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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 5, 2011 9:31:31 GMT -5
Figured I would get an early start on a general thread to talk about the Habs prospects for the upcoming season. Although it is still just early August, there are four prospects hitting the ice as we speak as both the Canadian and US world junior summer camps are underway.
On the Canadian side, and just minutes away at Rexall Place, three Habs prospects are on team Red as part of their summer development camp: Michael Bournival (Shawinigan, QMJHL), Brendan Gallagher (Vancouver, WHL) and Nathan Beaulieu (Saint John, QMJHL). I will be going to the annual Red-White game tomorrow night and will give you some personal thoughts on the kids and how they look against their peers.
On the US front, Jarred Tinordi (London, OHL) is taking part in the US summer development camp for their world junior team.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 5, 2011 10:06:24 GMT -5
Much appreciated my friend.
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Post by slyman on Aug 5, 2011 10:11:04 GMT -5
Looking forward to see if Tinordi will take a good step forward this year since last year wasn't that conclusive....
If he can make the U.S. team, it will be a huge step in the right direction for him. He has to fight less this year and concentrate more on his skills.
We'll be looking forward to read your updates! TY.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Aug 5, 2011 11:52:25 GMT -5
Robin Gusse has been offered a try out at camp this year. Smallish goalie will probably join Delmas at rookie camp. Ok depth move considering we won't have Aaron Dell there as he has committed to school and won't be eligible to be at camp.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Aug 5, 2011 14:02:23 GMT -5
Looking forward to see if Tinordi will take a good step forward this year since last year wasn't that conclusive.... If he can make the U.S. team, it will be a huge step in the right direction for him. He has to fight less this year and concentrate more on his skills. We'll be looking forward to read your updates! TY. Fight less and more skill,,,,isn't that the opposite than most posters want the habs to have in a player lately? |
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Post by Lord Bebop on Aug 7, 2011 10:55:47 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 8, 2011 9:27:29 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 8, 2011 9:39:24 GMT -5
So, my early assessment of the three Habs' prospects at the summer development camp is quite simple. One kid seems a sure bet to make the team, one is likely on the bubble up against some pretty impressive competition, and one seems to be an outside shot at best.
My pick to make this team is our very own 5"8" power forward, Brendan Gallagher. Seems funny to call a short player a power forward, but then you have never seen how this kid plays the game. He never takes a shift off, goes to the nasty places, and just seems to generate chances with his work ethic. He is a real treat to watch. He barrelled into Tyler Bunz again on Saturday night, as he had done earlier in the camp. He generated the first scoring chance of the game, and was buzzing all night. This is the type of player that coaches likely love to coach: because of his work ethic and the fact he plays each shift like he cares.
Next up, is the smooth skating Nathan Beaulieu. At first glance you would think a mid first rounder is a lock, until you read the roster and see there are 10 first rounders amongst the defensemen alone. He is in good company, and it is a competitive camp. He really does skate well, plays a solid positional game, and can jump into the play with ease. The good thing is his skating enables him to get back if he is caught pinching, although he played a pretty conservative defensive game on Saturday night. He was even given a PK shift in the first, and then was on the PP for two of the three PP's that Team Red had. He and Gallagher generated a great chance in the third when he jumped into the play on the PP. Yes, you read that right, Gallagher was on that particular PP and a lot of more talented offensive guys were sitting on the bench watching him. Why? Because his effort behind the net drew the penalty in the first place. Back to Nate, I think he is still in the running for a 7th spot perhaps, and his cause may be helped if Gudbranson and/or Gormley stick in the NHL (it would be too bad for Team Canada, as they are both darn impressive out there). Beaulieu will need to add some bulk/muscle before making the next step as he does not really play a physical game. He is more of a positional defenseman, but I am sure with time he will round out that part of his game.
Lastly, there is Michael Bournival who came over from the Avs in the Ryan O'Byrne deal. He was supposedly the last cut last year, and he put up decent numbers in the Q last season. But if he is to make this team, it will be as a hard-working energy player. I watched his shifts quite closely on Saturday, and came away wanting more. I did not see the continual energy that would endear him with the coaches and selection staff. He will need to pick it up and be more of a force if he expects to have a chance. There are also a lot of very good forwards at camp, as one would expect. Bournival did get one of Team Red's 8 goals in Fort Mac last night.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 9, 2011 9:07:43 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Aug 9, 2011 10:12:56 GMT -5
Thanks, NWT, for following up on the news from the camps and relaying them to us.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 9, 2011 12:51:29 GMT -5
Thanks, NWT, for following up on the news from the camps and relaying them to us. My pleasure. It was actually fun getting out to see the Red-White game involving our three Team Canada hopefuls (and all the other great young Canadian players) on Saturday night. Not often you can get to the rink in shorts and sandals, especially in Edmonton. I am even more looking forward to the World Juniors this year as I just picked up a mini pack today for 5 games being played here in Edmonton, including the New Year's Eve tilt between CAN-US and another CAN game. I missed out on the original lottery for all the Edmonton games, so this was a pretty decent consolation prize. Interestingly enough, all of the possible Habs' prospects are in the pool that is being played in Edmonton. The kids still in the running for a chance to play at the WJC: Canada - Beaulieu, Gallagher, Bournival USA - Tinordi Czech Republic - Pribyl (skilled centre drafted in the 6th round this June) My hope is to see them all live this December. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 9, 2011 21:33:07 GMT -5
I saw Gallagher when the WJ team held their try-outs down here last year ... gotta say, back then I wasn't impressed. Was kinda glad to see he was among the first guys cut.
