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Post by BadCompany on Jan 16, 2009 13:17:30 GMT -5
...when I signed that contract, it was like wedding vows. Now it's like discovering your wife in bed with another men, during your honeymoon... I swear I had no idea that was Vinny's wife. I thought it was Jeff Halpern's. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 16, 2009 13:41:47 GMT -5
From Lecavalier: "I really don't know what management thinks, I don't know their goals. What I do know is that I feel the support of the community here, to which I tried to give as much as I could for the last 10 years. I don't know if the new owners are aware of that"Evidently Vinny wanted to stay in Tampa, forever, commited himself to it and now feels betrayed. He told this to Rejean Tremblay "...when I signed that contract, it was like wedding vows. Now it's like discovering your wife in bed with another men, during your honeymoon..."heck, when he met them, they only promise the owners could make was that he would be consulted in case of trade... Lawton can act like none of this was true, he's evidently lying. In this day and age where players are always criticized for being money driven mercenaries, the one who acted truly loyal got the shaft... But isn't this more proof that Vinny wants nothing to do with Montreal ...... and even if he did, whichI dont think he does, shouldn't he consider that cheating on his wife ... |
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Post by cigarviper on Jan 16, 2009 14:38:47 GMT -5
Seems to me that management was telling Vinny one thing and everyone else something completely different. Seeing the feedback from all corners they realize they have handled this the wrong way and are backtracking, especially from the fan base who are threatening to boycott the team if Vinny is moved.
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Post by franko on Jan 16, 2009 14:42:30 GMT -5
does this mean we can give the Vinny discussion a rest and move back to more important things like copyright infringement in the injuries thread?
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Post by clear observer on Jan 16, 2009 14:43:16 GMT -5
Seems to me that management was telling Vinny one thing and everyone else something completely different. Seeing the feedback from all corners they realize they have handled this the wrong way and are backtracking, especially from the fan base who are threatening to boycott the team if Vinny is moved. At his press conference, Brian Lawton struck me as someone having stepped in a big pile of goo. Something was stinky in that room, I'm sure. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 16, 2009 14:55:39 GMT -5
Something was stinky in that room, I'm sure. I'm sorry. Gotta learn to avoid that Thai food. Ahhh.. nothing like a good flatulence joke on Friday afternoon. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 16, 2009 15:52:44 GMT -5
But isn't this more proof that Vinny wants nothing to do with Montreal ...... and even if he did, whichI dont think he does, shouldn't he consider that cheating on his wife ... No, it's more proof that Vinny wanted to be in Tampa. To me there is a big difference between saying I want to play in Tampa and I never want to have anything to do with Montreal... That being said Montreal would be very heavy for him if his heart is not 100% in it... Interesting take from PAt Burns, in his opinion Vinny should get out of his comfy little stress free setup and come on to a hockey hot bed if he ever wants to be all the player he can be. And still in his opinion, Tampa needs a franchise player who wants to be a hockey God and carry his franchise, not a guy who's happy to hide there. I felt it was an interesting spin on things. |
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Post by jkr on Jan 16, 2009 16:21:22 GMT -5
Seems to me that management was telling Vinny one thing and everyone else something completely different. Seeing the feedback from all corners they realize they have handled this the wrong way and are backtracking, especially from the fan base who are threatening to boycott the team if Vinny is moved. At his press conference, Brian Lawton struck me as someone having stepped in a big pile of goo. Something was stinky in that room, I'm sure. As I stated in an earlier post, what struck me was Lawton's statement - VL won't be traded "any time soon". What he needed to say VL won't be traded - period. The way they have handled this is typical of the mess created since Barrie & Koules took over. They are amateurs. Based on Gainey's mode of operation we can safely say the leaks are coming from the Tampa side. They probably took a discreet inquiry about Lecavalier's availability & turned it into a media frenzy. |
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Post by jkr on Jan 16, 2009 16:23:06 GMT -5
But isn't this more proof that Vinny wants nothing to do with Montreal ...... and even if he did, whichI dont think he does, shouldn't he consider that cheating on his wife ... No, it's more proof that Vinny wanted to be in Tampa. To me there is a big difference between saying I want to play in Tampa and I never want to have anything to do with Montreal... That being said Montreal would be very heavy for him if his heart is not 100% in it... Interesting take from PAt Burns, in his opinion Vinny should get out of his comfy little stress free setup and come on to a hockey hot bed if he ever wants to be all the player he can be. And still in his opinion, Tampa needs a franchise player who wants to be a hockey God and carry his franchise, not a guy who's happy to hide there. I felt it was an interesting spin on things. I think what Burns says makes a lot of sense. Maybe Lecavalier needs a real challenge to keep improving. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 17, 2009 0:10:04 GMT -5
