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Post by seventeen on May 28, 2013 22:32:19 GMT -5
Hmmmm.....Galchenyuk for the Avs first even up, is tempting. McKinnon is a special player and perhaps not so far off Crosby material as it may seem today. Plus, he's darn good on faceoffs  . Yeah, no way with PK. Now if the Avs were looking for some veteran help, I'd certainly offer up Pleks, Patches and our first rounder. That would hurt our wing situation, but what a centre lineup we'd have. |
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Post by GNick99 on May 29, 2013 1:12:03 GMT -5
MacKinnon has moved back to #1 in ISS rankings. so how much is he worth? reputedly [Renaud Lavoie retweeted by Bob McKenzie] Roy told Sakic that the Avs need to study the possibility of trading their first round pick. in the fwiw category, I think. if it's true it will be a bundle Any team be crazy to deal any of those top 3 picks. They are hard to come by and backbone to future Cup teams. Up there with Crosby/Toews/Malkin, etc... |
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Post by blny on May 29, 2013 5:15:25 GMT -5
Hmmmm.....Galchenyuk for the Avs first even up, is tempting. McKinnon is a special player and perhaps not so far off Crosby material as it may seem today. Plus, he's darn good on faceoffs . Nathan may be "Crosby-lite", but it's not by much. His skating, net drive, and attacking of opposing players are on a par. He's got excellent finish. He may not be quite the play maker that Crosby is, but I think he's a better natural goal scorer. I think he's got what it takes to be a consistent 90-110 point player at the NHL level. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 29, 2013 14:56:11 GMT -5
if somehow Roy was in love with Price... ...didn't appear to be on l'Antichambre. Roy was probably the first person to say that Price was in trouble both technically and that he didn't have the competitive edge that he should... |
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Post by GNick99 on May 29, 2013 23:03:07 GMT -5
if somehow Roy was in love with Price... ...didn't appear to be on l'Antichambre. Roy was probably the first person to say that Price was in trouble both technically and that he didn't have the competitive edge that he should... Was it very long ago he said this? |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 30, 2013 10:54:20 GMT -5
Ian McCoshen is guy I heard they may like in first round. We won't get a top 15 pick, but if Gauthier or Mantha is available, we will have addressed our need for size in 2015. |
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Post by seventeen on May 31, 2013 17:13:57 GMT -5
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Post by GNick99 on May 31, 2013 17:24:16 GMT -5
After Memorial Cup I have MacKinnon first overall |
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Post by seventeen on May 31, 2013 18:12:46 GMT -5
Me too. While I like Drouin, McKinnon just looks unstoppable at times. I'm not so sure he's even Crosby-lite. He may end up Crosby-like.
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Post by blny on May 31, 2013 19:04:46 GMT -5
Me too. While I like Drouin, McKinnon just looks unstoppable at times. I'm not so sure he's even Crosby-lite. He may end up Crosby-like. He's a more natural goal scorer at a younger age. Sid's a slightly better play maker. The biggest difference. My concern about Drouin is his preference for the perimeter. He doesn't drive the net like Nate. He will find it a lot harder to dominate from the half wall at the NHL level. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 1, 2013 16:13:02 GMT -5
Some draft questions asked to Grant McCagg. Former Habs scout and now co-editor of ISS and Bob McKenzie right hand man.
Who do you see most likely drafted by Montreal at 25?
Most likely one of the four M's - McCarron, Morin, McCoshen, Mueller. Maybe Gauthier, maybe Rychel, perhaps even Hartman. Everything depends on what happens in front of them. I know the Habs are high on Lazar, but can't see him dropping that far. Who knows..if someone like Lazar or Morin drops to 20..maybe the Habs dangle a second to move up. At least this year they have the ammo to do so. The thing about Morin is upside...he oozes it. The improvement he made from season's start to finish was perhaps greater than any other prospect.
McCoshen who has drawn comparisons to McDonagh. They like another big US dman also who made strides as the season went on was Downing. But not first round like, he's bit of a wild card. Burakowsky is a possibility I suppose too. I have a definite issue with his vision...doesn't use his linemates very effectively from what I've seen. Lots of dipsy, but no doodle
Whats your take on Zykov?
