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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 24, 2023 15:16:05 GMT -5
Monahan has graduated to a non-contact jersey.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2023 15:52:20 GMT -5
It's usually back to action then, within a week? Can't be soon enough. Huge decisions to be made, probably based on just what we can get in return. If it's a trade, a negotiated extension ahead of time will improve the assets we get back.
I know Horvat's there, and he has a better history of suffering injuries, but Monahan has a lot going for him. Good on faceoffs, probably a touch better at setting up others, an equally good scorer (Horvat's a 30 goal guy, not 40, even if that's still very good). I don't see anyone better than those two though and teams that are reported or who clearly need a 2C are Colorado, Carolina, NYI, and (choke) Boston. I
am discounting Boston because they have nothing anyone would want. Maybe their unprotected first rounders in 2025 and 2027, but they will struggle to come up with any assets a rebuilding team would want and they are willing to give up (Pasternak is off the table). Natural consequences. The other 3 teams all have guys we could use, so even if one of them poaches Horvat, there's still 2 to play off against each other, plus anyone else who thinks they have a chance, if only they had a strong 2C.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 24, 2023 16:11:46 GMT -5
A question I have is does Horvat make guys around him better? From what I have seen of Monahan is that he does, so he can fit in a lineup better and can be a 2C or a 3C for anyone with cup aspirations.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 24, 2023 16:14:53 GMT -5
It's usually back to action then, within a week? Can't be soon enough. Huge decisions to be made, probably based on just what we can get in return. If it's a trade, a negotiated extension ahead of time will improve the assets we get back. I know Horvat's there, and he has a better history of suffering injuries, but Monahan has a lot going for him. Good on faceoffs, probably a touch better at setting up others, an equally good scorer (Horvat's a 30 goal guy, not 40, even if that's still very good). I don't see anyone better than those two though and teams that are reported or who clearly need a 2C are Colorado, Carolina, NYI, and (choke) Boston. I am discounting Boston because they have nothing anyone would want. Maybe their unprotected first rounders in 2025 and 2027, but they will struggle to come up with any assets a rebuilding team would want and they are willing to give up (Pasternak is off the table). Natural consequences. The other 3 teams all have guys we could use, so even if one of them poaches Horvat, there's still 2 to play off against each other, plus anyone else who thinks they have a chance, if only they had a strong 2C. Don't count out the Leafs. I think they are looking for another guy that can move between 2nd and 3rd line (if the want to stack up two lines) and 2nd powerplay. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 24, 2023 17:36:34 GMT -5
The long term problem with Monahan is that if he's 4 million dollar player but is injured half the time, essentially you got an 8 million dollar player value wise.
Monahan is unlikely to put in a 70+ game season going forward. I rather save the cap space of an 8 million dollar Dubois plus a decent million dollar bottom 6. Also, given the stacked farm, those bottom 6 are going to start filling up the pipeline.
For me, a teacher of the kids has to bring attitude by the train load. The last one like that was Perry, which was and is a true leader up there with Weber. Obviously we didn't have a GM with enough brain cells to keep him for a few more years. His signing with Tampa was about him getting a lousy TWO year contract for a lousy million dollars. Another stupid move by Berger Brains.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 24, 2023 17:46:02 GMT -5
A question I have is does Horvat make guys around him better? From what I have seen of Monahan is that he does, so he can fit in a lineup better and can be a 2C or a 3C for anyone with cup aspirations. Horvath is going to want a 7x8 that will take him into 36 year old. Is he worth that much IF we can get Dubois for 8x8 and 33 year old at the end? To me, it's a no brainer. Right now, our two reliable centers are Suzuki and Dvorak. Pretty much a 1C and 3C. Monahan doesn't do much because he's now closer to 3C. Dubois is putting up 1C numbers. I'm good with two 1C even if they are in the top 10-15 range. Together, they make up a top five pair. Maybe the top NHL two if they both fully develop into the top 10 range. I'm advocating Dubois for two seasons because he's a perfect fit for us now and going forward a decade. |
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Post by jkr on Jan 24, 2023 17:47:51 GMT -5