Canada likes to send big teams to this tournament; it's only my opinion, but I think he will have to do more than being an agitating charlie hustle to make this team, he will have to show he can also produce.
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Post by Roggy on Aug 10, 2011 17:18:25 GMT -5
A tidbit on Tinordi from a guy hanging around the US Team Develoment Camp, from a general hockey board, non team affiliated. Tinordi was the second player he mentioned, after talking about goalie Jack Campbell.
There was a lot of nastiness in the game. Jarred Tinordi took 4 penalties and is definitely a mean-spirited player. He is 6 foot, 7 inches, can skate fairly well for a big guy, and when he body checks someone into the boards, they really rattle. I was standing right up against the glass the entire game, and more than once Tinordi destroyed someone right in front of me and I thought they were going to come right through the boards. If he continues to develop, Montreal will be extremely happy with Tinordi. I do not see him as an offensive guy at all, but he will be a terror to play against.
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Post by franko on Aug 10, 2011 20:46:32 GMT -5
big smile.
as long as he has a bit of d to go with that nastiness
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 12, 2011 10:02:56 GMT -5
big smile. as long as he has a bit of d to go with that nastiness I think he's going to be pretty good on D. It will take a few years, but those things are worth waiting for. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 12, 2011 10:08:11 GMT -5
In the spirit of the dog days of summer, here is my summer of 2011 version of the Habs Top 25 prospects. I have not included either Ryan White or Yannick Weber, in respect of their one way contracts that they signed with the Habs this summer. In contrast, there are a few older newcomers whom I have rated as they have not yet had a full season over in North America (eg, Emelin and Diaz). Just one fan's opinion, so on with the rankings…
1. Nathan Beaulieu, D (Saint John, QMJHL) – The smooth skating two-way defender is fresh off his selection in the summer’s draft and has already been out to a Habs development camp and the world junior summer evaluation camp. His season also extended last year as the Sea Dogs were the eventual Memorial Cup winners. He will be returning to his team that should be a force again this season, so it will be good to see how his development progresses in what could be his last junior year as he technically can sign with the Habs next season due to his late birthday.
2. Louis Leblanc, C (Hamilton, AHL) – The 2009 first rounder is gearing up for his first pro season in rehab as he recovers from off season shoulder season to deal with a nagging injury that may have held him back a little last year. He was part of the world junior silver medal team last year, and also played a key role with the Montreal Junior in their one year stint in Verdun (they are now off to the north shore suburbs). He is a fierce competitor and it will be really interesting to see how he adapts to his first pro season in Hamilton this fall.
3. Danny Kristo, RW (U of North Dakota, NCAA) – Danny’s second season in the NCAA was a bit of a mixed review, mainly getting press about a very slow offensive start and then a late season bout of frost bite. As bad as many made his season out to be, he actually ended up on a very similar point per game production when he hung the skates up at the end of the season (.82 versus .88 the year before). I am sure coming up short at the Frozen Four is a big factor in his return to the NCAA for a third season, and what likely should be his last before signing an entry level contract if the season goes as planned. He mentioned that he has really worked on his defensive game, which will nicely complement his speed and offensive skill.
4. Jarred Tinordi, D (London, OHL) – The hulking blueliner who the Habs traded up for in last year’s first round was a bit of a surprise early cut from last year’s US World Junior team. He also decided to move to the OHL rather than playing NCAA hockey, in order to get more hockey in last season. It was a quiet year in terms of development, but he was adjusting to a much more rigorous playing schedule. He has yet to fully grow into his big, tall body, but you can see the raw materials are there for sure. He moves quite well for a guy his size, and he projects to be a big shut down defender once he fills out. He is currently at the US summer camp for the World Juniors.
