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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 10, 2009 10:34:41 GMT -5
Lecavalier's agent actually took the time to contact RDS to tell them that these rumors had no basis...
...wonder what Good 'ole Ron will say about that.
I can dream about you
If I can't hold you tonight
-Dan HArtman
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 10, 2009 13:19:12 GMT -5
Darren Dreger, who is basically an on-camera Eklund, said last night that, despite the denials, he wouldn't rule out Tampa moving Vinnie IF the right price was paid.
Trading roster players, prospects, and/or picks PLUS taking on that contract almost makes it utterly foolish.....BUT....
If Gretzky was traded.......................
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Post by Skilly on Jan 11, 2009 10:01:25 GMT -5
Darren Dreger, who is basically an on-camera Eklund, said last night that, despite the denials, he wouldn't rule out Tampa moving Vinnie IF the right price was paid. Trading roster players, prospects, and/or picks PLUS taking on that contract almost makes it utterly foolish.....BUT.... If Gretzky was traded....................... The Satellite Hotstove panel said that it would take both Kostitsyn (Strachan actually said "both Komisarek brothers") brothers, 2 first rounders, and Komisarek. Ahhhh where do I sign? ........ |
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Post by cigarviper on Jan 11, 2009 10:09:51 GMT -5
Darren Dreger, who is basically an on-camera Eklund, said last night that, despite the denials, he wouldn't rule out Tampa moving Vinnie IF the right price was paid. Trading roster players, prospects, and/or picks PLUS taking on that contract almost makes it utterly foolish.....BUT.... If Gretzky was traded....................... The Satellite Hotstove panel said that it would take both Kostitsyn (Strachan actually said "both Komisarek brothers") brothers, 2 first rounders, and Komisarek. Ahhhh where do I sign? ........ Dude. Really? That contract plus purchase price makes him undesireable to me. He's good but not that good. If he wanted to be here that's one thing but he made his feelings known far and wide when he signed on the dotted line in Tampa. |
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Post by roke on Jan 11, 2009 14:58:47 GMT -5
Darren Dreger, who is basically an on-camera Eklund, said last night that, despite the denials, he wouldn't rule out Tampa moving Vinnie IF the right price was paid. Trading roster players, prospects, and/or picks PLUS taking on that contract almost makes it utterly foolish.....BUT.... If Gretzky was traded....................... The Satellite Hotstove panel said that it would take both Kostitsyn (Strachan actually said "both Komisarek brothers") brothers, 2 first rounders, and Komisarek. Ahhhh where do I sign? ........ Kostitsyn brothers are non-starters for me, we'd have too many centres and not enough wingers if we made that trade. Trading Komisarek would weaken our defense to the point where we would not be contenders. Gainey would be nuts to do that trade. I'd consider Higgins, Plekanec, a D prospect not named McDonagh (or Fischer if I could get away with it), and a 1st. We maintain the depth on the wings we have right now, upgrade over Plekanec at centre, don't cripple our D. Do we even have the cap room to go out and trade for Lecavalier at this point? I took a glance at the numbers last week, and I don't think anything can be worked out until the season is over |
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Post by jkr on Jan 11, 2009 16:02:49 GMT -5
The Satellite Hotstove panel said that it would take both Kostitsyn (Strachan actually said "both Komisarek brothers") brothers, 2 first rounders, and Komisarek. Ahhhh where do I sign? ........ Dude. Really? That contract plus purchase price makes him undesireable to me. He's good but not that good. If he wanted to be here that's one thing but he made his feelings known far and wide when he signed on the dotted line in Tampa. Agreed. A top tier talent like Marian Hossa garnered two very average forwards in Armstrong & Christensen, a prospect (Esposito) & a 1st. I don't think Lecavalier is worth much more than that, especially when you are taking that huge contract off Tampa's hands. That has to be worth a lot. |
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Post by roke on Jan 11, 2009 16:19:04 GMT -5