It's usually back to action then, within a week? Can't be soon enough. Huge decisions to be made, probably based on just what we can get in return. If it's a trade, a negotiated extension ahead of time will improve the assets we get back. I know Horvat's there, and he has a better history of suffering injuries, but Monahan has a lot going for him. Good on faceoffs, probably a touch better at setting up others, an equally good scorer (Horvat's a 30 goal guy, not 40, even if that's still very good). I don't see anyone better than those two though and teams that are reported or who clearly need a 2C are Colorado, Carolina, NYI, and (choke) Boston. I am discounting Boston because they have nothing anyone would want. Maybe their unprotected first rounders in 2025 and 2027, but they will struggle to come up with any assets a rebuilding team would want and they are willing to give up (Pasternak is off the table). Natural consequences. The other 3 teams all have guys we could use, so even if one of them poaches Horvat, there's still 2 to play off against each other, plus anyone else who thinks they have a chance, if only they had a strong 2C. Don't count out the Leafs. I think they are looking for another guy that can move between 2nd and 3rd line (if the want to stack up two lines) and 2nd powerplay. Every time one of these guys is on the market the Leafs always come up. The last couple of years though, they havent made the big splash, guys like Foligno & Giordano. I read recently that Boston may be interested because they want to sign Horvat long term. They see him as a solution to the pending center issue they will have when Bergeron retires. They have done this before- pick up guys at the deadline & then re-sign them. I think Lindholm & Coyle were those types of a acquisitions. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 24, 2023 18:02:27 GMT -5
Don't count out the Leafs. I think they are looking for another guy that can move between 2nd and 3rd line (if the want to stack up two lines) and 2nd powerplay. Every time one of these guys is on the market the Leafs always come up. The last couple of years though, they havent made the big splash, guys like Foligno & Giordano. I read recently that Boston may be interested because they want to sign Horvat long term. They see him as a solution to the pending center issue they will have when Bergeron retires. They have done this before- pick up guys at the deadline & then re-sign them. I think Lindholm & Coyle were those types of a acquisitions. Coyle was "suppose" to be finished and not going to be worth his 5.5 contract. Yet here we are with pretty tough player that still very productive. Makes the Booins pretty smart at scouting potential in vets. The Habs do not have a Horvath in their farm unless Dach becomes one, BUT the problem is if they have a "potentially" much better option in Dubois, what do they do? |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 24, 2023 18:12:07 GMT -5
A question I have is does Horvat make guys around him better? From what I have seen of Monahan is that he does, so he can fit in a lineup better and can be a 2C or a 3C for anyone with cup aspirations. Horvath is going to want a 7x8 that will take him into 36 year old. Is he worth that much IF we can get Dubois for 8x8 and 33 year old at the end? To me, it's a no brainer. Right now, our two reliable centers are Suzuki and Dvorak. Pretty much a 1C and 3C. Monahan doesn't do much because he's now closer to 3C. Dubois is putting up 1C numbers. I'm good with two 1C even if they are in the top 10-15 range. Together, they make up a top five pair. Maybe the top NHL two if they both fully develop into the top 10 range. I'm advocating Dubois for two seasons because he's a perfect fit for us now and going forward a decade. I don't want to keep Monahan, I'm just wondering how he fits for a cup contender and he could be a great 3C on any cup contender |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 24, 2023 18:16:11 GMT -5
Every time one of these guys is on the market the Leafs always come up. The last couple of years though, they havent made the big splash, guys like Foligno & Giordano. I read recently that Boston may be interested because they want to sign Horvat long term. They see him as a solution to the pending center issue they will have when Bergeron retires. They have done this before- pick up guys at the deadline & then re-sign them. I think Lindholm & Coyle were those types of a acquisitions. Coyle was "suppose" to be finished and not going to be worth his 5.5 contract. Yet here we are with pretty tough player that still very productive. Makes the Booins pretty smart at scouting potential in vets. The Habs do not have a Horvath in their farm unless Dach becomes one, BUT the problem is if they have a "potentially" much better option in Dubois, what do they do? Who knows if DuBois will come to the Habs, there are no guarantees he wants to come and put up with the abuse... I say we develop Dach, who has really become an asshole to play against, and if DuBois comes we have options... |
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Post by folatre on Jan 24, 2023 22:24:21 GMT -5
For sure, Dach should play every night at centre for the remainder of the season. I enjoyed his success with Suzuki and Caufield. But Montreal needs to develop answers down the middle. And I readily admit this, notwithstanding that I am in the optimist camp who believes Dubois has mapped out his plan.
Horvat is three years older than Dubois and lacks the size, nastiness, and all-around game that PLD possesses. I would pass on giving a player like Horvat seven years at a hefty AAV, which is inevitably what he will find somewhere on the open market.
