Subban

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Oct 27, 2016 13:33:04 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

If that's the case, it means that Therrien is open to ideas...and that would be a really good thing, IMO.

Wouldn't be useful bringing in an associate coach otherwise, IMO ...

Cheers.

[The Habitual Fan]

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

[jkr]

I think 6 games is far to early to pass judgement on any trade.

[CentreHice]

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

So...this has been Therrien's system all along and Subban was THE ONE fouling it up? I'd like to see a video compilation of those examples.

And how does that reasoning explain what happened last year during our 19-4-3 start? Did we do that well DESPITE Subban? How about the year before when we reached 110 pts.?

Why did it take 4 years to get rid of him? Why not after his Norris win? Or after the 3rd year of leading us in assits...and once again in playoff scoring? Imagine who we could've got in return.

My bandwagon: Therrien simply didn't like Subban...at all...and it wasn't because of anything on the ice. A couple of big mistakes in the midst of a horrible, Priceless season....scapegoat time.

Why did Bergevin feel the need to lie about Therrien's knowledge of/involvement in the trade?


Thankfully, Weber's name came up at the 11th hour.

[Bones]

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

This is exactly how PK was messing with the system, even when he successfully skated it out everyone was just standing still waiting and watching what PK was going to do with the puck. It negated all speed through the neutral zone, and more times than not ended with him dumping the puck in, or him skating around the offensive zone doing all his wonderful spinorama's just to put the puck in the corner and go for a line change. We couldn't even play the chip and chase properly because there was no speed built up to forcheck.

Yes PK scored a lot of points for the habs, had great possession numbers, was the generator of most of our offence, but it was only because he constantly had the puck. But he was bad for the system, he bought in early last season, when we went off on that great start last year, he was even putting up career numbers, I dunno why he reverted to going back to playing a more selfish game. I think PK's ego needs himself to be the man in the spotlight at all times, but that's just my opinion.

[CentreHice]

Oct 27, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -5 Bones said:

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

This is exactly how PK was messing with the system, even when he successfully skated it out everyone was just standing still waiting and watching what PK was going to do with the puck. It negated all speed through the neutral zone, and more times than not ended with him dumping the puck in, or him skating around the offensive zone doing all his wonderful spinorama's just to put the puck in the corner and go for a line change. We couldn't even play the chip and chase properly because there was no speed built up to forcheck.

Yes PK scored a lot of points for the habs, had great possession numbers, was the generator of most of our offence, but it was only because he constantly had the puck. But he was bad for the system, he bought in early last season, when we went off on that great start last year, he was even putting up career numbers, I dunno why he reverted to going back to playing a more selfish game. I think PK's ego needs himself to be the man in the spotlight at all times, but that's just my opinion.

Geez, if only Subban had played the system, we'd have had another Stanley Cup...maybe two!

[Bones]

Oct 27, 2016 16:08:16 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

So...this has been Therrien's system all along and Subban was THE ONE fouling it up? I'd like to see a video compilation of those examples.

And how does that reasoning explain what happened last year during our 19-4-3 start? Did we do that well DESPITE Subban? How about the year before when we reached 110 pts.?

Why did it take 4 years to get rid of him? Why not after his Norris win? Or after the 3rd year of leading us in assits...and once again in playoff scoring? Imagine who we could've got in return.

My bandwagon: Therrien simply didn't like Subban...at all...and it wasn't because of anything on the ice. A couple of big mistakes in the midst of a horrible, Priceless season....scapegoat time.

Why did Bergevin feel the need to lie about Therrien's knowledge of/involvement in the trade?


Thankfully, Weber's name came up at the 11th hour.

Why do you need a video compilation of this? Did you not watch the games last year? This happened continuously.

[Bones]

Oct 27, 2016 16:21:38 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Oct 27, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -5 Bones said:

This is exactly how PK was messing with the system, even when he successfully skated it out everyone was just standing still waiting and watching what PK was going to do with the puck. It negated all speed through the neutral zone, and more times than not ended with him dumping the puck in, or him skating around the offensive zone doing all his wonderful spinorama's just to put the puck in the corner and go for a line change. We couldn't even play the chip and chase properly because there was no speed built up to forcheck.