Dude. Really? That contract plus purchase price makes him undesireable to me. He's good but not that good. If he wanted to be here that's one thing but he made his feelings known far and wide when he signed on the dotted line in Tampa. Agreed. A top tier talent like Marian Hossa garnered two very average forwards in Armstrong & Christensen, a prospect (Esposito) & a 1st. I don't think Lecavalier is worth much more than that, especially when you are taking that huge contract off Tampa's hands. That has to be worth a lot. Except for the whole him being made of glass and his contract being expiring, I would bet that the Forsberg trade to Nashville would be a good comparison as to what Tampa will probably get for Vinny, if they trade him. I wouldn't be surprised if that ownership group put 5 elephants on the ice in the faceoff circles given what they have done so far. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 11, 2009 16:25:26 GMT -5
The Satellite Hotstove panel said that it would take both Kostitsyn (Strachan actually said "both Komisarek brothers") brothers, 2 first rounders, and Komisarek. Ahhhh where do I sign? ........ Kostitsyn brothers are non-starters for me, we'd have too many centres and not enough wingers if we made that trade. Trading Komisarek would weaken our defense to the point where we would not be contenders. Gainey would be nuts to do that trade. I'd consider Higgins, Plekanec, a D prospect not named McDonagh (or Fischer if I could get away with it), and a 1st. We maintain the depth on the wings we have right now, upgrade over Plekanec at centre, don't cripple our D. Do we even have the cap room to go out and trade for Lecavalier at this point? I took a glance at the numbers last week, and I don't think anything can be worked out until the season is over You are not going to get a talent like Lecavalier for nothing ... why would Tampa take both our struggling roster players? We'd have to give them someone who is producing consistently, to replace Vinny ... and that isn't Higgins or Plekanec. Also Tampa would be taking a huge risk in taking Komi, who is a UFA, and probably going to garner more than they are willing to pay on the open market. Do we have the room? A. Kosty (3.25) + S. Kosty (0.817) + Komisarek (1.9) = 5.967 Vinny = 6.875 The difference is 0.912 ..... of which we'd only have to pay half of it. Right now, because of all the call-ups we only have 0.129 cap space, but a simple roster move like demoting Chichura or Weber and we have all the cap room we need to trade for Vinny. |
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Post by franko on Jan 11, 2009 17:52:40 GMT -5
Roke jkr: I don't think you can compare Vinny to Hossa, as Hossa was a rental with a re-sign possible, wehreas Vinny is locked up long term.
Skilly: Maybe we have room to fit Vinny in this year, but what about in the future? Add to that the fact that while we lose the Kosty's and Komi, they need to be replaced. Can we still afford it? Does the addition of Vinny and players brought up from the minors make us better than status quo?
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Post by roke on Jan 11, 2009 17:56:19 GMT -5
Roke: I don't think you can compare Vinny to Hossa, as Hossa was a rental with a re-sign possible, wehreas Vinny is locked up long term. Skilly: Maybe we have room to fit Vinny in this year, but what about in the future? Add to that the fact that while we lose the Kosty's and Komi, they need to be replaced. Can we still afford it? Does the addition of Vinny and players brought up from the minors make us better than status quo? Fair point Franko,although jkr brought up Hossa, I went with another player with an expiring contract when he was traded, Forsberg). The Forsberg trade is probably the most lucrative trade to happen recently where it was a package moved for basically one player. Expiring contract, yes, but I can't think of any bigger package-for-one deals off the top of my head. My main concern would be replacing Komisarek, we already need a defenseman so we don't have Brisebois/Weber/O'Byrne playing in the playoffs, getting rid of Komisarek would make our D corps very, very porous, something like: Hamrlik-Gorges Markov-Weber/O'Byrne Boullion-Brisebois Trading Komisarek in a package to get Lecavalier upgrades the team and centre, but creates a huge hole on defense. If you make the trade the only way we get past the second round is if Price plays like Hasek in '99, or Roy in '86/'93, or Giguere in Anaheim's run to the cup final. |
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Post by franko on Jan 11, 2009 18:43:50 GMT -5
