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Post by Willie Dog on May 24, 2018 6:11:45 GMT -5
Sin City in 6. They've got the easiest path to the SC final, are rested and that's enough. Fluery V Ovie... should be a great SC final. |
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Post by jkr on May 24, 2018 6:11:48 GMT -5
I think some players have to answer. For instance: according to Sportsnet, Stamkos does not have a point in the six career game sevens he has played & although I didn't watch every minute he only looked, IMO as a threat when on the PP.
I don't think Cooper should go but I guess some teams have higher standards then others.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 24, 2018 7:02:17 GMT -5
Happy for Lars Eller ... hope the Caps can pull it off but it's almost like it's fate for Vegas ... will be happy for Gerard Gallant if the Golden Knights end up winning it all ...
Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on May 24, 2018 9:07:43 GMT -5
The front page has been updated. Bring on the Finals | STANLEY CUP FINAL |  vs  | | | | | | | | | |
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Post by CentreHice on May 24, 2018 10:06:17 GMT -5
Thanks again, Skilly!
If Holtby stays hot and Ovie maintains his intense leadership, we'll have a series.
Should be a fast, tough Final.
If Vegas wins the first two on home ice, I think it'll be over in 5.
If the Caps can split in Vegas, we're in for 6 or 7.
I'll go with Vegas in 5.
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Post by folatre on May 24, 2018 13:04:05 GMT -5
I think some players have to answer. For instance: according to Sportsnet, Stamkos does not have a point in the six career game sevens he has played & although I didn't watch every minute he only looked, IMO as a threat when on the PP. I don't think Cooper should go but I guess some teams have higher standards then others. What you say is true. Stamkos and Kucherov were absolutely lethal on the power play, but Tampa's big line was simply not effective at even strength. Obviously the Capitals deserve a lot of credit for neutralizing them, the top 4 d-men were strong and moving their feet down low, and the forwards almost to a man did a great job patrolling the slot. But still I was surprised how ponderous and predictable Stamkos and Kucherov looked for most of the series. The Lightning have made four deep playoff runs in the Yzerman era and the architecture of the team suggests continued contender status is almost certain for 2018-19, though beyond that some major turnover awaits. However, successful organisations are open to change and I would imagine Yzerman is not operating without a plan. |
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Post by seventeen on May 24, 2018 13:36:14 GMT -5
I'll pick Vegas in 6. That's from my head and believing their speed and transition game is going to overcome Washington's defence. It's also banking on the hockey gods staying consistent as Vegas hasn't had many bad bounces so far.
I'm hoping Ovie, Eller and Trotz win, though. I also don't like the idea of an expansion team winning a cup in their first year. Ya gotta suffer first. It's a rule.
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Post by blny on May 24, 2018 14:21:27 GMT -5
Tough series for the Caps....wonder if Vegas will benefit once again from a somewhat depleted opponent. Bolts win 3 in a row to take the series lead...then get shutout in the final two games. Inexcusable with all that talent, regardless of Holtby. This most likely cost Cooper his job. Ya think? I don't see Cooper going anywhere. He can't score the goals, and last night Tampa let a number of golden opportunities slip by. Stamkos with one shot on goal in a game seven is unacceptable. He was invisible. Kucherov may have exposed his biggest wart these playoffs. He may only be a regular season player. We'll see if he learns from it, but he did a lot of flopping around and was easily knocked off pucks. The compete level simply wasn't there. AFAIC, this team went as far as Point and Vasilevsky could carry them. When the Caps turned up the meanness level, the Bolts had no answer. Hedman lost his cool, and others turtled. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 24, 2018 17:03:32 GMT -5
This most likely cost Cooper his job. Ya think? I don't see Cooper going anywhere. He can't score the goals, and last night Tampa let a number of golden opportunities slip by. Stamkos with one shot on goal in a game seven is unacceptable. He was invisible. Kucherov may have exposed his biggest wart these playoffs. He may only be a regular season player. We'll see if he learns from it, but he did a lot of flopping around and was easily knocked off pucks. The compete level simply wasn't there. AFAIC, this team went as far as Point and Vasilevsky could carry them. When the Caps turned up the meanness level, the Bolts had no answer. Hedman lost his cool, and others turtled. Like you said they went as far as point and Vasilevsky would take them... its up to the coach to get Stamkos and Kucherov to produce... shutout in game 6 and 7 of a conference final with game 7 at home... most GMs would say that is unacceptable... many owners would too. |
