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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 31, 2020 15:57:55 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Dec 31, 2020 16:33:16 GMT -5
No. Nooo. NOOOOOOOO...don't do this to me. Old man drooling is not a pretty sight.....
Suzuki for Dubois? But, how the hell do we sign him for 8 million without blowing up the team? Shea Weber? We will never get equal value. Drouin? No one is going to give us full value for him either.
This is once in a generation franchise AND Quebec kid that will be the face of the Habs for 15 years and yet, no way to get him here without totally sacrificing any chance this year.
Wait...he just signed for 2x5.
Maybe next time.....
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Post by GNick99 on Dec 31, 2020 16:37:24 GMT -5
Be major! Habs made their moves too quick. Judging by what Hoffman signed for. Dunn also and Chara. We paid full blown retail for Allen, Anderson, Edmundson, Etc. . |
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Post by folatre on Dec 31, 2020 17:01:24 GMT -5
One may surmise that Columbus has a relatively short window before things likely become unviable from a cap and cash flow standpoint.
Look at the guys on that team with contracts expiring in the summer of 2022: Seth Jones, Werenski, Dubois, Domi, both their goalies.
Jones, as a 28 year old UFA, is going to get $9+ per. Werenski's qualifying offer has to be a minimum of $7.7 million and that would walk him to unrestricted free agency so anything that buys UFAs from him will cost $8+ per. And Dubois will be arbitration eligible next time and it seems he was perfectly willing to play hardball this time around, rebuffing all attempts by Kekalainen to get him locked up long-term.
The Blue Jackets are blessed to have three legitimately elite kids in their prime but it is really hard to imagine them all there for much longer.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 31, 2020 17:01:38 GMT -5
Target signing with a plan behind it is going to be more expensive then signing the best player available for the money.
As much as I diss Bbinz, he had a plan to build a tough to play against team and a good backup goalie. On paper, he did that. In spades.
As for Dubois, he had to make a 9 million offer, or trade Suzuki for him. Either way, there was no further "plan" to be had because there is simply no cap space. Plus trading Suzuki for Dubois is a straight up point exchange and adds a bit of toughness, but nowhere what has been done now.
Dubois will be available in two years with Covid behind us and a new tv deal and hopefully, a slew of youngsters on the way.
Meanwhile....I need to take a shower to wash off all that drool......
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Post by Cranky on Dec 31, 2020 17:13:01 GMT -5
One may surmise that Columbus has a relatively short window before things likely become unviable from a cap and cash flow standpoint. Look at the guys on that team with contracts expiring in the summer of 2022: Seth Jones, Werenski, Dubois, Domi, both their goalies. Jones, as a 28 year old UFA, is going to get $9+ per. Werenski's qualifying offer has to be a minimum of $7.7 million and that would walk him to unrestricted free agency so anything that buys UFAs from him will cost $8+ per. And Dubois will be arbitration eligible next time and it seems he was perfectly willing to play hardball this time around, rebuffing all attempts by Kekalainen to get him locked up long-term. The Blue Jackets are blessed to have three legitimately elite kids in their prime but it is really hard to imagine them all there for much longer. It's written in the Money Bible, second edition, under Take Advantage, page 234, "Ye shall entice and steal thy neighbors goat$ with more green$". (BTW, I sleep with that Bible right besides me.) Werenski may not be needed if Struble and Romanov hit our dream expectations, but Dubois is special in that he has size, some meanness, Quebec kid and can actually play like a 1C. Unfortunately, if Kk/Suzuki can also play like 1C, in 2 years, they can wipe out whatever cap comes our way. These things come and go in "windows" of opportunity. |
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Post by folatre on Dec 31, 2020 17:34:05 GMT -5
Jeje, I had just cracked open a cold pop when I read this, man I laughed and just about had a swallow of beer come out my nose.
Columbus may be suffering from sticker shock on Dubois' next deal, but they will still control him so Montreal would have to put together a heck of package.
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 1, 2021 12:05:04 GMT -5
Dubois signed yesterday. 2 year 10 million.