Yes PK scored a lot of points for the habs, had great possession numbers, was the generator of most of our offence, but it was only because he constantly had the puck. But he was bad for the system, he bought in early last season, when we went off on that great start last year, he was even putting up career numbers, I dunno why he reverted to going back to playing a more selfish game. I think PK's ego needs himself to be the man in the spotlight at all times, but that's just my opinion.

Geez, if only Subban had played the system, we'd have had another Stanley Cup...maybe two!

Who the hell said that? Only saying he didn't fit the teams direction, it's hard to all row in the same direction when your most talented and highest paid player wants to do things his way instead. Yes he had his moments, because that's how talented he really is, but on the whole the team is better off without him if he isn't going to buy into the team concept. No one is saying we would have won a cup by now if he did, only that we would have been better off if he had.

[CentreHice]

We see what we want to see, Bones. Confirmation-bias.

I wonder who was responsible for fouling up Therrien's great system in Pittsburgh...maybe it was one of the several superstars who liked carrying the puck....

I guess they really listened after Bylsma took over with the same great message....

Just being sarcastic....but...

I'm a little steamed at the Subban Scapegoat Scenario. Too easy.

[CentreHice]

Oct 27, 2016 16:26:00 GMT -5 Bones said:

Oct 27, 2016 16:21:38 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Geez, if only Subban had played the system, we'd have had another Stanley Cup...maybe two!

Who the hell said that? Only saying he didn't fit the teams direction, it's hard to all row in the same direction when your most talented and highest paid player wants to do things his way instead. Yes he had his moments, because that's how talented he really is, but on the whole the team is better off without him if he isn't going to buy into the team concept. No one is saying without him we would have won a cup by now.

Sarcasm, Bones.

When one player is singled-out....in the face of Plekanec dogging it in usual fashion....Pacioretty seemingly disinterested....Price injured for the majority....Gallagher injured....Petry injured.....

I'm more along the line of thinking: If only everybody rose to the occasion and JOINED Subban.


Hey...if the Predators turn on him, I'll eat a plate of crow right in front of MT and MB!

[Bones]

Oct 27, 2016 16:31:31 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Oct 27, 2016 16:26:00 GMT -5 Bones said:

Who the hell said that? Only saying he didn't fit the teams direction, it's hard to all row in the same direction when your most talented and highest paid player wants to do things his way instead. Yes he had his moments, because that's how talented he really is, but on the whole the team is better off without him if he isn't going to buy into the team concept. No one is saying without him we would have won a cup by now.

Sarcasm, Bones.

When one player is singled-out....in the face of Plekanec dogging it in usual fashion....Pacioretty seemingly disinterested....Price injured for the majority....Gallagher injured....Petry injured.....

I'm more along the line of thinking: If only everybody rose to the occasion and JOINED Subban.


Hey...if the Predators turn on him, I'll eat a plate of crow right in front of MT and MB!

The only reason he's being "singled out" is because the topic is about PK, and why he's no longer here. No one here is blaming last years disaster and placing it at the feet of PK that I can see.

[CentreHice]

And the on-ice performance reasons given are complete hogwash, IMO.

Sometimes personalities are too conflicting to co-exist.


If this move really does end up benefiting this edition, then I'll be just as happy as any Habs' fan.

[The Habitual Fan]

Oct 27, 2016 16:08:16 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

So...this has been Therrien's system all along and Subban was THE ONE fouling it up? I'd like to see a video compilation of those examples.

And how does that reasoning explain what happened last year during our 19-4-3 start? Did we do that well DESPITE Subban? How about the year before when we reached 110 pts.?

Why did it take 4 years to get rid of him? Why not after his Norris win? Or after the 3rd year of leading us in assits...and once again in playoff scoring? Imagine who we could've got in return.

My bandwagon: Therrien simply didn't like Subban...at all...and it wasn't because of anything on the ice. A couple of big mistakes in the midst of a horrible, Priceless season....scapegoat time.

Why did Bergevin feel the need to lie about Therrien's knowledge of/involvement in the trade?


Thankfully, Weber's name came up at the 11th hour.

I never said he was The One that was fouling up the system but in a great many games he clearly was not following it.

And how does that reasoning explain what happened last year during our 19-4-3 start? - The team was all healthy and did play a sound system, obviously Price was a big part of that but Condon also started well last year in his selected starts.

Did we do that well DESPITE Subban? - Yes because many mistakes did not cause total breakdowns because of a better depth up front and on defense and Price in goal.