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Post by blny on May 24, 2018 18:45:25 GMT -5
Ya think? I don't see Cooper going anywhere. He can't score the goals, and last night Tampa let a number of golden opportunities slip by. Stamkos with one shot on goal in a game seven is unacceptable. He was invisible. Kucherov may have exposed his biggest wart these playoffs. He may only be a regular season player. We'll see if he learns from it, but he did a lot of flopping around and was easily knocked off pucks. The compete level simply wasn't there. AFAIC, this team went as far as Point and Vasilevsky could carry them. When the Caps turned up the meanness level, the Bolts had no answer. Hedman lost his cool, and others turtled. Like you said they went as far as point and Vasilevsky would take them... its up to the coach to get Stamkos and Kucherov to produce... shutout in game 6 and 7 of a conference final with game 7 at home... most GMs would say that is unacceptable... many owners would too. Playing devil's advocate, was it on Therrien to get Pacioretty scoring last year against the Rangers? I think most of us blamed the player. John Cooper's one of the best coaches in the league. If Tampa lets him go, he'll be snapped up faster than Julien was by Bergevin. |
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Post by seventeen on May 24, 2018 19:00:24 GMT -5
I doubt Cooper is going anywhere. Good coaches do get fired, though. Dwane Casey of the Raptors is the prime example. He was fired because he couldn't get his two star players to produce in the playoffs like they do in the regular season. Is that on him? Maybe not the offense part, but DeRozan was awful defensively and that's something he absolutely needs to work on. Casey may not have 'deserved' to be fired (he was voted coach of the year by his peers), but yet another sweep at the hands of Cleveland, without a big enough fight, and he's gone. It could simply be that the message was no longer getting through and that's the main reason good, long term coaches get fired. TRotz in Nashville is another example.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 25, 2018 8:09:20 GMT -5
I doubt Cooper is going anywhere. Good coaches do get fired, though. Dwane Casey of the Raptors is the prime example. He was fired because he couldn't get his two star players to produce in the playoffs like they do in the regular season. Is that on him? Maybe not the offense part, but DeRozan was awful defensively and that's something he absolutely needs to work on. Casey may not have 'deserved' to be fired (he was voted coach of the year by his peers), but yet another sweep at the hands of Cleveland, without a big enough fight, and he's gone. It could simply be that the message was no longer getting through and that's the main reason good, long term coaches get fired. TRotz in Nashville is another example. Tampa is a great team that went cold at the wrong time. Not sure you can put that on the coach. My general view is that managers and coaches build a team to be successful over 82 games, every year. That's the goal of a contender - to be in the mix every year and poised for a deep run. Come playoff time though, it's up to the players and the goalie. Nashville was in position for a deeper run, but Rinne cost them dearly. The Bolts were up 3-2 in the conference finals, but got shutout in the last 2 games. It happens, and smart managers know the difference between a team that is plenty good enough and just didn't get the job done and a team that has fundamental flaws that need to be addressed. There probably isn't a roster out there that I like more than Tampa's - great skill guys, great role players, great depth, plenty of youth. What's not to like? They will be back next year and the year after that. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 25, 2018 9:24:25 GMT -5
Like you said they went as far as point and Vasilevsky would take them... its up to the coach to get Stamkos and Kucherov to produce... shutout in game 6 and 7 of a conference final with game 7 at home... most GMs would say that is unacceptable... many owners would too. Playing devil's advocate, was it on Therrien to get Pacioretty scoring last year against the Rangers? I think most of us blamed the player. John Cooper's one of the best coaches in the league. If Tampa lets him go, he'll be snapped up faster than Julien was by Bergevin. If it's one player, then it's on the player, if it's multiple players then it's on the coach. Based on the fact that TB went scoreless in the last 2 games and the fact that In game 6 Ovie had 4 shots and Kuznetsov had 5 Stamkos had 1 and Kucherov had 1 In game 7 Ovie had 4 shots and Kuznetsov had 4 Stamkos had 2 and Kucherov had 3 As well Point and Palat each had 1 shot on goal |