Roke: I don't think you can compare Vinny to Hossa, as Hossa was a rental with a re-sign possible, whereas Vinny is locked up long term. Fair point Franko,although jkr brought up Hossa, I went with another player with an expiring contract when he was traded, Forsberg). oops . . . sorry . . . editted to admit the error of my ways. Right. While there are many Komi detractors here [everyone has his favourite whipping boy, no?], whether or not he is a "number 4 d playing as a number 2", he is our number 2 d-man. Tracde him without a replacement [or even let him walk this summer without one] and we are indeed very very weak on d. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 11, 2009 18:49:01 GMT -5
Roke jkr: I don't think you can compare Vinny to Hossa, as Hossa was a rental with a re-sign possible, wehreas Vinny is locked up long term. Skilly: Maybe we have room to fit Vinny in this year, but what about in the future? Add to that the fact that while we lose the Kosty's and Komi, they need to be replaced. Can we still afford it? Does the addition of Vinny and players brought up from the minors make us better than status quo? I say yes ... We've been bragging about our prospects for 2-3 yrs now, so if they are as good as many tout, then why not try to get that big-fish. OK we lose the Kostitsyns and Komisarek .... but next year we gain Weber, McDonnagh, Emelin (?), D'Agostini full time, Pacioretty full time.... heck, if anyone is worried about the loss of Komisarek, then I would thank my lucky stars that Tampa didn't want Higgins in the deal. Toronto has been coveting Higgins now for some time, we can deal him for Kaberle. |
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Post by jkr on Jan 11, 2009 21:28:32 GMT -5
Roke jkr: I don't think you can compare Vinny to Hossa, as Hossa was a rental with a re-sign possible, wehreas Vinny is locked up long term. /quote] True enough but talent wise, I feel they are close. Right now I think I would prefer a player with a shorter term deal. like Kovalchuk, rather than commit to somebody for 9-10 years. |
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Post by HFTO on Jan 11, 2009 23:15:42 GMT -5
The TSN panel discussing the problems in Tampa still had Gainey pressing hard for Vinny even though they speculate he doesn't want to be here.
Dreger tossed out a package of Pleks Higgins and Subban plus possibly picks.
If that were true in the present given Higgins is hurt and Subban is only in the system you could look at that trade today as Basically Vinny for Pleks..I'd seriosly consider it.Vinnys tag is steep and given the economy and possible cap situation I'm sure T Bay wants out now.More fuel fore the fire iIguess.
HFTO
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Post by franko on Jan 12, 2009 6:54:06 GMT -5
Right now I think I would prefer a player with a shorter term deal. like Kovalchuk, rather than commit to somebody for 9-10 years. That, I think, would be my main problem with Vinny. That's a long time and a lot of money for anyone. otoh, if he leads us to the Promised Land two or three times in those nine years, it would be worth it, no? |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 12, 2009 9:17:29 GMT -5
Bob Mackenzie on the Team 990 this morning:
"I know the Lightning are trying to trade Vinny."
Paraphrasing the rest of the conversation;
Not saying its going to happen right away, or that its going to be a firesale, or that it will even happen, but according to other general managers when they call the Lightning they, being the Lightning, are entertaining offers and are not slamming the door on the possibility.
This is the team that trade Dan Boyle almost immediately after signing him to a long term contract, after all. Not that Boyle and Lecavalier are in the same class, but the new Tampa ownership is not, how shall we say it, the most stable group in the universe...
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Post by blny on Jan 12, 2009 9:42:47 GMT -5
I think you could argue Boyle and Lecavalier are in the same class. The Sharks are beyond happy with the play that Boyle has brought them.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 12, 2009 9:51:09 GMT -5
All fine and good that there are discussions between TB and Mtl about Vinny, but unfortunately if TB plays their cards right, they would be asking a ton in return, and I don't think Gainey should give up too many roster players. The organization appears to have depth, but I want to see more of players like D'Agostini and Pacioretty before I deem them ready for prime-time.