5. Alexei Emelin, D (Montreal, NHL) – It is hard to really compare a proven 25 year old against 18 and 20 year olds, but Alexei is still in the “prospect” mode for me until he shows he can play as a NHL regular. That being said, I expect that will be proven rather quickly, as this is a young man who has played a big role with his KHL league team and with the Russian national team. He is known for his robust style, but he also is a good skater, has a nice first pass, and a hard shot. He had his best offensive year last season, so really rounded out his game. Welcome to Montreal, Alexei.
6. Aaron Palushaj, RW (Hamilton, AHL) – Aaron came over from the Blues in the D’Agostini trade and got his first cup of joe with the big club last season. I expect he is that much closer to getting a good long look in camp, but I expect he will start the season in Hamilton. He has a slight frame, but doesn’t shy away from the dirty places. He is a hard working forward that is more of a playmaker than shooter, and he does seem to play big in big games, as he really came alive in the playoffs. He should be a key cog in the Bulldogs offense this year, barring a callup to Montreal.
7. Alexander Avtsin, RW (Hamilton, AHL) – He signed with the Habs and came over to North America as a 19 year old rather than spending another season in juniors either back in Russia or in the Q. It was a relatively quiet year offensively, due in part to the usual adjustment factor and an early season injury that kept him out of the lineup a few times. He also needs to learn how to play in his own zone and off the puck, but that should come more this season with what should be increased ice time. A big kid with good wheels and hands, it will be interesting to see if he can get his offensive game going this season as the reports out of the June development camp were very promising.
8. Brendan Gallagher, RW (Vancouver, WHL) – The “little ball of hate” had a superb season in Vancouver last year, even after missing league leading scorer Cunningham (at the time) who was dealt part way through the year. It did not hold back Brendan’s offensive output as he put up great numbers and had 91 points in 66 games with new linemates. If not for a late season injury, he likely would have crested the 100 point mark. He play far bigger than his 5’8” frame suggests, and has good offensive instincts and does not shy away from playing in the greasy areas. He is coming off a very successful summer evaluation camp for Team Canada.
9. Raphael Diaz, D (Hamilton, AHL) – Diaz is another one of these 25 year old relatively unknown players who was signed out of the Swiss league in the offseason. He was a top defender on his Swiss club team and on his national team, who is a little undersized by NHL standards. It will be interesting to see how he adapts, and I was quite surprised to hear Coach Martin talking about him this summer, as that must suggest that management has some high hopes for him. I expect he will start in Hamilton but could end up the #8 Habs defender quickly enough.
10. Mac Bennett, D (U of Michigan, NCAA) – Another player with a connection to the maize and blue. This smooth skating defender had a good freshman season with the Wolverines, and he spent a lot of the season paired alongside fellow prospect Greg Pateryn. Mac’s main asset is his skating and he has a smooth and fast stride. He still needs to fill out a bit as he is definitely still quite skinny, but he has such great mobility and good hockey sense, so I expect a really good year out of him this season.
11. Michael Bournival, LW/C (Shawinigan, QMJHL) – Michael came over the O’Byrne trade and will be finishing out his junior career this year on the Memorial Cup hosting team, so his season will be a good long one. He was a late cut on last year’s world junior team and has been invited out to the camp again this summer. He is a hard working player who likely projects to be an energy checker at the next level, but he did put up a respectable 64 points in 56 games last season.
12. Mark Mitera, D (Hamilton, AHL) – Mark joined the Habs in the Mathieu Carle trade this summer after Carle did not accept the Habs’ qualifying offer. Mark is a past first round selection and is still only 23, so there still is chance that he could develop into a regular NHLer at some point. He is a good skater, and a big body, so he definitely falls into the defensive defender mould. It will be interesting to see how he develops this year.
13. Mike Blunden, RW (Hamilton, AHL) – Mike is a 24 year old ex-world junior Canadian who was part of the Killer B’s back in the day. He is a big body who definitely plays a more robust style, but he has not really been able to generate lots of offense yet in either the AHL or the NHL (he has 51 NHL games under his belt). He, along with Trotter, Palushaj and Engqvist are the forwards likely battling either for any remaining spots on the team, or any callups during the season.
14. Andreas Engqvist, C (Hamilton, AHL) – The tall Swede emerged from a decent two way player in the SEL into one of the top defensive checking centremen in the AHL last season. This will be his second season in North America and the 23 year old should play a key role with the Dogs facing the opponents’ best players, and also knocking on the door for a spot with the big club.
15. Alain Berger, LW (Hamilton, AHL) – The Habs signed the 20 year old undrafted Swiss forward this summer after watching him play in Oshawa in the OHL. He is a big body who likely needs to improve in his skating, but he does have decent hands for a big guy and brings some size and skill to the Dogs (or the ECHL) this fall.
