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Post by Disp on Feb 5, 2015 18:06:35 GMT -5
Value wise this would be the time to get him, but I don't think we'd want him in the room. He really seems like a Saperlipopette. He may not learn his lesson until his contract is up and nobody offers him the big bucks. Right now, with guaranteed millions, there isn't a whole lot of incentive to change.
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Post by blny on Feb 5, 2015 18:13:05 GMT -5
McKenzie spoke about that run in in the link I posted as well. Essentially, after showing up in the track suit he chose to take the team bus with his teammates. While on the bus one particular teammate (unnamed) rode him pretty hard. Evander didn't like it and pitched a bit of a fit. You know, blny, Bergevin had done a great job removing the drama that swirled around our club for a few years ... I know Kane has the talent ... maybe he's a problem and maybe he's just trying his best to get out of Winnipeg ... dunno ... Cheers. Feel the same. From the outside looking in, there are too many red flags for me. Were I in Berg's shoes, I'd be wanting a few things before committing to a trade for Kane. 1. Winnipeg's permission to speak with Evander and his agent. Get a sense, a real sense, of the type of person he is. Is he more than the kid that took a selfie in Vegas with many thousands of dollars in his hand? 2. Is Montreal going to be a problem for him. Is he willing to come to Montreal, fit into the structure in place, and be a part of the group. Or, is it all about him? 3. A clear run down on his injuries this year, including the one that could lead to surgery. That means a consult with him and his doctors. He's a talented kid who turns 24 this year. Given all the issues, over more than just a season, I'd be hesitant to give up the farm for him. I'd do Eller and our first if I was comfortably able to check off all the things above. I wouldn't do three pieces, and I'm not sure how much interest the Jets would have in Tinordi. |
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Post by HFTO on Feb 5, 2015 18:16:59 GMT -5
This group is far from perfect but from all we can see and hear it's a good tight group that plays for each other.
The run last year in many ways has put undue expectations on this team.
This is year 3 of the MB era and despite the good drafting the development stage is still 2 years behind.
Carey Price is just hitting his prime injury aside this caliber of goaltending isn't taking a dip anytime soon.
I want this team to win more than anything but given how close they are hate to deviate from the plan.
IMO next year will give you a better sense how close they really are.
Hope additions are coming but not the ones that could derail the window that seems to be opening for the long run.
HFTO
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 5, 2015 18:54:45 GMT -5
ESPN article about Kane's latest "scratch". ================================================================= Apparently it was more than just a fashion faux pas that led to Winnipeg Jets forward Evander Kane being scratched for Tuesday night's game in Vancouver.
According to a Sportsnet report, Kane was a no-show to the game because of an incident with teammates earlier that day.
It was originally reported in Winnipeg that Kane was punished for arriving to the rink Tuesday morning in a tracksuit rather than a formal dress suit, thereby violating the team dress code, but the Sportsnet report indicates that this was not the most serious transgression.
According to the report, teammate Dustin Byfuglien threw Kane's tracksuit into the shower after the team's morning skate, presumably to send a message about the breach of protocol.
Kane then failed to show up for the team bus and pregame meeting, according to the report. Although it was reported that, when finally reached by the Jets, Kane told the team he would not play Tuesday, a source told ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun that ultimately it was Winnipeg that told Kane not to show up.
Kane was on his way to the rink but was late getting there and the decision was made by the organization to make Kane a healthy scratch, so Kane was instructed to return to the team hotel, a team source told LeBrun.
The scratch came as a surprise, especially considering it happened in Kane's hometown of Vancouver, where he had earlier told the media he was excited to play.
Jets coach Paul Maurice declined to elaborate on his decision to scratch Kane.
Kane did not practice Thursday and was placed on injured reserve retroactive to Feb. 2. The earliest he is eligible to return is Feb. 10. According to the Sportsnet report, Kane has battled an injury throughout the year that could require season-ending surgery.
