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Subban
May 26, 2017 15:10:25 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2017 15:10:25 GMT -5
... too bad the Hole Brothers found it offensive ...
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Subban
May 26, 2017 15:45:39 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 26, 2017 15:45:39 GMT -5
I think the more telling aspect is not the money that he's pledged, it's the time he takes to spend with those kids and other people. He's extremely generous with his time and his comments have consistently shown me that he is a well rounded person with very good values. He's a good citizen and that's the highest compliment I can pay to someone. I agree giving of his time is the important thing. PK does have good values, His detractors would argue its that a camera has to be present though. I'd like to clarify one thing though. PK did not give the hospital $10 million, nor did he pledge $10 million. PK agreed to fundraise $10 million. To date the fund has reach just over one million. As I said when this story broke. Saku Koivu raised more money for Montreal hospitals, and Max Pacioretty raised more money for Montreal hospital, with less fanfare. It's great that PK is doing it, but it seems this always gets pointed out, as if he is the only one. His philanthropy is a great thing, but it should never come into play in whether to trade him or not.
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Subban
May 26, 2017 17:22:10 GMT -5
Post by folatre on May 26, 2017 17:22:10 GMT -5
I agree, Boston. Bergevin is already established a significant track record of emotional, feeling driven decision making. For me this is scary considering the number of important decisions with long term impact that await this summer.
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Subban
May 26, 2017 17:53:41 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on May 26, 2017 17:53:41 GMT -5
I think the more telling aspect is not the money that he's pledged, it's the time he takes to spend with those kids and other people. He's extremely generous with his time and his comments have consistently shown me that he is a well rounded person with very good values. He's a good citizen and that's the highest compliment I can pay to someone. I agree giving of his time is the important thing. PK does have good values, His detractors would argue its that a camera has to be present though. I'd like to clarify one thing though. PK did not give the hospital $10 million, nor did he pledge $10 million. PK agreed to fundraise $10 million. To date the fund has reach just over one million. As I said when this story broke. Saku Koivu raised more money for Montreal hospitals, and Max Pacioretty raised more money for Montreal hospital, with less fanfare. It's great that PK is doing it, but it seems this always gets pointed out, as if he is the only one. His philanthropy is a great thing, but it should never come into play in whether to trade him or not. That's why I tried to stay away from the money part, Skilly. And to be fair, if you don't publicize you're trying to raise money, no one's going to donate. It would be like selling a car that runs on fusion and then not telling anyone about it. But the one thing that every hockey player has, in limited amounts, like all of us, is time. When one player is consistently philanthropic with his time, it's something to celebrate. I've heard a fair number of stories about PK spending his time and there isn't always a photo involved. I think that part comes from guys who constantly look for ways to discredit him. IMO, he's the best defenseman on the Preds, but man are there ever a lot of arguments out there disputing that and in some cases, placing him 4th on the team. HNIC (I think it was Hrudey), calls him a second pairing dman. Funny, in the last 2 games vs the Ducks, Subban and Ekholm had quite a few more minutes than Josi/Ellis (who are excellent players in their own right). Preds have 4 excellent dmen with different strengths. Can't HNIC simply celebrate that?
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Subban
May 26, 2017 23:01:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Willie Dog on May 26, 2017 23:01:47 GMT -5
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Subban
May 26, 2017 23:05:28 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on May 26, 2017 23:05:28 GMT -5
I love the 'flip'.
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Subban
May 28, 2017 16:43:21 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 28, 2017 16:43:21 GMT -5
... this was a problem in Montreal ...
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Subban
May 28, 2017 17:23:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Willie Dog on May 28, 2017 17:23:45 GMT -5
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Subban
May 28, 2017 18:40:45 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 28, 2017 18:40:45 GMT -5
... this was a problem in Montreal ...
I'm sick of the whole PK vs Shea schtik ... Moreso because Nashville clearly won the trade. But I'd like to comment on your "this was a problem in Montreal" comment. No, I disagree somewhat. When a team is winning, that kind of stuff is easier to take, and we saw it in Montreal during the happy times as well. The problem was, (pure conjecture from reading the mountain of comments from team mates and media and opponents) that PK could never turn that part of him off in Montreal , even during the bad times ... It's real hard to take when you are losing. And I guess that's why MB and some teammates thought that PK didn't care if he won or lost. Now I'm not saying I agree with that sentiment, but I'd like to see him do that in Nashville during a season where they miss the playoffs and see if Mike Fisher still laughs
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Subban
May 28, 2017 18:42:33 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 28, 2017 18:42:33 GMT -5
I've lost a lot of respect for John Scott with that comment ... PK's play on the ice is to win, it's one of his best qualities. To say he is garbage, reflects more on John Scott IMO
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Subban
May 28, 2017 19:05:11 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 28, 2017 19:05:11 GMT -5
... this was a problem in Montreal ...
