Dubois ship has sailed (or close to).

[Cranky]

Who is this "Murat Ates"?

If Dubois signs with LA, then he would be ANOTHER piece of **** that used the Habs.

On the other hand, if LA wants to pay him 9x8 or more, they are idiots.

[drkcloud]

If Dubois had really wanted to be a Hab he would have sucked it up for one more year in Winnipeg.
This was about getting out of Winnipeg by acting like a UFA even though he wasn't and cashing in like a Ufa. I hope he toils in obscurity, no personal or team success, and it blows up on LA and handcuffs them for years.
Oh and Bergevin can suck it too

[jkr]

Jun 25, 2023 14:09:35 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Who is this "Murat Ates"?

If Dubois signs with LA, then he would be ANOTHER piece of **** that used the Habs.

On the other hand, if LA wants to pay him 9x8 or more, they are idiots.

Ates is the Jets writer for Thd Athletic.

I guess we can put Dubois down with aholes lik Shanahan and Brett Hull that screwed with the Habs to bump their offers from other teams.

[habsorbed]

If the rumours are true he's looking at $8.7 x 8. That's a million more over 8 years that he wasn't getting from HuGo. Hometown discounts are nice but $8 million is a lot of Jake. Also, PDL might be a little choked that Hugo was willing to wait a year and not give anything up. Have you been to Winnipeg?

Anyway, probably just as well. Much rather take my chances with Dach, much higher upside, and PLD's attitude is a concern. PLD is not a first line centre and Dach might be. And poor Danny Boy - looks like he will be relegated th 3C behind Kopitar and PLD.

[Cranky]

If Ates is a Jets writer, could be misinfo to put pressure on the Habs.

Let's see...

[Boston_Habs]

Seems the Kings have more to give in terms of players and prospects than Montreal and they aren’t willing to part with Dach.

If we lose out on PLD and pass on Michkov…..

[folatre]

Time will say what the pieces in the trade are. But if Chevaldayoff is basically dealing Dubois for Iafallo and Vilardi, then my summary of the whole affair is that the market for Dubois was a lot softer than expected. For starters, if Vilardi is really a top six impact-type player, then why doesn't Rob Blake just get Vilardi signed (I am sure he would take 5 years in the $4-4.5 AAV range) and have money left over to get a goalie. And Iafallo is meh, a 30 year old third liner who in a good year can give you 15-20 goals and 40 points.

[jkr]

If Dach was the asking price than I'm glad it fell through.

The Kings have Kopitar ( I know hes almost 36) & Danault. I know Kopitar will finish up his deal this season but shouldn't they be focused on a goalie?

[Skilly]

Jun 25, 2023 16:22:52 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

If the rumours are true he's looking at $8.7 x 8. That's a million more over 8 years that he wasn't getting from HuGo. Hometown discounts are nice but $8 million is a lot of Jake. Also, PDL might be a little choked that Hugo was willing to wait a year and not give anything up. Have you been to Winnipeg?

Anyway, probably just as well. Much rather take my chances with Dach, much higher upside, and PLD's attitude is a concern. PLD is not a first line centre and Dach might be. And poor Danny Boy - looks like he will be relegated th 3C behind Kopitar and PLD.

There are going to be a lot of upset Habs fans when they see the deal and the contract.

$8.7 million is way less than what anyone on here was speculating. Anyone of us would have paid PLD between 8-9 million

The return? You can point to some of the posts on here from when I first stated it was looking to be the Kings that were close to getting him. The price is likely going to be LA's first rounder, Iafallo, Vilardi, and prospects for Dubois and Harkins. Montreal could have matched that easily if they were willing to part with Harris. (Anderson, Harris, Roy for example, with the Florida first rounder) ...

Some will say Anderson has a NTC ... he has an 8 team no trade clause. And there is ZERO chance L.A is on that list.

Harris offsets the difference in our first rounder vs theirs ..


Now, do we want PLD, or do we want him on the cheap or for free? Cause ifs it's door #2, then we don't have PLD because of the Habs ineptitude and cheapness.

[Andrew]

Jun 25, 2023 18:07:10 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Jun 25, 2023 16:22:52 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

If the rumours are true he's looking at $8.7 x 8. That's a million more over 8 years that he wasn't getting from HuGo. Hometown discounts are nice but $8 million is a lot of Jake. Also, PDL might be a little choked that Hugo was willing to wait a year and not give anything up. Have you been to Winnipeg?

Anyway, probably just as well. Much rather take my chances with Dach, much higher upside, and PLD's attitude is a concern. PLD is not a first line centre and Dach might be. And poor Danny Boy - looks like he will be relegated th 3C behind Kopitar and PLD.

There are going to be a lot of upset Habs fans when they see the deal and the contract.

$8.7 million is way less than what anyone on here was speculating. Anyone of us would have paid PLD between 8-9 million

The return? You can point to some of the posts on here from when I first stated it was looking to be the Kings that were close to getting him. The price is likely going to be LA's first rounder, Iafallo, Vilardi, and prospects for Dubois and Harkins. Montreal could have matched that easily if they were willing to part with Harris. (Anderson, Harris, Roy for example, with the Florida first rounder) ...

Some will say Anderson has a NTC ... he has an 8 team no trade clause. And there is ZERO chance L.A is on that list.

Harris offsets the difference in our first rounder vs theirs ..


Now, do we want PLD, or do we want him on the cheap or for free? Cause ifs it's door #2, then we don't have PLD because of the Habs ineptitude and cheapness.

