|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 17, 2015 9:18:05 GMT -5
DD as a third line winger is just fine. Takes away those tough defensive responsibilities, gets him shooting more, and keeps him away from the temptation to just find Max and attempt to pass to him. This also enables a top three centre group of Chucky, Pleks and Eller in whatever order or combination MT feels fit (he will juggle anyway). For home games, MT can even make sure there are more favourable line matchups for this line too. It has to be something. If we roll out the same top 3 centers (Pleks, DD, Eller), the same guys who haven't gotten it done in 4 years... I just don't know what Berg is expecting to happen next year that we haven't already seen. Moving DD to the wing, if nothing else, would create a new dynamic. But besides fixing the PP, and assuming there is no deal between now and the season, Berg/MT have to get creative with the roster and take some chances on young guys. I'd love to see Bournival stick, and for one of Hudon, Carr, or Scherbak to make the team. Pax/Pleks/Gallagher Hudon/Galchenyuk/DD Bournival/Eller/Kassian Flynn/Mitchell/Weise/DSP A younger, feistier lineup with hopefully a bit more pop.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 17, 2015 10:30:16 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. If true I wonder who caves in first.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 17, 2015 11:01:30 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. but it was his choice not to during the last season. wasn't it??
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 17, 2015 11:08:48 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. but it was his choice not to during the last season. wasn't it?? That's MT story and he's sticking to it!!
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Jul 17, 2015 11:30:15 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. If true I wonder who caves in first. If he can play centre on the top 2 lines we could get rid of DD and Pleks. Think of the cap space opened up. But does Chucky have the stamina - that's a lot of ice time
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 17, 2015 11:32:29 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. If true I wonder who caves in first. If that is so, than Galchenyuk will end up waiting a long time... and rightfuly so... a 21yr old who wants guaranteed assignment in his contract... forget about it. Would be surprised if even Brisson goes along with that kind of request... Then again, if the kid is so unhappy with how he's being handled than Berg should start feeling the water for what his value is around the league. Really Galchenyuk's responsabilities grew every season, going from an average icetime of 12, to 14, to 16 and being a fixture in the top 6 and on the PP. He even got to play a bunch of games as the first line center...
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 17, 2015 11:55:08 GMT -5
Am hearing the Galchenyuk will not sign with the Habs unless in his contract it guarantees that he plays centre on the top 2 lines. If true I wonder who caves in first. If that is so, than Galchenyuk will end up waiting a long time... and rightfuly so... a 21yr old who wants guaranteed assignment in his contract... forget about it. Would be surprised if even Brisson goes along with that kind of request... Then again, if the kid is so unhappy with how he's being handled than Berg should start feeling the water for what his value is around the league. Really Galchenyuk's responsabilities grew every season, going from an average icetime of 12, to 14, to 16 and being a fixture in the top 6 and on the PP. He even got to play a bunch of games as the first line center... Pretty much my thoughts as well. But, I can see his point, if he feels he is being misused by the coach..as many of us do. It will affect his next contract, basically taking away future earnings. He is preparing for his first UFA contract, if he is allowed to perform the way he thinks he can, then he will cash in. If he feels that he is being held back he would feel resentment towards the coach and the club.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 17, 2015 12:14:33 GMT -5
I don't even buy it. Contracts don't work that way. If anything, Galchenyuk and his agent want to know how Bergevin sees the next 2 years going on the ice. But I strongly doubt they would make that a condition to signing a deal and I feel bad that someone is throwing Galchy under the bus.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jul 17, 2015 12:40:25 GMT -5
I can't see that condition being tabled…UNLESS…Galchenyuk and his camp are convinced Therrien will keep him on the wing.
And if Bergevin's post-season presser was any indication, the situation is arguably leaning that way.
