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Post by Cranky on Jun 5, 2024 11:46:42 GMT -5
Then we grab Levshunov and thank the Hockey God's. If we don't want to keep him, there is going to be a lineup willingly to trade substantial young assets to get him. Or we keep him and create the New Ministry Of Defense. BPA is the only way... If we get Levshunov, I’ll be ok with Hugo wasting the rest of our draft picks on players out of the garage league that I play in. And I would still consider it an A+ draft. I know that Levshunov and Buium are highly ranked, but I still feel like they are being slept on a bit. Levshunov basically put up the same freshman numbers as Jonathan Toews, and Buium basically put up the same numbers as Hutson. Both players way outproduced Owen Powers and Quinn Hughes. I also remember at the WJC looking for Hutson’s #20 jersey hoping to see him impress. Whenever I would spot him i would think he looked amazing and efficient out there. But time and again I would realize that I’m blind and it was really #28, Buium the underager, that I was impressed by. If we take either of these guys they immediately become our top prospect in the system imo. This draft is a bit funny to me. There are so many prospects who had historically good seasons that don’t really seem to be getting as much love as some lesser guys from previous drafts. Off the top of my head, Buium, Catton, Demidov, Parekh, Yakemchuk, Eiserman, Lindstrom… based on numbers alone, I would have thought each of them could be in the conversation for #2 after Celebrini. I would say at least in most draft years they would be top 5 candidates without question. Granted I haven’t seen all these guys play yet, but this strikes me as an excellent draft in the top 15 or so. I agree that is why I keep saying this draft is deadly. It can be a waste or a boon. Too many players are getting the KK instant karma drafting pedigree while high quality prospects drift down the popularity poll. I see players like Catton/Iggy as top 10, NOT top 5. Yet here we are with off the board love for top 5. It should be crystal clear that in no universe we pick on need if a top 5 is there. Last year there was no question on the top 5 picks, which included Michkov, yet we pick Reinbacher. This year, too much talk on need. Hughes should close his eyes and pick the BPA and it's Levs, PICK HIM. It really is a no brainer. BTW..even if they pick Levs, there is no hope the Habs draft you...sorry.  |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 5, 2024 15:28:28 GMT -5
If we get Levshunov, I’ll be ok with Hugo wasting the rest of our draft picks on players out of the garage league that I play in. And I would still consider it an A+ draft. I know that Levshunov and Buium are highly ranked, but I still feel like they are being slept on a bit. Levshunov basically put up the same freshman numbers as Jonathan Toews, and Buium basically put up the same numbers as Hutson. Both players way outproduced Owen Powers and Quinn Hughes. I also remember at the WJC looking for Hutson’s #20 jersey hoping to see him impress. Whenever I would spot him i would think he looked amazing and efficient out there. But time and again I would realize that I’m blind and it was really #28, Buium the underager, that I was impressed by. If we take either of these guys they immediately become our top prospect in the system imo. This draft is a bit funny to me. There are so many prospects who had historically good seasons that don’t really seem to be getting as much love as some lesser guys from previous drafts. Off the top of my head, Buium, Catton, Demidov, Parekh, Yakemchuk, Eiserman, Lindstrom… based on numbers alone, I would have thought each of them could be in the conversation for #2 after Celebrini. I would say at least in most draft years they would be top 5 candidates without question. Granted I haven’t seen all these guys play yet, but this strikes me as an excellent draft in the top 15 or so. I agree that is why I keep saying this draft is deadly. It can be a waste or a boon. Too many players are getting the KK instant karma drafting pedigree while high quality prospects drift down the popularity poll. I see players like Catton/Iggy as top 10, NOT top 5. Yet here we are with off the board love for top 5. It should be crystal clear that in no universe we pick on need if a top 5 is there. Last year there was no question on the top 5 picks, which included Michkov, yet we pick Reinbacher. This year, too much talk on need. Hughes should close his eyes and pick the BPA and it's Levs, PICK HIM. It really is a no brainer. BTW..even if they pick Levs, there is no hope the Habs draft you...sorry. I disagree...not because you don't pick BPA, it's because no one know who the BPA is. The draft rankings are all over the board and everyone has a different list. Last year everyone knew who 1 to 4 were. This year no one knows if Demdiov is even number 2. That's why this draft is crazy to predict. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 5, 2024 15:47:14 GMT -5
None of us, except maybe a couple, have viewed enough games of the projected top guys to know who truly is the BPA, and even then, personal preferences come into play. That's why the Habs have numerous scouts and why they try to overlap in looking at players and then have the big debate. That gives them a better than even chance they will pick the 'right' guy. And even then, we truly won't know for 6 or 7 years if they were right. It's not a crap shoot, but it is a probability contest.