He has been dogged by trade rumors for the past few years, and his future with the Jets has been a constant source for debate. That is unlikely to abate with the ongoing situation, although it might make any potential suitors think twice if the claims in the report are accurate.==================================================================== Not saying that Bergevin is incapable of getting such a player to fly right…but this is a big-time player on a team 6 pts. up in a Wild Card position….and only 3 back of Chicago for the 3rd divisional seed. Must be driving the Jets' fans nuts…..as did our circus antics a few years ago. Due diligence, as Dis has outlined…IF that's allowed.
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Post by blny on Feb 5, 2015 20:01:30 GMT -5
Kane placed on IR. His status will go a long way to determining value and if he goes before the Summer.
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Post by franko on Feb 5, 2015 21:38:10 GMT -5
Kane will either be operated on now [so no trade] or this summer.
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Post by jkr on Feb 5, 2015 22:18:20 GMT -5
I say stay away. Too self centred, too selfish. He had to know that breaking the dress code would have repercussions but he did it anyway.
IMO it's all about Evander Kane. No thanks.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2015 5:40:51 GMT -5
Ray Ferraro was on 690 saying has to be more to it than we are hearing. As no way Jets bench him for showing up to morning skate in track suit. Not a guy with Kane's talent, in a big game against team fighting for playoff berth against. Jets haven't made playoffs since their return to Winnipeg.
He did say as a player he was more mature at 25 or 27 than he was at 23.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2015 9:00:41 GMT -5
Such a tough call. The Jets will be asking for a return equivalent to a star player, but for all the hype Kane hasn't done anything to merit such a return. Career high of 57 points? Meh. Sure, 30 goals is nice, but Michael Ryder gave us that too and nobody was lining up to give us a player, pick and a prospect for him.
Oh, but the package, and the potential. I mean, Kane has it all, right? And he's still so young... When did Pacioretty start to blossom? 24? How old is Kane... drool. If you can get a 35-40 goal power-forward... But how would he do in the bright lights of Montreal? You can write off each individual incident, but at some point, straws, water bearing desert creatures and fractured vertebrae, right? Can Mellanby, Churla and Lapointe reign him in? What does Rick Dudley REALLY think about him?
Could make or break a few GMs this whole thing could.
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2015 9:55:14 GMT -5
are you suggesting that MT would move Max down to the third line? lol... MT will do anything to keep those 2 together. as he said yesterday, "they work well together". back together for the game tomorrow. |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2015 10:39:58 GMT -5
Given all the turmoil, the Jets will likely have to settle for less than what they want. It was discussed on tsn. The return will likely be two pieces. One that can go in the lineup and help now, and a prospect/pick. I don't think Eller and a high pick or prospect is out of line, given the Jets predicament and stigma Kane has created for himself. I know Jets fans won't think that's enough. Eller's a more than capable 3rd line center, sometimes capable 2nd line center, with size and speed. First round this year, or a guy like McCarron, added in is fair value in this situation. If Kane were performing at a high level, and was a model citizen, you'd have to offer more.
