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Post by MC Habber on Oct 2, 2005 16:40:35 GMT -5
In the cases of Shanahan and Smyth, the stats are a tad bit misleading... Quite right. Perhaps Hossa's stats are misleading as well. |
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Post by blny on Oct 2, 2005 17:36:57 GMT -5
Stats don't show work ethic and desire. Hossa could have garnered favour if he even remotely showed desire to work.
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Post by Skilly on Oct 2, 2005 19:05:00 GMT -5
In the cases of Shanahan and Smyth, the stats are a tad bit misleading... Maybe Hossa'a are misleading too .... he still can be a 30+ goal scorer at the age of 24. Looking back on it now hindsight is 20-20 .... back when Shanahan, Smyth, and Naslund were struggling (irregardless of age) I bet the GM's were biting their nails hoping they didnt get a lemon. If Hossa gets on a line with Jagr, or goes on the PP at all , then Hossa Minor could have a major year. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2005 21:42:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why Hossa was tossed so early. If he held onto him longer, he would have gotten a better return from him. This move doesn't make any sense to me right now.
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Post by jkr on Oct 3, 2005 6:53:00 GMT -5
I don't understand why Hossa was tossed so early. If he held onto him longer, he would have gotten a better return from him. This move doesn't make any sense to me right now. By early do mean early in the season or early in his career. In any case, if proven players like Friesen & Roenick go for picks we can't expect a great return for Marcel Hossa. |
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Post by jkr on Oct 3, 2005 6:55:01 GMT -5
I think by great starts people were referring to his training camps and call ups. The last time he was up with Montreal was 2003/04. He played 15 games and scored two points and at that time he would have been 22 or 23. Actually, Hossa's still only 23 (for 10 more days), so he would have only been 21 turning 22 (as TSN says he was sent down on 24-Nov-03). I'll nitpick here. In November 2003 Hossa would have been 22. ( his birthday is in October. |
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Post by jkr on Oct 3, 2005 6:58:39 GMT -5
Watching the Rangers and Devils. Hossa has been the best player on the ice in the 1st period. Ward has played veryhigh energy and has thrown a couple of good hits. This is what some of here are referring to - he shows energy for a while & then it fizzles. Lets have a look at Hossa in about a month & revisit this deal. Trying to evaluate a trade after 1 or 2 exhibition games won't tell us much. |
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 3, 2005 7:40:50 GMT -5
I don't understand why Hossa was tossed so early. If he held onto him longer, he would have gotten a better return from him. This move doesn't make any sense to me right now. That's my biggest complaint about the trade. Gainey himself said, like two days before the deal, that the trade market was not a very good one at this time. So why deal now? Talk about selling low. What's the worst that could have happened? No team would be willing to trade a Garth Murray for Hossa ten games into the season? Somehow I don't think that is likely. Use the waiver rules to your advantage. Hide Perezhoghin and Higgins in the AHL until such time as things clear up, both in Montreal, and elsewhere. Then call them up when some team is more willing to deal for Hossa, and/or he has proven his worth one way or the other. Right now, if looks like Gainey dealt Hossa at the worst possible time... |
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Post by Bob on Oct 3, 2005 8:52:27 GMT -5
What perplexes me about this trade is that very few posters seem to grasp the situation.
Montreal had too many forwards and Hossa's role would have been on the 3rd line. While he scored some goals he didn't show the all-around skill set (read grit and defensive play) that would have been required once the puck was dropped for real.
If Gainey had sent him down, he would have had to clear waivers which was doubtful. If he did clear waivers, then Gainey would not have been able to call him up without exposing him to waivers again. And then Montreal would have still been responsible for a portion of his salary.
Given those factors, the Habs were painted into a corner with Hossa. Yes, he is a good player but there were very few options available and the other GM's knew that.
I, too, would have a liked a defenseman in return and it is nice to speculate. But there has to be a team that is willing to trade a defenseman to you. Just wishing that we could have received a defenseman doesn't make it reality.
We need to move on and forget about this trade. It is over and the focus should be on the team we have now.
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 3, 2005 9:18:00 GMT -5
Its not so much that I don’t understand the situation, – I don’t understand why the situation had to be dealt with now.
Hossa showed some decent chemistry with Bulis and Bonk. Why not let that experiment go for another 5-10 games? Send Higgins and Perezhoghin to the minors – THEY don’t have to clear waivers – and see if Hossa can continue to develop. As I said, its not like the Habs wouldn’t have been able to get a Garth Murray type player for Hossa two weeks from now. The guy’s a 3rd line AHL player, for crying out loud.