Teams pick for need. It's a fact and if you're building a team, it's not necessarily a bad thing. KK is the clear example of what happens when this goes wrong. Many fans say "Why didn't we pick Tkachuk?". Well, Tkachuk has led his team to six consecutive years of missing the playoffs. At least KK contributed to one SC final run (which, yes, involved a lot of luck, but still ended up in the finals) and who knows where we'd be if he had the benefit of the development group we have today. Bergevin didn't and I doubt el cheapo Dundon has a development arm either. The Habs were desperate for a centre and they picked the best one available. It didn't turn out well and Quinn Hughes would have been their best choice at that point, but then we wouldn't have drafted Hutson.
As a final point, I hope we bring some balance to David Reinbacher. He's being compared to the other choices available at 5 after a year in which he faced all kinds of issues, including a correctable, genetic knee problem. We haven't seen nearly the best of him, and fans keep looking at Michkov (playing in a weakened KHL), and Leonard (playing in a weaker NCAA). Reinbacher is the type of guy who excels when playing with guys who have a similar hockey IQ to himself. We know how we undervalued Slaf after his D+1 year and I fear the same thing is happening to Reinbacher. The Swiss NL has gotten much stronger with the 50% increase in foreign players allowed (which came after the exodus of North American and Euro players from the KHL). They're not quite at the Swedish SEL level, but it's close. Swiss teams are much more competitive than they used to be in International play. If you can play well in the NL, even on a tire fire like Kloten, you have to be good. He had a difficult year last year. It doesn't mean he's not going to be one hell of a defenseman. If you asked me for my opinion of Slafkovsky in September or even November of last year, I would have said that I was really worried that he was going to end up a bad pick and maybe Nemec was better. Today, I think he might be another Jagr. Let's see Reinbacher with real NHL players before we pass judgment
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Post by seventeen on Jun 5, 2024 15:50:02 GMT -5
I disagree...not because you don't pick BPA, it's because no one know who the BPA is. The draft rankings are all over the board and everyone has a different list. Last year everyone knew who 1 to 4 were. This year no one knows if Demdiov is even number 2. That's why this draft is crazy to predict. That's always a true point. I believe Cranky was making a point that because there's so much disparity in valuations, that you might draft a difference maker or a bust and there's no way to know. The opportunity is here, even with a 26th pick, and we have to hope this is yet another good draft year. At least that's how I read it. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Jun 5, 2024 17:27:43 GMT -5
None of us, except maybe a couple, have viewed enough games of the projected top guys to know who truly is the BPA, and even then, personal preferences come into play. That's why the Habs have numerous scouts and why they try to overlap in looking at players and then have the big debate. That gives them a better than even chance they will pick the 'right' guy. And even then, we truly won't know for 6 or 7 years if they were right. It's not a crap shoot, but it is a probability contest. Teams pick for need. It's a fact and if you're building a team, it's not necessarily a bad thing. KK is the clear example of what happens when this goes wrong. Many fans say "Why didn't we pick Tkachuk?". Well, Tkachuk has led his team to six consecutive years of missing the playoffs. At least KK contributed to one SC final run (which, yes, involved a lot of luck, but still ended up in the finals) and who knows where we'd be if he had the benefit of the development group we have today. Bergevin didn't and I doubt el cheapo Dundon has a development arm either. The Habs were desperate for a centre and they picked the best one available. It didn't turn out well and Quinn Hughes would have been their best choice at that point, but then we wouldn't have drafted Hutson. As a final point, I hope we bring some balance to David Reinbacher. He's being compared to the other choices available at 5 after a year in which he faced all kinds of issues, including a correctable, genetic knee problem. We haven't seen nearly the best of him, and fans keep looking at Michkov (playing in a weakened KHL), and Leonard (playing in a weaker NCAA). Reinbacher is the type of guy who excels when playing with guys who have a similar hockey IQ to himself. We know how we undervalued Slaf after his D+1 year and I fear the same thing is happening to Reinbacher. The Swiss NL has gotten much stronger with the 50% increase in foreign players allowed (which came after the exodus of North American and Euro players from the KHL). They're not quite at the Swedish SEL level, but it's close. Swiss teams