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Post by jkr on Nov 9, 2024 8:15:38 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Nov 9, 2024 15:26:59 GMT -5
It is rare to find a Stanley Cup Champion that isn't, if not a veteran team, a team with many of it's players in the 26-28 age range. They've been through the various stages of systems and adapt more easily to a more complex system. Young teams don't have that under their belts yet.
What those clips above show me is that
a) on most of the goals, one player simply got beat, creating space and then the structure falls apart as others try to rotate, but the puck moves too fast. If you watch basketball at all, the most elementary play is to create a mismatch, either a good shooter vs a bad defender or a 7' tall centre being guarded by a 6' 3" guard. The whole point is to set picks, create switches until you get a mismatch and then take advantage of it. In hockey you try to have one guy beat another guy by superior skating, puck handling, deking, bullishness, and you create an odd man advantage and try to get the puck to the open guy who is hopefully in a dangerous area. You can see in those clips that the Habs are being beaten and then end up chasing and open ice is created. So it would probably help if the system was simpler and therefore less confusion would result and there would be fewer high danger chances given up.
In fact, if one went through the games played by the Cup Champs, you'd likely find several reasons one could pin on them winning, besides any system they were playing.
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Post by folatre on Nov 9, 2024 19:24:12 GMT -5
Interesting article, jkr. Thanks for sharing it.
I agree with the writer on nearly every point he makes. Montreal is really not well equipped to play the hybrid d-coverage system that St. Louis wants. The team is too inexperienced and the teacher himself is learning the system. Coach St. Louis is not Paul Maurice or Laviolette, who have vast experience instructing players on the smaller nuances of the system.
Three or four times a week I watch a couple of former NCAA players coaching up my son's team in the defensive zone. The basic structure is, of course, a zone coverage system. And within that system, the boys learn when and where to kill plays and take possession. Zoning up does not mean playing passive hockey.
Every single defensive metric is bottom five. The sample size is getting larger and the numbers do not lie. I really wish for the sake of the Habs' goalies and young players that Hughes would inform St. Louis that the time for this experiment is not now and that the team needs the d-zone stability that a zone system offers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 9, 2024 22:47:41 GMT -5
After the loss to tge Leafs we are tied for last place in the league with the Sharks...
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Post by folatre on Nov 9, 2024 22:54:54 GMT -5
It is very unfortunate, yet I think management will be left with no choice but to fire the entire coaching staff when the season ends. The Habs do not play like an NHL team (last year they did despite the poor record). Unless they are truly lost themselves, Hughes and Gorton would have certainly already drawn up their lists of potential replacements behind the bench and called around about who has the qualifications and wants the gig.
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Post by PTH on Nov 9, 2024 23:20:26 GMT -5
It is very unfortunate, yet I think management will be left with no choice but to fire the entire coaching staff when the season ends. The Habs do not play like an NHL team (last year they did despite the poor record). Unless they are truly lost themselves, Hughes and Gorton would have certainly already drawn up their lists of potential replacements behind the bench and called around about who has the qualifications and wants the gig. I hope they find a way to get back on-track to improving season over season, while also not selling off the future to improve the present. I don't want to see the Calgary/Florida pick, or a kid like Mesar, get dealt for immediate help. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 9, 2024 23:26:06 GMT -5
It is very unfortunate, yet I think management will be left with no choice but to fire the entire coaching staff when the season ends. The Habs do not play like an NHL team (last year they did despite the poor record). Unless they are truly lost themselves, Hughes and Gorton would have certainly already drawn up their lists of potential replacements behind the bench and called around about who has the qualifications and wants the gig. I hope they find a way to get back on-track to improving season over season, while also not selling off the future to improve the present. I don't want to see the Calgary/Florida pick, or a kid like Mesar, get dealt for immediate help. Pascal Vincent is doing a very good job in Laval, he should be at the top of the list if changes are going to be made... and there are a couple of good coaches in the Q who can be brought into Laval |
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Post by PTH on Nov 10, 2024 0:18:04 GMT -5
I hope they find a way to get back on-track to improving season over season, while also not selling off the future to improve the present. I don't want to see the Calgary/Florida pick, or a kid like Mesar, get dealt for immediate help. Pascal Vincent is doing a very good job in Laval, he should be at the top of the list if changes are going to be made... and there are a couple of good coaches in the Q who can be brought into Laval I'm already thinking MSL should be given a clear mandate to develop the kids and get Newhook and Dach to get into their respective grooves, knowing this season won't be a winning one. Really, I don't want a coaching change to take us out of the top 5 picks. |
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Post by franko on Nov 10, 2024 0:36:01 GMT -5
while improvement seems to be lacking, we do remember that this is one of the youngest teams in the league, don't we?
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Post by Cranky on Nov 10, 2024 2:05:48 GMT -5
Please tell me how sticking with SmartyMarty for the rest of the season will develop players?
His brilliant talent transfer?
Teaching his brilliant systems?
Learning how to win by losing?
HOW is losing with a lousy coach good for young players who are desperate to learn and take it to the next level?
Asking for a Sabres friend...
