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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 22, 2024 14:06:23 GMT -5
Is anyone else a little disapointed? To be honest, I was expecting a free agent signing (1-3 years in length) or atleast a trade to bring in a young player (22-24 range) while using our excess defencemen and extra picks. Maybe it will come during preseason, but to me if it hasn't happened yet, then I can't see getting full value in September either. Thoughts?
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Post by Skilly on Jul 22, 2024 17:09:44 GMT -5
Another summer of sitting in the pumpkin patch waiting for something to happen.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 22, 2024 17:20:46 GMT -5
I'm not disappointed, I've had enough of Anderson, gallagher and Armia type contacts that are an albatross. Free agents want security and won't take a 2 year contract... Hughes tried but none of the ones he tried for were interested. If he had done a 4 or 5 year contract people would be howling after year 2, it was no win and I'm glad Hughes stuck to his guns.
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Post by folatre on Jul 22, 2024 17:26:32 GMT -5
The bigger dollar/term UFAs would not have made sense at this stage. Sure, it would be nice to see a young forward added via trade. Based on what Friedman said, Hughes has been in on McGroarty and Necas. And I am sure there are others. I never thought any of the d-men would get moved until after free agency because teams lacking quality on the blue line probably wanted to see if they were going to fill holes that way before engaging seriously in trade talks where they would have to give up assets to fix the problem.
The last three weeks of July and the first three weeks of August are generally very quiet around the league, aside from a handful of arbitration cases and GMs negotiating with their own players who are up for a contract. However, close to the start of camp, I would not be surprised if Hughes pulls off a trade for a young forward.
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Post by drkcloud on Jul 22, 2024 17:55:15 GMT -5
Too early in the off season to be disappointed. I'm genuinely excited to see what we have in Demidov, and can't remember the last time I was.
That being said, I think if Marchessault had signed we had a chance at the playoffs if not contending. If the roster doesn't radically change, I expect more small steps from our youngsters. I don't expect another top 5 pick but I do expect to pick around 10 to 12 then welcome Demidov
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Post by frozone on Jul 22, 2024 22:26:43 GMT -5
Overall, I’m definitely disappointed. On 2 levels.
Firstly, we’ve been told that management wants to create a culture that will appeal to the players. A brand of hockey that will be fun and should attract ufa’s. Maybe they’ve done that, but we came up empty handed this offseason on the ufa front.
Secondly, our team right now is arguably worse than opening night last season. We have no replacement for Monahan and our LHD situation is still a little bit of a mess. We actually traded Kovacevic of all ppl, which was some RHD depth that I thought was useful.
I trust Hugo to make the tough decisions so i don’t doubt that they made the right non-moves this summer, but we can’t be patient forever.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 23, 2024 1:25:22 GMT -5
Not disappointed at all. Don't want some ridiculous overpaying UFA contract to blow up the plan. And any UFA prepared to take a reanable 2 year contract wouldn't be worth signing. As for trades, HuGo still has all the assets so he can use them when he feels he's getting a good return.
As for additions from within, they are numerous. The first big one is Dach. We did not have him last season and he will probably be better than anyone HuGo could have picked up. We may also get Demigod from Russia and he could win the Calder. And then we are likely to have one or two hgih quality rookies join the D core in Hudson, Mailloux or Reinbacher. Any of them could be a Calder candidate, maybe two of them.
STICK WITH THE PLAN!!!
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Post by Polarice on Jul 23, 2024 5:27:32 GMT -5
There were absolutely no UFA's this year that would have helped the Habs this year. We are at the near end of our rebuild and our young players need more seasoning to make that big jump to compete in the playoffs. We have a few contracts from the past regime that need to be gone before we make that big push signing some UFA's or trading for that missing piece.