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Post by jkr on Jan 12, 2009 10:53:47 GMT -5
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Post by HFTO on Jan 12, 2009 13:10:42 GMT -5
I'd do this deal with the roster players mentioned,though I still think it's a longshot,however there are only a handful of team positioned to afford a deal t as far as $$ and players or prospects without taking a step back.
I'm not sure how volatile the economics are down there but if they can wait until prior to July 1 and find another suitor I'm sure Vinny would pick playing somewhere else.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be under the microscope 24/7 like he would be here.
He's got his cup and his place in the game he doesn't need the Habs.
This all aside what's with the league the Bolts are sold to a bunch of yahoos that go $$$ crazy and can't afford it good job again Gary.
HFTO
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Post by roke on Jan 12, 2009 16:27:20 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie's take: www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=262987From the article (toward the end): I have already stated taht I'm not a fan of trading Komisarek without getting an adequate replacement, the same can be said for Gorges. If we trade Gorges, and Komisarek ends up walking, the team would have 2 bona-fide NHL defensemen under contract (Markov, Hamrlik) after this season, and then a bunch of unproven youngsters. Not to mention that we would have less cap room to maneuver for a dman, and go into the playoffs with 2 of Brisebois/O'Byrne/Weber on defense. The multiple 1st rounders worries me a bit too. |
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Post by Andrew on Jan 12, 2009 16:29:15 GMT -5
Beat me to it on that link Roke.
There's also a video clip of Gainey commenting on the rumours - in very Gainey like fashion - giving nothing away, and pretty much stating the obvious:
He doesn't discuss trade rumours, so the players don't hear about them. Every player has a price, and if there's an opportunity to land an impact player, then they'll certainly evaluate the cost.
He's happy to have had the 3 months of the season to get a feel for where the cap is going, and how the young players in Hamilton and with the Habs are developing.
He doesn't have a sense of urgency.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 12, 2009 16:46:02 GMT -5
...If Tampa gets Higgins they don't need to ask for Komisarek, they could very well get him for free this summer...
This rumor is sure getting a lot wind to be completely unsubstanciated !
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Post by jkr on Jan 12, 2009 16:49:04 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie's take: www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=262987From the article (toward the end): I have already stated taht I'm not a fan of trading Komisarek without getting an adequate replacement, the same can be said for Gorges. If we trade Gorges, and Komisarek ends up walking, the team would have 2 bona-fide NHL defensemen under contract (Markov, Hamrlik) after this season, and then a bunch of unproven youngsters. Not to mention that we would have less cap room to maneuver for a dman, and go into the playoffs with 2 of Brisebois/O'Byrne/Weber on defense. The multiple 1st rounders worries me a bit too. I'm with you. The scenario of losing D men to trade or UFA scares me. What's the point of getting an impact forward if you don't have the D men to keep it out of your net? Leave Gorges out of this deal & I like it a lot better but the 10 year part of VL's deal gives me pause. Besides, hasn't Gainey already said he's looking for D help? |
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Post by roke on Jan 12, 2009 16:49:43 GMT -5
...If Tampa gets Higgins they don't need to ask for Komisarek, they could very well get him for free this summer... This rumor is sure getting a lot wind to be completely unsubstanciated ! Let me turn a fan on Doc  . From one of the non-Gazette bloggers on Habs Inside/Out habsinsideout.com/otherwing/ericengels/13623I don't know if any of the rumoured deals work out with regard to the salary cap. While there are a lot of media people talking about it citing sources (Pierre Lebrun had a story/blog post on ESPN where he said what we've been hearing), my expectations of a trade happening are lower than they were compared to Hossa at last year's trade deadline. I'm with you. The scenario of losing D men to trade or UFA scares me. What's the point of getting an impact forward if you don't have the D men to keep it out of your net? Leave Gorges out of this deal & I like it a lot better but the 10 year part of VL's deal gives me pause. Besides, hasn't Gainey already said he's looking for D help? With Price I'm not too concerned about relying on our D to keep the puck out of the net, he can do it with less help than say, Halak, but the forwards need someone to get the puck to them as well. Relying on Price to stop the puck and move it to the forwards might be a bit too much to ask ;D |
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Post by jkr on Jan 12, 2009 16:52:32 GMT -5
...If Tampa gets Higgins they don't need to ask for Komisarek, they could very well get him for free this summer... This rumor is sure getting a lot wind to be completely unsubstanciated ! Let me turn a fan on Doc . From one of the non-Gazette bloggers on Habs Inside/Out habsinsideout.com/otherwing/ericengels/13623I don't know if any of the rumoured deals work out with regard to the salary cap. While there are a lot of media people talking about it citing sources (Pierre Lebrun had a story/blog post on ESPN where he said what we've been hearing), my expectations of a trade happening are lower than they were compared to Hossa at last year's trade deadline. That 2nd deal doesn't make sense from a Tampa standpoint. If they are dealing VL to get futures, why would they take Lang? |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 12, 2009 16:53:08 GMT -5
Komi has very little value to Tampa in a trade. If Montreal trades him, there is no way Komi is going to give up his right to play wherever he wants next year at the highest price. And since Tampa isn't going to make the playoffs, his value as a playoff rental is zero.