How about the year before when we reached 110 pts.? - The same year that Price won all the hardware available and Patches scoring 30 goals, Gallagher matured into a top player and Pleks had 20 goals.

Why did it take 4 years to get rid of him? Why not after his Norris win? Or after the 3rd year of leading us in assits...and once again in playoff scoring? Imagine who we could've got in return. -I saw who we got in return and it has been pretty impressive. I really found it was the past two years when PK seemed to start making more mental mistakes. His first few years in the league he was much more effective moving the puck and using his teammates. Maybe it coincided with the major contract that he felt he had to be The One, and take on too much.

My bandwagon: Therrien simply didn't like Subban...at all...and it wasn't because of anything on the ice. - I could care less about anything off the ice and the PK brand, I don't dislike Subban at all but as a fan I only care about what he does on the ice and in my opinion he is a gifted player that was becoming more of a liability. I would think as a coach making a very good salary to win games Therrien's first concern is what PK brings on the ice. If an NHL coach could sign an axe murderer that was a perennial Norris trophy candidate they would and play him 25 minutes a night.

A couple of big mistakes in the midst of a horrible, Priceless season....scapegoat time.- I have never blamed Subban for the whole season and I think those that do are wrong. The loss of Price and Gallagher were huge, the loss of Petry and I think he played hurt most of the year didn't help. Overplaying DD and Markov took its toll because of the constant call ups from the AHL that were not NHL ready. These were all factors in the collapse last year.

Why did Bergevin feel the need to lie about Therrien's knowledge of/involvement in the trade? - Trying to save his butt, trying to save his own butt, trying to throw fuel on an already burning fire? Who knows and it doesn't matter in the end it was the GM's choice with the owners approval.

I'd like to see a video compilation of those examples. - You don't have to go far, just watch the highlights from last night Predator/Duck game. First PK makes a bad decision to try and take the body in the neutral zone that lead to a 2 on 1 the other way that resulted in a goal. Second he made a bad decision to leave his position on a penalty kill allowing a man to get open in front of the net to score. Poor choices from a 27 year old superstar that cost his team.

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/gotta-see-it-subbans-failed-spin-move-gives-jets-easy-goal/

[CentreHice]

Great responses, guys! Appreciate it.

[Forum Ghost]

Ironically, the two teams that took the most heat for their blockbuster trades from this past summer - Montreal and Edmonton - are the top two teams in the league as of this morning.

Also ironic is the fact that Mike Fisher, new captain of the Preds, said that his team is too easy to play against and is not physical enough.

www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1139124

[frozone]

Oct 27, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -5 Bones said:

Oct 27, 2016 15:13:07 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Do I feeel the bandwagon starting to shift?
One of the irritating things in watching Subban the last couple of years was that the forwards were coming back and he was still skating the puck out. Many an opportunity was lost because the forwards were then caught in the neutral zone not skating so they are not too far ahead of the play or stopping at the opposing blue line to avoid offsides. I think this system has shown much better control when the forwards are the ones carrying the play

This is exactly how PK was messing with the system, even when he successfully skated it out everyone was just standing still waiting and watching what PK was going to do with the puck. It negated all speed through the neutral zone, and more times than not ended with him dumping the puck in, or him skating around the offensive zone doing all his wonderful spinorama's just to put the puck in the corner and go for a line change. We couldn't even play the chip and chase properly because there was no speed built up to forcheck.

Yes PK scored a lot of points for the habs, had great possession numbers, was the generator of most of our offence, but it was only because he constantly had the puck. But he was bad for the system, he bought in early last season, when we went off on that great start last year, he was even putting up career numbers, I dunno why he reverted to going back to playing a more selfish game. I think PK's ego needs himself to be the man in the spotlight at all times, but that's just my opinion.

You're definitely right that PK screwed up the timing of zone entries for the forwards, but this could have easily been corrected. A system should have the flexibility to accomodate a star defenseman's puck rushing skills. Also, Subban skating the puck out would almost always result in getting the puck out of the zone. This is something that a coach should embrace, but we all know that MT has his rigid structure that doesn't really allow for those methods of puck movement.

As for his spinoramas, they were just attempts to make something happen. Yes, the turnovers looked bad, but they didn't happen often. Really, Subban's jukes and shakes never had high probability to generate a goal. But think about how many passes are made that don't generate a goal. You know, those passes that are made to try and get the defenders moving and hopefully create an opening or a gap. Well that's akin to Subban's dipsy doodles - just attempts to make something happen. And every now and then, it paid off.