What a shame if somebody somehow ends up pooching our #3 overall pick.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 17, 2015 12:51:01 GMT -5
I can't see that condition being tabled…UNLESS…Galchenyuk and his camp are convinced Therrien will keep him on the wing. And if Bergevin's post-season presser was any indication, the situation is arguably leaning that way. What a shame if somebody somehow ends up pooching our #3 overall pick. All I am hearing is that he is concerned about his future contracts. As far as the conditions I think people are trying to fill in the blanks.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 17, 2015 12:51:15 GMT -5
Really Galchenyuk's responsabilities grew every season, going from an average icetime of 12, to 14, to 16 and being a fixture in the top 6 and on the PP. He even got to play a bunch of games as the first line center... I doubt any kind of on-ice useage would be part of any contract. You can't tie a coach's hands that way. What if the Habs end up with Toews and Crosby as their top centres? One of them has to move down for Galchenyuk? How does one determine which is the top line...and so on and so on. No, a GM can't agree to that kind of requirement, but I'm not sure that Galchy's role has necessarily improved every year. He may have gotten more ice time, but could he have handled even more? Could he have spent even more time at centre? There are some of us who feel that would have been the better long term way to go. Therrien can point at Galchenyuk's defensive shortcomings to bolster his position, but if someone else points out Desharnais' defensive shortcomings despite the amount of protection he gets from Therrien, he doesn't give a damn. As we've said many times, I don't mind Desharnais as a third line LW, where he can exploit his superior abilities over other 3rd and 4th line players. He's being mis-used, which seems to be a continuing refrain on the board. DD, misused, Galchy misused, Markov misused, Emelin mis-used, Eller mis-used Tinordi, not used. I hope MT listens a bit to that Advanced Stats guy (Crowd rolls on the floor laughing).
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 17, 2015 13:29:36 GMT -5
Preach it, 17. I don't know if Berg and Therrien are just thinking they can coast on the 110-point season without really looking under the hood, but I sense a bit of complacency creeping in. Sign low-level guys to the bottom 6, don't tinker too much up front, or on the back end, maybe break camp with a guy like Hudon in the mix.... easy stuff. And I'm fine with not making a splashy trade for now if Berg can't find the deal he wants. But he CAN insist that we take a different approach this year. And that's where MT comes in. My fear is this team will never win a Cup under Therrien. It just won't. He'd rather lean on his pets, avoid taking risks, and generally not put guys in the best position to succeed if it means giving up control.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jul 17, 2015 15:57:19 GMT -5
I can't see that condition being tabled…UNLESS…Galchenyuk and his camp are convinced Therrien will keep him on the wing. And if Bergevin's post-season presser was any indication, the situation is arguably leaning that way. What a shame if somebody somehow ends up pooching our #3 overall pick. All I am hearing is that he is concerned about his future contracts. As far as the conditions I think people are trying to fill in the blanks. I'm just commenting on the one condition that you posted....that Galchenyuk's camp wants a guarantee in the contract that he'll play centre in the Top 6. If true...then two things are clear. 1. He believes he can reach his playing/earning potential at centre. 2. He doesn't think Therrien will put him there. If Bergevin allows the condition, it would undermine Therrien's control with the team. Many potential negative ramifications. If Bergevin doesn't allow it, Galchenyuk (if the report is true) won't sign. Which means he might be gone....and Therrien will feel the heat from fans/media to relent before it's too late...and extreme heat if Galchenyuk is traded. The other choice, of course, is to fire the coach.... Nope... Too much drama that I really don't think is there.....so I'm dubious about the report.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 17, 2015 16:29:32 GMT -5
I'm going to call baloney sandwich on this one. The logistics of trying to guarantee such a stipulation would be outrageous, if not actually physically impossible. Along with the "Crosby/Malkin" situation outlined above what would happen if both Crosby and Malkin also had guaranteed position clauses in their contracts? Brisson is Crosby's agent too, after all. So say Galchenyuk gets that guarantee, and then maybe Plekanec gets that guarantee in his next contract, and then Bergevin trades for Malkin, who also has that guarantee. Now you've got three centers who have legally binding contracts saying that they have to play as top two centers. What then? Does the league void the trade? Or do they wait and see if Bergevin then deals one of the other "guaranteed center" contracts? How long does Bergevin have?
And how would you even determine if a player was playing on the top two lines, if only anecdotally? Tampa's "third" line often outplayed it's first line this past playoffs. Would that void Steven Stamkos' contract if he had a clause that said he had to be the #1 center? If a line out-produces his line, does that mean he's not on the first line anymore? What would determine this "first line" designation? Is it linemates? Wouldn't that open a can of worms. The media? The fans? Oh boy. Is it minutes played? How do you calculate that? Is it by game? What if there are a lot of penalties, and Lars Eller is four minutes ahead of Galchenyuk with three minutes to play? Do the Habs forfeit? Does Galchenyuk immediately become an unrestricted free agent as his contract is not being honored? Does the timer buzz in with four minutes left, indicating to Therrien that he has to play Galchenyuk for the rest of the game, non-stop? If it's on a per-season basis well then you have the same problem. At some point you're going to reach a tipping point where it would be physically impossible for Galchenyuk to "catch up" in his minutes, thus I am assuming voiding his contract.
Which of course would be completely against the CBA.