Any trade with TB will probably include 2 roster forwards (AKost, Higgins/Pleks), a dman (Gorges), a high level prospect (McDonagh, Fischer, MaxPac), and multiple picks.
I still don't see the value to Tampa of trading Vinny, particularly from the perspective of ownership. They traded away Richards, signed Vinny to an 11-year extension only to trade him before the contract kicks in? What does that say to the fan base? Vinny is still only 28 and young enough to ride out a couple years of rebuilding. He would be the best player in the trade. Unless we overpaid by a big margin, I don't see what this does for the Bolts.
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Post by blny on Jan 12, 2009 16:53:44 GMT -5
I'm with you Roke. I'm hesitant to deal Gorges. I'd almost rather part with another prospect. He's not flashy, but Gorges is soooo steady for us. He eats up minutes, doesn't make mistakes, and plays above his size. At this point, he's cheap too. It's a tough call. Having to replace what Gorges can do via trade or FA could cost us more than what Gorges is making now.
I see the need for a bonafied #1 center in Montreal. Koivu's not getting younger. Plekanec, despite his recent upswing in play isn't a #1 center in this league. I just don't see it. Lang, who I'd consider re-signing strongly, is perfect as a #3. Is Vinny that #1? I don't know. Is he a very good player? Yes. Are there many centers available of his caliber? No. Do I like his contract? No. It's too long.
I'm extremely apprehensive about taking on a contract of that term and value. I just don't think it's prudent in this financial climate. Teams saddled with contracts like that could regret it very soon. Teams with too much money tied up in a select few lose their depth. I'd hate to see this team become a one trick, or one player, pony. We've gotten through this rash of injuries because of our depth.
Adding an elite player is important, and could put us over the hump. But, I'm not sure Vinny is the man, and I'm not sure I'd give them the package they want to get him.
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Post by roke on Jan 12, 2009 16:54:57 GMT -5
That 2nd deal doesn't make sense from a Tampa standpoint. If they are dealing VL to get futures, why would they take Lang? Agreed, the 2nd deal can't be true, unless it was an initial talking point from Gainey, hoping that Tampa would jump all over it like the Bruins jumped over the Thornton trade. I have to say I'd rather move Weber than Subban in the first trade (I love Subban's skating ability, and his charisma. Haven't seen much of either) but I have a feeling that after his WJC, he's a player Tampa would absolutely want. |
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Post by habsask on Jan 12, 2009 17:10:54 GMT -5
How come this isn't on the main BB for habs stuff instead of on the Non- Habs "Around the League" section ? Geez, no wonder I got scooped....I never look at anything besides the main board. Was wondering why it hadn't yet appeared. Miffed is what I am...embarraserd too....harumph...  Can an Administrator put this thread back where it belongs  Surely this qualifies as Montreal Canadiens Stuff ? If it doesn't I really don't know what does. |
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