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Post by jkr on Feb 6, 2015 11:26:15 GMT -5
Given all the turmoil, the Jets will likely have to settle for less than what they want. It was discussed on tsn. The return will likely be two pieces. One that can go in the lineup and help now, and a prospect/pick. I don't think Eller and a high pick or prospect is out of line, given the Jets predicament and stigma Kane has created for himself. I know Jets fans won't think that's enough. Eller's a more than capable 3rd line center, sometimes capable 2nd line center, with size and speed. First round this year, or a guy like McCarron, added in is fair value in this situation. If Kane were performing at a high level, and was a model citizen, you'd have to offer more. Watched Sportsnet last night & Doug McLean is still clinging to the player/prospect/high pick package that Kane may have fetched if he was a model citizen. He's completely ignored all the drama & still thinks the Jets will get 3 pieces.  |
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Post by Polarice on Feb 6, 2015 11:31:26 GMT -5
Given all the turmoil, the Jets will likely have to settle for less than what they want. It was discussed on tsn. The return will likely be two pieces. One that can go in the lineup and help now, and a prospect/pick. I don't think Eller and a high pick or prospect is out of line, given the Jets predicament and stigma Kane has created for himself. I know Jets fans won't think that's enough. Eller's a more than capable 3rd line center, sometimes capable 2nd line center, with size and speed. First round this year, or a guy like McCarron, added in is fair value in this situation. If Kane were performing at a high level, and was a model citizen, you'd have to offer more. Watched Sportsnet last night & Doug McLean is still clinging to the player/prospect/high pick package that Kane may have fetched if he was a model citizen. He's completely ignored all the drama & still thinks the Jets will get 3 pieces. I'm pretty sure if the Jets could get a 1st for him he'd be gone!! |
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2015 11:48:57 GMT -5
If Kane were performing at a high level, and was a model citizen, you'd have to offer more. it's the other Kane I want |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2015 12:11:33 GMT -5
If Kane were performing at a high level, and was a model citizen, you'd have to offer more. it's the other Kane I want Citizen? lol |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2015 12:36:35 GMT -5
Shane Hnidy reporting that Evander will have shoulder surgery and be out 4-6 months. That will shut down any trade notion for the time being. I'd expect you might see him move at the draft.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 6, 2015 13:32:55 GMT -5
A fixed shoulder likely won't cure what prompted Byfuglien to toss the track suit into the shower. Unfortunately there is no ego/attitude tendon they can adjust while they're in there.
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2015 13:40:02 GMT -5
A fixed shoulder likely won't cure what prompted Byfuglien to toss the track suit into the shower. Unfortunately there is no ego/attitude tendon they can adjust while they're in there. LOL.  |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2015 14:23:58 GMT -5
A fixed shoulder likely won't cure what prompted Byfuglien to toss the track suit into the shower. Unfortunately there is no ego/attitude tendon they can adjust while they're in there. Couple of things of which to be careful. If you listened to all the rumours/complaints about a certain PK Subban a couple of years ago, you might have thought he had character flaws as well. If you believed a guy couldn't mature, you might trade a Tyler Seguin for two average or slightly above average wingers. Hey, I fully admit I love all the on-ice stuff that Evander Kane brings to a team and am concerned about the stories as well. Gary Lawless of the Winnipeg Free Press has been covering "the Kane saga" closely and had a good article today on the matter: www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/The-Kane-saga-291013591.html?cx_navSource=d-popular-viewsThe Kane saga
Buff's laundry stunt may have crossed the line, but there's plenty of blame to go around, including Ladd, Maurice and Cheveldayoff
By: Gary Lawless
First, let’s get to the blame because there’s so much of it to spread around.
Line them up. Andrew Ladd, Dustin Byfuglien, Evander Kane, Paul Maurice and Kevin Cheveldayoff for starters. Throw in anyone else associated with the Jets and they can get a piece of the action, too. No one, and I mean no one, has covered themselves with glory on this file. The result today, is a Winnipeg Jets team fractured with a star player desperately wanting to be anywhere but the thick of a playoff fight with his teammates.
Some have suggested this week’s doings will result in galvanizing this team and they’ll surge on to the post-season. Maybe. Or maybe it breaks them. Either way, this was a gamble that could and should have been avoided.
Evander Kane may have kickstarted this little drama but it has been made worse by Byfuglien and Ladd. Head coach Maurice and GM Cheveldayoff, should not have let it come to this.
Let’s review: Kane shows up for a team meeting in sweats. Byfuglien determines this isn’t good enough and tosses his teammates gear into a shower or a cold tub. Kane’s belongings are soaked and his pride and very likely his heart are damaged. He’s been humiliated by one of his big brothers. By one of the men he’s lived and worked with going on six years. Maybe there was a time when this manner of sending a message was accepted and worked, but no longer. It just made a mess.