If this is Friday, there must be a Lecavalier rumor. (or any day that ends in a Y)
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Post by roke on Jan 17, 2009 0:12:38 GMT -5
If this is Friday, there must be a Lecavalier rumor. (or any day that ends in a Y) I think it's any day with the letter "A" in it, I'm not really up to speed on that sort of thing though. |
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 17, 2009 0:47:03 GMT -5
Just look at the last 2 seasons - 200 points. I think that's the problem - too many people are JUST looking at the last 2 seasons. Nobody seems to notice that this season, he's got 2 more goals and 3 more assists than our 3rd line center. The funny thing is, that's not a bad season for Lecavalier. Don't get me wrong, he's very good. He's just not the kind of player you give up someone like Markov or Price to get, and not the kind of player you sign to an 11 year contract. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 17, 2009 1:20:52 GMT -5
At his press conference, Brian Lawton struck me as someone having stepped in a big pile of goo. Something was stinky in that room, I'm sure. The franchise. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 17, 2009 2:07:13 GMT -5
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2009 10:06:23 GMT -5
does this mean we can give the Vinny discussion a rest and move back to more important things like copyright infringement in the injuries thread? Not quite.  A yesterday's quote from Vinny: «...Living in uncertainty isn't pleasant. The first few days of intense rumors were really not fun. I really would like to know more about what's going on..."Doesn't sound like a men who feels confident about his future and believes there is no basis for all this talk... Renaud Lavoie of RDS claims this thing is far from over... At his press conference, Brian Lawton struck me as someone having stepped in a big pile of goo. Something was stinky in that room, I'm sure. As I stated in an earlier post, what struck me was Lawton's statement - VL won't be traded "any time soon". What he needed to say VL won't be traded - period. The way they have handled this is typical of the mess created since Barrie & Koules took over. They are amateurs. Based on Gainey's mode of operation we can safely say the leaks are coming from the Tampa side. They probably took a discreet inquiry about Lecavalier's availability & turned it into a media frenzy. ...the leaks are coming from Tampa that is for sure. Lavoie, Fournier, Demers all have TB sources and they are the ones that broke this out in the first place... Conspiracy theory: I would not be surprised if Gainey was the one behind that phony PC from Lawton... Telling TB to calm things down and seal leaks while negotiations are occuring... |
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Post by clear observer on Jan 17, 2009 11:56:44 GMT -5
yesterday's quote from Vinny: "I really would like to know more about what's going on" Sounds like someone who's being kept very much IN THE DARK. This story is far from dead, me thinks. |
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Post by Andrew on Jan 17, 2009 13:26:00 GMT -5
Have they ordered his gloves yet?
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Post by Yeti on Jan 17, 2009 14:56:19 GMT -5
I like Pat Burn's take on this. It does seem like that many NHL star players are just happy to collect 5-9 million/year and have nothing to do with the pressure associated with that kind of salary in the NBA, MLB and NFL. They think it's the best of both worlds, a superstar salary without any press coverage/pressure from the fans just because the NHL is a guost league in the States. Pathetic.
They are actually all sissies, all of them in all pro leagues. This is not pressure. These guys don't know what it's like to take risks and they don't know what is the real meaning of the words "pressure" and "stress". Pressure and stress is what that palestinian doctor who just lost his three daughters is facing. At a lower level it is the daily fight that 3/4 of the world's families are putting up just to survive. At an even lower level, it is the average north american family worrying about paying the bills next month... At even lower, much lower, level it is about people like me and you on this board taking calculated risks, leaving secured jobs somewhere for a risky one somewhere else (a different city, a different continent) because we want to experience something new and because we want to grow, individually and as family.
Cry me a river. These overpaid adolescents don't know what it means to experience pressure and stress. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that they do "feel" pressure and stress. That's because they are living in a silo and are not able to put things into perspective.
It's just sad. There are hockey players that I admire as hockey players. There are no hockey players that I admire as individuals. It is what they do afterwards that may make a difference. People like Joe Juneau for example... and Saku Koivu who, I'm sure, can put things into perspective and now laugh at the pathetic columns written by losers like Rejean Tremblay...