I'm sick of the whole PK vs Shea schtik ... Moreso because Nashville clearly won the trade. It's more about the PK Subban vs Mark Bergevin shtick now ... not with everyone, granted, but at least with the folks I've talked to, anyway ... I think that would apply to any player playing on any team with a losing season ... the fact is Subban and Mike Fisher are both in the Stanley Cup final ... anything 'that could have/might have been' is moot ... just four more games to win ... mind you they'll probably not be smiling if they lose and that would pertain to any player/any team, as well ... Cheers.
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Subban
May 28, 2017 19:11:23 GMT -5
Post by jkr on May 28, 2017 19:11:23 GMT -5
Scott is a joke of a player , always has been. If he wants to see a garbage player he just needs to look in the mirror.
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Subban
May 28, 2017 19:34:09 GMT -5
Post by blny on May 28, 2017 19:34:09 GMT -5
Scott is a joke of a player , always has been. If he wants to see a garbage player he just needs to look in the mirror. Nothing like waiting a year after announcing retirement. Book sales must be slow ... a$$hat.
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Subban
May 28, 2017 21:50:51 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 28, 2017 21:50:51 GMT -5
I think that would apply to any player playing on any team with a losing season .... Exactly, when you are losing you should be all business ...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Subban
May 28, 2017 23:01:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 23:01:04 GMT -5
First of all, why is John Scott being interviewed about PK Subban? Second of all, why is Sportsnet publishing it?
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Subban
May 29, 2017 0:42:46 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on May 29, 2017 0:42:46 GMT -5
John Scott calls him a piece of garbage When did John Scott play with PK in order to make that assessment? He was called up for one game with the Habs. That's hardly long enough to judge a person's character. I like Scott, but he doesn't have a basis for that comment. Is he listening to certain people such as Mike Richards?
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Subban
May 29, 2017 0:47:08 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on May 29, 2017 0:47:08 GMT -5
First of all, why is John Scott being interviewed about PK Subban? Second of all, why is Sportsnet publishing it? It was part of an E:60 thing on PK. I gather that the bulk of the interview is quite favourable, but they obviously tried to 'balance' the coverage and Sportsnet chooses to print the one negative aspect of the interview. For interest's sake, there was another comment by PK about the trade. He said he still couldn't understand it and frankly, he doesn't care any more. Interviewed on radio, the guy interviewing PK (can't recall his name) said he didn't believe that comment. He felt quite sure that PK cares about it, but is saying the 'right' things. I suspect he has great incentive to win the Cup this year.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 6:08:34 GMT -5
Post by The Habitual Fan on May 29, 2017 6:08:34 GMT -5
PK vs Shea - PK is in the finals so Preds won the trade outright PK vs MB - MB is an idiot only worried about his ego PK vs Scott - Scott called him garbage so Scott is a joke.
It all gets very tiring and a complete waste of time. I don't read the Columbus Jackets boards but I don't think anyone would be referring to in negative terms Seth Jones in the same manner because he was traded from Nashville and in my opinion Johanson is a bigger value to their team then Subban. I get many people loved PK and the media creating stories and hanging on his every word is good for business but in the end if PK plays well and wins the cup good for him, good for the Preds but it is a team game and one player does not make the team. I think that is what is being missed and what the trade was all about in the first place. Subban is the ringmaster for his own circus and although he likes to say all the right things he does nothing to deflect any of the media from quoting him or losing any air time. That is PK the brand and marketing plan.
