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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 15:12:20 GMT -5
Post by The Habitual Fan on Nov 7, 2017 15:12:20 GMT -5
You stole my thought there CH.
The stats and age between Duchene and Turris are very similar and I don't think the upside is much higher for either player. They are destined to be 55-65 point players for the next 4-5 years before they start going downhill. This is why I think Ottawa gave up a lot for little improvement in return.
Drouin was a 53 point guy playing 73 games mostly as a 2nd line winger in Tampa last year and only 21 years old. His potential and age makes him a much better long term option.
In the summer if Montreal had offered up a 2nd, McCarron and even Juulsen for either Duchene or Turris it likely would have been turned down and laughed at but that may be what their true market value would have been.
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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 16:55:36 GMT -5
Post by folatre on Nov 7, 2017 16:55:36 GMT -5
I agree with the Glass Hab Full. And, moreover, Ottawa is probably paying this cost for approximately 120 games (and ONE and only one playoff run) with Duchene because I see little to no chance he signs there. Dorion really likes Duchene but will Melnyk agree to a $50 million dollar extension because that is the minimum it will take?
It surprises me that most hockey journalists are acting like Sakic won this trade (seven assets is such a huge haul) or maybe Dorion won (Ottawa got the best player in the deal). I do not understand this. Colorado may literally have not received a single asset likely to transform to be a top six forward or top two pairing d-man. And while Ottawa received the best player on the move they do not control this asset for long. I am surprised by what I have been hearing. For me Poile made the shrewdest move because he found a player to fulfill a need and now controls the asset long-term at a fair value.
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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 17:36:05 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on Nov 7, 2017 17:36:05 GMT -5
You stole my thought there CH. The stats and age between Duchene and Turris are very similar and I don't think the upside is much higher for either player. They are destined to be 55-65 point players for the next 4-5 years before they start going downhill. This is why I think Ottawa gave up a lot for little improvement in return. Drouin was a 53 point guy playing 73 games mostly as a 2nd line winger in Tampa last year and only 21 years old. His potential and age makes him a much better long term option. In the summer if Montreal had offered up a 2nd, McCarron and even Juulsen for either Duchene or Turris it likely would have been turned down and laughed at but that may be what their true market value would have been. I've seen some advanced stats comparing Turris and Duchene and Duchene comes out slightly ahead in all 3 zones, which is probably why Dorion is so excited. Truly, though, there probably isn't a significant difference between the two. Duchene is faster and younger, but that was a lot of stuff Dorion gave up for a small boost in performance. I'm just thrilled to see teams pulling off trades at this time of year, and executing some complicated ones. I hope it spurs other GM's on and increases the risk taking factor throughout the league. It may not be great for players and their families, but it's very exciting for fans. I bet all 3 cities are more energized about hockey than they were a week ago. |
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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 17:40:39 GMT -5
Post by seventeen on Nov 7, 2017 17:40:39 GMT -5
For me Poile made the shrewdest move because he found a player to fulfill a need and now controls the asset long-term at a fair value. True to a large extent, though I have read that $6MM for Turris is a bit on the high side for a #2 centre. For me, Poile has done well for the next 3 years for sure. After 30 years of age, how will Turris perform? He won't be 'old', but will the legs still be there? It varies depending on the player. Marleau, for example, can still scoot well at 38. If Turris's legs hold up and he can continue putting up 50-60 points, it will be a good long term as well as short term deal for Nashville. Otherwise, Poile may have a Plekanec on his hands for the last 2 years of the contract. |
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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 18:39:29 GMT -5
Post by franko on Nov 7, 2017 18:39:29 GMT -5
It surprises me that most hockey journalists are acting like Sakic won this trade (seven assets is such a huge haul) or maybe Dorion won (Ottawa got the best player in the deal). I do not understand this. Colorado may literally have not received a single asset likely to transform to be a top six forward or top two pairing d-man. And while Ottawa received the best player on the move they do not control this asset for long. I am surprised by what I have been hearing. For me Poile made the shrewdest move because he found a player to fulfill a need and now controls the asset long-term at a fair value. if Ottawa won it was because they lost a player that was not going to sign with them. |
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Duchene
Nov 7, 2017 21:30:47 GMT -5
Post by folatre on Nov 7, 2017 21:30:47 GMT -5
I think what you say is accurate, seventeen. Nashville paid $36 million for a de facto UFA. In-demand UFAs are always somewhat overpriced. Last summer Andrew Ladd got 7 years at 5.75 M per. He is not a first liner by any stretch of the imagination. Backes got 5 years at $6 M per. Ladd and Backes were a couple of years older than Turris and probably may have more wear and tear on their bodies.