are much more competitive than they used to be in International play. If you can play well in the NL, even on a tire fire like Kloten, you have to be good. He had a difficult year last year. It doesn't mean he's not going to be one hell of a defenseman. If you asked me for my opinion of Slafkovsky in September or even November of last year, I would have said that I was really worried that he was going to end up a bad pick and maybe Nemec was better. Today, I think he might be another Jagr. Let's see Reinbacher with real NHL players before we pass judgment Regarding draft philosophy and some comments above I found this previous article relevant and interesting: Wadell's draft philosophy |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 5, 2024 17:47:15 GMT -5
That's always a true point. I believe Cranky was making a point that because there's so much disparity in valuations, that you might draft a difference maker or a bust and there's no way to know. The opportunity is here, even with a 26th pick, and we have to hope this is yet another good draft year. At least that's how I read it. I agree with what I said.... |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 6, 2024 12:08:36 GMT -5
I disagree...not because you don't pick BPA, it's because no one know who the BPA is. The draft rankings are all over the board and everyone has a different list. Last year everyone knew who 1 to 4 were. This year no one knows if Demdiov is even number 2. That's why this draft is crazy to predict. We agree that is why I keep saying that it can be a bust or a boon. I like the Sennecke. He's NOT top 10 but he isn't much different then Lindstrome in value. One is a straight away bull that may not amount to as much as we think when he plays with other bulls that hit back. The other is a Zegras level puck handler that may or may not translate to a top 6 player. Who do you pick with the precious top 5 pick? What I argue is that if Levs is there, forget EVERYTHING and pick him. Same thing for Demidov. They are LIKELY to be a safer bets then going off the board to pick what we need. If they develop, there is plenty of time to trade them for our hard needs in the next 2-3 years. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 6, 2024 13:49:52 GMT -5
We agree that is why I keep saying that it can be a bust or a boon. I like the Sennecke. He's NOT top 10 but he isn't much different then Lindstrome in value. One is a straight away bull that may not amount to as much as we think when he plays with other bulls that hit back. The other is a Zegras level puck handler that may or may not translate to a top 6 player. Who do you pick with the precious top 5 pick? What I argue is that if Levs is there, forget EVERYTHING and pick him. Same thing for Demidov. They are LIKELY to be a safer bets then going off the board to pick what we need. If they develop, there is plenty of time to trade them for our hard needs in the next 2-3 years. I could see the Habs reasoning for picking Sennecke as follows: Much like the Slafkovsky choice, Bobrov kept making the point that you have to imagine what the guy will be like at age 23 and not what he is today. I watched Sennecke at some international tournament at least a year ago if not longer and I really can't recall a great deal about him. He wasn't the top guy on the team, but there was some discussion about him. My impressions were positive, but not like they are about Catton, but then again that was over a year ago and he hadn't put on that growth spurt again. He was average in size for that age. That's the extent of my personal viewing of Sennecke. I have seen some recent highlight video and like most highlight videos, they show almost all positive, offensive sides of his game. If I read the comments about him correctly, he is an excellent stickhandler. His hands are described as extremely good, by all the pundits. What I believe the Habs braintrust are thinking, is that if he still has the skills he developed as a smaller player, who has to survive that way, and suddenly grows 5" or whatever the number is, that he's going to grow into a Slaf sized guy, while having great hands, good shot, excellent vision (which he has) etc. They are projecting that he's going to become a dominating force, and that has them wondering. Sometimes you have to take risks. If Demidov is there, I think it makes that decision really difficult. On The Sick Podcast, Grant McCagg and Marinaro were talking about the top prospects and the Combine. One thing McCagg was really curious about (as am I) is what Demidov's actual height and weight were. The figures floating around vary a lot, from 5' 11' to 6', 1". As you can imagine, a 6' 1" Demidov is a slam dunk while a 5' 11" Demidov might make you hesitate if you believe that you need size in the playoffs. Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading about the combine, the interviews, etc. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 6, 2024 16:26:04 GMT -5
Sennecke is NHL ranked at 15th.