Ladd is the captain of this room and anything that happens behind those closed doors is his responsibility. He needs to have his finger on the pulse of things. If he stood by and let Byfuglien commit this act — it’s on him. If he missed and then couldn’t or wouldn’t solve the issue before it blew up as it has — again it’s on him.
Same goes for Maurice. This coach likes to say he lets the players run the room. Fine. But at some point in time Tuesday when this was playing out, Maurice had to determine his influence was needed. He’s lost a player. A skilled and productive forward on a team that just can’t afford to move on without a suitable replacement.
If Kane is indeed done with the Jets and Cheveldayoff can’t put together a deal to replace him, it’s hard to imagine this ending well for Winnipeg.
Playoffs? Without Kane or a reasonable facsimile? Good luck. And if these childish dressing room antics result in the Jets watching a once promising season swirl down the toilet — good grief.
Finally, some of this falls on Cheveldayoff’s desk. There have been numerous warning signs where Kane was concerned. This was a marriage destined to end. It could have ended amicably with both sides walking away with their dignity. Not now. This is a full-blown divorce, where most often only the lawyers win.
Cheveldayoff now must endeavour to swing a deal to replace Kane with very little leverage. He’s now trying to move an injured player who has been ostracized by his teammates.
Maybe the GM makes a deal that strengthens the Jets, but it will be akin to falling into a pile of crap and still coming out smelling like a rose. It will be unplanned and it will be rushed. In a word, it will be entirely un-Cheveldayoff.
Kane is in the vanguard of the new NHL player. Trying to shame or bully Kane into conforming has been a complete failure and the Jets now have an untenable situation.
Kane has an injured shoulder and has now been insulted by his very teammates. If he didn’t want out before, with the way he’s been treated by the organization that has been his home for his entire career, he most certainly does now.
Byfuglien did what veterans have done to teammates for a long time — he tried to mock Kane into submission.
Forget that this type of behavior is no longer accepted and focus on the fact it didn’t work. Byfuglien, who by all accounts isn’t a bully, tried to send a message but his tactics were clumsy and poorly executed.
Having operated in and around dressing rooms for over 20 years, I’m not naive enough to think the atmosphere pro athletes work in is like any other. It’s different. The language, the expectations, the pay grade and the demands are all foreign to outsiders.
Try as we might, unless we’re in a dressing room as part of the family on a day-in and day-out basis — we’re nothing more than outsiders.
We’ll never know all the details of what led to this ridiculous set of circumstances. But the results have now been laid bare for all to see and assess.
This season is now in peril. Maybe the Jets pull out of it but they’ve taken an unnecessary gamble. They’ve let pride and ego and a lack of accountability take root in their midst and what happens from here is anybody’s guess.
If this is indeed the turning point that sees the Jets kick into a higher gear, then maybe Byfuglien is truly a master manipulator and a leader to be lauded.
If this, however, turns out to be the beginning of the end the Jets will have exposed themselves in the worst of ways. They will have shot themselves in the foot and it will have been all so unnecessary. And they’ll have themselves to blame. From top to bottom.