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Post by blny on May 25, 2018 11:31:43 GMT -5
Playing devil's advocate, was it on Therrien to get Pacioretty scoring last year against the Rangers? I think most of us blamed the player. John Cooper's one of the best coaches in the league. If Tampa lets him go, he'll be snapped up faster than Julien was by Bergevin. If it's one player, then it's on the player, if it's multiple players then it's on the coach. Based on the fact that TB went scoreless in the last 2 games and the fact that In game 6 Ovie had 4 shots and Kuznetsov had 5 Stamkos had 1 and Kucherov had 1 In game 7 Ovie had 4 shots and Kuznetsov had 4 Stamkos had 2 and Kucherov had 3 As well Point and Palat each had 1 shot on goal I'd be laying the blame, if any, at Yzerman's feet. McD was horrible most of the playoffs. They spent a lot for him and Miller. Miller is a UFA, and McD has a year left. The latter looks to be struggling to keep up with the pace of play. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 25, 2018 16:43:12 GMT -5
McDonagh should still be in his prime. What happened to him? Injuries....concussion problems? Peaked early?
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Post by seventeen on May 25, 2018 19:42:16 GMT -5
One has to be very, very careful with defencemen these days. With the increasing speed, a guy you could normally count on as a top pairing d-man is suddenly having difficulties on the 2nd pairing. It doesn't take a lot for the pendulum to move the other way. When you look at Vegas, Theodore, Schmidt, Sbisa and Miller are all excellent skaters. Not sure about Egelland and McNabb, but those first 4 are really quick and get to pucks fast. You saw the reverse with Jordie Benn and Karl Alzner. It looks like he should get to the puck and have the Habs exiting, but the forward beats him to it or gets a better angle and muscles them for the puck. Half a step and that doesn't happen. I thought McDonagh was a decent skater but perhaps in the playoffs, when the tempo is increased, he fell into that category of being half a stride too slow. Or he just had a bad stretch. I didn't see enough of McDonagh to judge.
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Post by folatre on May 25, 2018 20:01:21 GMT -5
I think this point about skating is entirely valid. McDonagh is not a bad skater at all, but he is not an effortless, fast skater. In particular,I do not see his acceleration from a stationary position as a strong suit.
McDonagh does not have a slight frame, but I also have noted over the course of his career that he plays a heavier game than he probably should. It is not only the occasional open ice hit, it is also simply adhering to the ethos that you have to constantly make forwards pay a physical toll along the boards, in the slot, behind the net. McDonagh is not naturally the body type of Scott Stevens, Shea Weber, or Bufyglien. Adhering to the ethos that rivals have to feel the rigour of his physicality means that McDonagh has put quite a bit of hard mileage on his own body.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 27, 2018 21:15:49 GMT -5
Vegas in six.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 28, 2018 21:35:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 22:09:48 GMT -5
Man, did Vegas get away with a lot of slashes. Eller with an open net (a tap-in, really), and his stick gets whacked. No call.
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Post by folatre on May 28, 2018 22:28:03 GMT -5
It is a tough, fast game to see everything in real time. But I think Vegas was the luckier side in this one with respect to the non-calls. In the goal that tied the game 4-4, Reeves cross-checked Carlson in about the most blatant manner possible. I like most of the guys on Vegas, nice fast hard working crew, but it makes neutrals shake their heads when frickin Reeves of all people manages to definitively influence the outcome in such a fashion and neither referee possesses the common sense (professionalism) to make the call there.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 22:42:35 GMT -5
What's baffling to me, folatre, is how refs manage to miss that type of play in front of the net of all places. I can understand hits behind the play going unnoticed, but in front of the net? Where the defenseman is supposed to be? Pretty obvious crosscheck.