If the hockey gods really love us, they leave Demidov or Levs at 5 and we trade out two late first plus extra defenseman for 15th and Sennecke.
I will get religion...because we just took one giant leap up the "future contenders" poll.
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Post by folatre on Jun 6, 2024 17:18:09 GMT -5
I would be sour if Hughes passes on Demidov or Levshunov at #5. However, I just do not see how two teams (Chicago and Anaheim) really needing a top pair RHD and an elite offensive dynamo winger would not snap those kids up. And even if Davidson or Verbeek do something mildly surprising, I would think Columbus would be happy to pick either kid.
I have seen a lot of rankings and mock drafts where Sennecke is solidifying in the 10-12 range because a skilled center with an intriguing ceiling naturally draws interest. I would like to get him or Eiserman in that range, but there is no way Winnipeg's first plus someone like Harris or Barron would get it done. We have to keep in mind the consensus among scouts in that there is a significant drop off after the top 15-20.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 6, 2024 18:32:09 GMT -5
I don't think that 26th alone gets him or a throw in extra. More like Matheson and 26th and possibly next year late 1st.
If Levs or Demidov is there at 5th, it doesn't matter who we pick after. IF we can also pick Sennecke...IF....
Sennecke kid remind me of a guy who I hated seeing playing against us and his uniform....Jason Spezza. The guy could stick handle through a WalMart Black Friday sale...
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Post by Cranky on Jun 6, 2024 21:17:38 GMT -5
Lindstrome is not participating in all the Combine events. I wonder why...  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 6, 2024 21:24:46 GMT -5
Lindstrome is not participating in all the Combine events. I wonder why... Very concerning |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 6, 2024 23:26:36 GMT -5
Lindstrome is not participating in all the Combine events. I wonder why... He's doing upper body stuff, but not lower body. Something like that. Demidov is doing nothing, isn't even there. Sennecke is limited if not doing nothing. All to do with injuries and likely under the advice of their agents. Demidov is still recovering from a knee injury which isn't supposed to be serious, Lindstrom has his back thing, Sennecke supposedly had a concussion. There's a ton of speculation out there and the general public isn't getting anything concrete. All my stuff is what I hear from people I follow who usually have decent information and if they don't, they admit it. This is really one of those years where Uncertainty is spelled in capital letters. Lot of opportunity, lots of risk. Let's hope Lapointe and Bobrov nail it. It would sure be nice to have 2 picks in the top 15. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 7, 2024 1:25:39 GMT -5
Lindstrome is not participating in all the Combine events. I wonder why... He's doing upper body stuff, but not lower body. Something like that. Demidov is doing nothing, isn't even there. Sennecke is limited if not doing nothing. All to do with injuries and likely under the advice of their agents. Demidov is still recovering from a knee injury which isn't supposed to be serious, Lindstrom has his back thing, Sennecke supposedly had a concussion. There's a ton of speculation out there and the general public isn't getting anything concrete. All my stuff is what I hear from people I follow who usually have decent information and if they don't, they admit it. This is really one of those years where Uncertainty is spelled in capital letters. Lot of opportunity, lots of risk. Let's hope Lapointe and Bobrov nail it. It would sure be nice to have 2 picks in the top 15. There are two forwards with no injury questions or Russian army concerns. If size is really an issue Eiserman is 6’ and 196 lbs solid and can score. If skating is the issue Catton is lightning and can score. Don’t care if they are ranked twelfth or higher. If we want them pick up at fifth. Not like our power play couldn’t use help. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 7, 2024 2:16:23 GMT -5
If Sennecke had a concussion. I can aee why. I'm sporting one from my love encounter with the light pole and no fast spins or sudden moves. First one in 53 years and the doc said that it can take weeks to months to go way. Day 3, no symptoms whatsover from day one other then fast head movements. I can't imagine any rigirous activity for a while.