PK the hockey player is talented and skilled but not a God or the reason why Nashville is in the finals. Rinne, Josi, Ellis, Johanson (until injured) were all more valuable in the playoff run than Subban. PK is an important part of a very good machine at the moment. In Nashville PK is part of the puzzle and in Montreal he wanted to be the whole puzzle.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 7:01:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Willie Dog on May 29, 2017 7:01:53 GMT -5
PK the hockey player is talented and skilled but not a God or the reason why Nashville is in the finals. Rinne, Josi, Ellis, Johanson (until injured) were all more valuable in the playoff run than Subban. PK is an important part of a very good machine at the moment. In Nashville PK is part of the puzzle and in Montreal he wanted to be the whole puzzle. I would say Rinne has been more valuable... and the rest are at the same level... look at the numbers from the top players from the Preds opponents... they were very much held off the scoresheet because of the team D of which PK was a big part of along with his partner Ekholm... who is also very good. Preds have the best D in the NHL.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 8:26:49 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 29, 2017 8:26:49 GMT -5
PK vs Shea - PK is in the finals so Preds won the trade outright PK vs MB - MB is an idiot only worried about his ego PK vs Scott - Scott called him garbage so Scott is a joke. It all gets very tiring and a complete waste of time. I don't read the Columbus Jackets boards but I don't think anyone would be referring to in negative terms Seth Jones in the same manner because he was traded from Nashville and in my opinion Johanson is a bigger value to their team then Subban. I get many people loved PK and the media creating stories and hanging on his every word is good for business but in the end if PK plays well and wins the cup good for him, good for the Preds but it is a team game and one player does not make the team. I think that is what is being missed and what the trade was all about in the first place. Subban is the ringmaster for his own circus and although he likes to say all the right things he does nothing to deflect any of the media from quoting him or losing any air time. That is PK the brand and marketing plan. PK the hockey player is talented and skilled but not a God or the reason why Nashville is in the finals. Rinne, Josi, Ellis, Johanson (until injured) were all more valuable in the playoff run than Subban. PK is an important part of a very good machine at the moment. In Nashville PK is part of the puzzle and in Montreal he wanted to be the whole puzzle. PK Subban was expected to be le Club's best d-man every game ... in Nashville there is no such pressure ... Subban is part of a top-4 on the Predators, any two of which could easily be the starting pair on any blue line in the NHL ... he went from an abusive environment to a team that wanted him, and the barbs and criticism followed ... whether he's dancing to the music in the pregame warm up, or if he's on camera for any reason, his detractors will always find something wrong with him and will bring up those flaws whenever they want to make a case against him ... now I'm not saying this about you, HF, but there are people I talk to right here at work; hockey fans who loath anything related to Subban and I get the impression that it has little to do with hockey ... again, don't think this pertains to you, buds, but when I hear stuff like this I'll find an excuse to walk away ... like someone already said, most folks like what Subban does outside the rink, they just don't like seeing it in their faces ... Subban wasn't the only athlete to flaunt-it-if-you-got-it, and while they had a list of faults on him, that's what possibly irked the ultra-traditional Montreal organization about him the most ... in that context it really didn't matter what Subban did in Montreal; he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't ... now that the decisions are made, it really doesn't matter how many mistakes he made avec le Club ... he's playing for the Cup with his new club, while the team he 'brought down' in Montreal is watching him play from their chesterfields ... karma's a bitch ... Cheers.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 8:44:07 GMT -5
Post by The Habitual Fan on May 29, 2017 8:44:07 GMT -5
PK the hockey player is talented and skilled but not a God or the reason why Nashville is in the finals. Rinne, Josi, Ellis, Johanson (until injured) were all more valuable in the playoff run than Subban. PK is an important part of a very good machine at the moment. In Nashville PK is part of the puzzle and in Montreal he wanted to be the whole puzzle. I would say Rinne has been more valuable... and the rest are at the same level... look at the numbers from the top players from the Preds opponents... they were very much held off the scoresheet because of the team D of which PK was a big part of along with his partner Ekholm... who is also very good. Preds have the best D in the NHL. So one player is more valuable and the others are at the same level. It is a matter of personal opinion and others will say PK is above some of the others but the point is as you say PK is part of the best defense in the NHL which I don't think many would argue. That is a job well done by Nashville but at the same time it shouldn't be a negative or a failure for Montreal. (I know you didn't say that but many opinions in general) I have read MB made a mistake by trading PK when he should have built around him but instead he chose to build around Price. I'm sure there are options where he could have done both but when you take emotion out of the conversation for PK having a core of Price, Weber and Patches all in their prime is a pretty solid base for any contending team. A different argument can be made that MB didn't do enough to address top six talent or stuck by a bad coach too long and I would likely agree with both of those. However PK on the Habs could either be great or goat sometimes on the same night. If you want a defenseman that was going to be calm, tough, dependable and able to give Price more protection nightly while still contributing offense then PK is not your guy and that is not meant as a knock on him in any way. If Markov was 27 years old and healthy then I would suggest Weber was not needed but that is not the case either. Simply put PK is a better fit on Nashville then he was in Montreal because of their depth on defense and Weber is a bigger need in Montreal then he was in Nashville because of their lack of depth.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 10:01:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Willie Dog on May 29, 2017 10:01:08 GMT -5