Dreger reporting Barzal not close though.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 1, 2021 12:18:08 GMT -5
That second year has a way bigger number than the first year so if it goes to arbitration then he assures himself a big payday in yr 3.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 1, 2021 17:48:29 GMT -5
Jeje, I had just cracked open a cold pop when I read this, man I laughed and just about had a swallow of beer come out my nose. Columbus may be suffering from sticker shock on Dubois' next deal, but they will still control him so Montreal would have to put together a heck of package. True. I'm not sure what most fans think of Columbus but they have a) an elite centre (yes Dubois, not Domi  ) b) an elite defenseman in Seth Jones c) an excellent supporting defenseman in Zach Werenski Ergo....the foundations of a Stanley Cup contender. They are closer, IMO, to the Cup than the Habs, who have way more 'depth'. Yes, the BJ's are indeed weak in a lot of spots, but most of those are filler spots where you can sign a FA for not too much. Heck, the 07 Ducks won the Cup with a top centre of Andy McDonald (though one could argue a 58 point 2nd year Ryan Getzlaf may have been more important). What made the difference was they had an elite scorer, Selanne, and two defensemen who could practically be on the ice the whole game, 30 minutes each....namely Scott Neidermayer and Chris Pronger. The 3rd defenseman was (flip a coin) either Francois Beauchemin or Sean O'Donnell. No wonder I chuckle every time I hear we need the right partner for Shea Weber. It's telling when you don't hear that comment about Seth Jones or Victor Hedman or Mark Giordano or John Carlson and you never heard it about Erik Karlsson or Andrei Markov either. It doesn't matter who plays with an elite defenseman. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 2, 2021 9:56:37 GMT -5
No wonder I chuckle every time I hear we need the right partner for Shea Weber. It's telling when you don't hear that comment about Seth Jones or Victor Hedman or Mark Giordano or John Carlson and you never heard it about Erik Karlsson or Andrei Markov either. It doesn't matter who plays with an elite defenseman. 2 words for you... Mike Komisarek |
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 2, 2021 13:26:20 GMT -5
No wonder I chuckle every time I hear we need the right partner for Shea Weber. It's telling when you don't hear that comment about Seth Jones or Victor Hedman or Mark Giordano or John Carlson and you never heard it about Erik Karlsson or Andrei Markov either. It doesn't matter who plays with an elite defenseman. 2 words for you... Mike Komisarek I think eventually ROmanov play with Weber. You want a young talent like that to learn from a stud. But can he play 25 minutes out of the gate? Romanov start the season with on 3rd pairing, before more ice time. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 2, 2021 15:53:22 GMT -5
2 words for you... Mike Komisarek I think eventually ROmanov play with Weber. You want a young talent like that to learn from a stud. But can he play 25 minutes out of the gate? Romanov start the season with on 3rd pairing, before more ice time. As long as CJ doesn't let his bad habit of punishing a kid for a mistake rear its ugly head... Hopefully with the visibility Romanov has that won't happen... |
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 2, 2021 16:03:42 GMT -5
I think eventually ROmanov play with Weber. You want a young talent like that to learn from a stud. But can he play 25 minutes out of the gate? Romanov start the season with on 3rd pairing, before more ice time. As long as CJ doesn't let his bad habit of punishing a kid for a mistake rear its ugly head... Hopefully with the visibility Romanov has that won't happen... CJ is more defensive coach than we should have given we play a speed transition-game. Weber is going to play all our big minutes. Against opponents top line, 1st power play, 1st penalty killing minutes. Romanov not ready for those kind of minutes yet. Weber shot is wicked. I would not want to be around the net when he winds up. Has to be hardest shot ever on Habs. Souray had a good shot, Lafleur too. Gaston Gingras, Richer, but Weber shot the hardest. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 4, 2021 8:00:40 GMT -5
I don't think I would trade for Dubois. Certainly have reservations about it. A french Canadian star Dubois be facing immense media and social pressure here. It has destoryed a lot of careers here, like Lafleur or Droiun. Or players asking to get out. Like Patrick Roy, Claude Lemiuex. I would certainly have to known PLD personality better before attempt to trade for him. For the costs sounds high, similar to a Barzal or Laine. Doubt I could give up Koktaniemi straight up for him. Dubois better player but risk of collapse here in Montreal.
Him and Anderson had great year 2 years ago in Columbus though. I don't know? They never had a great playoff I remember. Can recall Atkinson, Panini and Duchene more clearly.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 4, 2021 10:33:59 GMT -5
I don't think I would trade for Dubois. Certainly have reservations about it. A french Canadian star Dubois be facing immense media and social pressure here. It has destoryed a lot of careers here, like Lafleur or Droiun. Or players asking to get out. Like Patrick Roy, Claude Lemiuex. I would certainly have to known PLD personality better before attempt to trade for him. For the costs sounds high, similar to a Barzal or Laine. Doubt I could give up Koktaniemi straight up for him. Dubois better player but risk of collapse here in Montreal. Him and Anderson had great year 2 years ago in Columbus though. I don't know? They never had a great playoff I remember. Can recall Atkinson, Panini and Duchene more clearly. For sure, it's either K.K. or Suzuki that would have to go back in return as part of a package. I would do K.K. + ? + ?, but have no idea what that would be. I would guess Columbus would be asking about Guehle and Caulfield and if it's those 3, then I wouldn't do it. It all depends on the offer. I am sure Marc will be doing an exploratory call. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 4, 2021 18:50:43 GMT -5
I think that Columbus waits until the off-season to move him. They will be listening, but they only control Jones and Werenski this season and next so they are probably more tempted to take another kick at the can in what looks like a closing window for them to do damage in the playoffs.
