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Post by Ryan on Aug 25, 2003 12:43:23 GMT -5
Have anyone noticed that there is only one Russian player who played in the CHL and then succeded in the NHL (Samsonov). Others came back to Russia and still do not play major part in their respective teams. Those who stayed in North America are not very successfull either. Kostitsyn is not Russian, but the hockey system in Russia and Belorussia is almost the same anyway. I believe most of these kids are stuck in their development between two systems (North American and Russian). They are not good in either of them. Besides, Andrei sounds very immature. One more year in Tikhonov's club will help him. I'm not sure if a year in a foreign country wll help such a guy to grow up. Actually Samsonov played in the IHL, not the CHL. However you're right, he's one of the few success stories to have played in a North American "men's" professional league like the IHL and jump right to the AHL. Two others that come to mind are Radek Bonk and Patrik Stefan, you can debate the successes or failures. |
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Post by Tattac on Aug 25, 2003 13:03:08 GMT -5
Actually Samsonov played in the IHL, not the CHL. However you're right, he's one of the few success stories to have played in a North American "men's" professional league like the IHL and jump right to the AHL. Two others that come to mind are Radek Bonk and Patrik Stefan, you can debate the successes or failures. I wrote the CHL but meant all junior leagues  Bonk and Stefan are not Russians. But you are right it's debatable. |
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Post by Habsolution on Aug 25, 2003 13:13:50 GMT -5
You're right, that's what I don't understand - why does a euro with a professional contract HAVE to play in the AHL or NHL? Where is that written? There doesn't appear to be any precedent, and if anything, the precedent is exactly opposite of this. All euros who come over to North America with junior eligibility AND who have been drafted in the CHL import draft, either play in the NHL, or in the CHL. None of them play in the AHL (the questionable Ivan Huml aside). Just because they have a pro contract doesn't mean they HAVE to play in the AHL or NHL. Last year, both Olivier Michaud and Christian Larrivee played in the CHL, despite having pro contracts. As did Mike Ribeiro, after his infamous 19 game stint in the NHL. That's what I don't understand. Why is everyone so sure Kastitsyin could play in the AHL this year? His rights are owned by a CHL team, and unless that CHL team relinquishes those rights (which is possible) I don't see why he wouldn't have to play in Junior. Every other euro that was drafted into the CHL did, why is Kat an exception? My bad I badly explained it. As I see it he doesn't HAVE to play in the AHL but he could have if he had been signed to a pro contract by the habs prior to august 15th. All euros are subject to this. Wether there is a precedent or not is irrelevant. Maybe it is just a very unusual event that's all. BTW I don't see why Huml is questionable. He is a perfect exemple of that. He was born Sep 6 1981 and started the 00-01 season with Providence as a 19 years old despite being drafted by a CHL team. |
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Post by Tattac on Aug 25, 2003 13:46:37 GMT -5
I left a question about Kostitsyn on the board of the CSKA official website. Hopefully, it won't take them weeks to reply.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 25, 2003 14:13:02 GMT -5
First Timmins said that he's NHL ready but discovers that he doesn't want to come over…<br>Then we learn that the HABS are one of the few teams that did not interview him…<br>Then we learn he doesn't have what it takes to crack the Russian pro league
Then learn he's gonna come over to North American to play in the minors.
Those who were not transported with enthusiasm with this pick certainly have increased worries with the very little impact the organization seems to have on the development of one of their most important prospect and all the "surprises" and "mysteries" that seem to follow the guy.
The memories of Buturlin (who was described as a Pavel Bure type of potential) that totally disappeared from the map and Vadim Tarazov (who was hyped as the very best goalie of Russia) that also vanished after a brief, injury plagued, AHL stay comes to mind. Right now, I can't help but feel that our Russian scouting arm is being given too much importance based on, so far, only one discovery, be it Andrei Markov. Before someone start listing me the usual Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Lindsay Valis litany, let me assure you that I fully realize that I can be pointed towards North American picks that did not pan out as expected too for us. Still what seems to be happening is that our Russian prospects are on the all or nothing side whereas NA prospect seem to on a more usual development curve that does include a couple of season in the farm.