I would say Rinne has been more valuable... and the rest are at the same level... look at the numbers from the top players from the Preds opponents... they were very much held off the scoresheet because of the team D of which PK was a big part of along with his partner Ekholm... who is also very good. Preds have the best D in the NHL. So one player is more valuable and the others are at the same level. It is a matter of personal opinion and others will say PK is above some of the others but the point is as you say PK is part of the best defense in the NHL which I don't think many would argue. That is a job well done by Nashville but at the same time it shouldn't be a negative or a failure for Montreal. (I know you didn't say that but many opinions in general) I have read MB made a mistake by trading PK when he should have built around him but instead he chose to build around Price. I'm sure there are options where he could have done both but when you take emotion out of the conversation for PK having a core of Price, Weber and Patches all in their prime is a pretty solid base for any contending team. A different argument can be made that MB didn't do enough to address top six talent or stuck by a bad coach too long and I would likely agree with both of those. However PK on the Habs could either be great or goat sometimes on the same night. If you want a defenseman that was going to be calm, tough, dependable and able to give Price more protection nightly while still contributing offense then PK is not your guy and that is not meant as a knock on him in any way. If Markov was 27 years old and healthy then I would suggest Weber was not needed but that is not the case either. Simply put PK is a better fit on Nashville then he was in Montreal because of their depth on defense and Weber is a bigger need in Montreal then he was in Nashville because of their lack of depth. Both PK and Weber lost... neither wanted to leave their teams... it was forced on them and they both did everything they could to help their team... PK was on a better team and that's why he's in the finals and Weber isn't.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 19:02:47 GMT -5
Post by CentreHice on May 29, 2017 19:02:47 GMT -5
Bergevin made a personal trade, and Poile made an asset-management trade.
End of story, IMO.
There's a huge contingent of people who'd like nothing better than to see Subban fail...and many of them are talking hockey heads. THAT'S why his "personality" is still a story. Likely always has been. CO could speak to that from PK's days in Belleville.
Subban loves the game, he loves to play in the big spotlight, he loves to celebrate, and he likes to make the most of his celebrity status.
Critcism has a lot to do with old-school hockey culture, IMO.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 20:06:55 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 29, 2017 20:06:55 GMT -5
John Scott calls him a piece of garbage When did John Scott play with PK in order to make that assessment? He was called up for one game with the Habs. That's hardly long enough to judge a person's character. I like Scott, but he doesn't have a basis for that comment. Is he listening to certain people such as Mike Richards? They were on the same All Star team too
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Subban
May 29, 2017 20:21:58 GMT -5
Post by Skilly on May 29, 2017 20:21:58 GMT -5
Trading PK was not a mistake. Acquiring Weber was.
It's been a long time since Montreal won a trade. Now I know this isn't as bad as the Roy trade but there are some parallels that I hate about Montreal management.
When Roy told Ron Corey that he played his last game as a Hab, what the hell was the rush in trading him. Let him sit until you got the trade you want.
The same thing with the PK trade. Bergevin publicly told the entire league he wasn't trading Subban. Then it leaked that Bergevin was unhappy about the contract. Poile asks him if he is trading him, and he still says no. Poile asks him if he'd be interested in Weber. And boom he is traded. What was the rush? Yes they had to meet the July 1st date for the no trade clause, but they had 5 days. Put out a call to the GMs and field offers from them ... Maybe you can get TWO pieces, one a center. It was stupidity to trade PK and not get back a top line forward.
Even Poile recognized it was going to take a great young d-man to get a first line center.
If you turn back time and MB tells Poile he wants Johansen or Forsberg for PK ... You think he does it? No way.
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Subban
May 29, 2017 20:28:48 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 29, 2017 20:28:48 GMT -5
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Subban
May 29, 2017 20:30:55 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 29, 2017 20:30:55 GMT -5
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Subban
May 31, 2017 10:52:34 GMT -5
Post by Willie Dog on May 31, 2017 10:52:34 GMT -5
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Subban
Jun 4, 2017 10:33:43 GMT -5
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 4, 2017 10:33:43 GMT -5
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Subban
Jun 4, 2017 13:07:36 GMT -5
Post by CentreHice on Jun 4, 2017 13:07:36 GMT -5
Credit to Subban in how he's handled the Montreal schmozzle and the continuing reluctance of the pundits to sing his praises. They're just waiting for him to screw up, so they can erase all the excellence and resume their derogatory narrative. Meanwhile, other players make errors with no criticism at all. PK just keeps rising above it. Too bad he doesn't hate to lose. That statement has to be the most ridiculous thing Bergevin has said to date. Other than asserting that Therrien knew nothing about the trade. Playing the fans for fools....never a good idea.
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