16. Brendan Nash, D (Hamilton, AHL) – This BC lad was signed last year as a free agent after playing out his NCAA career in Cornell. Brendan is a decent sized two way defender who looked quite good in his AHL debut this past year. He even got noticed enough to get a short call up with the Habs during the season and once all the regulars were dropping due to injury.
17. Daniel Pribyl, C (Sparta Praha, CZE) – The tall Czech centreman has an intriguing combination of size and skill, although he will need to grow into his tall frame before adjusting to the rigours of the North American game. He did get a call up into the mens’ league back home last year after a very successful junior season. He has opted to try and make the mens’ team full time rather than coming over and playing juniors in the CHL. He is a strong candidate to be on the Czech U20 team this year in Edmonton/Calgary.
18. Mark MacMillan, RW (U of North Dakota, NCAA) – Mark is leaving a successful junior career in the BCHL to head to school in North Dakota alongside Danny Kristo. He is joining a very strong hockey program and it will be interesting to see how much ice time he gets this season as a freshman. Mark also played for Team Canada West in last year’s World Junior A Challenge in his hometown rink in Penticton with yours truly in the stands for a couple of games.
19. Magnus Nygren, D (Farjestad, SEL) – He was a bit of a surprise draft pick from a team known for surprise draft picks each year. Magnus just turned 21 after the draft and has already established himself as a starter with his mens team in what is likely the third strongest league in the world. He also plays regular PP time, as that is his strength. He will likely have to improve his skating and get stronger if he hopes to have a good career over in North America. For now, he will be playing back home in Sweden this season on a top club again, hopefully developing his skating and his defensive game.
20. Andrew Conboy, RW (Hamilton, AHL) – Andrew is never going to win a scoring title, but he does bring a solid, hard-working north south game to the rink. He is a prototypical checking energy guy who is a decent skater. He can also chip in with a goal every now and then, as he was a decent scorer in the USHL way back when. I would expect that the Habs may very well be interested in getting a peek at him in the big club either later this season, or the following. For now, he will cause AHL defenders some fits.
21. Dustin Walsh, C (Dartmouth, NCAA) – Ivy league hockey seasons are traditionally very short, moreso than even other NCAA teams, so the body of work on which to assess Dustin is quite small. He is a tall, lanky kid who played his Junior A in Kingston and just completed his second NCAA season. He did see his offensive production double this past season, so it will be interesting to see how he does in year three in Dartmouth.
22. Olivier Archambault, LW (Drummondville, QMJHL) – Olivier is a small, skilled forward who was recently traded to Drummondville from Val D’Or, where it was reported that he wasn’t getting along with the coach for whatever reason. Anyway, he gets a change of scenery and it will be interesting to see how he performs in a new environment. He was a 20 goal scorer last season, so let’s see if he can improve on that total. He will need to get stronger as he can be muscled off the puck.
23. Greg Pateryn, D (U of Michigan, NCAA) – At 6’3” and 222 lbs, Greg is one of our bigger prospects. He came over in the Grabovski trade with Toronto just after he was drafted. He is a big, solid defensive defender who has decent mobility and plays the conservative partner to fellow prospect, and more offensively inclined Mac Bennett. I thought he might consider turning pro this summer, but looks like he will return to Michigan for his final year under legendary coach Red Berenson.
24. Steve Quailer, RW (Northeastern, NCAA) – Steve has been with Northeastern for three years, but only has two years of hockey under his belt due to a season ending injury in a preseason game two seasons ago. After a very successful freshman campaign, he seemed to cool off a fair bit this past season. He hangs onto a spot on my top 25 due to the tempting combination of decent size and speed. He has promising upside, but this year will be critical to measure if his first year’ success was a fluke or if last season’s decline in production was the fluke. Which will it be Steve?
25. Joonas Nattinen, C (Hamilton, AHL) – The 20 year old Finn was the third signing from Europe this summer for Pierre Gauthier, as the Habs’ 3rd rounder from 2009 was playing in the Finnish mens league last season. He also got the nod for a third straight year on Finland’s world junior team, playing a solid two way game. His offensive production seems to have a stalled a bit, so we will see how he does this fall in Hamilton. He is good in the faceoff circle and has decent size, so he may end up being a very similar player to Andreas Engqvist or he may have some untapped offense. Time will tell.
Honourable mention: Brock Trotter, C/LW (Hamilton, AHL) – Some may argue that Brock should be higher on this list, and that is definitely valid considering he should end up among the top scorers in Hamilton, and likely near the top of the list for a possible call up to Montreal. I just project his smaller stature and slower skating as being question marks as to his continued development or success at a higher level. He is talented, and has some real nice chemistry with David Desharnais two seasons ago before he took a year off to play in Latvia in the KHL. Welcome home!