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Post by seventeen on Nov 10, 2024 3:34:41 GMT -5
while improvement seems to be lacking, we do remember that this is one of the youngest teams in the league, don't we? We are, and mistakes will take place. I did expect better, though. If they gained 10 points, I would have considered that successful progression. The pace right now is to be down 20 points from last year. Ok, our goaltending is not bailing us out, so that's probably worth about 10 points, but the rest? What I dislike is the lack of effort Matheson showed and copied on one play by Anderson. Why are these two, part of Marty's chosen? We expect the players and the coaching staff to try their hardest to win..even if management doesn't give them the right players. That means giving the players who are doing well that night, more ice time than others (within limits of course....you don't want Xhekaj getting 10 extra minutes by playing against the other team's top lines. Tonight, I though Struble had a strong game and Xhekaj was again faultless if not generative. Hutson made good plays at both ends, most often in the defensive zone. Savard was ok. Guhle had his issues but the mitigating factor with him, besides playing on the right, was covering for a guy who looked like he was waiting for the game to end to so he could sit at a bar and sip on a scotch. Matheson was as bad as I've ever seen him play. He just wasn't interested. Yet he played 24 minutes, the most on the team. That's rewarding poor behaviour and effort. Is it any wonder the rest of the guys don't work as hard as they might? If I was Hutson or Guhle, watching Matheson fall on his face and turn the puck over on that Marner goal, I'd be pi$$ed. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 10, 2024 19:14:04 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!!
I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games.
My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose.
So i ask my bros...
Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack??
I'm wondering....
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Post by IamCanadiens on Nov 10, 2024 19:25:58 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!! I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games. My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose. So i ask my bros... Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack?? I'm wondering.... I like Mrs. Cranky! Sounds pretty dang rational. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 10, 2024 19:34:06 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!! I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games. My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose. So i ask my bros... Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack?? I'm wondering.... Cranky....it's $5. Are you going to have this much angst over $5 a month? Maybe you could even watch a game that is close throughout and ends with a shootout loss. Listen to your wife. She is wise, but don't tell her that. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 10, 2024 19:52:32 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!! I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games. My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose. So i ask my bros... Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack?? I'm wondering.... She wants you to have a heart attack because you are complaining about $5 a month... lol Happy wife Happy life |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 11, 2024 0:34:39 GMT -5
Supporting bros my @$$... You guys would sell me down river for a hot night with Rosie O'Donnell and a used puck signed by Patrick Traverse...  |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2024 1:20:55 GMT -5
Supporting bros my @$$... You guys would sell me down river for a hot night with Rosie O'Donnell and a used puck signed by Patrick Traverse... So I've search the net for this product, and nada. Can you provide the link? |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2024 1:26:41 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!! I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games. My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose. So i ask my bros... Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack?? I'm wondering.... There's nothing Mrs Habsorbed loves to hear more than i got a Habs game to watch. It means she's free for 2-3 hours. I've often suggested that she should be paying for Centre Ice package as she gets way more benefits from it than I do. So far she ain't biting. But if she watched the first 15 games of this season i think she would recognize i've got a point.  |
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Post by chicagohabs on Nov 11, 2024 7:30:35 GMT -5
Why stick with Marty? Because a guy who played in the league for two decades, had to earn everything, went thru everything and had many good coaches, has more hockey knowledge in his toenail clippings than the rest of us combined.
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Post by jkr on Nov 11, 2024 8:26:56 GMT -5
I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!! I asked my wife to get rid of RDS because I'm sick of deleting their games. My wife says that I'm going to regret that and a true hockey fan watches the team, win or lose. So i ask my bros... Is she really helping me with my Habs addiction or is she scheming on me getting a heart attack?? I'm wondering.... RDS also shows Sens games. Just saying. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2024 14:31:10 GMT -5
Supporting bros my @$$... You guys would sell me down river for a hot night with Rosie O'Donnell and a used puck signed by Patrick Traverse... So I've search the net for this product, and nada. Can you provide the link? Rosie O'Donnell or the puck? |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2024 14:35:19 GMT -5
while improvement seems to be lacking, we do remember that this is one of the youngest teams in the league, don't we? So no results required until .... we are in the median age wise? .... you realize that could be 10 years. Everyone expected progress this year with the additions of Laine, Dach, and Hutson. To now use age as an excuse (when they are actually 2 months older and 15 more NHL games under their belt) is just that, an excuse. We get Demidov next year, do we still use age as an excuse, or are we expecting him to challenge for the Calder? It can't be both |
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Post by franko on Nov 11, 2024 23:27:18 GMT -5