Really, the question comes down to: Should the talented players completely conform to the coach's system, or should the coach recognize a player's talents and create a system and culture which properly utilizes those talents. Above all, I'm just disappointed that management believes in the former rather than the latter.

[Bones]

Oct 28, 2016 14:46:28 GMT -5 frozone said:

Oct 27, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -5 Bones said:

This is exactly how PK was messing with the system, even when he successfully skated it out everyone was just standing still waiting and watching what PK was going to do with the puck. It negated all speed through the neutral zone, and more times than not ended with him dumping the puck in, or him skating around the offensive zone doing all his wonderful spinorama's just to put the puck in the corner and go for a line change. We couldn't even play the chip and chase properly because there was no speed built up to forcheck.

Yes PK scored a lot of points for the habs, had great possession numbers, was the generator of most of our offence, but it was only because he constantly had the puck. But he was bad for the system, he bought in early last season, when we went off on that great start last year, he was even putting up career numbers, I dunno why he reverted to going back to playing a more selfish game. I think PK's ego needs himself to be the man in the spotlight at all times, but that's just my opinion.

You're definitely right that PK screwed up the timing of zone entries for the forwards, but this could have easily been corrected. A system should have the flexibility to accomodate a star defenseman's puck rushing skills. Also, Subban skating the puck out would almost always result in getting the puck out of the zone. This is something that a coach should embrace, but we all know that MT has his rigid structure that doesn't really allow for those methods of puck movement.

As for his spinoramas, they were just attempts to make something happen. Yes, the turnovers looked bad, but they didn't happen often. Really, Subban's jukes and shakes never had high probability to generate a goal. But think about how many passes are made that don't generate a goal. You know, those passes that are made to try and get the defenders moving and hopefully create an opening or a gap. Well that's akin to Subban's dipsy doodles - just attempts to make something happen. And every now and then, it paid off.

Really, the question comes down to: Should the talented players completely conform to the coach's system, or should the coach recognize a player's talents and create a system and culture which properly utilizes those talents. Above all, I'm just disappointed that management believes in the former rather than the latter.

This is exactly what Therrien is doing, the only difference being he chose to create a system and culture built around his best player in Carey Price, and not PK Subban. It's pretty hard to build a system around a guy who plays by the seat of his pants.

This team is built around Carey Price and rightfully so IMO, when you arguably have one of the top 5 players in the entire world nevermind at the most important position on a team it seems like a good place to build a foundation. Weber and Price > Subban and Price if you're building your team around defence and your goaltender. Heck this duo in the anchor for Team Canada, it should be good enough for the habs.

I've been reading Nashville fan forums and see how they're feeling about PK, and I know it's early, but some are already realizing that they miss Weber much more than they thought, and that it's possible the hype on Subban doesn't quite fit the actual reality of him. Here are a few examples...

"I'm willing to give Subban time. It's not fair to evaluate him thus far. But so far I've seen no real speed, no physicality, no skating, no leadership, no nothing much. He looks like I feared; an overrated Montreal superstar. The media up there blows things all out of proportion. Preds don't have 3 or 4 years to "see" if they won the trade.
Of course, I've seen nothing much from anyone else either.
No knock on Fisher but they miss Weber's leadership. Someone needs to step up."

"Physical play, clearing the crease and leadership don't go cold. Maybe goals and assists do. But Weber is better than we ever knew. We concentrated on his offense, forgetting his defensive presence. Betcha Pekka would like to see him in front."

"PK is not good at clearing the front of the net and it has cost us twice so far this season. I am more than a little concerned we are too skilled at D without enough sandpaper mixed in.

Want to see Ekholm/Subban next game. Josi Subban has not looked good thus far."

[seventeen]

I'm sticking by and with PK.

[Skilly]

I'm not sure it's wise to "build your team around defense". Weber is one of the best defensive defensemen in the league, and the reason he has such bad analytics is because he is at his best defending. But that's just it, you can't build your team around defending ... You turn your goalie into a shooting gallery.

When teams talk about building from the goalie out, and you can't have enough defensemen, they usually are talking about transition , puck moving ...