Honourable mention: Gabriel Dumont, C (Hamilton, AHL) – Gabriel was a big favourite of then coach Guy Boucher in the Q when the Habs drafted him in the 5th round in 2009. He is small, hard working guy, who chipped in with the odd offense in his first pro season last year. He had a great Memorial Cup in his draft year, and he played through some serious injuries, so the guy is a warrior (even if he is a smallish warrior in stature).
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Post by Lord Bebop on Aug 13, 2011 12:14:40 GMT -5
I always look forward to your lists NWT. I appreciate the amount of time it takes to put such a list together as i tried in the past and grow frustrated to the point where i gave up.
In one word to describe your list is: Depth
It would be very surprising to see anyone on your list being more then supporting cast type players. No one on that list should develope into guys that will carry our team.
But i think most on that list can and will play in the NHL at some point. Its not hard to envision guys who are rated at the bottom of your list making it. I don't think its a stretch to one day see Gabriel Dumont or Andrew Conboy forming a effective fourth line.
As for the upper echelon part of the prospect list, They had very trying last year as a group it seems.
Louis Leblanc started his QMJHL career on a tear til suddenly having a huge production drop off (my guess is his shoulder injury was to blame). He will need to be back to full strength as he starts in Hamilton. I think he will rebound.
Danny Kristo is probably a bigger question mark. Even before his "frost bite incident" his production was way off compared to expectations. He's still one of the fastest prospects in hockey though. This season will be very telling(I guess you could say that about all prospects though LOL)
Jarred Tinordi is a project. Could be a bust especially after what he should last season. But he needs time. Time will tell but lets not forget he is a huge, nasty presence on the ice and maybe he could develope into our answer to the Horton or the Lucic.
Nathan Beaulieu could be the guy we had before the Gomez trade. I loved McDonagh's game right when we drafted him. I envisioned a Éric Desjardins type player. He never meet thoughs expectations but he should have a very good/long NHL career as a shutdown top 2 D-man. Beaulieu is a pretty similiar type prospect. Decent all round defender who is mobile, smart and aggressive.
Well perhaps the current group of prospects has no future hall-of-famers or all-stars for that matter but there is alot of substance there. Time will tell if all the naysayers are right and Timmins should be fired. But I think he is one of the best at doing his job.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 15, 2011 16:22:28 GMT -5
I always look forward to your lists NWT. I appreciate the amount of time it takes to put such a list together as i tried in the past and grow frustrated to the point where i gave up. In one word to describe your list is: Depth It would be very surprising to see anyone on your list being more then supporting cast type players. No one on that list should develope into guys that will carry our team. But i think most on that list can and will play in the NHL at some point. Its not hard to envision guys who are rated at the bottom of your list making it. I don't think its a stretch to one day see Gabriel Dumont or Andrew Conboy forming a effective fourth line. As for the upper echelon part of the prospect list, They had very trying last year as a group it seems. Thanks JJ, I do enjoy following the prospects and sharing my views and opinions on this cadillac of Habs boards. I think your summary of our "depth" without any real game breakers is very true. There are no players there who singlehandedly should make the Habs a contender. I am also not convinced that the combination of all of the top prospects alone will do that either. But when you continue to add to your team from within, all while a young core of guys like Price, Subban, Pacioretty and Eller start to develop together, then you can add the missing pieces through free agency and/or trade. Louis has been a competitor at each level he has played. I think he will have a decent first pro season this year. Will he end up a top 6 guy or a third line guy in the NHL? Who knows, but I am not counting him out yet as I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. He can process the game at a very high speed, and I really liked that he has focussed a lot of his game last year on getting better defensively. You can teach defensive awareness. Offensive hockey sense and abilities are much harder to teach and to acquire over time...especially when you keep playing against older and better players. I really take some solace in the fact that his point per game production was not that far off last season. I expect it will need to jump this season, as I expect both he and Habs brass want to see him "dominate" a bit more in the NCAA this year. He is a project, but a big, nasty one at that. Just wait til he grows into that frame and gets stronger. He is quite mobile for his size, so he could be a very good shut-down guy if all goes well. Like you mention, another prospect who needs to have a big year in terms of development. I was always a big McD fan, so was rather sad to see him part of that trade. Oh well, let's hope that Nathan can develop nicely as I sure like his overall package of skills, hockey sense and attitude. He was on a very good Saint John team last season, but his success was not just from being surrounded by good teammates. He brings a fair bit to the table himself. The one area in which I think Timmins (and Frank Jay and the rest of the amateur scouting staff) do a good job is finding NHLers beyond the first round. A lot of his/their criticism seems to fall upon their first round picks. The Habs of late have been stuck in that middle ground, so tend to be picking middle to later in the first round, which is not in the "slam dunk" category of prospects. The Habs have acquired a number of fairly recent first rounders over the past few seasons (Shaun Belle a few years ago, and Mark Mitera and Jeff Woywitka this off season). So, we are not the only team to have first rounders not live up to their projected expectations as 16 and 17 years olds, which is when they get scouted prior to being drafted. A lot can go well (and wrong) between then and the NHL (if they even make the NHL). In the past decade, the Habs lead all teams in converting second rounders into regular NHLers. Too bad we keep trading away second rounders these days!! |
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Post by Lord Bebop on Aug 15, 2011 19:33:13 GMT -5
Hey if the Mark Mitera and Jeff Woywitka acquisitions give us enough depth so Gauthier doesn't have to fly out and trade another high draft pick, I would be even more happy with these moves...... plus maybe we could be the team trading the extra depth around this time around.
