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Post by seventeen on May 13, 2023 12:15:35 GMT -5
I have to disagree. Gudas' infraction with Jarnkrok didn't rise to the level of a penalty IMO. I am more concerned with the number of players I've seen taken out of games with cheap shots. Kolesar last night, was tossed for driving Ekholm into the boards from behind. Add that to Cernak , Teravainen and Pevelski in round 1. It almost seems like a strategy. Just imagine if...Kolesar was suspended for 40 games and Vegas lost their draft picks this coming draft for doing something like that, or for what Gudas has tried to do for Florida. Do you think it might stop? Also, I have to disagree with your disagreement  . A goal directly resulted from Gudas deliberately (and you can see it as he approaches the defenseman, he had no intention of just blocking the goalie's vision, he was taking that guy out of the play so Cousins wouldn't have to deal with stick check. Obvious interference). Now...if you want to discuss the officiating standards, that's another matter, but when someone cheats to make it easier to score a goal, that should be punished. Unlike a dumb puck over the glass. |
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Post by seventeen on May 13, 2023 12:22:24 GMT -5
I recall pointing out years ago, how often Mr. Matthews' teams failed in the playoffs and suggesting it might be a good idea for TO to trade him. It goes right back to his year in the Swiss league. A dominating first place team gets bounced in the first round. Weird year there. Guy Boucher pulls a rabbit out and his 8th place (or 9th place) team wins it all. but I digress. At that point I thought Matthews was a Jonah and that the Leafs should jettison him ASAP. What they could have gotten for him!
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Post by CentreHice on May 13, 2023 13:07:12 GMT -5
Jarnkrok had grabbed Gudas's stick for a brief second before that...but this replay is clear that "holding the stick" was missed.
I think a d-man would've played Gudas differently, but Liljegren had joined the rush..and knocked down teammate O'Reilly...leaving forward Jarnkrok back with Holl. Not the best blue line duo in do-or-die OT.
And how about that Gudas snow shower on Woll...
Oh well...digging out of an 0-3 pit..only a matter of time.
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Post by Skilly on May 13, 2023 18:11:18 GMT -5
Facing elimination...Devils puck-over-the-glass in OT. HATE that rule! Worst rule in hockey. It's simple, and it's simple minded. I personally think it is the best rule in hockey. And the one called the most fair. It’s simple, it makes total sense, and it is black and white with no grey what so ever When you realize the alternative is simply for players to fire the puck over the glass to relieve pressure with no repercussions. Well that’s terrible. Plus there is also the liability issue Yes yes yes, but this instance and that instance should not be penalized the same . YES IT SHOULD. As we can clearly see this year, you can’t give refs any subjectivity when calling penalties … that’s when it looks mickey mouse |
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Post by CentreHice on May 13, 2023 18:47:14 GMT -5
Good points, Skilly.
Like "too-many-men"...and the fragile stick break called "slashing"....pretty much automatics and are called no matter the time/situation/score.
And I get the crowd injury factor if it's removed. We can't have these heavy shooters haphazardly clearing pucks into the crowd.
My "hatred" of the rule lies in the context of the refs blatantly "letting them play" at crucial times. Discretionary game management. And while all that is being "allowed"...that automatic call seems like an insult. A player can have his hands hooked with no call, then lift it into the crowd. He goes off for 2:00, while Captain Hook escapes, perhaps to score the PP goal.
It's not about to change...good discussion.