Also against the CBA would be giving bonuses, or perhaps better put, "consolation prizes" if Galchenyuk doesn't meet the "top two center" criteria, however it is defined, by the end of the year. As in, "sure we'll give you a top 2 center role, but if you don't get those minutes we'll give you a million dollar bonus." Not allowed, as bonuses are highly regulated by the CBA.
There would just be no way to "guarantee" such a designation in his contract. It's just not possible.
Restricted free agents get hammered in the NHL. That's just the way it is. Teams hold all the leverage, and if they don't use it we end up with more lockouts. Heck, during the last lockout I even proposed a way to counter-balance this, to give younger players more leverage, when I suggested that they remove the draft pick compensation from teams making offering sheets. Give the original team the right to match any offer sheet (the "restricted" part), but if they don't match the young player is free to leave. In this way a guy like Galchenyuk would have some leverage; he can say "Team X has no centers and their GM has told me they want me to play there, so I'm going to sign their offer sheet so as to not hurt my future earning potential". He could still have some say over the direction of his career. Which is really just a second heaping of that sandwich anyways, as we've seen lots of guys have one great season and cash in, so really Galchenyuk still has four years to rack up a good season. He doesn't need it guaranteed into his contract now, to protect his UFA earnings in the future.
And even if he did need to guarantee it now, even if he did fear for his career because of the actions of his coach, well boo-hoo. Welcome to the real world. If your boss gives the big account to Joe Bozo in Cubicle C, who you personally think is an idiot, well there isn't a heck of a lot you can do about it, right? Life isn't fair. Never has been. Deal with it, put your head down, do your job and hope that eventually the universe will reward you.
The ONLY leverage a coach has is ice-time. That's it. He makes less money than almost all of his players, and he knows that for the most part his life-span will be shorter too. In a battle with a star player he cannot count on fan or media support, and usually won't get support from management either. The ONLY thing he can do to bend a player to his will is limit ice time and opportunities. That's the only whip he has to get players to do what he, the coach, thinks is best. If you take that away from a coach, by guaranteeing something in a player's contract... well, might as well hand the keys over to the inmates.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 17, 2015 16:45:56 GMT -5
Summer doldrums.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 17, 2015 17:12:02 GMT -5
RFA contracts are made to benefit the team, and the PA was good with that because they lowered the age and term for UFA status. They made their beds now live with it. Gally is just going through the same thing PK did. It worked out well for PK!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 17:34:19 GMT -5
MT is on a short leash this season, I'm guessing that MB and the rest of his management team see the same things that we do. That he's a lunch pail coach and this young team is learning work ethic from him, soon he'll find a coach that can bring out the offensive side, but only when they're ready.
I should have refreshed the page before posting, because I was going to use the same "baloney" reference that somebody did above my post.
Total and complete baloney sandwich, with lettuce and mustard.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 17, 2015 18:32:08 GMT -5
RFA contracts are made to benefit the team, and the PA was good with that because they lowered the age and term for UFA status. They made their beds now live with it. Gally is just going through the same thing PK did. It worked out well for PK!! There may be a shift happening, though. This year, we've seen D. Hamilton traded because he didn't want to remain in Boston and the Bruins were definitely concerned about losing him to an offer sheet. Hamilton signed a long term agreement, taking him beyond his UFA deadline. Brandon Saad was also traded, partly for CAP reasons, but also because he felt he was worth more than he was being offered by the Hawks. The Avs finally dumped O'Rielly because he had figured this out a couple of years ago and earned more than similar players on other teams. All three of these guys (and perhaps Galchenyuk now) feel they're worth more than the team is offering them. They may be willing to give up term and some UFA years, but it's the RFA's getting the big pay checks this summer, not the UFA's. That's keeping in mind that it was a weak UFA crop this year.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 17, 2015 18:33:35 GMT -5
I grew up on baloney sandwiches ... kind of partial to BLTs nowadays ... toasted, tomato and ham ... toasted, tomato and baloney ... light on the mayo with salt and pepper ... all works ... I don't know how negotiations are going, but I can't see Bergevin losing Galchenyuk ... that's just me and my BLT, though ... come to think of it, I kind of like Spam, lettuce and mustard sandwiches, too ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 17, 2015 19:38:38 GMT -5
For me, a nice M.L.T, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 18, 2015 9:01:16 GMT -5
Thinking a bit more about this...
While it's safe to assume that no guarantees can or will be inked in a contract, it's equally safe to assume that role and responsabilities are being discussed. It's part of the decision process of every important contract. Galchenyuk is just an RFA but if his role is an issue for him he certainly will want to talk about this.