Sorry for the rant but I think that the argument about the pressure that pro-league players have to face is a complete joke...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 15:25:37 GMT -5
Ahhh.. nothing like a good flatulence joke on Friday afternoon. Quite frankly, I'm glad the situation's already being "dealt" with. |
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Post by Douper on Jan 17, 2009 16:06:06 GMT -5
I like Pat Burn's take on this. It does seem like that many NHL star players are just happy to collect 5-9 million/year and have nothing to do with the pressure associated with that kind of salary in the NBA, MLB and NFL. They think it's the best of both worlds, a superstar salary without any press coverage/pressure from the fans just because the NHL is a guost league in the States. Pathetic. They are actually all sissies, all of them in all pro leagues. This is not pressure. These guys don't know what it's like to take risks and they don't know what is the real meaning of the words "pressure" and "stress". Pressure and stress is what that palestinian doctor who just lost his three daughters is facing. At a lower level it is the daily fight that 3/4 of the world's families are putting up just to survive. At an even lower level, it is the average north american family worrying about paying the bills next month... At even lower, much lower, level it is about people like me and you on this board taking calculated risks, leaving secured jobs somewhere for a risky one somewhere else (a different city, a different continent) because we want to experience something new and because we want to grow, individually and as family. Cry me a river. These overpaid adolescents don't know what it means to experience pressure and stress. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that they do "feel" pressure and stress. That's because they are living in a silo and are not able to put things into perspective. It's just sad. There are hockey players that I admire as hockey players. There are no hockey players that I admire as individuals. It is what they do afterwards that may make a difference. People like Joe Juneau for example... and Saku Koivu who, I'm sure, can put things into perspective and now laugh at the pathetic columns written by losers like Rejean Tremblay... Sorry for the rant but I think that the argument about the pressure that pro-league players have to face is a complete joke... Amen to that. We were just talking at work the other day that we'd sign a 8 year contract just to get an extra 10 000$ a year nevermind a 10 000 000$ a year. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 17, 2009 22:11:05 GMT -5
I like Pat Burn's take on this. It does seem like that many NHL star players are just happy to collect 5-9 million/year and have nothing to do with the pressure associated with that kind of salary in the NBA, MLB and NFL. They think it's the best of both worlds, a superstar salary without any press coverage/pressure from the fans just because the NHL is a guost league in the States. Pathetic. They are actually all sissies, all of them in all pro leagues. This is not pressure. These guys don't know what it's like to take risks and they don't know what is the real meaning of the words "pressure" and "stress". Pressure and stress is what that palestinian doctor who just lost his three daughters is facing. At a lower level it is the daily fight that 3/4 of the world's families are putting up just to survive. At an even lower level, it is the average north american family worrying about paying the bills next month... At even lower, much lower, level it is about people like me and you on this board taking calculated risks, leaving secured jobs somewhere for a risky one somewhere else (a different city, a different continent) because we want to experience something new and because we want to grow, individually and as family. Cry me a river. These overpaid adolescents don't know what it means to experience pressure and stress. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that they do "feel" pressure and stress. That's because they are living in a silo and are not able to put things into perspective. It's just sad. There are hockey players that I admire as hockey players. There are no hockey players that I admire as individuals. It is what they do afterwards that may make a difference. People like Joe Juneau for example... and Saku Koivu who, I'm sure, can put things into perspective and now laugh at the pathetic columns written by losers like Rejean Tremblay... Sorry for the rant but I think that the argument about the pressure that pro-league players have to face is a complete joke... Amen to that. We were just talking at work the other day that we'd sign a 8 year contract just to get an extra 10 000$ a year nevermind a 10 000 000$ a year. Didn't we offer Michael Ryder $11,000,000 for 8 years. Oops, sorry......... didn't realize it was per year for 8 years. LOL |
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 18, 2009 3:04:33 GMT -5
I like Pat Burn's take on this. It does seem like that many NHL star players are just happy to collect 5-9 million/year and have nothing to do with the pressure associated with that kind of salary in the NBA, MLB and NFL. They think it's the best of both worlds, a superstar salary without any press coverage/pressure from the fans just because the NHL is a guost league in the States. Pathetic. They are actually all sissies, all of them in all pro leagues. This is not pressure. These guys don't know what it's like to take risks and they don't know what is the real meaning of the words "pressure" and "stress". Pressure and stress is what that palestinian doctor who just lost his three daughters is facing. At a lower level it is the daily fight that 3/4 of the world's families are putting up just to survive. At an even lower level, it is the average north american family worrying about paying the bills next month... At even lower, much lower, level it is about people like me and you on this board taking calculated risks, leaving secured jobs somewhere for a risky one somewhere else (a different city, a different continent) because we want to experience something new and because we want to grow, individually and as family. Cry me a river. These overpaid adolescents don't know what it means to experience pressure and stress. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that they do "feel" pressure and stress. That's because they are living in a silo and are not able to put things into perspective. It's just sad. There are hockey players that I admire as hockey players. There are no hockey players that I admire as individuals. It is what they do afterwards that may make a difference. People like Joe Juneau for example... and Saku Koivu who, I'm sure, can put things into perspective and now laugh at the pathetic columns written by losers like Rejean Tremblay... Sorry for the rant but I think that the argument about the pressure that pro-league players have to face is a complete joke... I'm sympathetic to all that, but there's a phrase about walking a mile in another man's skates.... The same argument (more or less) that you use to show how trivial their concerns are can be used on just about anybody's concerns. I think almost everyone is, to some degree, "living in a silo and ... not able to put things into perspective." Personally, I'm glad I don't have twenty thousand people booing me every other night, and journalists dragging my name through the mud. |
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Post by Yeti on Jan 18, 2009 11:54:22 GMT -5
This is a very valid point MC Habber. I gave a very personal opinion rooted in the belief that extreme relativisation is problematic. Not all problems and difficulties in life are equal... You have to draw a line somewhere. An extreme exemple would be to feel sorry for Paris Hilton, or Patrice Brisebois (because of bad press coverage), and find that your eyes are swelling up just the same as if you were holding a dying kid in your arms in a war zone... If you can't put things into perspective then yes, you would feel the same kinds of emotions in both kinds of situation...
