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Post by habsorbed on Dec 17, 2019 11:36:18 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. It is extraordinary that a gm in any business, particularly hockey, can, after 8 years of ineptitude, say "trust me, the future is ours" and be believed. Give me any job in the world, regardless of my knowledge and experience, and allow me after 8 years of futility to keep my job because I'm telling you the future is bright, and i will conclude you are an incompetent owner with either no spine or vision. Or just happy to be making money regardless of the product being produced.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 17, 2019 11:43:21 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. It is extraordinary that a gm in any business, particularly hockey, can, after 8 years of ineptitude, say "trust me, the future is ours" and be believed. Give me any job in the world, regardless of my knowledge and experience, and allow me after 8 years of futility to keep my job because I'm telling you the future is bright, and i will conclude you are an incompetent owner with either no spine or vision. Or just happy to be making money regardless of the product being produced. I say GM suffers from both and afaik never had to work for what he has, otherwise he wouldn't let anyone mess with it... I used to work for a company that dealt with a lot of small businesses that were started with sweat and hard work of entrepreneurs who busted their humps to become successful only to have the kids not care, take over and run it into the ground... now these businesses were not in the scale of GMs but the mentality might very well be the same.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2019 14:05:08 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. That first paragraph is also contradictory. There is never a single player that can guarantee you make the playoffs. Ask Edmonton. By that logic, you'd not trade for Connor McDavid because doesn't get his team into the playoffs. But to stay stagnant, because of that logic, is why Bergevin is a piss-poor GM. Period. Pointe Finale The second point. He is holding steady to his "draft and develop" path, and its a good thing. Is it really?? How many #3 overall draft picks does it take for everyone to realize that the draft plan is not going to work. Don't anyone give me that "it has to be the right year nonsense" … sure not all #3's are the same talent wise, I get that. But BOTH our #3s were performing at record clips until the Einstein's running this team got involved, and tried to change them. They ruined Galchenyuk forever .. (don't get me started again on his numbers as a center, and on the top 2 lines, they were as impressive as the Habs ever saw in a decade.) But it wasn't good enough. Nope. It wasn't good enough for Galchenyuk to score at close to a point a game, noooo he had to be a good defensively. But only him. Not all the other little buggers skating around with minuses attached to their names. Just Alex. And KK. He was on pace to break a 40+ year old record last year, from the third line. Then they wanted him to start playing defense. Concentrate on that. Never mind an 18 yr old who was drafted as the future center of the first line (that was the hype for bypassing other more safe picks) had 20 points and was +1 (in the first half of the season)… 18 , did I say he was 18 … nope, he had to be a good little soldier too. We don't need you being better than the guys we want on the top line, we didn't put you on this team for you to be that good that fast … nope nope nope … we might have to trade Danault if you do that. So you sit down, play with plugs, get no PP time and let us complain that you aren't developing properly or as we hoped … #howIreallyfeel
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Post by seventeen on Dec 17, 2019 16:15:03 GMT -5
Other GMs have been fired for far less damage or lack of success that Bergevin has delivered. Heck, Geoff Molson hired and fired Pierre Gauthier after about 2 years and Goat actually did a decent job with what he had to work with. I don’t know where the seemingly limitless patience comes from. I feel like he’s too joined at the hip with Berg. Maybe there should be a team president in between like Shanahan or Neely. Either way there needs to be a refresh and a new point of view. Berg has done some decent moves recently with trades and draft picks but I don’t have confidence he can put it all together. I would have made a run at Julien Brisebois in Tampa or even Lou Lamoriello before he went to the Islanders. That and moving on from Julien, but I feel between Ducharme and Bouchard we have some decent options. True, but again, a fence post could have done the same as long as Timmins and Churla were making the picks. I would also think that the inclusion of Suzuki in the Patches deal would have had a lot of input from those two as Nick was still a juniour and given how little Berg knew about Spencer Knight, I suspect he leaves the amateur scouting stuff to that group. That's a good thing, but one shouldn't give Berg too much credit for Suzuki. The Domi deal, to this point, is a clear win for Berg. The Pacioretty deal