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Post by Skilly on May 13, 2023 21:58:22 GMT -5
Good points, Skilly. Like "too-many-men"...and the fragile stick break called "slashing"....pretty much automatics and are called no matter the time/situation/score. And I get the crowd injury factor if it's removed. We can't have these heavy shooters haphazardly clearing pucks into the crowd. My "hatred" of the rule lies in the context of the refs blatantly "letting them play" at crucial times. Discretionary game management. And while all that is being "allowed"...that automatic call seems like an insult. A player can have his hands hooked with no call, then lift it into the crowd. He goes off for 2:00, while Captain Hook escapes, perhaps to score the PP goal. It's not about to change...good discussion. But that not about the over the glass penalty. That's more about the subjectivity of the other calls And that's my point. You start putting subjectivity into the over the glass and you'll find the grey area grow wat too big. The refs will have to judge intent, so you'll find us all complain about a guy 1 foot inside the blueline who slaps it down the ice over the glass behind the goalie not get a penalty even though he intended it, and a guy baseball swinging it over the glass not intending it and getting called .... ... the solution in my opinion, is remove the subjectivity everywhere possible. The NHL wants game management, they can't game manage automatic calls |
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Post by CentreHice on May 13, 2023 22:13:22 GMT -5
I never mentioned adding subjectivity to the over-the-glass call.
I'm with you on removing as much subjectivity as possible from the other calls...no matter the circumstances.
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Post by Skilly on May 14, 2023 10:31:49 GMT -5
I never mentioned adding subjectivity to the over-the-glass call. I'm with you on removing as much subjectivity as possible from the other calls...no matter the circumstances. I was referring to you saying your hatred of the rule is based on letting them play for other penalties. That’s an issue with the game management of the other calls and shouldn’t create “hatred” for an automatic situation Sorry for the confusion |
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Post by CentreHice on May 14, 2023 12:04:19 GMT -5
I never mentioned adding subjectivity to the over-the-glass call. I'm with you on removing as much subjectivity as possible from the other calls...no matter the circumstances. I was referring to you saying your hatred of the rule is based on letting them play for other penalties. That’s an issue with the game management of the other calls and shouldn’t create “hatred” for an automatic situation Sorry for the confusion No worries...thanks for understanding my clarification. Speaking of "sorry"  My apologies for the bland Playoff Prediction thread. I wish I knew how to construct the colourful tables and graphs you've contributed over the years. As with Dis's GDTs, they are well-received and appreciated! |
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Post by seventeen on May 14, 2023 12:55:27 GMT -5
Amen. Good stuff there, Skilly.
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Post by folatre on May 14, 2023 21:30:45 GMT -5
Wild start in Edmonton, Oilers 2-1 over Vegas after three minutes.
Skinner looking scared is not a good thing, but a team like Edmonton that has been very underwhelming 5v5 getting two even strength goals is notable.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 14, 2023 22:23:10 GMT -5
Should of gone back to Campbell after they went down 2-1 in the series.
Stubborn coach...
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Post by frozone on May 14, 2023 22:24:25 GMT -5
Worst rule in hockey. It's simple, and it's simple minded. I personally think it is the best rule in hockey. And the one called the most fair. It’s simple, it makes total sense, and it is black and white with no grey what so ever When you realize the alternative is simply for players to fire the puck over the glass to relieve pressure with no repercussions. Well that’s terrible. Plus there is also the liability issue Yes yes yes, but this instance and that instance should not be penalized the same . YES IT SHOULD. As we can clearly see this year, you can’t give refs any subjectivity when calling penalties … that’s when it looks mickey mouse I'll give you that - the over-the-glass rule is called fairly and it certainly is black and white. But the rule still stinks imo. I just don't think that you need a 2-minute penalty to dissuade players from intentionally playing the puck over the glass. And especially now that we see just how often this occurrence happens accidentally... why such a harsh punishment? It would be like dishing out a minor penalty for every icing. I think something closer to the icing rule would be better. The offending team has to remain on the ice. Don't even let them call a timeout if you want. You could even give the other team the opportunity to choose which side they want their faceoff. You could ramp up the punishment every additional time that a team plays the puck over the glass. The possibilities are endless! |