while improvement seems to be lacking, we do remember that this is one of the youngest teams in the league, don't we? So no results required until .... we are in the median age wise? .... you realize that could be 10 years. Everyone expected progress this year with the additions of Laine, Dach, and Hutson. To now use age as an excuse (when they are actually 2 months older and 15 more NHL games under their belt) is just that, an excuse. We get Demidov next year, do we still use age as an excuse, or are we expecting him to challenge for the Calder? It can't be both no, I didn't say no results required, I did suggest that the learning curve has not fully kicked in yet. yet. I expected improvement at the beginning of the season, I'm disappointed that it has not happened yet, I anticipate that it will. and I'm not going to lower myself by using smarmy nicknames. |
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 12, 2024 0:33:34 GMT -5
So I've search the net for this product, and nada. Can you provide the link? Rosie O'Donnell or the puck? I thought it was a two for one deal? |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 13, 2024 17:53:27 GMT -5
no, I didn't say no results required, I did suggest that the learning curve has not fully kicked in yet. yet. I expected improvement at the beginning of the season, I'm disappointed that it has not happened yet, I anticipate that it will. and I'm not going to lower myself by using smarmy nicknames. I thought we'd see more progress this year ... I'm not sure how the club would have been doing even had Patrick Laine stayed healthy ... Laine wouldn't have been able to address the team's poor defensive play ... as far as depth goes, IMHO, one of the players the team misses is, RHD, Johnathan Kovacevic and, he was moved to NJ for a 4th ... another player they miss is Sean Monahan ... we have leaders in the lineup, but I agree with Stu Cowen in that the team misses Monahan's leadership ... he was moved out for a very confusing return from Calgary ... that said, I try to remind myself that we're only in year three of the rebuild (rubs forehead) ... I think Kent Hughes and Jeff Gorton are trying their best, but I'd like to see some progression this year ... it's a long season, and it'd be easier to take if the team shows improvement ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 13, 2024 18:11:35 GMT -5
Supporting bros my @$$... You guys would sell me down river for a hot night with Rosie O'Donnell and a used puck signed by Patrick Traverse... Nah...we just don't want you to sweat the small stuff. Unless Clear Observer starts posting more, you're our only source for Greek background. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 13, 2024 18:34:06 GMT -5
Why stick with Marty? Because a guy who played in the league for two decades, had to earn everything, went thru everything and had many good coaches, has more hockey knowledge in his toenail clippings than the rest of us combined. No one is disputing that. The question I have is whether he is capable of passing that on to his players or not. You rarely see great players become great coaches. Marty might be the outlier because he made himself great, but he had the high hockey IQ to do that. That's fairly common with elite players, but it is also one of the hardest things to explain or teach others. How do you explain having a video camera in your head that sees the entire ice and not just what's in front of you? Marty's players might see the same things he does but he does it in Cray computer speed while the players are Commodore 64's. Which brings us back to the question of whether Marty can adjust his coaching to get the players to execute his system smoothly. Maybe it's just taking time because it requires a lot of decisions and players are thinking too much instead of acting instinctually. If he hasn't got the team playing defensively sound by the end of this season, I think HuGo have to give consideration to a change. I posed a question to Basu and Godin about what they thought a reasonable progression was for this year. I suggested some possible answers might be having a good structure in place or to put a number like 85 points forward. What would make them feel this was a successful season? They answered it on their podcast, with Basu stating something like 5 wins in a row and maybe finishing .500. The 5 wins in a row suggesting that they had figured some things out and were able to repeat them for a stretch. Godin more or less agreed. I think those are reasonable goals to confirm that progress is being made. To finish at .500 we need 70 more points in 66 games. That's a .530 pace which should be manageable if we get our defensive act together, which will allow us to spend more time in the offensive zone. We really have to avoid injuries. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 20, 2024 2:08:10 GMT -5
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Post by Polarice on Nov 20, 2024 6:12:25 GMT -5
Pass....too much of a distraction to be an assistant. If Management were thinking of making a coaching change (which they are not) then I would put him right up there for a replacement for Marty. But for now, he should look for other opportunities. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 20, 2024 13:40:11 GMT -5
We have to keep in mind that there's more to Montgomery's firing than just his perceived coaching performance:
1) the fans in the Boston area have been very spoiled, with multiple championship teams. They are quick to criticize if a team is not living up to expectations. It has been good to see the Red Sox and Patriots fall upon hard times.
2) after 2 good seasons under Montgomery, those same fans are not accepting of mediocrity and are voice their displeasure loudly
3) Bruins ownership is very quick to react to fan's opinions. BTW, this is the same team that fired Bruce Cassidy. No doubt, ownership gave Sweeney a clear message to fix the problem.
4) What are Sweeney's options? They can't add players because they have nothing to trade with other than players they absolutely need to keep, or players no one else wants because of their contracts (And whose fault is that?)
5) Sweeney can buy himself some time by firing Montgomery, or he can fire himself for gross negligence. Duh. He can't fire Neely.
I've been calling for the Bruins downfall since Chara retired. Ahead of schedule, obviously. But the tipping point came when Bergeron retired. This is not a good team. Coyle and Lindholm are not #1 centres. Their star prospect, Mason Lohrei was -4 in the last game and he's no Lane Hutson. They have no one else. We'll soon hear Don Sweeney say, "it's hard to find good centres. No one trades them". He is definitely on the hot seat and probably won't last the summer. The Bruins have enjoyed fairly stable goaltending (thanks to the moron Leafs who gave up Rask for Raycroft) over the years, and having Bergeron since 2004 and having Jeff Gorton as GM for 4 months in 2006. They dumped Gorton too, so one has to ask if they really know what they're doing or are they just full of horseshoes?
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