Very strong, but not tough, you won't see him drop the gloves. PF potential, but lacks vision I think. Skating needs some work. They like him, but slim chance picked by the Habs in the first.
What do you think of Mantha?
you never draft players based solely on their stats......you have to watch them. The thing is..he's playing in a league where Steve Bernier scored 50 goals in his draft year too. People looked at his stats and size and thought "wow", he must be great. He has NHL speed and shot..that's going to make you productive in the Q, but will it translate seamlessly to the NHL? That's where there are questions. He reminds me quite a bit of Joe Colborne..big lanky kid with tons of skill who can skate very well for his size...but had a definite aversion to contact. Boston found that out too late. He's still struggling to find an NHL role. Mantha disappeared down the stretch and in the playoffs. Montreal is looking for players who will help them win playoff games, especially with their first pick. You can't risk it on a player who is chicken bleep.
Nobody's saying Mantha will never figure it out..perhaps he does. But do you take that chance with a first round pick when there are so many other solid options available? I think it's in part a question of him falling victim to a deep draft. If this was a weak draft someone would take him in the top 20 for sure and hope he can go from a skinny kid who really dislikes contact to a relatively brave sniper.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 2, 2013 22:13:52 GMT -5
What do you think of Mantha? you never draft players based solely on their stats......you have to watch them. The thing is..he's playing in a league where Steve Bernier scored 50 goals in his draft year too. People looked at his stats and size and thought "wow", he must be great. He has NHL speed and shot..that's going to make you productive in the Q, but will it translate seamlessly to the NHL? That's where there are questions. He reminds me quite a bit of Joe Colborne..big lanky kid with tons of skill who can skate very well for his size...but had a definite aversion to contact. Boston found that out too late. He's still struggling to find an NHL role. Mantha disappeared down the stretch and in the playoffs. Montreal is looking for players who will help them win playoff games, especially with their first pick. You can't risk it on a player who is chicken bleep. Nobody's saying Mantha will never figure it out..perhaps he does. But do you take that chance with a first round pick when there are so many other solid options available? I think it's in part a question of him falling victim to a deep draft. If this was a weak draft someone would take him in the top 20 for sure and hope he can go from a skinny kid who really dislikes contact to a relatively brave sniper. Eric Daze or Guillaume Latendresse? Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Jun 4, 2013 10:11:54 GMT -5
Button's top three is unchanged from early April. Jones, Drouin, MacKinnon. He has some players moved up a fair bit, including Bigras in Owen Sound. His plus minus is off the charts considering his point production. Might project to be a Gorges type. He could be around for any of our early second round picks. He's got a Finn pegged at 25th. Rasmus Ristolainen, slips down 5. www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649Here's a video/interview with Bigras, a teammate, and assistant coach (and NHL bust) Daniel Tkaczuk. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OSMm4DDszE |
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Post by sergejean on Jun 5, 2013 21:32:31 GMT -5
I really start to like Morin more and more. At 6'7" and with a mean streak he could be our answer to Chara and the Bruins. Could you picture a defense bolsting Tinordi and Morin? That would change the dynamic for sure!