I hope Monahan is ready soon. If he can find his legs (his hands will be fine) for four weeks with game reps before the deadline, then I see suitors with legit interest. Colorado, for sure, needs a middle six centre who can actually produce and they lack the asset juice to go big game hunting. I do not really see much of fit with Boston or the Rangers unless those teams lose a middle six centre to injury. I think Tampa would be keen on Monahan but they literally have no picks and almost no prospects. I believe New Jersey could be a dark horse, particularly if Fitzgerald does not want to pay the sky high prices for guys like Horvat, O'Reilly, and Meier.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 25, 2023 0:19:53 GMT -5
It's usually back to action then, within a week? Can't be soon enough. Huge decisions to be made, probably based on just what we can get in return. If it's a trade, a negotiated extension ahead of time will improve the assets we get back. I know Horvat's there, and he has a better history of suffering injuries, but Monahan has a lot going for him. Good on faceoffs, probably a touch better at setting up others, an equally good scorer (Horvat's a 30 goal guy, not 40, even if that's still very good). I don't see anyone better than those two though and teams that are reported or who clearly need a 2C are Colorado, Carolina, NYI, and (choke) Boston. I am discounting Boston because they have nothing anyone would want. Maybe their unprotected first rounders in 2025 and 2027, but they will struggle to come up with any assets a rebuilding team would want and they are willing to give up (Pasternak is off the table). Natural consequences. The other 3 teams all have guys we could use, so even if one of them poaches Horvat, there's still 2 to play off against each other, plus anyone else who thinks they have a chance, if only they had a strong 2C. Don't count out the Leafs. I think they are looking for another guy that can move between 2nd and 3rd line (if the want to stack up two lines) and 2nd powerplay. I thought of them, but Matthews and Tavares are a pretty good 1-2 and I believe Kerfoot is playing 3C and he's having a very good year. Monahan is better, of course, especially at scoring and he's better than Tavares or Matthews on face-offs. I'd think the Leafs are more interested in a vet dman. Liljegren, Sandin and Timmins have been very solid, but they aren't playoff battle tested and that's probably giving Dubas some sleepless nights. Edmundson fits the bill for TO and for a lot of other teams. It's a war of attrition in the playoffs. The Leafs could really use more depth, as could other teams. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 25, 2023 0:31:24 GMT -5
Right now, our two reliable centers are Suzuki and Dvorak. Pretty much a 1C and 3C. Monahan doesn't do much because he's now closer to 3C. Dubois is putting up 1C numbers. There's a good case to be made for Dach having been our best centre this year. Every line he centres, improves. When he got moved up to the Suzuki line, it got better. I've even read some posts here and there that suggest, if we get or draft another centre who is elite, maybe Suzuki should move to the wing. That's going out aways and we've got lots of time to figure things out, but I wanted to make the point that Dach is not the 3C and possibly not even the 2C. He could be that good. That trade might be exceptional. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 25, 2023 9:02:49 GMT -5
Dach's development this season is a big positive for the organization. And his recent work at centre is intriguing because it could open the door to greater flexibility in roster construction going forward. I think the flexibility would manifest itself in terms of potentially trading Dvorak. Hockey is debatable, but moving Suzuki to wing is just not going to happen.
Regarding Monahan, there are only three games to play before the ten day recess for the all-star game and the bye week thing. So basically he should be plenty healed up by February 11. And even if he was held out of back to back scenarios, Monahan should be able to fire up the motor for 7-8 games before the trade deadline.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 25, 2023 10:46:38 GMT -5
Monahan will not be with the Habs come deadline. He can play in all situations and is a leader. He offers too much to a contender at a relatively low price - much lower than what will be asked for other good centres on the market. The only question is what can HuGo get for him. Hopefully at least a 2nd. If he can light it up in Feb then maybe more.
And he is not part of Habs long term plans. He will not be of much help 2-3 years from now, and we don't need him taking up valuable ice time from the kids we want to develop.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 25, 2023 14:01:26 GMT -5
Monahan will not be with the Habs come deadline. He can play in all situations and is a leader. He offers too much to a contender at a relatively low price - much lower than what will be asked for other good centres on the market. The only question is what can HuGo get for him. Hopefully at least a 2nd. If he can light it up in Feb then maybe more. And he is not part of Habs long term plans. He will not be of much help 2-3 years from now, and we don't need him taking up valuable ice time from the kids we want to develop. You make some good points about Monahan. They apply equally to him and the Habs if Hughes can extend him. He can play in all situations. He is a leader. He's not an old veteran (will be 29 at the start of next season), but, taking health into account, he can really help bridge the gap between the team being too young and maturing into a true contender with the right approach to the game. You need guys like that. David Savard is an example, as much as it annoys me. As a player, he is simply not that good, but the team seems to do better with him in the line-up, despite all the time we spend in our end. He is a stable pylon and every team needs that bit of stability. Luke Schenn is like that in Vancouver. Another pylon, but tough and happens to have good chemistry with Quinn Hughes, so he plays on the top pair. Schenn is grossly out of place, but Hughes can play his game and that is huge for Vancouver. That's why I don't discount the value of keeping Monahan, even if the return would be good, but only if an extension is involved, which negates the potential of signing him as a UFA. As a pure rental he'd get us a late first rounder, but with an extension, you could get even more. My dream is still Bowen Byram from the Rockies. We'd have to add to our end of course, but even if it's Monahan, Florida's pick and one of our lesser prospects (Kidney), I'd do it. Whether we keep him or trade him, it will have been another of Hughes' really good moves. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 25, 2023 18:19:30 GMT -5
Sometimes patterns are established whereby it is impossible to deny certain players are injury prone. This season is microcosm of who Monahan is since he hit his late 20s: a good versatile centre who is prone to spending long stretches of time on the IR. That is the kind of guy who I would love to have around on team friendly deal for a season or two. But to be honest I think it would be a mistake to commit to anything longer than a short-term contract.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 25, 2023 18:46:37 GMT -5
He was quite durable until the 2020/21 season and I believe that's when the hip issues came up. This latest one is not related to his hips so it could be a) it was just a fluke and he'll be fine or b) it's just another thing that might have worn out because of overuse during the hip injuries and therefore he will continue to have that and other problems.