gary.lawless@freepress.mb.ca
Maybe he's giving Kane too much credit and spreading too much blame elsewhere, but I know at that age, my pride often overcame reason and probably helped me make a few poor decisions. I was trying to figure out how they got Kane's track suit off him to throw in the shower, but I understand he was going for some treatment, so obviously had to take it off. That reminded me of some movie scenes where the guy goes skinny dipping with his 'girlfriend' who turns out to be not so nice and she and her friends steal the guys clothes and she skips out with them, leaving him to make his way home on foot, in the Buff (Pardon the pun). If one looks at it that way it can feel like you've been betrayed. Yeah, Kane probably brought it on himself (I have an issue with that rule anyway), but getting Kane's sweat suit wet, is more than juvenile. Back to that rule. It wasn't a team trip, it was a meeting which I would equate to the ones that Therrien held as witnessed on CH24 where the team is watching video. Did you see any business suits in there? Not a chance. It wasn't a public outing, where I'd expect a suit or something that the team has authorized (costumes or whatever depending on the occasion). Making the team wear suits to a team meeting smacks more of being a warden than being a leader. The track suit thing is a sympton, not a cause, but Lawless brings up some good points. What it tells me is that I wouldn't necessarily stop talking to Chevaldayoff about a deal. I don't think Kane's problems are permanent or fixed. From a skill standpoint, I think his performance would be greatly affected by a shoulder injury. I'm amazed he's playing at all, which might be another reason for his attitude. Should he have had surgery a while ago? Has he been pressured into playing (the player's code, blah, blah). This is anything but a clear situation. Just thinking about other players with 'issues'. Isn't it amazing how MIke Ribeiro keeps getting picked up by one team or another? He doesn't last long there, but he produces. Not that I'm advocating picking up Mike. He's one guy I wouldn't want on my team. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2015 14:24:55 GMT -5
Can you trade an injured player? Because I'm thinking that Winnipeg needs a player to replace him for their playoff run, so a team like Buffalo might be uniquely positioned to give them some roster players without worrying about hurting their own team and their own playoff runs. Plus they have the extra draft picks to sweeten the deal as well. Imagine Kane going from Winnipeg to Buffalo? It ain't any warmer!  Back to the Habs, Petr Svboda was on the Team 690 talking about his client Jagr, and how he really wanted to come to Montreal after his stint in the KHL, but that Montreal was going in a different direction at the time. Does Bergevin now try to form an all Kladno line of Sekac, Plekanec and Jagr? An actual Czeching line? |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2015 14:26:17 GMT -5
Boo, hiss. (to the pun)
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Post by jkr on Feb 6, 2015 14:43:00 GMT -5
Can you trade an injured player? Because I'm thinking that Winnipeg needs a player to replace him for their playoff run, so a team like Buffalo might be uniquely positioned to give them some roster players without worrying about hurting their own team and their own playoff runs. Plus they have the extra draft picks to sweeten the deal as well. Imagine Kane going from Winnipeg to Buffalo? It ain't any warmer! Back to the Habs, Petr Svboda was on the Team 690 talking about his client Jagr, and how he really wanted to come to Montreal after his stint in the KHL, but that Montreal was going in a different direction at the time. Does Bergevin now try to form an all Kladno line of Sekac, Plekanec and Jagr? An actual Czeching line? Gainey traded Theodore when he had a broken ankle. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 6, 2015 14:43:57 GMT -5
OK. Who do we talk about now? Who's next on list?  Ryan O'Reilly? |
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Post by blny on Feb 6, 2015 14:49:56 GMT -5
Is it possible Kane wore the track suit because it was easier to get into than anything else what with his shoulder?
The piece by Lawless is a good one. Unbiased view from a guy that covers that group daily. He's as likely to have a bead on things as anyone.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2015 15:01:51 GMT -5
Shane Hnidy reporting that Evander will have shoulder surgery and be out 4-6 months. That will shut down any trade notion for the time being. I'd expect you might see him move at the draft. Well that stops the trade rumours anyway |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 6, 2015 15:07:12 GMT -5
Yeah, the piece by Lawless is well-written....but it's full of certainty and assertions until near the end when he throws in the disclaimer below....which, to me, says he's really no more in-the-know on this issue than any of us.
Try as we might, unless we’re in a dressing room as part of the family on a day-in and day-out basis — we’re nothing more than outsiders.