is not as satisfying as it was last year. Max is putting up some pretty good numbers with Vegas and he looked like a real offensive driver in the games that I've seen him. Thirty four points in 36 games is pretty good. Tatar has almost as much at 29 in 33, but he hasn't looked as impressive to me, not to mention the numerous silly penalties. I think he's benefiting from Danault and Gallagher a lot more than Patches is benefiting from Mark Stone and whoever is their centre. Patches has 4 points more than Stone to date. When Tatar was taken off the Gallagher line, he looked lost. So...one clear win in a trade. The rest of the kudos and admiration are all because of Suzuki, Mete, KK, Fleury, Primeau. And in the background, Caufield, Romanov, Ylonen, Norlinder and various grade B prospects. All scouting. The amazing improvement in Bergevin's performance is as much an illusion as fact.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 17, 2019 16:31:37 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. My first thought when I heard he had maybe not a press conference but a press infomercial, was "What other GM talks to the press collectively about why he DIDN'T get Taylor Hall". Wouldn't a memo have been sufficient? Or does he enjoy the limelight too much? Sheesh, he's worse than PK for wanting attention. And I've been quite critical of this approach. While I concur that it's not the time to get a guy like Hall and that the team should be paitent until these valuable prospects develop fully, what bugs me is that he's too hesitant and chicken to go all in. Weber's transition game and puck handling in his own end is risky and dangerous. He's gotten a lot of points but almost half are secondary ones where he just happened to touch the puck before someone else made a good play. I've noted several of those. One example alone was early in the year, killing a penalty, he passed the puck to Danault or someone in the Habs side of centre, and that guy made a great play and a goal resulted and Weber gets an assist. For making an everyday pass to an open guy at centre ice. I'm concerned that as the season goes on, he'll revert to last year's performance, with declining results in Feb and March. He should have been traded. But Berg values those intangible qualities. The team has Danault and Gallagher for those intangible qualities. Those two are great players and are still young enough to contribute in 3 and 4 years time. Do we want an $8MM cap hit taking up a 3rd pairing spot? The Price cost is yet to come as well. Primeau is giving every indication he can become a #1 keeper and a really good one. Moving Price will be possible despite that NMC, but not at $10.5MM. The team is going to have to eat some of that CAP space. So putting together a winning team, despite some cheap young players is going to be challenging because of a couple of anchor type contracts. And the beat goes on.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 17, 2019 17:03:45 GMT -5
I think missing the playoffs again this year will put lots of pressure on Molson to fire Bergevin.
I'm increasingly feeling like this team needs a team president to oversee the operation, smart enough about hockey, but who doesn't want to be the GM. One of Geoff's problems is he's tied too closely to the operation and Bergevin. There needs to be a layer between ownership and the GM. Or you have a team president type person who speaks French and a Kyle Dubas type to run the hockey operation. Or someone who really understands management and how to build a successful organization.
Either way the Habs need to start thinking more creatively about how this team is managed. Bergevin and Julien are old school guys. I actually like the coaching potential in Ducharme and Bouchard, but the Habs need a much more modern and professional approach to the organization. That doesn't mean buying in totally to the "analytics" school, but it doesn't mean dismissing it either.
It's time for a new voice. Berg would actually be leaving behind some decent pieces and possibly another lottery pick. He's had his chance.
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Post by folatre on Dec 17, 2019 19:12:37 GMT -5
Molson supposedly talks to Bergevin multiple times per week about hockey operations. I agree, he is too involved. And as more seasons with poor results pile up, Molson is actually placing himself in line to take way more flak and criticism from fans than most owners expose themselves to. Molson could help himself and help the club by finding a hockey man with good leadership qualities to design and execute the strategic plan/vision. Of course, the chance of this happening is very remote.
I agree with you, Boston. In any industry, eight years is actually a longish tenure for an executive without any major accomplishments. And I don't quite follow the hand wringing and worry of some Habs that I know, "pucha we're finally going in the right direction, our prospect pool is top five, if someone else comes in to run the show we might screw it up." My feeling is that if Molson wants to be a draft and develop organization, he owns the team and he can certainly ensure that vision would be the one executed by whoever sits in the GM chair.