PS -I'm really liking the Hamilton team this season. Their defence must rank near the top of the AHL, on paper anyways:
Henry - Woywitka
Mitera- St.Denis
Nash- Diaz
Stejskal
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Post by Skilly on Aug 15, 2011 20:12:44 GMT -5
In the past decade, the Habs lead all teams in converting second rounders into regular NHLers. Too bad we keep trading away second rounders these days!! I hear this statement alot in here ... and I've always thought about checking its validity, cause I don't believe it. Since 2001 (one decade) we have drafted 6 second rounders that went on to play in the NHL, and that's counting Duncan Milroy (5 games) and Mathieu Carle (3 games). I guess you can say, we have a good percentage 6 out of 9 ... we have missed on Linhart, Urquhart and Kristo. I am not one that thinks he will be an NHLer, so he is a miss until otherwise proven wrong. And 4 years we didn't have a second round choice at all ... so who knows what would have happened there. But I find it hard to believe there isn't another team with 6 players drafted in the second round that played a game in the NHL. Atlanta had 4 out of 7 in the past decade play in the NHL .... albeit 2 only played a single game. I would argue that the Boston Bruins have fared better over the past decade than us too .... They have 6 out of 13 that made it, but their hits include Lucic, Bergeron, and Krecji. And their misses include prospects like Jared Knight, Ryan Spooner. So from a games played perspective ... the Bruins beat us too. And that's only as far as the B's and 26 more teams to look through ....  |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 16, 2011 0:44:31 GMT -5
I have to respond to this, because I believe so strongly in it. The reason many of us are so keen on keeping our 2nd rounders, Skilly, is because of the quality of players the Habs have, in the past, chosen in the 2nd round....with an argument to be made that those guys have made much more of a difference to the team than their 1st rounders. I went back to 1983, which is about 25 years. The list of decent 2nd rounders includes:
Claude Lemieux, Stephane Richer, Sergio Momesso, Benoit Brunet, John Leclair, Eric Desjardin, Matheiu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois, Valerie Bure, Jose Theodore, Mathieu Garon, Mike Ribeiro, Maxim Lapierre, Gui Latendresse, PK Subban.
Maybe not game breakers, (who knows how good PK can be yet?) but there's a good number of very solid players there. The draft is often a numbers game and the more chances you have at bat, especially when you're ahead in the count as you are in the first and second rounds, the better your chances. If you go a little further back in time, you can add Larry Robinson, Chris Chelios, Mats Naslund and Rod Langway to that list. Second rounders. Who needs 'em.
That group of players dwindles toward the end because of our drafting over the last 15 years and frankly because we haven't had that many 2nd rounders. Yeah, there have been some duds, but the more pitches you get, the better chance of hitting that home run. You don't do it by trading those picks for temporary help that leaves come July 1.