...it's not unheard of. We all remember a young Pacioretty public stand-off "...either play me in top 6 or leave me in Hamilton..."... he was in no contract talks then but he was not happy with how he was utilized... and really Max is no problem child but he wanted to be the player he can be...
Galchenyuk's game is not suited to be a corridor winger who has to chase for dump pucks behind the net. If he does not want to be "that player" for the next 3 years or so, than it's probably something that surfaces right now...
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 18, 2015 14:05:40 GMT -5
I'm going to call baloney sandwich on this one. The logistics of trying to guarantee such a stipulation would be outrageous, if not actually physically impossible. Along with the "Crosby/Malkin" situation outlined above what would happen if both Crosby and Malkin also had guaranteed position clauses in their contracts? Brisson is Crosby's agent too, after all. So say Galchenyuk gets that guarantee, and then maybe Plekanec gets that guarantee in his next contract, and then Bergevin trades for Malkin, who also has that guarantee. Now you've got three centers who have legally binding contracts saying that they have to play as top two centers. What then? Does the league void the trade? Or do they wait and see if Bergevin then deals one of the other "guaranteed center" contracts? How long does Bergevin have? And how would you even determine if a player was playing on the top two lines, if only anecdotally? Tampa's "third" line often outplayed it's first line this past playoffs. Would that void Steven Stamkos' contract if he had a clause that said he had to be the #1 center? If a line out-produces his line, does that mean he's not on the first line anymore? What would determine this "first line" designation? Is it linemates? Wouldn't that open a can of worms. The media? The fans? Oh boy. Is it minutes played? How do you calculate that? Is it by game? What if there are a lot of penalties, and Lars Eller is four minutes ahead of Galchenyuk with three minutes to play? Do the Habs forfeit? Does Galchenyuk immediately become an unrestricted free agent as his contract is not being honored? Does the timer buzz in with four minutes left, indicating to Therrien that he has to play Galchenyuk for the rest of the game, non-stop? If it's on a per-season basis well then you have the same problem. At some point you're going to reach a tipping point where it would be physically impossible for Galchenyuk to "catch up" in his minutes, thus I am assuming voiding his contract. Which of course would be completely against the CBA. Also against the CBA would be giving bonuses, or perhaps better put, "consolation prizes" if Galchenyuk doesn't meet the "top two center" criteria, however it is defined, by the end of the year. As in, "sure we'll give you a top 2 center role, but if you don't get those minutes we'll give you a million dollar bonus." Not allowed, as bonuses are highly regulated by the CBA. There would just be no way to "guarantee" such a designation in his contract. It's just not possible. Restricted free agents get hammered in the NHL. That's just the way it is. Teams hold all the leverage, and if they don't use it we end up with more lockouts. Heck, during the last lockout I even proposed a way to counter-balance this, to give younger players more leverage, when I suggested that they remove the draft pick compensation from teams making offering sheets. Give the original team the right to match any offer sheet (the "restricted" part), but if they don't match the young player is free to leave. In this way a guy like Galchenyuk would have some leverage; he can say "Team X has no centers and their GM has told me they want me to play there, so I'm going to sign their offer sheet so as to not hurt my future earning potential". He could still have some say over the direction of his career. Which is really just a second heaping of that sandwich anyways, as we've seen lots of guys have one great season and cash in, so really Galchenyuk still has four years to rack up a good season. He doesn't need it guaranteed into his contract now, to protect his UFA earnings in the future. And even if he did need to guarantee it now, even if he did fear for his career because of the actions of his coach, well boo-hoo. Welcome to the real world. If your boss gives the big account to Joe Bozo in Cubicle C, who you personally think is an idiot, well there isn't a heck of a lot you can do about it, right? Life isn't fair. Never has been. Deal with it, put your head down, do your job and hope that eventually the universe will reward you. The ONLY leverage a coach has is ice-time. That's it. He makes less money than almost all of his players, and he knows that for the most part his life-span will be shorter too. In a battle with a star player he cannot count on fan or media support, and usually won't get support from management either. The ONLY thing he can do to bend a player to his will is limit ice time and opportunities. That's the only whip he has to get players to do what he, the coach, thinks is best. If you take that away from a coach, by guaranteeing something in a player's contract... well, might as well hand the keys over to the inmates. Yeah sounds like maybe this got taken outta context and blown up.... cause I never been a part of negotiating a contract but im sure there is talk of where the player wants to play and /or a position. I can almost guarantee Tinordi asked for assurances too... his agent wouldn't be doing his job if he did. but you would think its a verbal thing.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Jul 18, 2015 21:44:42 GMT -5
All BC's points are valid. I would only add that if you want to completely undermine work ethic, merit, and team unity, guarantee a player, any player even Crosby, a designated place in the line up regardless how he performs. The whole notion is ridiculous and would be bush league. We're not in Kansas (City) anymore!