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Post by seventeen on May 14, 2023 22:33:44 GMT -5
Should of gone back to Campbell after they went down 2-1 in the series. Stubborn coach... Yeah. Old School. Always go with the guy that brung ya. I'm not sold on that. If the original guy you thought was going to carry you comes in and plays well, maybe he's fixed whatever was wrong with him and you should play him. |
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Post by seventeen on May 14, 2023 22:35:43 GMT -5
I personally think it is the best rule in hockey. And the one called the most fair. It’s simple, it makes total sense, and it is black and white with no grey what so ever When you realize the alternative is simply for players to fire the puck over the glass to relieve pressure with no repercussions. Well that’s terrible. Plus there is also the liability issue Yes yes yes, but this instance and that instance should not be penalized the same . YES IT SHOULD. As we can clearly see this year, you can’t give refs any subjectivity when calling penalties … that’s when it looks mickey mouse I'll give you that - the over-the-glass rule is called fairly and it certainly is black and white. But the rule still stinks imo. I just don't think that you need a 2-minute penalty to dissuade players from intentionally playing the puck over the glass. And especially now that we see just how often this occurrence happens accidentally... why such a harsh punishment? It would be like dishing out a minor penalty for every icing. I think something closer to the icing rule would be better. The offending team has to remain on the ice. Don't even let them call a timeout if you want. You could even give the other team the opportunity to choose which side they want their faceoff. You could ramp up the punishment every additional time that a team plays the puck over the glass. The possibilities are endless! Good ideas frozone. Because of that, there is no chance in hell Bettman would ever implement them. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 14, 2023 22:43:55 GMT -5
Should of gone back to Campbell after they went down 2-1 in the series. Stubborn coach... Yeah. Old School. Always go with the guy that brung ya. I'm not sold on that. If the original guy you thought was going to carry you comes in and plays well, maybe he's fixed whatever was wrong with him and you should play him. Skinner has a GAA of 3.44 and .890 sv%.ranking him 20th in the playoffs. Campbell in relief: 1.19 and .957 sv% in 3 games. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 14, 2023 22:45:19 GMT -5
And he has now let in 4 in 2 periods....
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Post by jkr on May 15, 2023 4:13:49 GMT -5
I don't know what Woodcroft was thinking. Did he have so little confidence in Campbell. Someone as awful as Skinner was , who had already been pulled twice in series, should not have been anywhere near the net.
So now the Oilers are gone.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 15, 2023 5:43:58 GMT -5
I don't know what Woodcroft was thinking. Did he have so little confidence in Campbell. Someone as awful as Skinner was , who had already been pulled twice in series, should not have been anywhere near the net. So now the Oilers are gone. Leaf fans will be happy |
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Post by jkr on May 15, 2023 9:49:11 GMT -5
Both teams go out with rookies in goal & veterans on the bench. The difference was Woll was good & Skinner was awful.
The Oilers big guns were scoring but they were playing from behind too often
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Post by Skilly on May 15, 2023 10:13:16 GMT -5
I personally think it is the best rule in hockey. And the one called the most fair. It’s simple, it makes total sense, and it is black and white with no grey what so ever When you realize the alternative is simply for players to fire the puck over the glass to relieve pressure with no repercussions. Well that’s terrible. Plus there is also the liability issue Yes yes yes, but this instance and that instance should not be penalized the same . YES IT SHOULD. As we can clearly see this year, you can’t give refs any subjectivity when calling penalties … that’s when it looks mickey mouse I'll give you that - the over-the-glass rule is called fairly and it certainly is black and white. But the rule still stinks imo. I just don't think that you need a 2-minute penalty to dissuade players from intentionally playing the puck over the glass. And especially now that we see just how often this occurrence happens accidentally... why such a harsh punishment? It would be like dishing out a minor penalty for every icing. I think something closer to the icing rule would be better. The offending