Does anybody think playing Hossa on the 3rd line for two weeks, instead of Higgins and/or Perezhoghin, would have jeopardized the Habs playoff spot? Of course not.
It seems like poor asset management to me. You trade a guy during what Gainey himself admitted was a bad time to be making trades, and not because they HAD to, but because they didn’t want to send Higgins and/or Perezhoghin to the minors for a couple of weeks. That’s what I don’t get.
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Post by ropoflu on Oct 3, 2005 10:28:29 GMT -5
Montreal had too many forwards and Hossa's role would have been on the 3rd line. While he scored some goals he didn't show the all-around skill set (read grit and defensive play) that would have been required once the puck was dropped for real. Not too many big, fast, scoring forwards if you ask me. Plus, from what I saw this pre-season, Hossa played with at least as much intensity and grit as Bulis or Sundstrom. As for his work in the defensive zone, it's hard to tell as when paired with Bonk his line spent far more time in the offensive zone. I don't understand why Hossa was tossed so early. If he held onto him longer, he would have gotten a better return from him. This move doesn't make any sense to me right now. Its not so much that I don’t understand the situation, – I don’t understand why the situation had to be dealt with now. My feeling as well. |
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Post by habfan74 on Oct 3, 2005 10:56:27 GMT -5
From what I heard the Habs approached the rangers about Murray and the rangers asked for Hossa in return, so its not like Gainey was shopping Hossa.
I'm also hearing that there is more to this trade, than just Hossa and Murray, there is a rumor that the habs are trying to get POTI.
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Post by jkr on Oct 3, 2005 13:35:36 GMT -5
I don't understand why Hossa was tossed so early. If he held onto him longer, he would have gotten a better return from him. This move doesn't make any sense to me right now. That's my biggest complaint about the trade. Gainey himself said, like two days before the deal, that the trade market was not a very good one at this time. So why deal now? Talk about selling low. What's the worst that could have happened? No team would be willing to trade a Garth Murray for Hossa ten games into the season? Somehow I don't think that is likely. Use the waiver rules to your advantage. Hide Perezhoghin and Higgins in the AHL until such time as things clear up, both in Montreal, and elsewhere. Then call them up when some team is more willing to deal for Hossa, and/or he has proven his worth one way or the other. Right now, if looks like Gainey dealt Hossa at the worst possible time... Where's the meritocracy in that.? If Higgins et al deserver to make the team they should be on it. |
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 3, 2005 14:09:00 GMT -5
That's my biggest complaint about the trade. Gainey himself said, like two days before the deal, that the trade market was not a very good one at this time. So why deal now? Talk about selling low. What's the worst that could have happened? No team would be willing to trade a Garth Murray for Hossa ten games into the season? Somehow I don't think that is likely. Use the waiver rules to your advantage. Hide Perezhoghin and Higgins in the AHL until such time as things clear up, both in Montreal, and elsewhere. Then call them up when some team is more willing to deal for Hossa, and/or he has proven his worth one way or the other. Right now, if looks like Gainey dealt Hossa at the worst possible time... Where's the meritocracy in that.? If Higgins et al deserver to make the team they should be on it. Well, first of all, I've never believed teams work on pure meritocracies, and have always said so. Second of all, by most accounts, Plekanec, Hossa, Latendresse, Higgins and Perezhoghin were ranked in that order, based on their pre-season performance. Hossa and Latendresse are no longer with the team, indicating that #4 and 5 beat out #2 and 3. Where is the meritocracy in that? Its a salary cap world. The New England Patriots, largely regarded as the best managed team in pro-sports, will not hesitate for a second to cut a player if he doesn't fit their team needs, no matter what that player did for the team. Ask Troy Brown. Its not about meritocracy, its about asset management. |
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Post by Bob on Oct 3, 2005 17:27:22 GMT -5
I'm also hearing that there is more to this trade, than just Hossa and Murray, there is a rumor that the habs are trying to get POTI. I hope that one isn't true! There probably isn't a softer defenseman in the NHL |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 3, 2005 21:53:24 GMT -5
Its a salary cap world. The New England Patriots, largely regarded as the best managed team in pro-sports, will not hesitate for a second to cut a player if he doesn't fit their team needs, no matter what that player did for the team. Ask Troy Brown. Its not about meritocracy, its about asset management. Seems like Gainey applied the Pats recipe here: Didn't feel Hossa fit and did not hesitate to cut/trade him ragardless of how good he looked in camp. In many cases, people felt this summer that Gainey shouldn't even had resigned Hossa and were ready to cut him loose for zip. Asset management wise, Gainey got some AHL depth by resigning and then trading him. To go with your scenario, let's say Gainey keeps Hossa despite the fact that he doesn't like/want him. Door #1: Marcel has a great start, plays big and finally displays consistenly the scorer touch we saw. Gainey can't trade him ( how many times do you see a hot player getting traded ?), he keeps him and all of sudden those that he wanted in the NHL (Zhogin/Higgins) are stuck in the AHL... Door #2: Marcel has a bad start, Gainey can no longer carry an underperformer on his team and must move him but there are no longer takers out there.... Gainey waives him in order to bring up Higgins, Sather (the little devil) picks him and Bob must now pay 300K of Hossa's salary... ...If it was me I would have kept Hossa on my 3rd line and waive/trade Sundstrom instead (Julien said that many teams were interested...). Hossa flops, move Plekanek in his spot and sit him in the press box until someone wants him for future consideration, conditional picks, or something... |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 3, 2005 22:02:17 GMT -5
That many teams were interested in Sundstrom is an indication of his value relative to Hossa's around the league.