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 5, 2013 23:20:00 GMT -5
I really start to like Morin more and more. At 6'7" and with a mean streak he could be our answer to Chara and the Bruins. Could you picture a defense bolsting Tinordi and Morin? That would change the dynamic for sure! This is a pretty amazing draft to be able to do better than Morin. In fact, I think with our top three picks. |
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 6, 2013 8:06:39 GMT -5
I really start to like Morin more and more. At 6'7" and with a mean streak he could be our answer to Chara and the Bruins. Could you picture a defense bolsting Tinordi and Morin? That would change the dynamic for sure! From what i understand Morin's almost been compared more to a guy like Tyler Myers....good skater, some offensive upside, not necessarily the stay at home shutdown type. And honestly that makes me even more interested in him... |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 6, 2013 18:26:26 GMT -5
I really start to like Morin more and more. At 6'7" and with a mean streak he could be our answer to Chara and the Bruins. Could you picture a defense bolsting Tinordi and Morin? That would change the dynamic for sure! Mueller is one of my favorites at 25 |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 9, 2013 13:10:21 GMT -5
We are drooling over players that will be gone at 25. One guy that will remain is Nic Pétan who will drop into our lap because of his size. He could be our next Gallagher
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 9, 2013 20:42:43 GMT -5
Apparently Jonathan Diaby (D - QMJHL) was 6'5" 250 at the combine. Physical d-man that will likely go in the 2nd round. Might be a bit of a stretch to take him with our early 2nd round picks, but likely wont be around for our late 2nd.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 10, 2013 0:46:22 GMT -5
Apparently Jonathan Diaby (D - QMJHL) was 6'5" 250 at the combine. Physical d-man that will likely go in the 2nd round. Might be a bit of a stretch to take him with our early 2nd round picks, but likely wont be around for our late 2nd. I would go for him. If he can skate and chew gum at the same time, six five with a mean streak is what we need and second round picks are over valued compared to known names in the first round. Maybe our scouts know the late round picks, but I place more value on moving up to get a player who may play. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 10, 2013 9:06:16 GMT -5
I expect there to be a huge run on big players this draft, no pun intended. Morin, McCarron, McCoshen, Gauthier... if you're over 6'3 I think you are going to get picked before we get a shot at you. Even Diaby I think might sneak into the first round, even though talent-wise he has no business being there.
Too many teams saying that they need to get bigger and tougher. Too much cr*p being allowed in the playoffs now. Too much waffleness coming from Brendan Shanahan's office now (remember the first few days of his reign, when suspensions were being handed out like crazy?). Unless we are willing to move up, I don't think we're going to get any of the really big boys. We're just drafting too low. Bring back the tank debate. Now I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, that we are going to get the more-skilled-but-smaller-player, but I think it will be a thing of some sort. So there is my fearless prediction; we're getting skilled guys again, and not the beef. Prepare yourself accordingly.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 10, 2013 9:36:58 GMT -5
Then, as much as Bergevin doesn't believe in building via trades....he's going to have to lose some skill guys in order to get tougher.
IF he wants to get tougher, that is.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2013 10:40:47 GMT -5
I expect there to be a huge run on big players this draft, no pun intended. Morin, McCarron, McCoshen, Gauthier... if you're over 6'3 I think you are going to get picked before we get a shot at you. Even Diaby I think might sneak into the first round, even though talent-wise he has no business being there. Too many teams saying that they need to get bigger and tougher. Too much cr*p being allowed in the playoffs now. Too much waffleness coming from Brendan Shanahan's office now (remember the first few days of his reign, when suspensions were being handed out like crazy?). Unless we are willing to move up, I don't think we're going to get any of the really big boys. We're just drafting too low. Bring back the tank debate. Now I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, that we are going to get the more-skilled-but-smaller-player, but I think it will be a thing of some sort. So there is my fearless prediction; we're getting skilled guys again, and not the beef. Prepare yourself accordingly. Habs have drafted small, skilled guys recently...Gallagher, Collberg, Hudon, probably is time for a mix. Bergevin will look for balance. I doubt he is interested in Gauthier unless he slides into the 2nd round. He was terrible down the stretch and into the playoffs. Morin, McCarron are 2 strong possibilities. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 10, 2013 11:50:57 GMT -5