Dach had that wrist injury and Chicago gave up on him, but Dach is much younger.
There's rarely an easy decision, non?
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 27, 2023 15:56:15 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 27, 2023 18:37:46 GMT -5
Welcome to the show, kid. I wonder if some other forward is down or if they are sick of just rolling with 11 forwards.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 27, 2023 19:09:30 GMT -5
Wow... this is becoming the prospect show me season... I can see more of this after the trade deadline
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 27, 2023 19:30:55 GMT -5
Wow... this is becoming the prospect show me season... I can see more of this after the trade deadline These are the types of seasons to do just that. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 27, 2023 19:49:28 GMT -5
I had that injury when I was in my teens or early 20's. Popped out, pushed it in and it was low level annoying for MONTHS. Funny thing is a few days ago I woke up with pain in that shoulder. It's easing away but now that this come up, I wonder if it's related. I'll have to ask my wife-doctor....and get the all around "you're getting older, sh1t happens". |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 28, 2023 10:27:40 GMT -5
Sounds like Eddy is out and is D2D. I guess that is why Beck is up as they are down to 6D and 11F before the call up. Hope he stays healthy as he is likely one of HuGo’s possible trade chips.
Monahan skipped practice yesterday. Hopefully it is just precautionary as they head towards the ASG break as he absolutely has to come back healthy and able to pick up where he left off.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2023 13:13:11 GMT -5
I had that injury when I was in my teens or early 20's. Popped out, pushed it in and it was low level annoying for MONTHS. Funny thing is a few days ago I woke up with pain in that shoulder. It's easing away but now that this come up, I wonder if it's related. I'll have to ask my wife-doctor....and get the all around "you're getting older, sh1t happens". ColeCranky |
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Post by habsask on Jan 28, 2023 13:14:51 GMT -5
I had that injury when I was in my teens or early 20's. Popped out, pushed it in and it was low level annoying for MONTHS. Funny thing is a few days ago I woke up with pain in that shoulder. It's easing away but now that this come up, I wonder if it's related. I'll have to ask my wife-doctor....and get the all around "you're getting older, sh1t happens". Funny thing, I get the same answer from my wife-nurse....oh well. As we used to say "keep on truckin'"....geez, that was a looong time ago. Cheers |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 9, 2023 11:33:59 GMT -5
Ylönen and Belzile called back up on an emergency basis. Guess that means none of the injured forwards are ready to return yet. So much for those guys expected back by the all star break.
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Post by folatre on Feb 9, 2023 12:52:06 GMT -5
Hopefully Ylonen can start to get more touches on the puck. He was invisible the last handful of games he played for the Habs.
Well, it is unfortunate about Monahan. But, in a way, it is a good reminder that he is injury prone (problems in the hip can flare up again thanks to other lower body injuries impact a skater's stride). So, in the end, whatever return Hughes gets for him is what it is. The silver lining could be that management is no longer interested in negotiations about an extension, unless of course the player wanted to sign on a very team-friendly deal with respect to term and AAV.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 9, 2023 15:31:51 GMT -5
Some more updates. Good that Monahan and Eddy are back skating. Hopefully Monahan can get back in action with enough runway before the trade deadline.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 9, 2023 15:35:19 GMT -5
Hopefully Ylonen can start to get more touches on the puck. He was invisible the last handful of games he played for the Habs. Ylönen looked good at the start of his call up and just had a good last game with Laval (1g 2a). He does need to get more consistent to stick with the Habs though. He could use a little of whatever RHP drinks before a game, because that guy makes up for lack of size and speed with a never quit attitude and a willingness to go to the dirty areas. Very valuable attributes. |
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