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Post by Cranky on Oct 4, 2005 22:13:44 GMT -5
Dyment? Has anyone seen the Dyment thread? There is one thing about this board. If there is ANYWAY we can find even the finest minutia, we WILL discuss it!  |
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Post by clear observer on Oct 5, 2005 5:36:53 GMT -5
This move reminds me of Bush's move against Hussein....
...why him....why now?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 5, 2005 7:16:43 GMT -5
This move reminds me of Bush's move against Hussein.... ...why him....why now? It has to do with the letter "H". Hossa (and Hainsey) had exhausted his period of Habilitation. Dans la langue française la lettre "h" est presque silencieuse. That is my theory, and my theory alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2005 10:16:37 GMT -5
Hossa got a goal last night for the Rangers.
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Post by jkr on Oct 6, 2005 12:25:57 GMT -5
Hossa got a goal last night for the Rangers. I hope we aren't going to follow him from game to game.  Really, let's have a look at his progress over a month or so, especially when this Ranger lineup hits the doldrums. We've seen this kind of spurt ( I'm including camp) from Hossa before. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2005 12:50:16 GMT -5
Hossa got a goal last night for the Rangers. I hope we aren't going to follow him from game to game. You mean like Crosby? Do they follow him with cameras everywhere he goes? It's like they're ignoring the fact that they got shelled 5-1. |
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Post by jkr on Oct 6, 2005 16:02:16 GMT -5
I hope we aren't going to follow him from game to game. You mean like Crosby? Do they follow him with cameras everywhere he goes? It's like they're ignoring the fact that they got shelled 5-1. Michael Farber of SI is following him this week and I heard one of the Toronto papers (I think it's the Globe) has assigned a reporter to him all year. I wonder if one of the Montreal papers will follow Hossa around all year? |
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Post by MC Habber on Oct 7, 2005 17:25:46 GMT -5
Stats don't show work ethic and desire. Hossa could have garnered favour if he even remotely showed desire to work. Hossa gets a bad rap from us, but when he was successful it wasn't on talent alone, he did show work ethic and desire. |
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Post by Toronthab on Oct 8, 2005 23:15:14 GMT -5
This move reminds me of Bush's move against Hussein.... ...why him....why now? Ha ha ha |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 11, 2005 1:28:52 GMT -5
Dyment? Has anyone seen the Dyment thread? There is one thing about this board. If there is ANYWAY we can find even the finest minutia, we WILL discuss it! I would like to keep all prospects and never lose any. The reality is Hossa had several chances to make the team and fell short every time. He's still young and may have a very good NHL career somewhere else, but the brain trust sees Higgins, Pleks and Perez as more valuable at this time. Hossa has more skill than Murray, but Murray has more grit. Hossa may score a lot more goals in his career, but it won't be in Montreal. Whatever happened to baby Dyment? |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 11, 2005 14:23:56 GMT -5
Bring back Chouinard!
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Post by drkcloud on Oct 17, 2005 23:30:12 GMT -5
hmmm i see hossa has 6 points after 7 games, tied with Kovalev. he would be tied for best in goals as well.
hmmmm
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 18, 2005 6:14:56 GMT -5
hmmm i see hossa has 6 points after 7 games, tied with Kovalev. he would be tied for best in goals as well. hmmmm Good for him. Now let's see if he spends 40 games wandering around the ice. Anyway, no use crying over spilt milk—we have Dagenais. |
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