Some will advocate that playing in one of Russia's top league is certainly as good in terms of development as playing in the AHL, and that maybe so, but frankly prospects that are not in our immediate background seem to vanish from our depth chart pretty fast…
Given that, I've come to think that drafting a Russian player has become a risky venture since there is not much benefit for a young Russian kid to rot in the AHL, in a strange country, when they can make the same kind of money (and maybe more) playing at home. Who could blame them… If Zhogin doesn't make the team this year and ends up playing in Hamilton all year, how many here can bet that he will for sure come back next year? Compare that to Ron Hainsey, how many felt that Ron wouldn't report to the HABS this year? Truth is, Zhogin and Kats, like other prospects (even highly touted and talented ones like Garon, Hainsey and Ward), could indeed use one, 2, 3 or even more (injury could be a factor) seasons of AHL hockey (with or without partial NHL stints) but we also know that there is a great chance they won't be willing to go through that.
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Post by Montrealer on Aug 25, 2003 15:25:28 GMT -5
It's been two months since the draft.
Relax people, take a deep breath.
I don't care if he goes to Kazakhstan to play as long as he develops. We won't know how he's doing for at least three years, anyway. It is way, way, WAY too early to start second-guessing this draft pick.
Viktor Tikhonov has never been known as a player's coach, so who knows? Maybe he doesn't want to bother playing Kat because he knows he'll be over here in a few years anyway. Maybe he hates Kat's face, or maybe his hairstyle. Maybe he hates Byelorussians.
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Post by MPLABBE on Aug 25, 2003 15:33:54 GMT -5
It's been two months since the draft. Relax people, take a deep breath. I don't care if he goes to Kazakhstan to play as long as he develops. We won't know how he's doing for at least three years, anyway. It is way, way, WAY too early to start second-guessing this draft pick. Viktor Tikhonov has never been known as a player's coach, so who knows? Maybe he doesn't want to bother playing Kat because he knows he'll be over here in a few years anyway. Maybe he hates Kat's face, or maybe his hairstyle. Maybe he hates Byelorussians. agreed, then again we're Habs fans so I am not surprised by a 66 reply thread on a report that has yet to be confirmed ;D |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Aug 25, 2003 16:59:31 GMT -5
agreed, then again we're Habs fans so I am not surprised by a 66 reply thread on a report that has yet to be confirmed ;D I wonder what would be Kastitsyn reaction if he knew how much we are reacting over every little bits of information concerning his whereabouts. I bet HE would be the one freaking out ;-) And, of course, that apply to every single of our prospects/players. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 25, 2003 17:16:40 GMT -5
Such a promising career over at the tender age of 18.  |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 25, 2003 17:38:04 GMT -5
Such a promising career over at the tender age of 18. Just wait until Team 990 gets hold of this. Or maybe it was their lead Czech correspondent who first broke this story to Russianprospects, while doing a winery tour of Minsk. I heard that same correspondent is hot on the trail of Tomas Linhart, and is hoping to start a new Czech game show called "Where in the World is Carman Linhart?" |
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Post by Bones on Aug 25, 2003 18:06:49 GMT -5
A poster on another site had this to say, perhaps it will shed light on the subject.
Spongebob at HF is quoted:
The post was folled by two other posters who had this to add: Thomas:
And then Le depisteur:
This makes much more logical sense and eases my mind somewhat, I hope this is the correct interpretation of what's really happening here.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 25, 2003 18:54:29 GMT -5
While our fair-haired boy is indeed listed on the 2003-04 CSKA Moscow roster page, as "Anton" rather than "Andrei", it's worth noting that this list contains three goalies, 12 defensemen, and 21 forwards. A large team by any standard. It seems to be a list of everyone who is under contract to CSKA, not necessarily a list of only those who will play for the big team.
Kostitsyn does indeed have #22, no matter what level he plays at.
In an interview on the site, Tikhonov was described as "being able to make even stones cry."
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Post by GoMtl on Aug 25, 2003 19:00:19 GMT -5
Let's hope he's up with the big club in Russia. If he can have a good season he will silence all of these critics, we'll have to see though.
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Post by MPLABBE on Aug 25, 2003 20:28:41 GMT -5
this story just keeps on getting crazier and crazier hehe....
