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Post by BadCompany on Feb 16, 2015 8:56:12 GMT -5
I'm starting to think that Eller is a "throw-back" player that doesn't fit into the new NHL. And by that I mean that Eller has the skill set to be a great 3rd liner checker, a true defensive player in the Guy Carbonneau, Bob Gainey mold. Not Hall-of-Fame as good of course, but that kind of player.
The problem is the NHL doesn't really use those types of players anymore. The "defensive" stars of the league now are all offensive players who also have great defensive abilities. Think Bergeron, Datsyuk, even our own Plekanec. There is no "3rd line" in the traditional sense anymore, and your "defensive" players who go up against other team's top lines are often on what we would call a 1st or 2nd line. Teams play more "power-on-power" type of hockey than in the past, where you would have one line entirely dedicated to just shutting down another.
Having said that, I still like Eller. He's got size, he can skate, he's engaged, he can fit in anywhere on my "four lines of skating fury" roster. As has been mentioned the team/coach just don't seem to know what to do with him. I'd be fine leaving him as a 3rd line center, giving him a couple of wingers/kids, some penalty killing time, and just ignoring his production, or lack thereof. I don't think Eller hurts the team, I think he can help the team in little, perhaps unmeasurable ways, and I'm not sure anybody who replaces him in the role he is used in who do much better.
Of course if the right offer comes along...
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Post by Disp on Feb 16, 2015 10:15:46 GMT -5
Eller's game is pretty good, he just doesn't get enough points. Always expect a little more from him. Still a very useful guy to have though. Even if he's not scoring the puck usually ends up in the other teams end when he's on the ice. I'd be hesitant to trade him. Depending on where he goes and how he is used it might be one of those deals we regret. He's kind of stuck in a role here that isn't going to generate a whole lot of offense. His line mates always seem to be left overs.
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 16, 2015 10:54:29 GMT -5
Eller is doing the role that was asked of him. If you want more points, he is going to have to cheat a little bit. If he does that, it becomes a Leaf situation - sacrificing defense for offence. The coach has to decide if that is how you want him to play.
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Post by jkr on Feb 16, 2015 15:07:45 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2015 15:42:27 GMT -5
Not earth-shattering news imo. It echos what we've been discussing. I will say this though. Carey Price is 28. Barring serious injury, he's got perhaps 5-6 years before we start to see any sort of decline. Pacioretty is 26. Desharnais 27. Of the young group behind them Subban is the oldest at 25. The Habs core is by no means old, but I don't think it's wise to waste time. This is a good team. It's not without issue, but our biggest issue - goals/PP - isn't likely to be solved internally any time soon. Scherbak and McCarron can't be counted on to make the club next year. Nor should they be. Markov is 35 and represents a huge hole in our roster when he retires. I think Berg owes it to the group we have to do everything he can to make hay while the sun shines. Focusing on the future, and the expense of the present, isn't always the right move. This team CAN push through the East. The Kings are flirting with disaster. Nashville look very good, but we stack up well against them imo. The prevailing thought in house may be that a returning, healthy, PAP is like a deadline acquisition. I don't agree. He struggled to fit in before injury. They can't rely on him. If Eller and a couple of pieces from the cupboard can land a goal scoring winger, or a big center that pushes DD back to the wing, I'd have to strongly consider it. I wouldn't be too concerned about the side the winger plays either. When Cole was here he and Max took turns on the off wing. Pacioretty-DD-Weise (acquisition)-Galchenyuk-Gallagher DLR/Bournival-Plekanec-Sekac Prust-Malhotra-PAP/one of the kids on rotation or Pacioretty-DD-Weise Galchenyuk-(acquisition)-Gallagher DLR/Bournival-Plekanec-Sekac Prust-Malhotra-PAP/one of the kids on rotation Either scenario has the acquired player, likely one with experience, on the Gals' line. It shelters them either way. Plekanec will fill the 3rd line role easily. If it's the right foeward I don't think they miss a beat. Weise on a first line may not be ideal, but he's shown enough chemistry that balancing things out with the acquired player on Gals line could be okay. |
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Post by Disp on Feb 16, 2015 16:59:27 GMT -5
Eller is doing the role that was asked of him. If you want more points, he is going to have to cheat a little bit. If he does that, it becomes a Leaf situation - sacrificing defense for offence. The coach has to decide if that is how you want him to play. I don't think he needs to cheat. I think he needs better line mates. Seems like anybody he does well with gets promoted. He'll end up on some team, rolled out as a 2nd line center and do fine. |
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2015 17:09:26 GMT -5
Eller is doing the role that was asked of him. If you want more points, he is going to have to cheat a little bit. If he does that, it becomes a Leaf situation - sacrificing defense for offence. The coach has to decide if that is how you want him to play. I don't think he needs to cheat. I think he needs better line mates. Seems like anybody he does well with gets promoted. He'll end up on some team, rolled out as a 2nd line center and do fine. I expect it too, but with DD, Eller, Galch, and him ... someone's got to go. If he nets the best return ... |
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Post by Disp on Feb 16, 2015 17:27:50 GMT -5
Kind of reminds me of Leclair a bit. Pigeon-holed into a role, or a certain expectation, just needs a change to get it going.