Besides next years crop of UFA's is far more interesting than this years that just passed. It would be nice to have the cap space to make that big splash if we had the opportunity to do so.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 23, 2024 11:10:49 GMT -5
I'm not disappointed, I've had enough of Anderson, gallagher and Armia type contacts that are an albatross. Free agents want security and won't take a 2 year contract... Hughes tried but none of the ones he tried for were interested. If he had done a 4 or 5 year contract people would be howling after year 2, it was no win and I'm glad Hughes stuck to his guns. Agree!!! My offseason was made when the Name Demidov was called. I was sitting in the sphere while team after team passed on Eiserman and the prospect of getting both scoring experts was shattered at the 20th pick. Still we got Demidov and I’m told again that the stud Hage we really wanted fell into our lap. The stud may follow the usual route. Didn’t make any bad deals, didn’t hurt our salary structure, hoarded cap space for a future deal, again. Young players will improve, hope for an injury free year by guys who are injury prone. Rome wasn’t built in a day. A second line of Suzuki, Caufield and Slavkovsky would have been great following a first line of Michkov, Demidov and Eiserman. I could live without Reinbacher on a crowded defense roster. Dach centering line three is fine. Waiting in the patch for the great pumpkin. It’s hard but no bad trades are better than nothing. |
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Post by folatre on Jul 23, 2024 18:38:26 GMT -5
The only guy Montreal offered was Marchessault, but the Habs were not willing to go beyond three years.
I believe Hughes called Brisson about Patty Kane to feel out whether the future HOFer would have an interest in an incentive-laden one year contract in hockey's mecca. My hunch is the conversation was amicable and short, because Brisson probably told Hughes hey look for one year Patty is okay just re-signing in Detroit if a contender does not get into the mix. I never heard a credible report that Hughes made an offer for Perron. So basically I do not come away from free agency feeling like UFAs were not interested in Montreal. The reality was that Hughes simply had almost zero interest in the 2024 UFA class.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 23, 2024 21:43:53 GMT -5
I'm not so disappointed in the ack of free agents, more so on the side of trades. I think we have the assets to move to get better, whether it is in picks or prospects. Contrary to popular belief, prospects lose value as time goes by. Warts and deficiencies become exposed the longer one waits. The trick is knowing which ones to keep early and which ones to move.
The fact is, we are no better than the team that finished last season. In fact SOME can make the argument we are worse with the lose of Monahan, Allen and Kovacevic.
Look, I love the draft picks we got this year, but none of those players will have an effect on this season. We need to take another step forward this season. Winning builds confidence, culture and increases expectations.
I am willing to give them another season. You can even check my previous posts suggesting we remain in the basement for one more final low pick and to clear the remaining bad contracts on the books (Armia, Dvorak, Savard, buyouts).
But trust me, this is the last season the press and the fans will accept losing. So time to be a little proactive and target NHL ready players.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 24, 2024 2:11:24 GMT -5
I'm not so disappointed in the ack of free agents, more so on the side of trades. I think we have the assets to move to get better, whether it is in picks or prospects. Contrary to popular belief, prospects lose value as time goes by. Warts and deficiencies become exposed the longer one waits. The trick is knowing which ones to keep early and which ones to move. The fact is, we are no better than the team that finished last season. In fact SOME can make the argument we are worse with the lose of Monahan, Allen and Kovacevic. Look, I love the draft picks we got this year, but none of those players will have an effect on this season. We need to take another step forward this season. Winning builds confidence, culture and increases expectations. I am willing to give them another season. You can even check my previous posts suggesting we remain in the basement for one more final low pick and to clear the remaining bad contracts on the books (Armia, Dvorak, Savard, buyouts). But trust me, this is the last season the press and the fans will accept losing. So time to be a little proactive and target NHL ready players. I don't think Hughes disagrees with you, but trades don't always happen on presumed schedules. Let's consider the 3 targets most commonly mentioned this offseason. Trevor Zegras, Martin Necas and Rutger McGroarty. Their teams are under no pressure to trade those guys...or are they? The pressure they are facing are opportunity costs and the potentially lowering value of each player as they approach free agency. Zegras is the furthest from UFA-dom and under the least pressure to be moved. The opportunity cost for Anaheim is that he has value but not