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 25, 2003 20:44:51 GMT -5
this story just keeps on getting crazier and crazier hehe.... Au contraire. There is no story. Kostitsyn is still under contract to CSKA and still hasn't been promoted to the big team. Nothing has changed since this thread began. I have, however, learnt a great deal about contractual arrangements between amateur and professional teams. "Time well wasted," as that cable channel says. |
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Post by Tattac on Aug 26, 2003 2:30:35 GMT -5
He has been listed there for ages. It means nothing. Zherdev signed with Columbus. But he is not going anywhere now. He will stay in Moscow anyway. This is not the official website. On their official website Andrei Kostitsyn have # 32 not 22. www.cska-hockey.ru/?rosterI fixed the URL - mr b |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 26, 2003 4:43:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the link to the official site. I notice that the CSKA roster lists three goalies, 10 defensemen, and 20 forwards (of which Kostitsyn is one). The CSKA-2 roster lists four goalies, eight defensemen, and 17 forwards. The CSKA-2 roster is composed largely of 16 and 17 year-old players. It *seems* that for the moment Kostitsyn is a CSKA reserve. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Aug 26, 2003 6:24:48 GMT -5
"Time well wasted," as that cable channel says. Nothing like the comedy network! |
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 26, 2003 8:04:25 GMT -5
This is not the official website. On their official website Andrei Kostitsyn have # 32 not 22. www.cska-hockey.ru/?rosterI fixed the URL - mr bYou mean I have been learning Russian from the wrong web site?? Grrrr....  |
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Post by Tattac on Aug 26, 2003 8:06:45 GMT -5
You mean I have been learning Russian from the wrong web site?? Grrrr.... It was in Russian?! Oops ... |
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Post by Tattac on Aug 26, 2003 12:23:40 GMT -5
For those who are not tired of talks about Kostitsyn, he played today vs Dinamo (it was a friendly) but didn't do anything worth noting. Actually the whole team didn't. It was a 6-0 loss.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 26, 2003 12:39:04 GMT -5
He lives!
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Blair320
Rookie
Come on Bob, I need a job!
Posts: 1
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Post by Blair320 on Aug 26, 2003 13:24:38 GMT -5
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Post by montreal on Aug 26, 2003 15:41:08 GMT -5
For those who are not tired of talks about Kostitsyn, he played today vs Dinamo (it was a friendly) but didn't do anything worth noting. Actually the whole team didn't. It was a 6-0 loss. Glad to hear he's playing with CSKA. Guess the season starts soon for the RSL? Also a poster at HF claims to have read an interview from Tikonhov (I never spell it right), where he said he plans on using Kastsitsyn this year, but it was in a Belarussian paper which could be baised. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Aug 26, 2003 15:50:54 GMT -5
For those who are not tired of talks about Kostitsyn, he played today vs Dinamo (it was a friendly) but didn't do anything worth noting. Actually the whole team didn't. It was a 6-0 loss. was he playing for CKSA2 vs Dinamo or the big team? |
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Post by montreal on Aug 26, 2003 15:55:18 GMT -5
was he playing for CKSA2 vs Dinamo or the big team? CSKA  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Aug 26, 2003 15:59:01 GMT -5
CSKA thanks. Good news. |
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Post by Habsolution on Aug 26, 2003 16:20:18 GMT -5
CSKA Has this something to do with Zherdev coming over to NA ? |
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Post by CalgaryHab on Aug 26, 2003 16:34:37 GMT -5
I have to put in my two cents worth here about Kasty. Before the draft a lot of people here wanted Savard to swing for the fences as our talent pool in the system has been higher then it has been in years. With Kasty Savard has swung for the fences. I think he will be either a front line player or a bust but I think the organization had to take a shot at a player who could be a possible game breaker. It is way too early to say if he is a bust or not. Let him develop some more and mature then come over when he is ready and not rush him. Look at lafleur when he came up he only blossomed after 3 or 4 years in the league. I hope that Gainey can bring some sort of patience to the organization in the way we bring our players along. In old days players were 23 - 24 when they started making an impact now we want them to be 50 goal scorers at 18, it is just not fair to put that much pressure on a player just drafted. Anyways my two cents worth. Let the season begin already !!
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Post by montreal on Aug 26, 2003 18:00:38 GMT -5
Has this something to do with Zherdev coming over to NA ? From what I understand, Zherdev isn't coming over, or it's a small chance. But we'll know soon enough. |
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Bonk and Stefan are not Russians. But you are right it's debatable. 
The Lords Of The Rings