For instance, did the Flyers and Hurricanes' retools/rebuilds fly off the rails when Hextall and Francis, respectively, were fired? Clearly not. Fletcher and Waddell did not trade away the kids. At times, an organization simply needs a new decision maker with a different leadership style to step in even when the strategic vision is not fundamentally being altered.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 17, 2019 19:44:52 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. It is extraordinary that a gm in any business, particularly hockey, can, after 8 years of ineptitude, say "trust me, the future is ours" and be believed. Give me any job in the world, regardless of my knowledge and experience, and allow me after 8 years of futility to keep my job because I'm telling you the future is bright, and i will conclude you are an incompetent owner with either no spine or vision. Or just happy to be making money regardless of the product being produced. You would be surprised how long semi-worthless but know the game can survive. It's the CEO's that don't perform that get axed more often. There is no doubt whatsoever that the only thing that is keeping Bbinz in his job is the language issue. None. Zero. And Bbinz knows this. So that is why he will do as little as possible to rock the boat and get a bigger target on his back. I'm not sure that if we finish with 85 points, Bbinz will be fired. His bu*****ap "defense" is that he's building for the future and job saving "patience' is required. Two events that Mol$on will not ignore. Fans at the DingAlong center screaming "FIRE BERGY" on national broadcast and a boycott. If there is one thing that will override every issue including language, it's the threat of fan rebellion.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 18, 2019 6:02:01 GMT -5
It is extraordinary that a gm in any business, particularly hockey, can, after 8 years of ineptitude, say "trust me, the future is ours" and be believed. Give me any job in the world, regardless of my knowledge and experience, and allow me after 8 years of futility to keep my job because I'm telling you the future is bright, and i will conclude you are an incompetent owner with either no spine or vision. Or just happy to be making money regardless of the product being produced. You would be surprised how long semi-worthless but know the game can survive. It's the CEO's that don't perform that get axed more often. There is no doubt whatsoever that the only thing that is keeping Bbinz in his job is the language issue. None. Zero. And Bbinz knows this. So that is why he will do as little as possible to rock the boat and get a bigger target on his back. I'm not sure that if we finish with 85 points, Bbinz will be fired. His bu*****ap "defense" is that he's building for the future and job saving "patience' is required. Two events that Mol$on will not ignore. Fans at the DingAlong center screaming "FIRE BERGY" on national broadcast and a boycott. If there is one thing that will override every issue including language, it's the threat of fan rebellion. Fan rebellions only happen by fans who are truly passionate... look at what Liverpool fans did... habs fans have become sheep... they lose 4 games and its grumble grumble grumble win 1 and its woohoo...
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Post by jkr on Dec 18, 2019 9:00:57 GMT -5
You've nailed it Willie.
Fans here throw a jersey on the ice or wear a bag on their head & think they are sticking to the man. It's laughable.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 18, 2019 15:08:48 GMT -5
The essiest thing is to start chanting......FIRE BERGY. Through the entire game.
Has it happened?
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 18, 2019 15:13:53 GMT -5
The essiest thing is to start chanting......FIRE BERGY. Through the entire game. Has it happened? we need the guy with the t-shirts in Florida to start selling them in Montreal... They will probably stop you from coming into the arena with them on.
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Post by drkcloud on Dec 18, 2019 23:46:20 GMT -5
You would be surprised how long semi-worthless but know the game can survive. It's the CEO's that don't perform that get axed more often. There is no doubt whatsoever that the only thing that is keeping Bbinz in his job is the language issue. None. Zero. And Bbinz knows this. So that is why he will do as little as possible to rock the boat and get a bigger target on his back. I'm not sure that if we finish with 85 points, Bbinz will be fired. His bu*****ap "defense" is that he's building for the future and job saving "patience' is required. Two events that Mol$on will not ignore. Fans at the DingAlong center screaming "FIRE BERGY" on national broadcast and a boycott. If there is one thing that will override every issue including language, it's the threat of fan rebellion. Fan rebellions only happen by fans who are truly passionate... look at what Liverpool fans did... habs fans have become sheep... they lose 4 games and its grumble grumble grumble win 1 and its woohoo... Montreal fans have forgotten what it's like to be exceptional. It's ok to have to compete against the lesser lights. We've accepted mediocrity
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 19, 2019 2:01:46 GMT -5
The essiest thing is to start chanting......FIRE BERGY. Through the entire game. Has it happened? I'm thinking "Fire Molson" would be more effective. Geoffy Boy has probably never had to confronted criticism head on. The humiliation would more than he cold bare and he would look to either fire Bergy or get out of Dodge. I'd be happy with either route.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 19, 2019 2:04:20 GMT -5
Lot of talk about Shea for the Norris. If Shea wins the Norris, MB will keep his job whether we make the playoffs or not. Which begs the question: has a Norris winner ever come from a non-playoff team?