I'm offering, again, a very personal perspective... I'm now at a stage in my career where I give oral presentations in front of 200+ people, most of them experts in my field (it could be 20 000 and the feeling would be the same). I used to be a bit, well very, terrified... and I did get "slammed" by some heavyweights in my field... I'm not afraid anymore (stressed yes, but good stress). Past experiences have helped (purposefully seeking risky situations/the hardest roads)... do you know that fear of public speaking ranks above the fear of death...?
There is a little bit of everything in my answer... When you experience hardship and different difficult situations it does prepare you better to face difficult situations in the future... It's also part of your personnality... I have the feeling, and I may be wrong, that Crosby and Ovechkin would not shy away from the pressure of playing in a high pressure market like Montreal. I don't know if past experiences prepared them for that.
This may be premature judgement on my part but it does seem that players like Briere and Lecavalier (and many other NHL star players) don't have the "cojones" for this adventure. They clearly seem afraid, vulnerable and immature.
You can judge me for being judgemental, that is fine.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 18, 2009 12:11:21 GMT -5
The talking heads on the CBC said that the package started with Markov and then four more players like Komi and Higs. I say BULLSH*T to that. Gutting the team of it's better players to bring ONE player is suicide. It took a decade of fustration to finally see a team that can win on a consistent basis and to dismantle it for ONE player is plain stupid.
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 18, 2009 12:15:52 GMT -5
The talking heads on the CBC said that the package started with Markov and then four more players like Komi and Higs. I say BULLSH*T to that. Gutting the team of it's better players to bring ONE player is suicide. It took a decade of fustration to finally see a team that can win on a consistent basis and to dismantle it for ONE player is plain stupid. I saw that. The only four players I'd even consider packaging with Markov to get Lecavalier are Stewart, Begin, Dandenault and Laraque. But seriously. If they want Markov they don't want to trade Vinny that badly. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 18, 2009 12:26:22 GMT -5
I like Pat Burn's take on this. It does seem like that many NHL star players are just happy to collect 5-9 million/year and have nothing to do with the pressure associated with that kind of salary in the NBA, MLB and NFL. They think it's the best of both worlds, a superstar salary without any press coverage/pressure from the fans just because the NHL is a guost league in the States. Pathetic. Pathetic is right. Am I to understand that players making merely $1 million per season actually feel no pressure to perform ... why am I not surprised? Nice post, Yeti. Yet, I can't help but think that we, the fans, actually helped create the 'pressures' of living up to our expectations. Where I have a problem with that is when a lot of these players take what they've been given for granted. As unpopular as it may sound, many of them soon find out that $1 million a year isn't enough to live on. In reality, though, $1 million a year simply can't cover the costs of their lifestyles. Don't get me wrong, we're not talking about every player in the league, granted. Some of these guys make sure there are no outstanding mortgages anywhere in their families; I mean, how good is that? However, there are a lot who don't know how to manage their money ... sometimes they're just too young and they simply have too much of it. And throwing money at them creates more problems than what we're talking about here. More money elevates some athletes to an exalted hight, while causing other players to alienate themselves from the very fans who put them there. Again, it's just not the pro players we're talking about. We're part of the problem too. We help support both types. We do it by buying overpriced tickets and merchandise (heck, I'm wearing a Habs' fleece as I type this out ... go figure the odds) and we even do it every time we tune in a game or pound out a post here on the boards. In that context I guess I'm a supporter of professional sports all the way. There's a limit, though. I'll try to make it to one pro hockey game every year but now I find it harder to justify because of what they're asking for tickets and what I have to put out for gas, parking, souvenirs and eats. But, I'll keep trying to get to that one game every year. =============================================== As for Vinny, well, I'm sure someone somewhere already mentioned it but I was listening to the Satellite Hot Stove last night (they must have used the wrong satellite because Milbury's image was slightly out of sync with his voice) and Pierre Lebrun suggested that Vinny is indeed on the market and that Montreal is the team most interested. The player mentioned in the same sentence was Andrei Markov. Then Al Strachan jumped in and mentioned that Markov would be only one of about five players going to Tampa if the deal were to transpire. Whatever ... Would I take Vinny in Montreal? Well, yeah ... but at what cost? I think Gainey has the 'elements', as he put it last year, to make the deal. But, Markov? The names I would suggest for starters would be; Komisarek and Higgins .... after that who knows. Cheers. PS, and if you think we, as fans, tend to idolize pro players, watch what happens if Vinny comes to town ... |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jan 18, 2009 14:22:01 GMT -5