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Post by jkr on Feb 16, 2015 17:58:07 GMT -5
Not earth-shattering news imo. It echos what we've been discussing. I will say this though. Carey Price is 28. Barring serious injury, he's got perhaps 5-6 years before we start to see any sort of decline. Just a small thing but Price won't be 28 until August. Agree totally on Parenteau. He was mired in a very long slump before his injury & all he has really contributed is some shoot out success. Did not understand this deal. Bergevin's MO has been to trade term for expiring deals but this deal with Briere was the opposite |
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2015 18:33:02 GMT -5
Not earth-shattering news imo. It echos what we've been discussing. I will say this though. Carey Price is 28. Barring serious injury, he's got perhaps 5-6 years before we start to see any sort of decline. Just a small thing but Price won't be 28 until August. Agree totally on Parenteau. He was mired in a very long slump before his injury & all he has really contributed is some shoot out success. Did not understand this deal. Bergevin's MO has been to trade term for expiring deals but this deal with Briere was the opposite I liked it at the time. PAP has had success before, producing good numbers on two teams. Just hasn't fit yet. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 16, 2015 18:42:24 GMT -5
PAP was the price for ridding ourselves of Briere. Concerning Eller, while watching Bob McKeown today, both Friedeman and Chris Stephenson are on and Friedeman quoted Bergevin as saying that some players get you to the playoffs and others get you through the playoffs. Berg has Eller firmly in the getting you through the playoffs category. I have to agree that he does elevate his game when it counts. So it would be a tough call to trade him. Better be getting something really necessary in return.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 16, 2015 20:29:19 GMT -5
I was thinking same thing few days ago. We are not quite there, not our time yet. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 17, 2015 11:51:30 GMT -5
Sorry for raining on Eller's love fest guys but...
I think Eller’s playoff prowesses are a bit overstated… I mean Eller and Bourque got hot in the pond hockey round against Tampa, given, but past that he was not a dominant player at all… Eller was held pointless in 8 of the following 12 games, posting a -6 in those… and he struggled in the faceoff circle with a 45% average.
There is more to Eller’s issues that not producing… the guy greatly lacks intensity and that is my biggest problem with him… He should be a physical player but at 26 still struggles with being that guy consistently… he lets himself be easily beat one on one and IMO his defensive positioning is far from where it should be if I was to be convinced about him being a great defensive player.
At 19 DLR is already showing signs that he will eat Eller’s lunch very very soon... I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Eller right now, as he is, IMO, one mediocre playoff performance away, to being worth not much anymore…
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 17, 2015 12:40:14 GMT -5
I would have been happy to live with Briere's expiring deal for this year and either keep him for depth, a seat in the press box, or even just buy him out. Either way he would be gone at the end of the year. Now we have to deal with PAP next year as well.
Eller is a weird case. Berg obviously felt highly enough of him to sign him to that 4-year deal. At an AAV of $3.5 million, the contract isn't a cap killer, it's in line with what "top 9" players make, it builds in some upside for the Habs if he produces, but is also a tradeable contract in the right deal. All the advanced stats indicate he is a plus performer for the Habs in terms of faceoffs, Corsi, and driving play to the offensive zone.... but he is a production black hole. I'm inclined to agree with BC - he's an ideal 3rd line centre, and as long as you don't expect much offense from him he can be a contributor to a contending team.