And here i was, ready for the combines...
As for Lindstrome, if he claims "medical privacy" on his injury and does not disclose the extend of his back injury, i wouldn't draft him in the 20th round.
I said it 99 times that if he has a spinal injury then it's like broken glass, it may heal for a while but come right back, particularly playing a rough type game against Neanderthals.
Remember Eichel? Now try to think what his value will be before he even makes it yo the NHL.
Can this draft be loaded with any more uncertaintly and pit falls?
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 7, 2024 11:19:00 GMT -5
If Sennecke had a concussion. I can aee why. I'm sporting one from my love encounter with the light pole and no fast spins or sudden moves. First one in 53 years and the doc said that it can take weeks to months to go way. Day 3, no symptoms whatsover from day one other then fast head movements. I can't imagine any rigirous activity for a while. And here i was, ready for the combines... As for Lindstrome, if he claims "medical privacy" on his injury and does not disclose the extend of his back injury, i wouldn't draft him in the 20th round. I said it 99 times that if he has a spinal injury then it's like broken glass, it may heal for a while but come right back, particularly playing a rough type game against Neanderthals. Remember Eichel? Now try to think what his value will be before he even makes it yo the NHL. Can this draft be loaded with any more uncertaintly and pit falls? I’m going to be in the Sphere in Las Vegas for the first day of the draft. Hope the camera doesn’t capture my horrified expression when Hugo goes off the charts with the first pick. Anyone else might be there? |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 7, 2024 12:10:41 GMT -5
If Sennecke had a concussion. I can aee why. I'm sporting one from my love encounter with the light pole and no fast spins or sudden moves. First one in 53 years and the doc said that it can take weeks to months to go way. Day 3, no symptoms whatsover from day one other then fast head movements. I can't imagine any rigirous activity for a while. And here i was, ready for the combines... As for Lindstrome, if he claims "medical privacy" on his injury and does not disclose the extend of his back injury, i wouldn't draft him in the 20th round. I said it 99 times that if he has a spinal injury then it's like broken glass, it may heal for a while but come right back, particularly playing a rough type game against Neanderthals. Remember Eichel? Now try to think what his value will be before he even makes it yo the NHL. Can this draft be loaded with any more uncertaintly and pit falls? I’m going to be in the Sphere in Las Vegas for the first day of the draft. Hope the camera doesn’t capture my horrified expression when Hugo goes off the charts with the first pick. Anyone else might be there? Wish I was there... don't look like this Attachments:
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Post by Cranky on Jun 7, 2024 13:24:05 GMT -5
She was absolitely right. I thought that from stats and reading about Tkachuk and Zedina, they were far ahead of Johnny Come Lately Kk. I was not horrified but pretty suprised. Without the benefit of actually scouting these guys, my first choice was Zadina then Tkachuk. Tkachuk would of been my first choice if the interview went the right direction. This draft? This is big league due diligence. The entire scouting staff needs to work on overdrive to make sure they cover every inch of the top 5 and then triple work on any off the board moves. I trust Hughes...a bit...but he's human and hopefully does not fall into a "favorite" without due cause/justification. A bad move wont cripple us but it will set us back. We need more offense and this is our last chance to pick this high. Unless of course we want to live in purgatory until we pick them right. Fingers crossed.... |
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Post by Andrew on Jun 7, 2024 14:19:00 GMT -5
I think that it's as much of a given that Levshunov goes top 4 as it is that Celebrini goes top 4, so that leaves 2 other players to be picked before Montreal. I can imagine scenarios in which teams are fixated on players other than Demidov in those 2 spots. Maybe a team has visions of Silayev being the next Chara. Maybe a GM sees Lindstrom as the next star power forward in the NHL, and a guy that will lead their team through the playoffs. Not much would surprise me after Celebrini and Levshunov, so I'm holding out hope that Demidov is there for us.