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jul 19, 2015 14:22:09 GMT -5
I can understand Galchenyuk's camp clearly wanting to define his role AT CENTER, in private. I don't believe for a second that he would a) use it as a negotiating tactic, or b) do it publicly.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 20, 2015 9:43:14 GMT -5
I can understand Galchenyuk's camp clearly wanting to define his role AT CENTER, in private. I don't believe for a second that he would a) use it as a negotiating tactic, or b) do it publicly. I would absolutely use it as a negotiating tactic....it would be above term and money if I was the player. I don't think he was doing it publicly, I'm not even convinced that there is any truth to the whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Jul 20, 2015 19:28:47 GMT -5
What I've heard so far this summer makes me think it's safe to ignore Hab hockey until the middle of September. There weren't any big trades, draft day didn't produce a glowing star or a veteran gunslinger, and an unrepentant Therrien is still in pkace. What am I hearing besides a whiny infant complaining about his last diaper change? Can anyone on this board dream that the Habs will improve upon their 110-point season?
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jul 21, 2015 8:08:43 GMT -5
Preach it, 17. I don't know if Berg and Therrien are just thinking they can coast on the 110-point season without really looking under the hood, but I sense a bit of complacency creeping in. Sign low-level guys to the bottom 6, don't tinker too much up front, or on the back end, maybe break camp with a guy like Hudon in the mix.... easy stuff. And I'm fine with not making a splashy trade for now if Berg can't find the deal he wants. But he CAN insist that we take a different approach this year. And that's where MT comes in. My fear is this team will never win a Cup under Therrien. It just won't. He'd rather lean on his pets, avoid taking risks, and generally not put guys in the best position to succeed if it means giving up control. Your preaching to the WD and Franko choir BH. That has been my single biggest concern with MT since the start of his second season as head coach.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jul 21, 2015 10:05:06 GMT -5
Can anyone on this board dream that the Habs will improve upon their 110-point season? I'm of the camp that thinks without Price's 4-trophy season, we'd have missed the playoffs. 13 fewer points would've been 97….and early tee times. Price was single-handedly responsible for way more than 13 points. 24 games allowing only 1 goal. 23-0-1. Of that record….(not sure of Tokarski's contribution.) 8 games were 2-1. 7 games were 3-1. (not sure about the empty-netters). 1 game was a 1-0 OTL. 31 pts. 9 shutouts. Of that record….(again, not sure about Toker's contribution here.) 2 games were 1-0. 3 games were 2-0. 10 pts. 41 pts. due to outstanding goaltending…and the vast majority from Price. It also took a remarkable shutout performance--basically 1-0 on the road--in Game 6 to knock off Ottawa in Round 1. Price is the stick holding the Cup window open….plain and simple. When I start seeing more "convincing" wins, I'll be more convinced there'll be a parade in the near future. Max's 12-week knee injury/rehab could play havoc with the first quarter of the season…..and if Berg's only feasible strategy is to stand pat and hope for AHL and "right out of Jr." players to compensate……I say good luck.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 21, 2015 12:08:39 GMT -5
Jon Cooper took Tampa to the SC finals with pretty mediocre goaltending IMO. The Lightning skate and move and take chances...and score.
Chris Boucher operates a hockey data analysis business and on Twitter he posted a clip of the Cup Winning OT goal from two years ago by Alec Martinez. Martinez recovers a Ranger rebound in his own end, skates it out, passes to the right winger. Zuccarello foolishly leaves his man Martinez and the winger shoots and Martinez puts in the rebound. Boucher's whole argument is that it would have been so easy (OT, tight game) to safely chip the puck out off the glass, but instead Martinez (a defenseman) carries it out and starts the possession play into the NY end.
You can guess the point of this story. If Martinez was a Hab, chances are he chips the puck off the glass or boards into "safe" neutral zone territory, where the Rangers can recover it and start another attack. Until we start playing a possession, 'risky' game (which is usually safer than chipping it off the glass), we are going nowhere. As CH says, if we don't give Carey some actual scoring support, we have a pretty good chance of missing the playoffs. We may not truly appreciate how outstanding Carey's year was, until a number of years have passed and we look back. It's too bad his performance is sheltering a bad system.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 21, 2015 12:18:36 GMT -5
It's too bad his performance is sheltering a bad system. and a mediocre co....
|
|