the kind of value Verbeek wants. But he can be played and there's no rush to trade him. Necas qualifies as a UFA after next season (2 more to go). Every minute that passes, he gets closer to being worthless to the Hurricanes. McGroarty is the riskiest of the 3 to his current team. He could opt into UFA status in 2 years at the age of 22. Every month that passes, reduces his value to the Jets. the most pressure to trade the player falls on Winnipeg, followed by Carolina. Hughes is not ignoring a trade, but he's weighed what the other teams need, has made initial offers no doubt, and is now waiting for the noose to tighten. Hughes' offer may not be the best, but he's got the assets Carolina or Winnipeg need. Carolina has lost Pesce and Skjei for nothing. That's a lot of quality and Dundon needs to have some NHL ready bodies. He's brought in some other guys, Sean Walker and the Ghost, but they don't have a lot of depth. Still, the Jets are the most in need. Morrison, Pionk and Demelo are fine, but there's a real drop off to Samberg, STanley and Colin Miller. Heinola should be ready, but he's one of the guys who has been stunted by the fringe guys played ahead of him. Harris, Struble, Mailloux would all look good to Chevy, maybe even Barron. McGroarty is good enough right now to slot into that LW spot on the second line. He's a big body who can forecheck, pass and score. Anyway, patience is needed. |
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Post by frozone on Jul 24, 2024 10:01:32 GMT -5
I'm not so disappointed in the ack of free agents, more so on the side of trades. I think we have the assets to move to get better, whether it is in picks or prospects. Contrary to popular belief, prospects lose value as time goes by. Warts and deficiencies become exposed the longer one waits. The trick is knowing which ones to keep early and which ones to move. The fact is, we are no better than the team that finished last season. In fact SOME can make the argument we are worse with the lose of Monahan, Allen and Kovacevic. Look, I love the draft picks we got this year, but none of those players will have an effect on this season. We need to take another step forward this season. Winning builds confidence, culture and increases expectations. I am willing to give them another season. You can even check my previous posts suggesting we remain in the basement for one more final low pick and to clear the remaining bad contracts on the books (Armia, Dvorak, Savard, buyouts). But trust me, this is the last season the press and the fans will accept losing. So time to be a little proactive and target NHL ready players. I don't think Hughes disagrees with you, but trades don't always happen on presumed schedules. Let's consider the 3 targets most commonly mentioned this offseason. Trevor Zegras, Martin Necas and Rutger McGroarty. Their teams are under no pressure to trade those guys...or are they? The pressure they are facing are opportunity costs and the potentially lowering value of each player as they approach free agency. Zegras is the furthest from UFA-dom and under the least pressure to be moved. The opportunity cost for Anaheim is that he has value but not the kind of value Verbeek wants. But he can be played and there's no rush to trade him. Necas qualifies as a UFA after next season (2 more to go). Every minute that passes, he gets closer to being worthless to the Hurricanes. McGroarty is the riskiest of the 3 to his current team. He could opt into UFA status in 2 years at the age of 22. Every month that passes, reduces his value to the Jets. the most pressure to trade the player falls on Winnipeg, followed by Carolina. Hughes is not ignoring a trade, but he's weighed what the other teams need, has made initial offers no doubt, and is now waiting for the noose to tighten. Hughes' offer may not be the best, but he's got the assets Carolina or Winnipeg need. Carolina has lost Pesce and Skjei for nothing. That's a lot of quality and Dundon needs to have some NHL ready bodies. He's brought in some other guys, Sean Walker and the Ghost, but they don't have a lot of depth. Still, the Jets are the most in need. Morrison, Pionk and Demelo are fine, but there's a real drop off to Samberg, STanley and Colin Miller. Heinola should be ready, but he's one of the guys who has been stunted by the fringe guys played ahead of him. Harris, Struble, Mailloux would all look good to Chevy, maybe even Barron. McGroarty is good enough right now to slot into that LW spot on the second line. He's a big body who can forecheck, pass and score. Anyway, patience is needed. Agreed with all of this, but if you would have asked me back in April if I would have expected there to be an improvement to the roster by the end of July, I would have said yes. Whether it would be shedding some dead weight, trading one of our LHD’s to fill another hole, or perhaps even just signing Xhekaj or Guhle, at the end of the day it’s disappointing. Hugo has proven to be very resourceful and creative in solving some of the past roster problems. He somehow managed to offload Hoffman! So yes, I’m definitely disappointed at how little had been done so far this offseason. I’m surprised more people aren’t. I believed in a Vision of slow steady progression but I’m not convinced our team is any better than opening night of 2023-24. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 24, 2024 10:16:49 GMT -5