But I also agree with Doc about DLR. I can see him making Eller redundant in the not too distant future.
My trade thought right now is Erik Cole. He's in the last year of his contract, Dallas is basically out of contention with Seguin on IR, he's on a 25-goal pace, he brings more size, he would come cheap, we can reunite him with DD and Pacioretty...
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Post by blny on Feb 17, 2015 12:51:15 GMT -5
I would have been happy to live with Briere's expiring deal for this year and either keep him for depth, a seat in the press box, or even just buy him out. Either way he would be gone at the end of the year. Now we have to deal with PAP next year as well. Eller is a weird case. Berg obviously felt highly enough of him to sign him to that 4-year deal. At an AAV of $3.5 million, the contract isn't a cap killer, it's in line with what "top 9" players make, it builds in some upside for the Habs if he produces, but is also a tradeable contract in the right deal. All the advanced stats indicate he is a plus performer for the Habs in terms of faceoffs, Corsi, and driving play to the offensive zone.... but he is a production black hole. I'm inclined to agree with BC - he's an ideal 3rd line centre, and as long as you don't expect much offense from him he can be a contributor to a contending team. But I also agree with Doc about DLR. I can see him making Eller redundant in the not too distant future. My trade thought right now is Erik Cole. He's in the last year of his contract, Dallas is basically out of contention with Seguin on IR, he's on a 25-goal pace, he brings more size, he would come cheap, we can reunite him with DD and Pacioretty... There's good and bad history there. He'd clearly be a rental as he'd likely have zero interest in staying. I wouldn't be offering up too much. I'd go so far as to offer the equivalent 3rd we got with Ryder in the trade that sent him to Dallas. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 17, 2015 12:53:58 GMT -5
I would have been happy to live with Briere's expiring deal for this year and either keep him for depth, a seat in the press box, or even just buy him out. Either way he would be gone at the end of the year. Now we have to deal with PAP next year as well. Eller is a weird case. Berg obviously felt highly enough of him to sign him to that 4-year deal. At an AAV of $3.5 million, the contract isn't a cap killer, it's in line with what "top 9" players make, it builds in some upside for the Habs if he produces, but is also a tradeable contract in the right deal. All the advanced stats indicate he is a plus performer for the Habs in terms of faceoffs, Corsi, and driving play to the offensive zone.... but he is a production black hole. I'm inclined to agree with BC - he's an ideal 3rd line centre, and as long as you don't expect much offense from him he can be a contributor to a contending team. But I also agree with Doc about DLR. I can see him making Eller redundant in the not too distant future. My trade thought right now is Erik Cole. He's in the last year of his contract, Dallas is basically out of contention with Seguin on IR, he's on a 25-goal pace, he brings more size, he would come cheap, we can reunite him with DD and Pacioretty... I was thinking that myself yesterday. Wouldn't cost much and would build on some existent chemistry. Add a player like Iginla and we become a bigger team, built more for the playoffs. |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 17, 2015 18:58:27 GMT -5
I would have been happy to live with Briere's expiring deal for this year and either keep him for depth, a seat in the press box, or even just buy him out. Either way he would be gone at the end of the year. Now we have to deal with PAP next year as well. Eller is a weird case. Berg obviously felt highly enough of him to sign him to that 4-year deal. At an AAV of $3.5 million, the contract isn't a cap killer, it's in line with what "top 9" players make, it builds in some upside for the Habs if he produces, but is also a tradeable contract in the right deal. All the advanced stats indicate he is a plus performer for the Habs in terms of faceoffs, Corsi, and driving play to the offensive zone.... but he is a production black hole. I'm inclined to agree with BC - he's an ideal 3rd line centre, and as long as you don't expect much offense from him he can be a contributor to a contending team. But I also agree with Doc about DLR. I can see him making Eller redundant in the not too distant future. My trade thought right now is Erik Cole. He's in the last year of his contract, Dallas is basically out of contention with Seguin on IR, he's on a 25-goal pace, he brings more size, he would come cheap, we can reunite him with DD and Pacioretty... Cole wanted to leave Montreal once though |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 17, 2015 20:02:07 GMT -5