I think it's hogwash that PK Subban takes the blame for others standing around watching him .... The play through the neutral zone died because the forwards didn't support the rush. That's on the forwards, not the guy with the puck. Hockey is about skating, staying in motion, puck support ...

I'm glad we have this version of Shea Weber. But it's not even 10 games in. This reminds me of all those Leafs hot starts a few years ago, parades were planned, blah blah blah .... this team could lose in the first round for all we know. Patience grasshopper before accolades of I told you so's

[Gogie]

	GP	G	A	PTS	PIM	PPG	PPP	+/-	ATOI	HIT	BLK	TK	GV
Weber	8	3	6	9	8	2	3	+12	25:54	22	16	1	10
Subban	7	2	3	5	8	2	4	-6	24:23	9	20	3	10

Legend:
GP - Games Played
G - Goals
A - Assists
PTS - Points
PIM - Penalties in Minutes
PPG - Power Play Goals
PPP - Power Play Points
ATOI - Average Time on Ice
HIT - Hits
BLK - Blocked Shots
TK - Take-aways
GV - Give-aways

UPDATED THROUGH GAMES OF OCTOBER 27

[frozone]

Oct 28, 2016 16:20:34 GMT -5 Bones said:

Oct 28, 2016 14:46:28 GMT -5 frozone said:

You're definitely right that PK screwed up the timing of zone entries for the forwards, but this could have easily been corrected. A system should have the flexibility to accomodate a star defenseman's puck rushing skills. Also, Subban skating the puck out would almost always result in getting the puck out of the zone. This is something that a coach should embrace, but we all know that MT has his rigid structure that doesn't really allow for those methods of puck movement.

As for his spinoramas, they were just attempts to make something happen. Yes, the turnovers looked bad, but they didn't happen often. Really, Subban's jukes and shakes never had high probability to generate a goal. But think about how many passes are made that don't generate a goal. You know, those passes that are made to try and get the defenders moving and hopefully create an opening or a gap. Well that's akin to Subban's dipsy doodles - just attempts to make something happen. And every now and then, it paid off.

Really, the question comes down to: Should the talented players completely conform to the coach's system, or should the coach recognize a player's talents and create a system and culture which properly utilizes those talents. Above all, I'm just disappointed that management believes in the former rather than the latter.

This is exactly what Therrien is doing, the only difference being he chose to create a system and culture built around his best player in Carey Price, and not PK Subban. It's pretty hard to build a system around a guy who plays by the seat of his pants.

This team is built around Carey Price and rightfully so IMO, when you arguably have one of the top 5 players in the entire world nevermind at the most important position on a team it seems like a good place to build a foundation. Weber and Price > Subban and Price if you're building your team around defence and your goaltender. Heck this duo in the anchor for Team Canada, it should be good enough for the habs.

Yup, and I guess that's where we disagree. Not that I would want an entire system based on one defender's playing style, but it would be nice to have a system that allowed for rushing the puck from the back end. But instead, the message just seemed to be "don't rush the puck".

LA and Chicago are probably 2 of the best examples where coaches have implemented a system which includes a game plan for when their star defender rushes the puck. Detroit also did it with Lidstrom, New Jersey did it back in the Neidermayer days... Heck, if I didn't know better, I would say that such a system is a prerequisite for winning a cup.

It doesn't really matter though I guess. There is no one single way to win cup and you are 100% right that it is a team effort. But come playoff time, you often need someone to step up and lift the team. Subban has been that guy. I can think of a few playoff games that the Habs would not have won if it wasn't for Subban. We'll see come playoff time, but I really hope that other individuals will be able to put the team on their back when it's needed.

[GNick99]

Oct 28, 2016 19:33:40 GMT -5 Gogie said:

	GP	G	A	PTS	PIM	PPG	PPP	+/-	ATOI	HIT	BLK	TK	GV
Weber	8	3	6	9	8	2	3	+12	25:54	22	16	1	10
Subban	7	2	3	5	8	2	4	-6	24:23	9	20	3	10

Legend:
GP - Games Played
G - Goals
A - Assists
PTS - Points
PIM - Penalties in Minutes
PPG - Power Play Goals
PPP - Power Play Points
ATOI - Average Time on Ice
HIT - Hits
BLK - Blocked Shots
TK - Take-aways
GV - Give-aways

UPDATED THROUGH GAMES OF OCTOBER 27

You forgot to mention Nashville 2-5-1, while Habs 8-0-1.