I don't think Hughes disagrees with you, but trades don't always happen on presumed schedules. Let's consider the 3 targets most commonly mentioned this offseason. Trevor Zegras, Martin Necas and Rutger McGroarty. Their teams are under no pressure to trade those guys...or are they? The pressure they are facing are opportunity costs and the potentially lowering value of each player as they approach free agency. Zegras is the furthest from UFA-dom and under the least pressure to be moved. The opportunity cost for Anaheim is that he has value but not the kind of value Verbeek wants. But he can be played and there's no rush to trade him. Necas qualifies as a UFA after next season (2 more to go). Every minute that passes, he gets closer to being worthless to the Hurricanes. McGroarty is the riskiest of the 3 to his current team. He could opt into UFA status in 2 years at the age of 22. Every month that passes, reduces his value to the Jets. the most pressure to trade the player falls on Winnipeg, followed by Carolina. Hughes is not ignoring a trade, but he's weighed what the other teams need, has made initial offers no doubt, and is now waiting for the noose to tighten. Hughes' offer may not be the best, but he's got the assets Carolina or Winnipeg need. Carolina has lost Pesce and Skjei for nothing. That's a lot of quality and Dundon needs to have some NHL ready bodies. He's brought in some other guys, Sean Walker and the Ghost, but they don't have a lot of depth. Still, the Jets are the most in need. Morrison, Pionk and Demelo are fine, but there's a real drop off to Samberg, STanley and Colin Miller. Heinola should be ready, but he's one of the guys who has been stunted by the fringe guys played ahead of him. Harris, Struble, Mailloux would all look good to Chevy, maybe even Barron. McGroarty is good enough right now to slot into that LW spot on the second line. He's a big body who can forecheck, pass and score. Anyway, patience is needed. Agreed with all of this, but if you would have asked me back in April if I would have expected there to be an improvement to the roster by the end of July, I would have said yes. Whether it would be shedding some dead weight, trading one of our LHD’s to fill another hole, or perhaps even just signing Xhekaj or Guhle, at the end of the day it’s disappointing. Hugo has proven to be very resourceful and creative in solving some of the past roster problems. He somehow managed to offload Hoffman! So yes, I’m definitely disappointed at how little had been done so far this offseason. I’m surprised more people aren’t. I believed in a Vision of slow steady progression but I’m not convinced our team is any better than opening night of 2023-24. You quote sums it up perfectly. Seems like we are in the minority though. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 24, 2024 10:59:43 GMT -5
Agreed with all of this, but if you would have asked me back in April if I would have expected there to be an improvement to the roster by the end of July, I would have said yes. Whether it would be shedding some dead weight, trading one of our LHD’s to fill another hole, or perhaps even just signing Xhekaj or Guhle, at the end of the day it’s disappointing. Hugo has proven to be very resourceful and creative in solving some of the past roster problems. He somehow managed to offload Hoffman! So yes, I’m definitely disappointed at how little had been done so far this offseason. I’m surprised more people aren’t. I believed in a Vision of slow steady progression but I’m not convinced our team is any better than opening night of 2023-24. You quote sums it up perfectly. Seems like we are in the minority though. C Put in perspective, Necas, McGroarty and Zegras are not superstars. Are they better than anything we have? No. Could they make the team and upgrade the second line? Yes. The longer we wait the more they depreciate not only to their current teams but also our Canadian team who will have to compete to resign them soon. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 24, 2024 11:24:23 GMT -5
I am a bit surprised that Hughes has not yet pulled off a trade to improve up front. The key word may be “yet”, because the season is still a ways off. Not sure if he gets it done, but I am pretty sure it won’t be for lack of trying. He seems like a very disciplined trader when it comes to things. He has a set price when he is buying or selling, and will wait it out. There is always a chance that nothing gets done though, and that likely would be disappointing but not terrible.
It is a big development season. Everyone talks about the obvious one in Dach, but I will also be looking for guys like Newhook and Roy to have big years if they stay healthy too. They need to show they will be a bigger part of the core depth down the road.
You also have a three tiers of young players to watch as well. The top tier of guys like Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher will all be likely getting a taste of both teams, so you want to see their game grow. That will help guide HuGo on whether you can make future moves away from the veteran defenders over the next two seasons.
