|
|
Post by PTH on Jul 1, 2013 18:03:47 GMT -5
Time will tell if Timmins drafted wisely but it sure looks like he drafted based on needs rather than bpa. When asked about it, Bergevin said "it was really 50-50 between BPA and our needs" (or words to that effect) |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2013 18:28:48 GMT -5
Isn't De La Rose listen as 6'2, 176lbs?? People have him playing at 215 lbs? That 40 lbs to gain, better start his Big Mac diet now, cause that's the only way he gains 40 lbs .... Eliteprospects has him at 190lbs. As i mentioned earlier he was measured at 6'2.5" at the combine. Not unreasonable at all that he ends up 6'3" 215. TSN has him at 176 |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jul 1, 2013 19:22:52 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the BPA. Our BPA's always seem to be smurfs when our time to pick comes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Douper on Jul 1, 2013 19:32:04 GMT -5
If McCarron can become a Blake Wheeler, I would be Very happy.
And if none of them are soft like Benoit Pouliot or mindless like Ak47, I will be happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jul 1, 2013 22:26:05 GMT -5
I don't get this obsession with "dealing" with hits like the Pacioretty and Eller hits. They happen. Heck, Toews probably got a concussion off of a headshot in the final. It happens. That's not to say we don't need to add size, toughness and grit, but dirty hits leading to injuries happen to everyone. Heck, Bergeron finished the final horribly beat up, and he plays for the team we see as the "nasty" one. Can it really be called an obsession when it's been 15+ years of watching the Montreal Targets/Pacificts? Sure those hits may continue to happen regardless of who's in the lineup.....but they'll be fewer when there's a real threat of retribution. Did anyone see the play that broke Bergeron's rib? He was on fire before he was taken to the hospital in Game 5. Just wondering if it was before or after Toews was decked in the head by Boychuk. Either way, one team was responding to another's actions, most likely. That's what the Fergie Swagger is all about. The Habs, on the other hand, hurt no one.... get hurt....and don't respond. Listen to the Habs Hall of Famers speak of Fergie. Serge Savard: "We won a few Stanley Cups because of John Ferguson in Montreal." |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2013 22:48:05 GMT -5
If McCarron can become a Blake Wheeler, I would be Very happy. And if none of them are soft like Benoit Pouliot or mindless like Ak47, I will be happy. I personally think we are getting a larger version of Latendresse, after he hurt that guy in the pre-season, not before .. I've read maybe 6 reports now. They are say the same thing - He has the one thing Montreal is missing, he is big. So? No mention of skill, no mention of talent, no mention of hitting either. Even that video posted on this thread does not show him hitting. They show him grinding, good board work, and the reports say that too. So we drafted Bigfoot. I've yet to read one report that suggests any of our picks can be better than third liners. Heck, I read one on De la Rose that said his ceiling is third line. I want to be excited about this draft. But I feel we drafted height and weight ... We need some skill too. Is he plan to bomb for 2-3 yrs to get that skill? Cause if it is, Bergevin is ruining what was a good team he inherited. |
|
|
|
Post by The Habitual Fan on Jul 2, 2013 4:26:56 GMT -5
The team he inherited finished in last place in the division and 28th overall. A team that was called too soft and small to compete and a team that had too many guys playing for their own interest and not as a team. Not what anyone would consider a good team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 2, 2013 10:23:52 GMT -5
The team he inherited finished in last place in the division and 28th overall. A team that was called too soft and small to compete and a team that had too many guys playing for their own interest and not as a team. Not what anyone would consider a good team. The team he has is a division winner, top 5 in the entire league, has a Norris winner and a Calder runner-up on it ... I'd call that a pretty good team. A team that is definitely NOT in a 5 year re-building plan, but rather a team that SHOULD be competing for a cup, with the right management of course.  |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 2, 2013 10:59:32 GMT -5
yup, I'm in "get me a freakin' Cup" mode. it's time to build on what we have not mess and hope we can make the playoffs
|
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jul 2, 2013 11:53:53 GMT -5
I'll repeat myself, and ask the question, "How many picks outside the top 5 in a given year have an immediate impact?" Not many. How many picks from this years draft will? I expect MacKinnon, Drouin, and Jones to likely make their teams. Barkov is a question mark. I don't know if he's spending another year in Finland or not. After that, it's a total crap shoot as to who makes it and when.