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 19, 2019 6:02:08 GMT -5
Lot of talk about Shea for the Norris. If Shea wins the Norris, MB will keep his job whether we make the playoffs or not. Which begs the question: has a Norris winner ever come from a non-playoff team? This is a plot by the NHL to keep the Habs down... keep bad management and ownership in place.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 19, 2019 11:18:00 GMT -5
Lot of talk about Shea for the Norris. If Shea wins the Norris, MB will keep his job whether we make the playoffs or not. Which begs the question: has a Norris winner ever come from a non-playoff team? Sources? The US Senate? 42% secondary points compared to 26% for Carlson who also has 50% more points. Pietrangelo? I think I'll stop there because we haven't even started on the transition aspects. Shea's having a great year but there are a few other guys playing extremely well. I think that unless Carlson gets hurt or falls off a cliff, its his to lose.
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Post by Polarice on Dec 19, 2019 11:27:55 GMT -5
Fan rebellions only happen by fans who are truly passionate... look at what Liverpool fans did... habs fans have become sheep... they lose 4 games and its grumble grumble grumble win 1 and its woohoo... Montreal fans have forgotten what it's like to be exceptional. It's ok to have to compete against the lesser lights. We've accepted mediocrity The salary cap has changed a lot of teams that used to be able to buy any player they wanted, Montreal is one of those. When they wanted someone they just bought them or the Junior team they were playing for. Now, we have to be smart and spend our money wisely and try to build from the draft. Montreal can no longer out bid other teams for free agents. League equality has killed the advantage of being a rich team. I remember reading somewhere...probably here, that if you took the Habs 78' team and converted the players salaries to today, that our salary cap would have been around the $280 Million mark. Can you imagine the type of team we could have if we could spend $280 million!!
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 19, 2019 12:48:31 GMT -5
Montreal fans have forgotten what it's like to be exceptional. It's ok to have to compete against the lesser lights. We've accepted mediocrity The salary cap has changed a lot of teams that used to be able to buy any player they wanted, Montreal is one of those. When they wanted someone they just bought them or the Junior team they were playing for. Now, we have to be smart and spend our money wisely and try to build from the draft. Montreal can no longer out bid other teams for free agents. League equality has killed the advantage of being a rich team. I remember reading somewhere...probably here, that if you took the Habs 78' team and converted the players salaries to today, that our salary cap would have been around the $280 Million mark. Can you imagine the type of team we could have if we could spend $280 million!! Molson would stay $240 million under the cap.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 19, 2019 14:28:15 GMT -5
The salary cap has changed a lot of teams that used to be able to buy any player they wanted, Montreal is one of those. When they wanted someone they just bought them or the Junior team they were playing for. Now, we have to be smart and spend our money wisely and try to build from the draft. Montreal can no longer out bid other teams for free agents. League equality has killed the advantage of being a rich team. I remember reading somewhere...probably here, that if you took the Habs 78' team and converted the players salaries to today, that our salary cap would have been around the $280 Million mark. Can you imagine the type of team we could have if we could spend $280 million!! Molson would stay $240 million under the cap. Lmao... Bazinga
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 19, 2019 15:47:52 GMT -5
Montreal fans have forgotten what it's like to be exceptional. It's ok to have to compete against the lesser lights. We've accepted mediocrity The salary cap has changed a lot of teams that used to be able to buy any player they wanted, Montreal is one of those. When they wanted someone they just bought them or the Junior team they were playing for. Now, we have to be smart and spend our money wisely and try to build from the draft. Montreal can no longer out bid other teams for free agents. League equality has killed the advantage of being a rich team. I remember reading somewhere...probably here, that if you took the Habs 78' team and converted the players salaries to today, that our salary cap would have been around the $280 Million mark. Can you imagine the type of team we could have if we could spend $280 million!! So what! They can make that from their new and improved hot dogs.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 19, 2019 16:23:28 GMT -5