There is a new batch of first year North American pros in Beck, Mešár, The Deputy, Engström, Tuch who all need to show what they can do in Laval. Kapanen can go back and get excellent experience in the SHL, but it is still a big camp for him to show how close he is too. He has been playing top tier men’s hockey for a few seasons now and he had a good Worlds, so he is likely closer to fighting for a spot than the other young forwards.
Then you have the “show me” guys in Laval like Heineman, Farrell and Kidney who need to decide if they want to be in the running for a call up and part of the future or risk falling farther down the depth chart with other guys moving in.
A lot of young players have important seasons coming up that will make watching both pro teams more fun. Hopefully, playing meaningful hockey games in both Montreal and Laval is not far off either, because I expect that should happen this year in Laval with their improved lineup and a year later in Montreal if there are no further moves before the start of the season.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 24, 2024 13:46:34 GMT -5
Arpon Basu had an interesting piece on teams that have been bottom dweller and then improved suddenly in a following season. More than you'd think and he compares those teams to the Habs of today. x.com/ArponBasu/status/1815374250535981181The points made by NWT in the previous post are plumbed in depth by Basu. I found it interesting and it confirms some of my thinking regarding the guys that have a year or two under their belts and are poised to become something better, without adding any top players from outside. |
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Post by frozone on Jul 24, 2024 14:53:45 GMT -5
Again, all very true points but it doesn’t mean that our lineup is currently primed for the development of our youth. I’m not even expecting a top UFA signing or anything. It would just be nice if Guhle didn’t have to keep developing on the right side.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 24, 2024 16:19:43 GMT -5
Again, all very true points but it doesn’t mean that our lineup is currently primed for the development of our youth. I’m not even expecting a top UFA signing or anything. It would just be nice if Guhle didn’t have to keep developing on the right side. Yeah, I would love to see Guhle back on his strong side. Something has to give on the LHD logjam though as the team is slowly building up some RHD depth and guys like Engström who played a lot of right side in the SHL. Hughes has the assets to swing a deal for a young forward and ease up the left side log jam, but he has to find a willing partner and a reasonable price. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 25, 2024 22:28:02 GMT -5
Let's forget improving the second line. That where most people want to see improvement
But someone really needs to explain to me where we improved on the bottom six. That should have been the easy part.
We still have ZERO secondary scoring
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 26, 2024 1:18:27 GMT -5
Let's forget improving the second line. That where most people want to see improvement But someone really needs to explain to me where we improved on the bottom six. That should have been the easy part. We still have ZERO secondary scoring It will be hard to improve the bottom 6 when Josh, Gally, Armia, and Dvo are on the roster. They will be on the bottom 6 so unless they improve, the bottom 6 won't. And to pour salt on the wound, they are paid as if they are top 6. HuGo can't wait to unload those guys! |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 26, 2024 1:23:59 GMT -5
Let's forget improving the second line. That where most people want to see improvement But someone really needs to explain to me where we improved on the bottom six. That should have been the easy part. We still have ZERO secondary scoring Yeah, nothing much has happened there, Skilly. I think that's one reason Hughes isn't planning any Cup parades this coming season. One way to improve the bottom six is to move people down the line-up. When Demidov arrives, either Newhook or Roy is ending up on the 3rd line, which pushes Gallagher down to the 4th line. There's still the matter of the ethereal big trade that we hope happens. Moving one of our picks next year, or a couple of our young D for a Necas, or Zegras or McGroarty, or another player none of us have thought of who fits the top 6 role, then forces Newhook down a slot. Evans may not be around after the TDL, nor Dvorak, or Armia. Those guys aren't going to get us a top 6 player, but we might acquire a draft pick or a B+ prospect, someone who can fit on the 3rd or 4th lines. There are a number of players in Laval this year who may make a jump. Florian or Luke Tuch are 2 possibilities. Another name we aren't as familiar with is Oliver Kapinen. By the TDL, Beck may have enough AHL games to have earned a call-up. Except for the top 6 incoming trade guy, the rest are more of a development improvement, but they're important because 2 full seasons from now, they will have that experience that we won't need to trade for. Around that time, we'll also have Hage and possibly whoever we get this coming draft with our pick or Calgary's (Since Florida is missing the playoffs  ) |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 26, 2024 7:55:11 GMT -5
And tomorrow...and tomorrow..