Main reason why I liked the trade so much. As no doubt many of you have noticed. lol. There's no I in team. Subban tried to do too much usually late in games and ended up costing us. Between that and getting caught out of position attempting these devastating hits.

[Skilly]

[Gogie]

Player	GP	G	A	PTS	PIM	PPG	PPP	+/-	ATOI	HIT	BLK	TK	GV
Weber	9	4	6	10	8	3	4	+12	25:59	25	19	1	10
Subban	8	2	3	5	8	2	4	-7	24:15	9	22	4	12

                                                    2016-2017 Season

Team	GP	W	L	OTL	PTS	PTS%	GF	GFPG	GA	GAPG	PP%	PK%
Montreal	9	8	0	1	17	.944	31	3.44	13	1.44	21.88%	88.57%
Nashville	8	2	5	1	5	.313	19	2.38	28	3.50	35.71%	66.67%

                                                   2015-2016 Season

Team	GP	W	L	OTL	PTS	PTS%	GF	GFPG	GA	GAPG	PP%	PK%
Montreal	82	38	38	6	82	.500	216	2.63	233	2.84	16.22%	81.89%
Nashville	82	41	27	14	96	.585	224	2.73	213	2.60	19.69%	81.22%

Legend for Player Stats:
GP - Games Played
G - Goals
A - Assists
PTS - Points
PIM - Penalties in Minutes
PPG - Power Play Goals
PPP - Power Play Points
ATOI - Average Time on Ice
HIT - Hits
BLK - Blocked Shots
TK - Take-aways
GV - Give-aways

UPDATED THROUGH GAMES OF OCTOBER 29

Added team stats as per GNick99's not so subtle request.

[franko]

Oct 30, 2016 7:49:50 GMT -5 Gogie said:

Added team stats as per GNick99's not so subtle request.

man that looks like a lot of set-up work.

as to team stats, where does it end? maybe you need to compare Carey's stats with Rinne's. or strength of opposition. so many variables.

but only one Habs team, that's all that counts imo.

[Gogie]

Oct 30, 2016 8:37:56 GMT -5 franko said:

Oct 30, 2016 7:49:50 GMT -5 Gogie said:

Added team stats as per GNick99's not so subtle request.

man that looks like a lot of set-up work.

as to team stats, where does it end? maybe you need to compare Carey's stats with Rinne's. or strength of opposition. so many variables.

but only one Habs team, that's all that counts imo.

I'm just putting up the stats. You need to be careful how you interpret them. The only real stat that matters is total team points - that's what gets you to the dance.

In my view (and it's just one man's opinion) the interesting team stats to look at (other than points) are the season over season change in goals scored per game and power play %. I obviously haven't tried to control for variables other than Subban and Weber so there's a lot of interaction going on. The most obvious one is the impact of Price on goals against per game.

[habsask]

Interesting take by Lafleur can be found in the Gazette here:

montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/canadiens-legend-guy-lafleur-weighs-in-on-p-k-subban-trade


Personally I agree with Lafleur.

But that's just me.

Cheers

[Skilly]

I think the most valid way to compare, would be PK on Montreal vs Weber on Montreal. Last season, 9-0-0 with PK leading team in points and Carey/Condon dominating. This year 8-0-1 , with Shea leading in points and Carey/Montoya dominating.

Let's see if this team gets off to a 14-2-4 start again and then compare the first 20 games from each season. Hopefully, Carey doesn't get hurt again and we can stop after 20 games

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Oct 30, 2016 12:05:46 GMT -5 habsask said:

Interesting take by Lafleur can be found in the Gazette here:

montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/canadiens-legend-guy-lafleur-weighs-in-on-p-k-subban-trade


Personally I agree with Lafleur.

But that's just me.

Cheers

Good to see you checking in, habsask ... I'm sorry to see him go, but the team is excelling without Subban, for now anyway ... some of Lafleur's comments are similar Carey Price's comments, only Price didn't comment on the dressing room dynamic ... son of a gun ...

Cheers.

[Skilly]

Last season after 9 games

Subban
1G , 9A , 10 pts, +11


Last season after 9 games

Weber
1G, 3A, 4pts, +1


Weber after 23 games last season
6G, 4A, 10pts, -7



Let's not neglect the effect Carey Price can have on those stats