Looking at the McCarron pick from the other POV, if not him then who? The majority of people we discussed were gone by the time #25 rolled around. We tried to move up to get Morin, but Philadelphia wanted him too and chose not to accept what was apparently a large offer. Before you slag, and there are those that would, how much would you have paid to move up to #11 and pick Morin? Is what you were willing to pay as much as Bergevin was? Would it have been enough to sway Holmgren? Would it make sense? Mantha was gone. Gauthier was gone. Horvat was gone. Some mentioned Erne in real time, and he could be a player. The Habs picked a number of Q leaguers this year as evidence that they've increased scouting in the region. Clearly, they didn't see enough in Erne to pick him. Maybe they would have at 34. McCoshen is a big blue liner, but other than that I know nothing about him. Zykov was perhaps the most talented scorer available at #25, but he fell a lot. Clearly, he failed to impress those that might have had some interest enough to pass him over. IMO, he's a perimeter player and that was reason enough for the team to stay away. Looking further into the second round, I fail to see a name or two that stands out as someone that 'would have been a better pick.'
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 2, 2013 13:20:17 GMT -5
I'll repeat myself, and ask the question, "How many picks outside the top 5 in a given year have an immediate impact?" Not many. How many picks from this years draft will? I expect MacKinnon, Drouin, and Jones to likely make their teams. Barkov is a question mark. I don't know if he's spending another year in Finland or not. After that, it's a total crap shoot as to who makes it and when. Looking at the McCarron pick from the other POV, if not him then who? The majority of people we discussed were gone by the time #25 rolled around. We tried to move up to get Morin, but Philadelphia wanted him too and chose not to accept what was apparently a large offer. Before you slag, and there are those that would, how much would you have paid to move up to #11 and pick Morin? Is what you were willing to pay as much as Bergevin was? Would it have been enough to sway Holmgren? Would it make sense? Mantha was gone. Gauthier was gone. Horvat was gone. Some mentioned Erne in real time, and he could be a player. The Habs picked a number of Q leaguers this year as evidence that they've increased scouting in the region. Clearly, they didn't see enough in Erne to pick him. Maybe they would have at 34. McCoshen is a big blue liner, but other than that I know nothing about him. Zykov was perhaps the most talented scorer available at #25, but he fell a lot. Clearly, he failed to impress those that might have had some interest enough to pass him over. IMO, he's a perimeter player and that was reason enough for the team to stay away. Looking further into the second round, I fail to see a name or two that stands out as someone that 'would have been a better pick.' My comments (I won't speak for anyone else), aren't so much about the quality of the players we picked but rather the quality of the players in the entire draft that was deemed "the deepest draft in a decade". Now if someone has the information, I'd love to see it ... but how many prospects in the first round of 2003 were touted as "potential/projected third liners"? The management of the Habs publicly stated that they felt the way to build a contender is to hold on to their draft picks, especially in this deep draft. Posters on here were raving comparing this draft to snagging a Perry or a Getlaf like in 2003 ... and NOW we are pleased as punch because we will have a big third liner, maybe, in 4-5 years, three years if we are lucky? This wasn't the hype we were promised ... we are still in need of a big top 6 player, and a defenseman. Unless our GM gets over his aversion to the UFA market, we will be years away from making the playoffs again. THIS, in my opinion, was our year, our window, and we let it go for third liners ... |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jul 2, 2013 13:55:26 GMT -5
I think the stuff the media generates is often hyperbole, but when I look at the players selected in at least the first two rounds I see a lot of kids with legitimate shots. There are many drafts where the top couple of kids are about it, and even from 4 or 5 on down the pickings get slim. Examining the top 4 this year and I see sure fire NHL players. I suspect at least two of them will be superstars, maybe all of them. Picks 5 through 11 look to have a really strong mix of varied position and talent. Beyond that, things always thin out some.