I think that the element Montreal is lacking is a young coat-controlled center that the Jets could plug into their lineup in a middle six role, to fill the Dubois void. If Dvorak had a bit more offense and was a couple of years younger he’d get the deal done. Ironically if we still had KK he’d probably fit the bill for winnipeg. The only match we have for Winnipeg’s key requirement is Dach.

[Cranky]

Dach has the same ceiling as Dubois, younger and more cost controlled.

That's a huge NO unless Jets were throwing in their 1st.

I wanted Dubois 3 years ago but ONLY if we can get him cheap. At this point, I'll wave goodbye...but remember that all this can be smoke and mirrors.

Until the deal is announced, mis and disinformation is on the menu.

[jkr]

Its not ineptitude to hang on to Dach. I haven't seen anyone here say they would include him in a Dubois deal.

I haven't seen any comments on this from Lebrun, Dreger, Friedman.

And as Cranky says, lets wait for the details instead of commenting on the speculation.

[Boston_Habs]

I don’t know. Flipping Dach for Dubois makes a lot of sense as a hockey trade, just maybe not now.

HuGo may not be ready to push some chips to the middle of the table but eventually they are going to have to. I’ve been saying for a while that drafting and developing will never be enough. Whether it’s a trade or a big contract these guys are going to have to take risks to move this franchise into the top tier.

Is it too early to trade Dach for Dubois? Are we that confident Dach can be as good? Maybe we’d be selling high on Dach.

I’m not saying I’d do it, mostly because I generally hate lateral moves, but as a fan I’m getting impatient and on paper it’s a fair trade.

[seventeen]

Jun 25, 2023 19:50:28 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

I don’t know. Flipping Dach for Dubois makes a lot of sense as a hockey trade, just maybe not now.

HuGo may not be ready to push some chips to the middle of the table but eventually they are going to have to. I’ve been saying for a while that drafting and developing will never be enough. Whether it’s a trade or a big contract these guys are going to have to take risks to move this franchise into the top tier.

Is it too early to trade Dach for Dubois? Are we that confident Dach can be as good? Maybe we’d be selling high on Dach.

I’m saying I’d do it, mostly because I generally hate lateral moves, but as a fan I’m getting impatient and on paper it’s a fair trade.

Dach's 2nd and 3rd years were wasted by a wrist injury and poor development by Chicago. Rookie year, put up .36 ppg; in year 2, his first 18 games before the wrist injury at the world juniours he put up .53 ppg; then he had the crappy year, recovering from his wrist injury which took a long time and was relegated by Hawks management because of that. Then in his first year with us, he puts up .66 ppg and we had a pathetic PP. That looks like a very good progression to me. As good as Dubois? No. He'll be better. He needs to work on face-offs of course, but if that's his only weakness, give me a bunch like him. I think he'll mature a bit more and put even more beef on that frame. He could be a lot like Kopitar and I'm not giving up on that.

[habsorbed]

Jun 25, 2023 18:07:10 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Jun 25, 2023 16:22:52 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

If the rumours are true he's looking at $8.7 x 8. That's a million more over 8 years that he wasn't getting from HuGo. Hometown discounts are nice but $8 million is a lot of Jake. Also, PDL might be a little choked that Hugo was willing to wait a year and not give anything up. Have you been to Winnipeg?

Anyway, probably just as well. Much rather take my chances with Dach, much higher upside, and PLD's attitude is a concern. PLD is not a first line centre and Dach might be. And poor Danny Boy - looks like he will be relegated th 3C behind Kopitar and PLD.

There are going to be a lot of upset Habs fans when they see the deal and the contract.

$8.7 million is way less than what anyone on here was speculating. Anyone of us would have paid PLD between 8-9 million

The return? You can point to some of the posts on here from when I first stated it was looking to be the Kings that were close to getting him. The price is likely going to be LA's first rounder, Iafallo, Vilardi, and prospects for Dubois and Harkins. Montreal could have matched that easily if they were willing to part with Harris. (Anderson, Harris, Roy for example, with the Florida first rounder) ...

Some will say Anderson has a NTC ... he has an 8 team no trade clause. And there is ZERO chance L.A is on that list.

Harris offsets the difference in our first rounder vs theirs ..


Now, do we want PLD, or do we want him on the cheap or for free? Cause ifs it's door #2, then we don't have PLD because of the Habs ineptitude and cheapness.

Problem is HuGo ain't giving PLD more than Suze, and i don't blame them. So that is the dealbreaker. I don't see this as a matter of what Jets want but what PLD wants and HuGo will pay. HuGo will some day pay a player more than Suze and maybe soon if the guy's a stud. But PLD ain't that so if PLD wants more than Suze, move on!

Basically PLD has a NMC as Chevy will only get a decent return from a team that knows they can sign PLD long term. If PLD can agree to terms with LA, then the rest of the dominoes will fall. Same if he would rather Mtl.

[seventeen]

If Dubois had put up 90 points in his 73 games last year, he might command a higher contract than Suzuki and I think Nick would understand. Suzuki had 3 more points, in 11 more games, but playing for a decimated team. It doesn't equate, paying PLD more than $8MM.

It'll be interesting, assuming the rumour is right, to see what PLD's number ends up being. As of now,LA has $9,036,666 in CAP space.

[Willie Dog]

Jun 25, 2023 20:46:12 GMT -5 seventeen said:

If Dubois had put up 90 points in his 73 games last year, he might command a higher contract than Suzuki and I think Nick would understand. Suzuki had 3 more points, in 11 more games, but playing for a decimated team. It doesn't equate, paying PLD more than $8MM.

Add to that Cole played 46 games before being on IR for the rest of the season... how many more points would Suze have gotten if Cole played the full season?