Then they had to gather to discuss Wilson's hit on Marchessault (which was a penalty). Yet they didn't want to discuss Reeve's hit on Carlson.
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Post by seventeen on May 28, 2018 23:14:57 GMT -5
Conspiracy? All I can say is Vegas has had very few bad breaks in these playoffs. San Jose could easily have won that series with any kind of luck.
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Post by blny on May 29, 2018 6:21:46 GMT -5
McDonagh should still be in his prime. What happened to him? Injuries....concussion problems? Peaked early? Injuries might be part of it. He's not slow in a straight line, but he's not got the agility you need for the position today. If you're not a good stick checker like Weber, you need to be able to skate with your check. |
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Post by blny on May 29, 2018 6:24:56 GMT -5
Watching the Reeves play last night, he didn't lead with the stick extended imo. He as much attempted to push off Carlson as anything, but he's so strong. You are allowed to push someone with your stick, and imo that's what he did.
The Wilson play is baffling. He's got the IQ of a gnat. The puck was 50 feet away from Marchessault when he blind sided him. The back side ref had a clear view of the play. If he's not going to call that there's no point in the 4th official. Perhaps even more bizarre is that Perron left the bench right around the point the whistle blew and proceeded to nail Ovi from behind twice. He could have easily been tossed for leaving the bench.
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Post by seventeen on May 29, 2018 12:01:27 GMT -5
It's that conservative mindset of the NHL again. They have always let things go in the playoffs ("Let the players decide the game"), without reasoning that if they let lesser talented players get away with restraining more talented players, they are in effect deciding the game, rather than letting the players do so. If a lower talent has to cheat, he should pay the price. Seems logical to me, but not to the NHL. Heck, it happens in basketball too. The game is more physical in the playoffs, so they're at fault as well, though not to the extent the NHL lets things go.
Sometimes, just breathing on Harden is enough to draw a foul.
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Post by blny on May 29, 2018 12:47:13 GMT -5
It's that conservative mindset of the NHL again. They have always let things go in the playoffs ("Let the players decide the game"), without reasoning that if they let lesser talented players get away with restraining more talented players, they are in effect deciding the game, rather than letting the players do so. If a lower talent has to cheat, he should pay the price. Seems logical to me, but not to the NHL. Heck, it happens in basketball too. The game is more physical in the playoffs, so they're at fault as well, though not to the extent the NHL lets things go. Sometimes, just breathing on Harden is enough to draw a foul. Yep. McNabb took an almost sure goal away from Eller, that would have tied it at 5, when he swung his stick like and axe and disrupted Eller's attempt to shoot the puck. There was a time that was considered a slash. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 29, 2018 14:28:55 GMT -5
That Reaves play, IMO, should've been called. It was a 100% crosscheck motion from behind that eliminated the only checker between himself and the net in a primo scoring position.
Vegas is playing great hockey....but "help" like that isn't needed.
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Post by folatre on May 30, 2018 20:50:50 GMT -5
Vegas is losing the plot tonight. I do not know if they are too fired up or just not sure how to react when things do not go their way. It seems like every incident is a reason to bark/cry about something even when the officials made the call (on Orprik against Neal, among others). Reeves has certainly added real value for them in the playoffs but his instincts are precisely why playing a guy like him gives coaches trepidation in the playoffs.
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Post by folatre on May 30, 2018 20:58:30 GMT -5
Wait a second, that Oshie cross check on Miller (significant embellishment) is a penalty. But the Reeves interference/cross check against Carlson was not in game one? Strange, very strange.
And now this one, wow, the criterion for what constitutes a cross check is definitely different on a Wednesday compared to a Monday.
Miller is the king of dives.
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