Then, as much as Bergevin doesn't believe in building via trades....he's going to have to lose some skill guys in order to get tougher. IF he wants to get tougher, that is. Well whoever he drafts this summer won't solve our size problems next year anyways, so he's still going to have to go the UFA and/or trade route. The drafted guys won't be available for another 3-5 years anyways, so if we are relying on them we are in trouble. Having said that, it would be nice to see a culture-change, in which the "big" becomes part of the Best Player Available equation. Now having said THAT if some other teams want to draft the next Hugh Jessiman or Corey Urquhart because they value size above all else, and the next Zach Parise and Patrice Bergeron fall into our laps, then so be it. Habs have drafted small, skilled guys recently...Gallagher, Collberg, Hudon, probably is time for a mix. Bergevin will look for balance. I doubt he is interested in Gauthier unless he slides into the 2nd round. He was terrible down the stretch and into the playoffs. Morin, McCarron are 2 strong possibilities. I would love it if we could walk away with any combination of Morin, McCarron and Gauthier (who I think is being unfairly maligned) but my point was that I don't think any of them make it to us at pick number 25. I think this year, perhaps more so than any other year, size will trump all. That COULD work for us in the long run, if we do in fact end up with the much better player, but my sneaking suspicion is that the moments after the draft is over will be full of angry words from Hab fans. We shall see, I suppose. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 10, 2013 12:44:28 GMT -5
We have a lot of second round and later picks. More than we have openings on our roster. I don't see guys in later rounds that are better than the players we have in the minors today. Trade the late picks to move up to the first round talent we can use
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Post by Andrew on Jun 10, 2013 14:38:49 GMT -5
I expect there to be a huge run on big players this draft, no pun intended. Morin, McCarron, McCoshen, Gauthier... if you're over 6'3 I think you are going to get picked before we get a shot at you. Even Diaby I think might sneak into the first round, even though talent-wise he has no business being there. Too many teams saying that they need to get bigger and tougher. Too much cr*p being allowed in the playoffs now. Too much waffleness coming from Brendan Shanahan's office now (remember the first few days of his reign, when suspensions were being handed out like crazy?). Unless we are willing to move up, I don't think we're going to get any of the really big boys. We're just drafting too low. Bring back the tank debate. Now I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, that we are going to get the more-skilled-but-smaller-player, but I think it will be a thing of some sort. So there is my fearless prediction; we're getting skilled guys again, and not the beef. Prepare yourself accordingly. This could work out in the Habs' favour, as many big players would be overvalued, leaving more talented players available. Not to say that the Habs don't need size, but first and foremost they need guys that will develop into NHL players that have value on the roster, or through trade. Drafting a bunch of huge prospects might look great on draft day, but not so much a few years down the road if none of them make the show. Here's a recent quote from Timmins that I'm sure will ruffle some feathers: Source - NHL.com www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=672693 |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2013 18:10:30 GMT -5
You don't want to end up with a team of smurfs though
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Post by blny on Jun 10, 2013 19:18:56 GMT -5
Going into this draft, I think it's entirely possible some teams will get swept up in 'size matters', and I think it will bite some teams. How many big guys did we see get drafted in the 90s who were point a game players in jr, and couldn't translate it in the NHL? A lot. Hell, the Habs drafted a few of them. Size is part of the puzzle, but not all of it, and not the biggest piece.
Say I'm up to pick and I have the choice between a guy 5'10 and 180lbs and one 6'3 210lbs. The smaller player has off the charts compete level and scored 90pts his draft year in junior. The bigger guy put up Jason Ward like numbers, showed decent character and toughness, but you weren't sure he'd be able to bully his way to points at the NHL level. I'm taking the smaller player. This is what Timmins is talking about when he speaks of Drouin, and this is what a lot of teams ignored in the 90s. Drouin isn't a big player, but his compete level is off the charts and he is relentless about the puck.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 11, 2013 0:01:24 GMT -5
We can't draft size because they will be gone, we can't trade for them because they want too many picks, we can't sign because they are too expensive.
What about planting them? Can we plant a few? I got a line on a 600 acre farm!
Seriously, if we don't want to compete in the rules, or I should say the way the NHL sets the defacto rules, maybe we should change leagues? Because we certainly not going to see a cup in the foreseeable century.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 11, 2013 0:13:29 GMT -5
Sure, absolutely, no doubt...and the Hens beat us like rented mules. Boston just mauled the far superior talented Pens like rented mules too. Accident?
This is a massive case of cognitive dissonance. Epic level. If one player has a bit less talent then the next player but has 6" 50 pounds on him, I'm taking the bigger player. EVERY TIME. If no other reason then I believe in physics. The kind of physics that says that a bigger player has a better chance of competing with players his own size playing a rough game. Sure, if you compare one player that has off the chart compete level with just an average BillyBob Gagne, then I pick the off the charter (although it begs the question, how do I find him if he's not in the charts?).
If Timmins can't see the REAL NHL in front of him, then we have another 5 year plan awaiting after this five year plan ends, just like the previous five year plan which got followed the previous five year failure.
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