I see what you are saying, Franko. It does not sound as though Turris was planning to give Ottawa a hometown discount, though it is not clear that Dorion really had any genuine interest in resigning him for the money he got in Nashville. The Sens have a pretty nice team (I do not rate Anderson and Condon but they are guys that keep proving people wrong) but I just cannot see how they go deeper than they went last season with Tampa and Pittsburgh having so much high end talent. In some way, it feels like it is wash, rinse, and repeat for Ottawa because they will be facing the exact same situation next year with Duchene having one foot out the door. Dorion probably will want to do something big to keep Duchene but I really wonder if Melnyk would agree to $50-55 million range type deal.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 8, 2017 7:00:45 GMT -5
You mean like trading a young first line center like Drouin to a division rival? The divisional rival argument no longer holds that much water with 8 teams in the division You mean a winger...  and was he even on the first line in Tampa? Drouin might just be a young, converted first line centre. You don't think making Drouin the first line center was Bergevin plan from the start? I sure do. He gave it to him without any audition whatsoever Stevie Y may have traded a second line winger, but he was Montreal's answer to the first line center In any event, my original point is that inter-divisional trades occur, even when it comes to solving the other teams obvious problems. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 8, 2017 8:28:50 GMT -5
You mean a winger... and was he even on the first line in Tampa? Drouin might just be a young, converted first line centre. You don't think making Drouin the first line center was Bergevin plan from the start? I sure do. He gave it to him without any audition whatsoever Stevie Y may have traded a second line winger, but he was Montreal's answer to the first line center In any event, my original point is that inter-divisional trades occur, even when it comes to solving the other teams obvious problems. Agree. I was just making a joke....re: Chucky being drafted as our stud centre....then..well, we know.... Then we get a second-line winger and make him a 1st line centre. |
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Duchene
Nov 8, 2017 23:44:11 GMT -5
Post by PTH on Nov 8, 2017 23:44:11 GMT -5
A 2nd rounder, McCarron and Schlemko would be a fit for what you described IMO. Is that roughly the value that Nashville gave up ? Keeping in mind that they got to negotiate an extension, which is valuable as well. Depending on how much you value Girard and Kamenev, I don't know enough about either ... the Maximum we would give up would be 2nd rounder, Mete, Scherbak Keeping in mind, our second rounder is projected to be a better pick than Nashville's at the time of the trade. Would you do that for Turris? I got to say, I'd have to think long and hard, to not do it. And I believe that is the maximum. Since I believe Scherbak is better than Kamenev, and our second rounder is better, we probably could have gotten away with keeping Mete, but then we would be looking at trading Bourque or Juulsen It's not an overly steep price to pay to address an obvious need. But is there another deal out there like that for a second line center? Well, with Drouin and Danault as tolerable top 2 line centers, I wouldn't want to sell off that much to get an upgrade... I also don't value Turris that much. I also suspect we wouldn't have gotten him to sign at that same salary. |
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Duchene
Nov 11, 2017 19:02:24 GMT -5
Post by franko on Nov 11, 2017 19:02:24 GMT -5
the line on Duschene with the Sens, 2 games in . . . motivated to play against his former team:
0 points, -3, 10 SOG, 16½ minutes on the ice per game
who said he wouldn't fit in with the Habs?
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and was he even on the first line in Tampa?