We’ll never know all the details of what led to this ridiculous set of circumstances.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 6, 2015 15:07:19 GMT -5
Can you trade an injured player? Because I'm thinking that Winnipeg needs a player to replace him for their playoff run, so a team like Buffalo might be uniquely positioned to give them some roster players without worrying about hurting their own team and their own playoff runs. Plus they have the extra draft picks to sweeten the deal as well. Imagine Kane going from Winnipeg to Buffalo? It ain't any warmer! Back to the Habs, Petr Svboda was on the Team 690 talking about his client Jagr, and how he really wanted to come to Montreal after his stint in the KHL, but that Montreal was going in a different direction at the time. Does Bergevin now try to form an all Kladno line of Sekac, Plekanec and Jagr? An actual Czeching line? I like the idea of getting Jagr. Don't have to give up core of our future and he should help our powerplay |
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2015 15:55:42 GMT -5
Is it possible Kane wore the track suit because it was easier to get into than anything else what with his shoulder? sounds like (lotsa "sounds like"s) Kane may have (lotsa them too) thought the team meeting was in the hotel not at the rink; left himself too short of time, and would have missed the bus to the meeting to change so instead went "imporperly dressed". if this would have been a first offense the clothes thing might not have happened (and the "clothes thing" happens a lot). if Kane were "one of the guys" he may have taken it a little less harshly. if, if, if. it happened. maybe he just wants out and he's doing what he can to go. we'll know when we know. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 6, 2015 18:16:58 GMT -5
Can you trade an injured player? Because I'm thinking that Winnipeg needs a player to replace him for their playoff run, so a team like Buffalo might be uniquely positioned to give them some roster players without worrying about hurting their own team and their own playoff runs. Plus they have the extra draft picks to sweeten the deal as well. Imagine Kane going from Winnipeg to Buffalo? It ain't any warmer! Back to the Habs, Petr Svboda was on the Team 690 talking about his client Jagr, and how he really wanted to come to Montreal after his stint in the KHL, but that Montreal was going in a different direction at the time. Does Bergevin now try to form an all Kladno line of Sekac, Plekanec and Jagr? An actual Czeching line? I think you were suggesting Vermette last year too, but I could be wrong ... the Habs Facebook page is asking which player would you like to see in Montreal; Jagr or Vermette (don't know who the choice was, didn't check) ... there's another page asking, "is Eller gone if the Habs land Vermette" ... I guess Svboda has already talked with Bergevin, but that was in 2013 ... don't know what Bergevin will do but I suspect Jagr might have the character and experience moving forward ... Vermette has his strengths too ... we'd land another good faceoff guy who can score the odd goal ... Cheers. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 6, 2015 19:24:47 GMT -5
Can you trade an injured player? Because I'm thinking that Winnipeg needs a player to replace him for their playoff run, so a team like Buffalo might be uniquely positioned to give them some roster players without worrying about hurting their own team and their own playoff runs. Plus they have the extra draft picks to sweeten the deal as well. Imagine Kane going from Winnipeg to Buffalo? It ain't any warmer! Back to the Habs, Petr Svboda was on the Team 690 talking about his client Jagr, and how he really wanted to come to Montreal after his stint in the KHL, but that Montreal was going in a different direction at the time. Does Bergevin now try to form an all Kladno line of Sekac, Plekanec and Jagr? An actual Czeching line? I think you were suggesting Vermette last year too, but I could be wrong ... the Habs Facebook page is asking which player would you like to see in Montreal; Jagr or Vermette (don't know who the choice was, didn't check) ... there's another page asking, "is Eller gone if the Habs land Vermette" ... I guess Svboda has already talked with Bergevin, but that was in 2013 ... don't know what Bergevin will do but I suspect Jagr might have the character and experience moving forward ... Vermette has his strengths too ... we'd land another good faceoff guy who can score the odd goal ... Cheers. I'd want Jagr before Vermette... we need goals, our faceoff% is tied for tops in the league. Also I love the idea of a CZECHing line as stated above. We might even see the'Evolution of Jagr' guys at the Centre Bell |
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