Otherwise I'll be neither overly excited or disappointed with any of the likely candidates of Lindstrom, Catton, Iginla or Sennecke. Depending on the day of the week, or what report I've read, I'll alternate between that crop of prospects as my preferred pick.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 7, 2024 15:57:44 GMT -5
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Post by IamCanadiens on Jun 7, 2024 16:53:03 GMT -5
If Tij has his father's character, that supper will result in the Habs drafting him if he is available.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 8, 2024 9:32:02 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 8, 2024 13:28:18 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2024 17:13:35 GMT -5
If Tij has his father's character, that supper will result in the Habs drafting him if he is available. The last 2 guys the Habs drafted with their first pick weren’t taken out to dinner. 😳 |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Jun 8, 2024 17:46:21 GMT -5
If Tij has his father's character, that supper will result in the Habs drafting him if he is available. The last 2 guys the Habs drafted with their first pick weren’t taken out to dinner. 😳 The Habs didn't take anyone out to dinner last year and they talked to Slaf a lot the previous year so they already knew his character. They may have dropped the ball on their table manner though. THE HORROR! |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 8, 2024 18:01:13 GMT -5
If Sennecke had a concussion. I can aee why. I'm sporting one from my love encounter with the light pole and no fast spins or sudden moves. First one in 53 years and the doc said that it can take weeks to months to go way. Day 3, no symptoms whatsover from day one other then fast head movements. I can't imagine any rigirous activity for a while. And here i was, ready for the combines... As for Lindstrome, if he claims "medical privacy" on his injury and does not disclose the extend of his back injury, i wouldn't draft him in the 20th round. I said it 99 times that if he has a spinal injury then it's like broken glass, it may heal for a while but come right back, particularly playing a rough type game against Neanderthals. Remember Eichel? Now try to think what his value will be before he even makes it yo the NHL. Can this draft be loaded with any more uncertaintly and pit falls? I’m going to be in the Sphere in Las Vegas for the first day of the draft. Hope the camera doesn’t capture my horrified expression when Hugo goes off the charts with the first pick. Anyone else might be there? Have a great time, mate ... Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 8, 2024 21:22:02 GMT -5
Depending on the day of the week, or what report I've read, I'll alternate between that crop of prospects as my preferred pick. I've never seen a draft that has as many different player ranking lists, as this one does ... the most consistent consensus is that Macklin Celebrini is the top player in the draft, but after him, there's a plethora of combinations ... and, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, if they were use the #5 pick as part of a package for a blockbuster trade ... interesting times in Montreal ... Cheers. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 9, 2024 9:18:39 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Jun 9, 2024 9:55:25 GMT -5
Remember Tinordi? We were drafting a defensive monster with the pedigree that would strike fear into every Neanderthal with a hockey stick.
Yeah...that really worked out...
I'm not sure where this "he is the son of" buys you a guarantee carbon copy.
Iggy is NOT top 5 material. Certainly top 10, but let's not annoit him like we did KK.
Stick to the plan...
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