Sorry for raining on Eller's love fest guys but... I think Eller’s playoff prowesses are a bit overstated… I mean Eller and Bourque got hot in the pond hockey round against Tampa, given, but past that he was not a dominant player at all… Eller was held pointless in 8 of the following 12 games, posting a -6 in those… and he struggled in the faceoff circle with a 45% average. There is more to Eller’s issues that not producing… the guy greatly lacks intensity and that is my biggest problem with him… He should be a physical player but at 26 still struggles with being that guy consistently… he lets himself be easily beat one on one and IMO his defensive positioning is far from where it should be if I was to be convinced about him being a great defensive player. At 19 DLR is already showing signs that he will eat Eller’s lunch very very soon... I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Eller right now, as he is, IMO, one mediocre playoff performance away, to being worth not much anymore… Remember what Bergs said about Eller though. There's guys who get to the playoffs, then there's guys who get you thru the playoffs. He said Eller one of those guys who get you through the playoffs. Primetime said last night on Roundtable, Bergs been keeping busy schedule. Was at Wolves game yesterday, Marlies game today, then they said Bergs suppose to be bringing his whole entourage to Leafs game. Sounds like big name involved to bring that many in and involved a Leafs prospect to take in a Marlie game. Kessel? JVR? Polak? Bozak? IDK. Can see Bergs dipping into his farm if he gets a good young player with term. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 17, 2015 20:05:12 GMT -5
I'm looking for a reference to confirm it but I guess Bergevin, Dudley and Carriere are all at the Pathers/Leafs game tonight ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Feb 17, 2015 20:10:44 GMT -5
I'm looking for a reference to confirm it but I guess Bergevin, Dudley and Carriere are all at the Pathers/Leafs game tonight ... Cheers. This thread on HF confirms it. hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?p=97455105#post97455105GM, AGM, special advisor to GM, two scouts, and their legal/capologist in Sedgwick. Berg took in a Marlies game recently as well. Have to think he's got his eye on a roster player and a prospect. |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 17, 2015 22:19:54 GMT -5
Yep…in the post-game on TSN, they made sure to show Bergevin in attendance.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 17, 2015 23:18:41 GMT -5
Get ready to welcome Phil.   |
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Post by PTH on Feb 18, 2015 0:14:59 GMT -5
Sorry for raining on Eller's love fest guys but... I think Eller’s playoff prowesses are a bit overstated… I mean Eller and Bourque got hot in the pond hockey round against Tampa, given, but past that he was not a dominant player at all… Eller was held pointless in 8 of the following 12 games, posting a -6 in those… and he struggled in the faceoff circle with a 45% average. There is more to Eller’s issues that not producing… the guy greatly lacks intensity and that is my biggest problem with him… He should be a physical player but at 26 still struggles with being that guy consistently… he lets himself be easily beat one on one and IMO his defensive positioning is far from where it should be if I was to be convinced about him being a great defensive player. At 19 DLR is already showing signs that he will eat Eller’s lunch very very soon... I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Eller right now, as he is, IMO, one mediocre playoff performance away, to being worth not much anymore… Remember what Bergs said about Eller though. There's guys who get to the playoffs, then there's guys who get you thru the playoffs. He said Eller one of those guys who get you through the playoffs. I gotta agree with Doc. Eller is past the stage where you have to be patient with big guys, and is reminding me more of Chad Kilger and his never-filled "potential" than of a solid NHL forward who can fill a role consistently. As to what Berg said.... of course he's going to be positive about guys on his own team... And right now, with Bournival, Prust, DLR, Malhotra and Dumont all able to play C on lines 3 and 4, I think we've got depth at that position (and I'm not talking about Galch being ready to go back to C when needed) |
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 18, 2015 5:09:54 GMT -5
I'm looking for a reference to confirm it but I guess Bergevin, Dudley and Carriere are all at the Pathers/Leafs game tonight ... Cheers. There's a decent convo on Habs/Leafs trade talks on Prime Time Sports, Feb.16th edition, first 10 minutes or so of 3 hour. Worth listening to |