You're never going to find a kid at 25 who 'might have gone in the top ten in another year'. I think the common theme in the draft this year was size and strength. Lots of solidly built kids that can score some goals. There are some picks in the second round that are intriguing to though.
Nick Petan, Jones' teammate was picked at #43 by Winnipeg. He scored 120 points in a tough league at 5'9 and 165lbs. It's that lack of size that kept him out of the first round. He'll fill out some. If he can get to the same weight as a Drouin, who's listed 2 inches taller, but I have my doubts, what's an inch or so if you're skilled enough?
There were three goalies taken in the second round. Fucale, Jarry, and DesRosiers. The last was Canada's goalie at the U20. He's very good. I saw him play Halifax during the regular season, and he was very impressive. I know nothing about Jarry, but have seen posts that speak highly of him.
Bottom line, there may or may not be sleepers in this draft. We may not see a guy who we ask, 'how did we let him slip?" I think there's depth in NHL caliber players, but maybe not NHL elite talent.
|
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jul 2, 2013 14:01:21 GMT -5
Unless our GM gets over his aversion to the UFA market, we will be years away from making the playoffs again. THIS, in my opinion, was our year, our window, and we let it go for third liners ... That's a pretty narrow window, Skilly. Your assertion that "Bergevin denied us of a probable Stanley Cup only to draft third liners" is unfalsifiable, i.e. it can't be proven wrong. Although the evidence, to me, strongly suggests we wouldn't have come close to a Stanley Cup if he HAD sacrificed picks and players to acquire Clowe and a dman like O'Byrne. And considering Price's mediocre-to-poor goaltending and Anderson's heroics, we would've been gone in Round 1 no matter who we acquired. But those two players (if they had been the acquisitions) still would've helped in the longer term, no question. Because I think the window is just opening. We finally have some goal-support to build around and protect. Price will have a new goalie coach...hopefully one who leads him back to his strengths. Onwards and upwards...gotta give Bergevin a chance. |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jul 2, 2013 14:29:15 GMT -5
There's plenty of recent history that shows you can't base one year on the next or the previous. We're in a state of flux, but we're not far removed from success. Injuries in game one and a poor playing Price were our foils this year.
I never thought we were as bad as the 28th place finish, and I never thought we were as good as first in the east. A lot of things went wrong the year before, and right this year - until it didn't. Before this year, I wondered if it might be in the best interest to tank a second year. Considering who was available up high, I wouldn't have minded it. Imagine adding any of the players who went in the top 4 to Galchenyuk and the rest of our younger core.
It's that young core that is taking over. Slowly perhaps. It's about surrounding them with the right people. I'm not sold that the UFA stable this year is the one to invest in, though I would invest in Lecavalier. With him, and the addition made through trading a Plekanec or DD, we're a better team imo.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldhabsfan on Jul 5, 2013 5:54:35 GMT -5
I get the impression that some of our picks were based on how the player is trending.
McCarron's skating is said to have improved a lot in the past year. If he is really, as reported, at 240 pounds, and seems to have room for work on his muscles, maybe he will play in the NHL at 260 lb. He is said to backcheck well and to work hard. That suggests to me a versatile player who can see a lot of icetime, and who will have the opportunity to improve.
Lehkonen is reported by several posters to Hockeysfuture to have grown appreciably in the past year; one said 2 inches. Apparently he's now at 6' 11", 163 lb. If he can play at 180-185 lb., and if as reported he is really fast, we may have something. Reportedly his father played at 168 lb., and his uncle at 183 lb. He looks a little narrow-shouldered for my taste and I judge he's a gamble but a worthwhile one.
De la Rose apparently self-reported in an interview as 190 lb. If he can play at 205 (I think about league average) that would be adequate.
Andrighetto reportedly grew significantly in the past year. If he can add even a little to his current 188 lb., I expect he could be quite useful. At 20 years old I'm not expecting too much more.
|
|
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/6F6VF25GCFF2HFJCOITRJSGNPE.jpg)