I also get the feeling you'd trade every one of our prospects (such as Kristo) becuase they really haven't proved anything. It sounds like the only young players who'd fit your success model are players who can make it straight out of juniour. That's a pretty small group and you'd be shorting a lot of very good players. PK didn't make it to the show right after juniour and he's just one example of a guy who's turning out very well. Price and Patches are also examples of core players who couldn't really play at this level until they'd had a year or two in the minors.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 16, 2011 9:33:40 GMT -5
I have to respond to this, because I believe so strongly in it. The reason many of us are so keen on keeping our 2nd rounders, Skilly, is because of the quality of players the Habs have, in the past, chosen in the 2nd round....with an argument to be made that those guys have made much more of a difference to the team than their 1st rounders. I went back to 1983, which is about 25 years. The list of decent 2nd rounders includes: Claude Lemieux, Stephane Richer, Sergio Momesso, Benoit Brunet, John Leclair, Eric Desjardin, Matheiu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois, Valerie Bure, Jose Theodore, Mathieu Garon, Mike Ribeiro, Maxim Lapierre, Gui Latendresse, PK Subban. Maybe not game breakers, (who knows how good PK can be yet?) but there's a good number of very solid players there. The draft is often a numbers game and the more chances you have at bat, especially when you're ahead in the count as you are in the first and second rounds, the better your chances. If you go a little further back in time, you can add Larry Robinson, Chris Chelios, Mats Naslund and Rod Langway to that list. Second rounders. Who needs 'em. That group of players dwindles toward the end because of our drafting over the last 15 years and frankly because we haven't had that many 2nd rounders. Yeah, there have been some duds, but the more pitches you get, the better chance of hitting that home run. You don't do it by trading those picks for temporary help that leaves come July 1. I also get the feeling you'd trade every one of our prospects (such as Kristo) becuase they really haven't proved anything. It sounds like the only young players who'd fit your success model are players who can make it straight out of juniour. That's a pretty small group and you'd be shorting a lot of very good players. PK didn't make it to the show right after juniour and he's just one example of a guy who's turning out very well. Price and Patches are also examples of core players who couldn't really play at this level until they'd had a year or two in the minors. Now you are arguing apples and oranges ... I didn't say second rounders weren't worth keeping. I said I questioned the vailidity that the Habs were the best at turning second rounders into "regular" NHLers (are Milroy and Carle really regulars?) over the past decade. Patches is now a "core" player after half a season? Yes he has the potential, and I love the guy, but Habs fans always over value our prospects until it is time to sign them and then we are quick to say they don't deserve the money - and I am just as guilty of that as anyone. Patches has one of the biggest question marks dangling over his head this year ... and with the acquistion of Cole, and the sulking of Kostitsyn, Patches may find (I hope to God he doesn't) himself on the third line yet, especially if he comes back tentative. Trade all our prospects? Not sure were you get that from ... maybe all our defense prospects not named Subban or even all our non-OHL defensive prospects .. ;D. I've been saying for years we need to start trying to draft, trade, acquire strong offensive prospects and I'm not going to waver from that mantra .... As for making it straight out of junior, if they are one of the top 12 forwards or top 6 defensemen I see no reason to let them go back to the NCAAs/juniors/AHL. Some people want to ignore the stats and say the "seasoning" did them well, but there are some of our prospects playing now that are not playing any better than when we first had them, just being utilised better. I am not in favour of numbers games, sending a kid down because it is the safe thing to do, or he has a two way contract and we don't want to lose a player who is barely a fringe player. I want the best possible team the Habs can ice and then let the chips fall where they may ... |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 16, 2011 10:16:13 GMT -5
Trade all our prospects? Not sure were you get that from ... From your comment earlier about Kristo. It seemed you were writing him off already. Most prospects are just like him. There's potential, and possibilities (a lot of posters weren't very impresssed with Patches when he was first up), but it often takes time. Some posters think Eller is a bust. I happen to think he's developing and going through growing pains, as many of us do when learning on the job. At some point a prospect should show if they're going to make it or be unsuccessful. As a GM, knowing when that point happens is critical. If they're not in your future plans, that's the time to move on. Guy Lafleur is a great example. His first three years, while posting ok numbers, he was heading for bust status given the expectations. Marcel Dionne, taken right after him, was much more impressive and there were many stories suggesting the Habs blew the pick. In his 4th season, Guy blossomed, but it took 3 years, and that was when 20 year olds were first year players, not 18 year olds. Kristo is not yet a bust. Not even close. He may not be even a solid NHL'er, or he could be another Jari Kurri. While we shouldn't overrate our prospects, we shouldn't underrate them either. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 16, 2011 13:23:25 GMT -5
Trade all our prospects? Not sure were you get that from ... From your comment earlier about Kristo. It seemed you were writing him off already. Most prospects are just like him. There's potential, and possibilities (a lot of posters weren't very impresssed with Patches when he was first up), but it often takes time. Some posters think Eller is a bust. I happen to think he's developing and going through growing pains, as many of us do when learning on the job. At some point a prospect should show if they're going to make it or be unsuccessful. As a GM, knowing when that point happens is critical. If they're not in your future plans, that's the time to move on. Guy Lafleur is a great example. His first three years, while posting ok numbers, he was heading for bust status given the expectations. Marcel Dionne, taken right after him, was much more impressive and there were many stories suggesting the Habs blew the pick. In his 4th season, Guy blossomed, but it took 3 years, and that was when 20 year olds were first year players, not 18 year olds. Kristo is not yet a bust. Not even close. He may not be even a solid NHL'er, or he could be another Jari Kurri. While we shouldn't overrate our prospects, we shouldn't underrate them either. I re-read my post and see where you can see I am writing him off. I fully admit I don't think he is a sure thing to make the NHL, my intention was more to suggest we can't consider him a "regular" NHLer at this moment in time. I know some are high on him, but if you are going to consider him an example of good second round drafting, then picks like Knight and Spooner also have to be considered good second round drafting. I fully appreciate the successes the Habs have made in the second round; they definitely fare better there than in the first round (although that trend is changing too IMO), but I don't think we should be so bold to call ourselves the best at second round drafting. Not yet, ... hopefully in 3-4 years we will be. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 16, 2011 15:02:12 GMT -5
Kristo is not a success yet, for sure. It was a bit disappointing that he got off to a poor start last year, as that's not a trend that I like, and then there was the frostbite thing (for which I'd still like to know the full story. I suspect there were hi-jinks involved and something embarrassing or else the facts would have come out).