Pierre Lebrun suggested that Vinny is indeed on the market and that Montreal is the team most interested. The player mentioned in the same sentence was Andrei Markov. Pierre Lebrun also mentioned that the rumours that Lecavalier does not want the spotlight in Montreal are untrue. He said that if Vinny were to give the Bolts a list of teams that he would want to play for, then Montreal would be at the top of that list - no question. Strachan then went on to mention that the snag holding up the deal is that T-Bay wants Markov and that the Habs aren't prepared to include him. As badly as I want Vinny, I think that dealing Markov for him would be a complete lateral move. How good of a team would we be (even with Vinny), if we have to give up one of the best defenceman in the league? We are, after all, going for a Cup and giving up Markov decreases our chances. I know that you have to give to get, but GMs make trades to strengthen their team and I don't think that a move including Markov going the other way, would do that. Our backend needs improvement as is. Losing our best all-around dman would be suicide. If I were calling the shots and they wanted Markov, I would say that the deal is off. |
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 18, 2009 14:52:21 GMT -5
No kidding. If Plekanec continues to return to form, then our group of centers is much more than good enough, whereas our defence is comparatively weak. Trading our best defenceman to upgrade at center makes no sense.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 18, 2009 17:47:25 GMT -5
No kidding. If Plekanec continues to return to form, then our group of centers is much more than good enough, whereas our defence is comparatively weak. Trading our best defenceman to upgrade at center makes no sense. Yep....that's been a chronic problem since our most recent Cup....forwards running around in our own zone...too tired to generate the offense needed.  I say that as a generalization....but there is truth in it. Remember all those years of being hemmed in and horribly outshot and outchanced? Don't want to relive those. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 18, 2009 18:12:12 GMT -5
Pierre Lebrun suggested that Vinny is indeed on the market and that Montreal is the team most interested. The player mentioned in the same sentence was Andrei Markov. Pierre Lebrun also mentioned that the rumours that Lecavalier does not want the spotlight in Montreal are untrue. He said that if Vinny were to give the Bolts a list of teams that he would want to play for, then Montreal would be at the top of that list - no question. Strachan then went on to mention that the snag holding up the deal is that T-Bay wants Markov and that the Habs aren't prepared to include him. As badly as I want Vinny, I think that dealing Markov for him would be a complete lateral move. How good of a team would we be (even with Vinny), if we have to give up one of the best defenceman in the league? We are, after all, going for a Cup and giving up Markov decreases our chances. I know that you have to give to get, but GMs make trades to strengthen their team and I don't think that a move including Markov going the other way, would do that. Our backend needs improvement as is. Losing our best all-around dman would be suicide. If I were calling the shots and they wanted Markov, I would say that the deal is off. It all could be just supposition on Strachan's part too, FG. Maybe he was figuring their best player for our best player, something like that. For me anyway, the timing is all wrong for this. It's too bad the team wasn't playing to a level where they needed a shakeup to the core. Getting team chemistry to where it is now has been a pretty long haul built mainly on many young men who know each other from Hamilton. They've developed extremely well as a group and, more importantly, as a team. I think a drastic, sudden change like bringing Vinny in would put damage that; to what extent I really don't know. There's a lot of speculation going on, more so now since it was reported on the Hot Stove League. I'm participating in the thread, but I honestly can't see the deal going down. I hope our fans aren't let down too hard if it doesn't come to pass ... again. Cheers. |
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