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Post by blny on Feb 18, 2015 7:00:09 GMT -5
I think Eller fills the role of third line center well. It's whether he can be more than that is the debate. My only contention is that he's never been given a real shot at more. When you're best line mate was Bourque ...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 18, 2015 7:06:04 GMT -5
I'm looking for a reference to confirm it but I guess Bergevin, Dudley and Carriere are all at the Pathers/Leafs game tonight ... Cheers. There's a decent convo on Habs/Leafs trade talks on Prime Time Sports, Feb.16th edition, first 10 minutes or so of 3 hour. Worth listening to Thanks gnick99 ... I just listened to it and it echos what Bergevin said he wanted to do when he first took over the job ... he wants to make the club competitive for the long haul ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Feb 18, 2015 7:10:30 GMT -5
There's a decent convo on Habs/Leafs trade talks on Prime Time Sports, Feb.16th edition, first 10 minutes or so of 3 hour. Worth listening to Thanks gnick99 ... I just listened to it and it echos what Bergevin said he wanted to do when he first took over the job ... he wants to make the club competitive for the long haul ... Cheers. I think it can be argued we're there now. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 18, 2015 8:51:26 GMT -5
I'm looking for a reference to confirm it but I guess Bergevin, Dudley and Carriere are all at the Pathers/Leafs game tonight ... Cheers. GM, AGM, special advisor to GM, two scouts, and their legal/capologist in Sedgwick. Berg took in a Marlies game recently as well. Have to think he's got his eye on a roster player and a prospect. Roman Polak and Stephane Robidas are two right-shooting, defensive defenseman, though Robidas' contract is terrible for his age. Daniel Winnik is the "big" name everyone keeps talking about, but I shudder to think of trying to do a trade deadline show where Daniel Winnik is the big prize. Joffrey Lupul was brought up this morning on the Team 690, but he's hurt again, and they wouldn't have been scouting him. He's a decent player, brings offense, but he is never healthy. Like, ever. He's the Benoit Brunet of the new millennium. Kessel is available, but at what price? Not just in assets, but in cap room and locker room impact? Van Riemsdyke? I would love it, but the cost will be high. Panik? Komarov? REIMER?? Should be interesting to see. One thing to keep in mind I suppose, just to be a negative nelly, is that just because they are scouting the game doesn't mean they like what they see. For all we know they went there to look at a player and decided they don't want him at all. |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 18, 2015 9:12:58 GMT -5
Due diligence, IMO.
From what I saw of the game last night, the Leafs scored early….then went back to sleep. They turned it on ONLY in the last 4 minutes…AFTER they pulled Bernier, down 3-1. Kessel scored on a late PP--short-side goal on which Luongo didn't come all the way across to get square. Nice shot….but still.
I doubt it impresses Bergevin when players demonstrate they don't want to get off the Island of Misfit Toys when a slew of Santas are in attendance…
Maybe certain Leafs view the visitors as a bunch of vultures checking out the roadkill.
Funny how being set for life with those big, fat guaranteed contracts decreases motivation in some people.
Oli Jokinen was trying….he wants out of there at the deadline….which is Nonishanahan's intent.
Good luck.
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Post by blny on Feb 18, 2015 9:12:57 GMT -5
IMO, we have our Winnik. His name is Weise.
No interest in Lupul. Aside from the frequent injuries, I think he's their worst defensive forward.
Kessel has the offensive skills we need. There are question marks about the rest. It would require a significant return, and include salary going the other way. They want picks and prospects. We'd have to include PAP and likely Allen. Even then, the risks are there. If the cap ceiling stays the same, we still run risks. It means a reduction of depth taking on an $8 million player. If the cap for some reason drops ... we're over a barrel.
JVR would be a shrewd addition, but may well cost more than Kessel. His contract is as favorable as Pacioretty's. He's not as complete a player, but he's big, mobile and can score.
I'd have to watch Panik more. Some have said he'd make us worse. Leafs fans don't want to part with Komarov. IMO, he's strictly a 3rd line player, and we have plenty of those. He is a physical player and agitator though. Can't see it being Reimer. He'd be a good back up to Price, but he's too expensive for a back up.
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