I still dislike seeing PG trade away those second rounders. there is a definite correlation between higher picks and better players, so giving them up can hurt the asset base of the team. Recently, Carle hasn't turned out, but PK has. If we can hit 50% in the 2nd round, that's extremely good. Without a pick, we're guaranteed zero % effectiveness.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Aug 27, 2011 16:35:28 GMT -5
Here are 4 write ups on 4 different prospects that are at very different stages of their development. I think they are pretty fair and are pretty unbiased as you can get from a Habs blogger. Yannick Weber www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/8/25/2383156/habs-top-25-under-25-8-yannick-weberDanny Kristo www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/8/26/2375949/habs-top-25-under-25-7-danny-kristoAaron Palushaj www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/8/24/2380566/habs-top-25-under-25-9-aaron-palushajJarred Tinordi www.habseyesontheprize.com/2011/8/23/2376205/habs-top-25-under-25-9-jarred-tinordiIn my opinion which is much more biased Yannick Weber- Well at this point in his development he's proven to be a passable depth defenceman at the NHL. He tightened up his game very well last season and I get the feeling he is due for a breakout year in Montreal and become a power play weapon. He has to somehow earn pp time with Markov and Subban on the team but with his shot he has a pretty good chance to get his fair share. Danny Kristo- Has proven before he can be an offensive force but needs his mojo back. Last season was pretty disappointing. The speed demon should have a monster year for the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux..... I'm guessing. Too much speed and a wicked wrister to be denied. Aaron Palushaj- had a great year last season. Many have taken a liking to the guy. Great hussler and will take a hit to make a play. He played last season with two different line combos that dominated the league at points but he was not the go to guy. This time around he is expected to carry the offense and be the guy. There will be no Desharnais, Dawes, Boyd or Pacioretty to lean apon this seaon. Will be very telling whether his point totals rise or fall. Jarred Tinordi is a very long term project. His debut in the OHL last season created many naysayers. But this summer he was pretty impressive at the USA World Junior Camps he attended. He improved over the course of last season plus, according to the write up, he is said to be working on his pugilistic skills. There is something to this prospect still. His talents are intriguing. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 30, 2011 23:09:02 GMT -5
Just came back from the Oil Kings WHL home opener...no Habs' prospects in the game, but there will be later in the season when Gallagher (Vancouver) and Dietz (Saskatoon) come to town.
Some good performances from some prospects tonight. Here are some of the notables.
Bulldogs (with 17 guys dressed) win their first preseason game in Victoriaville 4-1 behind Alexander Avtsin's two goal performance. Willsie had 1+1 and Trotter had 3 assists to round out a very good first line debut for the three.
Bournival fresh off his demotion from the Habs camp and game against Tampa last night, had two goals tonight. That makes 7 in his first 3 games in the Q!! Seven!!
Morgan Ellis had two helpers tonight, and the defender and team captain now has 6 points in his first 4 games after getting a little looksie at the Habs camp as well.
Darren Deitz, our youngest prospect, got an assist tonight and now has four points in his first three games as a promising young defender in the WHL.
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Post by franko on Oct 1, 2011 7:49:48 GMT -5
i just don't think the Habs' prospects look that good this year.
oops, wrong thread . . . this should be in the prediction thread.
as to our AHLers and up-and-comers . . . I'm going to change my handle to "whatever", because no matter how well the boys do in the A-and-under, with the exception of Subban [I'm just waiting for his turn] they just seem to flounder [or get traded and become alive]
but thanks for the updates, NWT . . . I'm just not paying as much attention to much Hab-wise so far [maybe when the season begins . . . heck, I'm paying more attention to the NFL than the NHL -- and I detest the NFL game!].
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Post by seventeen on Oct 1, 2011 8:52:37 GMT -5
Franko, look at it this way. The better a job we do of picking and developing our prospects, the harder it is for PG and JM to screw it up.
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Post by franko on Oct 1, 2011 9:24:46 GMT -5
I wish I had your faith, Mr. 17.
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