.and tomorrow never comes. But could'a, should'a is always on the lip.
We have assets that we WILL lose for less value then we have on them now. So asset management is not about how many you can keep accumulating, but rather, how to max out their value. OBVIOUSLY Hughes is fully aware of this but like every human, he will have his favorites and his blinders.
I'm in favor of being proactive, because waiting for that deal to fall into our lap is a fools wait. 30 other teams ready to steal our lunch.
What is Hughes going to do to make us better...every day.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 26, 2024 9:35:30 GMT -5
Let's forget improving the second line. That where most people want to see improvement But someone really needs to explain to me where we improved on the bottom six. That should have been the easy part. We still have ZERO secondary scoring It will be hard to improve the bottom 6 when Josh, Gally, Armia, and Dvo are on the roster. They will be on the bottom 6 so unless they improve, the bottom 6 won't. And to pour salt on the wound, they are paid as if they are top 6. HuGo can't wait to unload those guys! Funny how things change, and often not for the best. If you had told me a few years ago the Gally, Josh, Armia and Dvo would be on our bottom 6 in. afew years, I would have said 'Wow, we're must have really improved our top 6 and are a contender". Not so much  |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 26, 2024 10:49:11 GMT -5
It will be hard to improve the bottom 6 when Josh, Gally, Armia, and Dvo are on the roster. They will be on the bottom 6 so unless they improve, the bottom 6 won't. And to pour salt on the wound, they are paid as if they are top 6. HuGo can't wait to unload those guys! Funny how things change, and often not for the best. If you had told me a few years ago the Gally, Josh, Armia and Dvo would be on our bottom 6 in. afew years, I would have said 'Wow, we're must have really improved our top 6 and are a contender". Not so much Our top six has improved because they are not on it... |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 26, 2024 11:15:32 GMT -5
And tomorrow...and tomorrow.. .and tomorrow never comes. But could'a, should'a is always on the lip. We have assets that we WILL lose for less value then we have on them now. So asset management is not about how many you can keep accumulating, but rather, how to max out their value. OBVIOUSLY Hughes is fully aware of this but like every human, he will have his favorites and his blinders. I'm in favor of being proactive, because waiting for that deal to fall into our lap is a fools wait. 30 other teams ready to steal our lunch. What is Hughes going to do to make us better...every day. Hughes has no issues moving prospects when the right deal lands on his lap. He doesn't seem the type to overspend on someone just to add a body. I think he's looking for a player that will naturally fit in with the team and style they want to play. I'm thinking that if things not materialize this summer than we could have an interesting trade deadline because I know they are feeling the pressure from the fans. |
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Post by Douper on Aug 1, 2024 5:30:53 GMT -5
Any offseason where we add a Demidov talent can't be a disappointment
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Post by seventeen on Aug 1, 2024 13:55:38 GMT -5
Any offseason where we add a Demidov talent can't be a disappointment Absolutely. Add Hage to that and it's even sweeter. Good to see you checking in again, Douper. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 1, 2024 16:10:48 GMT -5
I’m going to bring up one point I’ve noticed with all the recent signings. I have always felt you need to pay people what they’re worth or you end up with an unhappy employee at some point. You don’t want to overpay, but you shouldn’t underpay either. I think Guhle and Xhekaj both are underpaid slightly. Guhle s/b at $6MM and Arber at $2MM. Not a lot more but fairer I think. I hope this doesn’t create ill will in the future.
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Post by frozone on Aug 1, 2024 17:05:08 GMT -5
I’m tempted to change my answer to no after these signings, but I won’t. Still disappointed on the trade front. Great draft and great housekeeping, but disappointed on the activity (that we know of, obviously) relating to trades and ufa signings. Especially after seeing what guys like Savoie, Holtz and Marino went for.
However I do see I’m heavily in the minority, but I still worry that we won’t be taking a step forward next season. Put it this way: if I was MSL, I’d be wondering why the heck has management been putting it out there that the team wants to start competing for the playoffs next season when we haven’t done anything this summer to improve the club?
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