If Bergevin is calling Kekalainen in the off-season, the ask will surely be sky high. I would say Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Norlinder, and a second rounder would be realistic.
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 5, 2021 8:46:52 GMT -5
I don't think I would trade for Dubois. Certainly have reservations about it. A french Canadian star Dubois be facing immense media and social pressure here. It has destoryed a lot of careers here, like Lafleur or Droiun. Or players asking to get out. Like Patrick Roy, Claude Lemiuex. I would certainly have to known PLD personality better before attempt to trade for him. For the costs sounds high, similar to a Barzal or Laine. Doubt I could give up Koktaniemi straight up for him. Dubois better player but risk of collapse here in Montreal. Him and Anderson had great year 2 years ago in Columbus though. I don't know? They never had a great playoff I remember. Can recall Atkinson, Panini and Duchene more clearly. For sure, it's either K.K. or Suzuki that would have to go back in return as part of a package. I would do K.K. + ? + ?, but have no idea what that would be. I would guess Columbus would be asking about Guehle and Caulfield and if it's those 3, then I wouldn't do it. It all depends on the offer. I am sure Marc will be doing an exploratory call. I wouldn't do it. Too much gamble. I am not as high on Dubois coming here as most Hab fans. Seen too many French Canadians collapse here |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 6, 2021 17:24:44 GMT -5
I'd love to have him in Montreal, but I'm not willing to tap the depth of the team to bring him in ... not at this point, no ... let's go with what we have and move forward with that ...
Cheers.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 6, 2021 18:11:46 GMT -5
There are two factors that can land us Dubois.
Torts and Anderson.
I bet my precious GI Joe doll house that Anderson is talking to Dubois. There is no way for the Jackets to anything about that. Also, through his agent he can tell other teams that he doesn't want to go where the Jackets get the best bid. No team will trade for him without talking to him or his agent so this is not going to be a top secret.
Torts is Torts. A 50s tyrant that player relations has moved past him.
We may get Dubois without losing Suzuki. Problem is Kk is still a question so he needs a lot of adds.
I absolutely would not trade Suzuki. The kid can have two Mr Potatoe Heads and still get points.
Say goodbye to Kk and Romanov. But then, Suzuki and Dubois? Where do i donate blood to get this done.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 6, 2021 18:16:28 GMT -5
I'd love to have him in Montreal, but I'm not willing to tap the depth of the team to bring him in ... not at this point, no ... let's go with what we have and move forward with that ... Cheers. Dubois can dominate. He can play like he has a chip on his shoulder. If moving him to montreal makes that chip into a really angry itch. RocKet style, i pity the NHL. Problem is...does he embrace his role as king...or cower under it as a pauper? |
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 7, 2021 7:19:35 GMT -5
I would pass on Dubois. Even though Habs have depth to move multiply forwards. Plus a deep farm system and ton of extra picks.
Wonder if Boston falls out they trade a big name?
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Post by frozone on Jan 7, 2021 10:03:06 GMT -5
I think MB would have to at least look into what the cost would be to pick up Dubois. We've talked a bunch about Danault's value to the team and who a suitable replacement would be. Well, Dubois would be an upgrade that can be a beast on both ends of the ice. I think PLD's offensive game is a bit overrated, but he can play the game any style you want, which absolutely suits the new look Habs. Or, if there are legitimate doubts about how KK will develop from here on out, one would think that we could work out a deal with KK as the center piece.
Either way, picking up PLD makes this team better in almost every way. He's just so complete. But it's important that we don't give up too much offense for a centerman that doesn't exactly drive the offense.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 7, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5
I'd love to have him because I think he's getting better, because he's 6'3" 218 lbs, because he's a Quebec kid, because he's durable and because he didn't take a step down last year despite Panarin leaving and there being more pressure on him to produce. The issue is that he'd cost a lot, including someone like Suzuki or KK. At that point one wonders if he will be that much of an upgrade on what we're losing. Even up, yes, I'd do it, but Kekalainen probably wouldn't.
Did I mention he produced 10 points in 10 'playoff' games?