I remember reading somewhere...probably here, that if you took the Habs 78' team and converted the players salaries to today, that our salary cap would have been around the $280 Million mark. Can you imagine the type of team we could have if we could spend $280 million!! There is no way this is true. If it is, I’d like to see the math. For starters, since the future value of 1978 dollars to 2019 dollars is approximately 4 times as much (for US dollars I believe) that would mean the 1978 Habs spent 70 million on salary in 1978. In 1978, there was only one player making one million dollars. So if Montreal had all 25 getting 1 million they’d only would have spent 25 million. However, we know many of those salaries. In 1978, Guy Lafleur and Ken Dryden were the highest paid Habs at $169,000. So let’s assume all 25 players made $170,000 then the total expenditure on salaries would be $4.25 million ... which in 2019 dollars is 17 million roughly Perhaps the author meant their worth based on performance?? Not what they were paid ... btw, in 1978 Lafleur and DRYDEN were the 15th highest paid players
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Post by jkr on Dec 19, 2019 22:17:16 GMT -5
Lot of talk about Shea for the Norris. If Shea wins the Norris, MB will keep his job whether we make the playoffs or not. Which begs the question: has a Norris winner ever come from a non-playoff team? I know it's early but I would go with John Carlson.
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Post by habsask on Dec 19, 2019 23:55:58 GMT -5
Bergevin said some obvious things that are hard to dispute. I agree with his assessment that given where Montreal stands now there is no player available in the market who would guarantee the Habs make the playoffs. I also agree with the draft and develop path to building a winner, in particular since Bergevin has proved unable to sell his vision to high end UFAs. However, Bergevin said some things that seem contradictory. He said Price, Weber, and Petry are huge parts of the long term future. By the time Seattle is playing in the league, Weber will be 36 years old, Price 34 and Petry 33. I am not saying they will be bad NHL players in two years time, but it reasons that they will be less impactful than they are now. And management should keep in mind that this veteran core does not include enough real difference-makers to even drag their mates into the playoffs (this would be three consecutive seasons with no post season). Why, then, is imperative to keep the whole gang together? Change is normal. That first paragraph is also contradictory. There is never a single player that can guarantee you make the playoffs. Ask Edmonton. By that logic, you'd not trade for Connor McDavid because doesn't get his team into the playoffs. But to stay stagnant, because of that logic, is why Bergevin is a piss-poor GM. Period. Pointe Finale The second point. He is holding steady to his "draft and develop" path, and its a good thing. Is it really?? How many #3 overall draft picks does it take for everyone to realize that the draft plan is not going to work. Don't anyone give me that "it has to be the right year nonsense" … sure not all #3's are the same talent wise, I get that. But BOTH our #3s were performing at record clips until the Einstein's running this team got involved, and tried to change them. They ruined Galchenyuk forever .. (don't get me started again on his numbers as a center, and on the top 2 lines, they were as impressive as the Habs ever saw in a decade.) But it wasn't good enough. Nope. It wasn't good enough for Galchenyuk to score at close to a point a game, noooo he had to be a good defensively. But only him. Not all the other little buggers skating around with minuses attached to their names. Just Alex. And KK. He was on pace to break a 40+ year old record last year, from the third line. Then they wanted him to start playing defense. Concentrate on that. Never mind an 18 yr old who was drafted as the future center of the first line (that was the hype for bypassing other more safe picks) had 20 points and was +1 (in the first half of the season)… 18 , did I say he was 18 … nope, he had to be a good little soldier too. We don't need you being better than the guys we want on the top line, we didn't put you on this team for you to be that good that fast … nope nope nope … we might have to trade Danault if you do that. So you sit down, play with plugs, get no PP time and let us complain that you aren't developing properly or as we hoped … #howIreallyfeel Yea, pretty well how I feel as well Skilly. In an an interesting side note Pacioretty was shipped to Vegas because he wouldn't play defense. True enough. And in Vegas last season he didn't do much. But Vegas didn't give up on him - instead they acquired Stone who not only scores but is a very good defensive winger. And so without the nagging & playing with Stone Patches is leading Vegas in points, is virtually at a point a game clip and is 18th in the League in points. And allow me to ruminate a bit....in the 70's the Habs had this guy by the name of Lafleur. He wouldn't play defense either. But that was solved by pairing him with Lemaire. That kinda...sorta...you know....worked out. Jeez I can't stand the ownership, management and coaching of this team. As Yosemite Sam used to say - Rackin' Frackin', mutter, mutter... Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 20, 2019 2:28:48 GMT -5
Lot of talk about Shea for the Norris. If Shea wins the Norris, MB will keep his job whether we make the playoffs or not. Which begs the question: has a Norris winner ever come from a non-playoff team? Sources? The US Senate? 42% secondary points compared to 26% for Carlson who also has 50% more points. Pietrangelo? I think I'll stop there because we haven't even started on the transition aspects. Shea's having a great year but there are a few other guys playing extremely well. I think that unless Carlson gets hurt or falls off a cliff, its his to lose. Every sports media outlet I know has Shea in the Norris conversation: TSN, SN, and media in Vanc and Calg, or wherever Shea happens to be playing. I don't disagree that Carlson is the favourite, but he Shea is in the discussion. Even if Shea is one of the finalists, that will be some gloating for MB.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 1, 2020 14:02:22 GMT -5
Just a friendly reminder, fellas ... thanks ...
Dis
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 1, 2020 14:36:08 GMT -5
Sources? The US Senate? 42% secondary points compared to 26% for Carlson who also has 50% more points. Pietrangelo? I think I'll stop there because we haven't even started on the transition aspects. Shea's having a great year but there are a few other guys playing extremely well. I think that unless Carlson gets hurt or falls off a cliff, its his to lose. Every sports media outlet I know has Shea in the Norris conversation: TSN, SN, and media in Vanc and Calg, or wherever Shea happens to be playing. I don't disagree that Carlson is the favourite, but he Shea is in the discussion. Even if Shea is one of the finalists, that will be some gloating for MB. If MB gloats, a media person better have the cojones to ask MB to look at the standings and the playoff record under his magnificent leadership.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 1, 2020 22:05:54 GMT -5
Every sports media outlet I know has Shea in the Norris conversation: TSN, SN, and media in Vanc and Calg, or wherever Shea happens to be playing. I don't disagree that Carlson is the favourite, but he Shea is in the discussion. Even if Shea is one of the finalists, that will be some gloating for MB. If MB gloats, a media person better have the cojones to ask MB to look at the standings and the playoff record under his magnificent leadership. Can’t think of anything that hasn’t already been said. Can’t thing of anything Bergy could do that would get him fired. Maybe if he said “bonjour hello”.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 2, 2020 1:04:55 GMT -5
With the Weise instead of Evan's call-up, this is now a full blown clown show.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 2, 2020 12:17:45 GMT -5
It's the constant shifting of expectations.
After bottoming out in 2017-18, Bergevin changed course with the Pacioretty and Galchenyuk trades. Those actually worked out well and the team rebounded with a 96 point season and barely missed the playoffs.
But Berg/Molson were careful not to say explicitly what the goal was for 2019-20. At least I never heard it other than "we always want to make the playoffs" mantra.
So far, this year has been a step back. After 40 games last year the Habs were 21-14-5, good for 47 points. This year we are 18-16-6 and 42 points. Well off the pace of the leaders, well off the pace of our record last year, but still within striking distance of the playoffs.
It's the Bergie shuffle. Keep changing the goal posts. He can say "we're in the hunt for the playoffs" even though the team has regressed in terms of its record. Or he can point to the development of a guy like Suzuki and say "the youth movement is on track" and we're building for the long-term. Oh, and have you compared Shea Weber's stats with PK's this year? See, I'm not so dumb after all.
Bergie is a snake who will keep changing the subject, keep changing the bar as long as he gets to keep his job.
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