team has to remain on the ice. Don't even let them call a timeout if you want. You could even give the other team the opportunity to choose which side they want their faceoff. You could ramp up the punishment every additional time that a team plays the puck over the glass. The possibilities are endless! And I don’t think that’s harsh enough for intentionally doing it to relieve pressure. That’s what icing is for. If the team doesn’t want the penalty then ice the puck. Don’t put it over the glass. I don’t get the accidental arguement. You don’t see it with most other penalties … if you accidentally high stick someone and draw blood. It’s 4 mins. I’d also re-write the icing rule. Upon icing the puck will be dropped in 30 secs. If the offending team is not ready or sends out the wrong players for the ensuing face-off they get a minor penalty |
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Post by seventeen on May 15, 2023 10:49:35 GMT -5
Both teams go out with rookies in goal & veterans on the bench. The difference was Woll was good & Skinner was awful. The Oilers big guns were scoring but they were playing from behind too often That decision is going to haunt Woodcroft and Oiler fans for quite a while. After Campbell had that good game in relief, I can understand sticking with Skinner, because he has helped get them there, and he had a good save percentage (.962) on May 10th, but then he got pulled again on the 12th, with an .818 save percentage while Campbell, in relief, gave up nothing on 9 shots. Tough call, but Campbell had 2 good outings in a row, so I would have thought long and hard about who to start. I didn't see last night's game (among many I didn't watch) but often you can tell early if a goalie is on or not. What a nutty year. How does Aidin Hill, who will never even darken the halls of the AHL Hall of Fame, pull off a .950 save percentage in a key game? All these backup goalies screwing the Canadian teams. The gods must just hate Canada for some reason. Can't help thinking Vegas' goalie situation is going to bite them in the butt at some point. I wonder how Oettinger is going to do today? I had a Twitter debate with a Dallas fan last year about Oettinger. His stance was that Oettinger was the next BIG one and my stance was that he had shown himself to be a slightly above average goalie most of the time, with a scintillating playoff stretch of 7 games or so. I couldn't convince the guy that we needed more time to figure out exactly how good Oettinger can be. Right now he's being badly outplayed by a guy from Rosenheim. Hmm...good title for a movie, like The Man from La Mancha. The Guy from Rosenheim, starring Philipp Grubauer. I digress as I get distracted easily. Anyway, I think Oettinger can be a very good goalie, but hasn't proven it yet. |
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Post by jkr on May 18, 2023 20:32:15 GMT -5
I was wrong about those Marner Skip the Dishes ads. They're still on.😀
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Post by jkr on May 18, 2023 20:35:07 GMT -5
Barkov with a nice snipe to tie it at 1-1. Only his 3rd of the playoffs.
Verhaeghe with a wrister from the circle. Two goals in the last 5 minutes if the period, 2 assists for Duclair.
2-1 Panthers after 2.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 18, 2023 21:52:19 GMT -5
Going to OT
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Post by jkr on May 18, 2023 22:14:48 GMT -5
FLA goal called back on what I thought was marginal contact.
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Post by jkr on May 18, 2023 22:15:40 GMT -5
Tkachuk hadn't scored in 6 games & not looking dangerous tonight.
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Post by PTH on May 19, 2023 1:22:10 GMT -5
Yay!
I am rooting for Florida... in part because I don't want to see KK do well, in part because I figure if Florida goes deep or even wins it all, they will run into more cap issues and maybe stumble..
Which might help with our 2025 pick.
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Post by jkr on May 19, 2023 6:04:49 GMT -5
Tkachuk hadn't scored in 6 games & not looking dangerous tonight. Tkachuk scores the winner with just 12 seconds left in the 4th OT. Hid 2nd ot winner of these playoffs. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 19, 2023 8:54:55 GMT -5
So much for my Canes in 4, "Bob will pop" prediction. He's gotta be in the Smythe conversation now. |
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. A goal directly resulted from Gudas deliberately (and you can see it as he approaches the defenseman, he had no intention of just blocking the goalie's vision, he was taking that guy out of the play so Cousins wouldn't have to deal with stick check. Obvious interference). Now...if you want to discuss the officiating standards, that's another matter, but when someone cheats to make it easier to score a goal, that should be punished. Unlike a dumb puck over the glass. 
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