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 8, 2021 11:57:26 GMT -5
I think MB would have to at least look into what the cost would be to pick up Dubois. We've talked a bunch about Danault's value to the team and who a suitable replacement would be. Well, Dubois would be an upgrade that can be a beast on both ends of the ice. I think PLD's offensive game is a bit overrated, but he can play the game any style you want, which absolutely suits the new look Habs. Or, if there are legitimate doubts about how KK will develop from here on out, one would think that we could work out a deal with KK as the center piece. Either way, picking up PLD makes this team better in almost every way. He's just so complete. But it's important that we don't give up too much offense for a centerman that doesn't exactly drive the offense. 49 points he's along ways from driving the offense. The costs is too high, he won't live up to expectations with media attention in hockey mad Montreal. 690 yesterday they wanted to offer Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle. Way too much |
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Post by frozone on Jan 8, 2021 12:36:43 GMT -5
I think MB would have to at least look into what the cost would be to pick up Dubois. We've talked a bunch about Danault's value to the team and who a suitable replacement would be. Well, Dubois would be an upgrade that can be a beast on both ends of the ice. I think PLD's offensive game is a bit overrated, but he can play the game any style you want, which absolutely suits the new look Habs. Or, if there are legitimate doubts about how KK will develop from here on out, one would think that we could work out a deal with KK as the center piece. Either way, picking up PLD makes this team better in almost every way. He's just so complete. But it's important that we don't give up too much offense for a centerman that doesn't exactly drive the offense. 49 points he's along ways from driving the offense. The costs is too high, he won't live up to expectations with media attention in hockey mad Montreal. 690 yesterday they wanted to offer Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle. Way too much I tend to agree with you Gnick, in that he's not the creative type that can drive the offense à la Mackinnon, Point, Eichel etc. PLD is more of a responsible all around player with the huge advantage of being able to impose his will on a game when he turns into the Hulk. And considering he's only 22 years old, one has to wonder what his ceiling is. Has he peaked already as a 0.7 ppg player? Will he develop to be an O'Reilly or Coutourier with a temper and the physical tools to back it up? A faster Jamie Benn? Very hard to say, and the local boy pressure is certainly a risk, but there certainly aren't many players like him. Some people probably take that risk if the price is low enough. That being said, if Columbus asks for Suzuki, Caufield and Guhle, I would counter offer them just Jordan Weal. If they want to overask to such an extreme, might as well lowball them to the same degree. Ok, maybe I'd throw in a 7th rounder. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 8, 2021 13:55:49 GMT -5
I think MB would have to at least look into what the cost would be to pick up Dubois. We've talked a bunch about Danault's value to the team and who a suitable replacement would be. Well, Dubois would be an upgrade that can be a beast on both ends of the ice. I think PLD's offensive game is a bit overrated, but he can play the game any style you want, which absolutely suits the new look Habs. Or, if there are legitimate doubts about how KK will develop from here on out, one would think that we could work out a deal with KK as the center piece. Either way, picking up PLD makes this team better in almost every way. He's just so complete. But it's important that we don't give up too much offense for a centerman that doesn't exactly drive the offense. 49 points he's along ways from driving the offense. The costs is too high, he won't live up to expectations with media attention in hockey mad Montreal. 690 yesterday they wanted to offer Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle. Way too much 49 points, but only in 70 games which was almost equal to his ppg pace from the year before, when he was playing with Panarin. One of the things I look at when judging draftable kids isi the difference between their regular season pace and their playoff pace. I usually rank someone a little better if they've picked it up in the playoffs. Often, kids take a development step up at that point. It seems odd because there's hardly any time passage before a playoff starts, but it just seems to be that way. I've seen that more often than not with good NHL players. Dubois went from .70 ppg in the regular season to a full 1.0 ppg in last year's post season. I think that will carry over to this year. I'm not necessarily saying Dubois will be any better than Suzuki or KK because that's a different discussion, but I think he's going to produce at a better pace than he has his first 3 years. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 8, 2021 17:27:36 GMT -5
I'll drive to Montreal to drive Danault, Guhle and our 1st to the airport for PLD.
At worse, he's our 2C. Which means Suzuki is elite.
You simply can't test tube proven power forward centers that play a 360 game AND are local boy. You simply can't.
Just do it...
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 8, 2021 17:55:41 GMT -5
Is this the bold prediction thread? Where is the bold prediction thread? Damn these aging eyes!
Oh well. Here is my bold prediction.
Jesperi Kotkaniemi will be better than Pierre-Luc Dubois. Perhaps as early as this year.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 8, 2021 18:06:45 GMT -5
So PLD is a 3C for us.
DAMMIT....THAT'S AN EPIC DISATER!!!!
There is possibly another horrible scenario, PLD is a power forward winger.
Horrible...HORRIBLE I tell'ya.
PLD-Kk-Anderson.....the horrors of lining up body bags for our Legion Of Pain....
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